If the Rolls was 30k no one would care about it. Pricing is almost the biggest part of the brand. Its a fake premium
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Free registration at the forum removes this block.Okay.. so go start a car company. Go trying to sell a 30K quality car for 500K.. i bet you 100,000 you don’t even sell oneIf the Rolls was 30k no one would care about it. Pricing is almost the biggest part of the brand. Its a fake premium
Articulate points of why a 700k purchase is superior to some 5 digit dinky Japanese car. (No I haven't watched a video from a paid affiliate marketer)
You tend to see this a lot from the luxury / premium sector (more-so luxury) -- people tend to buy a "better version of themselves", and their "investment" into the underlying product is essentially an investment into their own psyche etc.
This is a subjective opinion. Is all luxury subjective? If you don't like something, does that mean it's automatically not luxury?That one isn’t worth it, imo. The exterior/interior colors are ugly.
The lowest model of any car is often a stick-shift, since it's the cheapest transmission option to put in a car. Why are some stick shifts luxury while others aren't? Where do you draw the line?The first criteria I look for in a drivers’ car is: “Is it available in Stick Shift”
I think you may have completely missed it in here. We're not going to be able to justify the $700k price tag because that's the whole point of luxury. The utility of the good does NOT justify the price. Further, I think it's safe to say that you're not Rolls Royce's target consumer. You, personally, don't value that brand, which is fine.Back to discussing luxury strategy...
Very well said. To piggyback, there's been a lot of arguments in favor of luxury brands that are focusing on what features make it better than the "economy version" so to speak. But it was established very early on that more features and more utility do not define luxury. That's what defines "Premium."This is a weird thread.
It started with a discussion of luxury strategies, and there are amazing posts randomly in the middle, but the majority is "my taste in cars/watches/purses is better than yours, so that makes my brand luxury." Then it turned into "why would I pay that much for something, where's the utility?" I doubt utility is the main driver for a luxury purchase.
I'd like to see more objective analysis of what makes luxury. If a Rolls Royce is luxury and a Hyundai isn't - why? What if you find the Hyundai seats more comfortable, the car more responsive, and the handling to your liking - is it now a luxury? Or does it need a V12 in to be considered luxury? If it needs the V12, would a V8 be ok? Where's the line?
Does it need hand-sewn seats to be luxury? If so, why? You can get better precision with machinery than with humans.
Does it need a hand-made grille to be luxury? Why?
We've spent decades creating machines to do a better job than we can do as humans. Why, all of a sudden now, do we value things created by hand more than those by machine?
This is a subjective opinion. Is all luxury subjective? If you don't like something, does that mean it's automatically not luxury?
The lowest model of any car is often a stick-shift, since it's the cheapest transmission option to put in a car. Why are some stick shifts luxury while others aren't? Where do you draw the line?
It seems as though this thread started as a luxury discussion, and then devolved into a thread on individual's tastes. Just because you don't like something doesn't mean it isn't a luxury product. Conversely, just because you think something is the best, doesn't make it luxury.
The real question is, what is a luxury that doesn't exist yet but will?
Cars, watches, bags, jewelry, now high-end smart phones. What's the next big one?
It terms of timeline and history, do luxury brands come before more affordable products? Do luxury versions inspire cheap copycats, or do normal products inspire designers to create luxury versions? I think the latter, in which case, there is more predictability as to what the next luxury markets may be.
The real question is, what is a luxury that doesn't exist yet but will?
Cars, watches, bags, jewelry, now high-end smart phones. What's the next big one?
Ahhhhhhh, but what happens when you make a high quality luxury product affordable to allFor some, the high price tag is a positive. The fact that only the elite can afford it is part of what makes it valuable. It's a luxury good in the economic sense of the word. If RR offered the Phantom for $35k, the same people who would have paid $600k for it won't even consider it at $35k.
I would say yes. I find that the originator tends to make a luxury product.It terms of timeline and history, do luxury brands come before more affordable products? Do luxury versions inspire cheap copycats, or do normal products inspire designers to create luxury versions? I think the latter, in which case, there is more predictability as to what the next luxury markets may be.
I understand that. I'm curious if opinion should play a role in whether or not something is luxury, or is there an objective way.
I think that’s a hard question. I do think there are objective elements. Like you know the way that people say that “Beauty is subjective?” Well that’s only partly true. Like for example men find a Waste-to-Hip ratio of 0.7 to be most attractive as it denotes fertility. Men find fertile women most attractive.I understand that. I'm curious if opinion should play a role in whether or not something is luxury, or is there an objective way.
Just wanted to highlight this.
BRILLIANT BRILLIANT BRILLIANT.
You should charge money for your posts.
That realization shifted my whole focus; forgive my clumsy meandering here; but I look at it like: First we seek to satisfy basic needs, then we seek to enhance the utility value of what we have (4gigs of ram to 32 gigs of ram) etc, then the game becomes -- how do I translate/imbued the very essence of my soul into this space, this home, this car, this dish, this item of clothing, this social experience -- such that when someone takes one look at what I've left behind (and how I've arranged it), they'll say, "David was here"
David's my name btw. LOL in case anyone is confused.
Thanks for the kind words & rep --
Yep, that's a great way to put it. If not familiar, you've described the hierarchy of human needs.
The big point I wanted to emphasize was that whilst it's relatively simple to observe how it all works, designing, manufacturing & marketing a product/service/solution which fits the premium/luxury criteria is difficult; not just from the exacting standards demanded - but from the fact that it's an "inclusive" process (as I mentioned before) -- "luxury" isn't about products, it's about process & people.
A good example would be a fat personal trainer, or I guess a broke college professor trying to teach you about business - why would you listen to someone who doesn't follow their own advice? Maybe their advice isn't worth listening to... but NOT useless.
This is the mistake most people make. They're simply the messenger. They have no achievements of their own. They don't push you very far up the social totem pole because they haven't gone there themselves.
It's the same with premium/luxury - you can't charge a high price for something which is either lacking in quality, insight, innovation, social precedent or inspiration. Its value has to come from somewhere (even if that value is subjective).
In the case of luxury, the value is much deeper than "it's a better product", or "it's got history/pedigree". It needs resonance (step 4) - the idea that your highest creative ideal matches a community's.
And what's REALLY interesting is that the greatest brands went against the grain. They did things so "proudly different" ;-) that they started to attract people by virtue of the quality of what they were doing. This quality acted as their differentiator - hence the modern trend of identifying "luxury" towards uncompromising quality (which is true but IMO only a symptom of a deeper ideal).
The simple truth, though, is that luxury doesn't need opulence... it's more about reverence. Think of the Shroud of Turin. If that thing did in fact grace the mortal remains of Christ... would you not argue that owning it would certainly be a "luxury" experience? The cloth itself is neither clean nor high quality. In fact - if it's real - it had a dead person in it. It's got blood stains on it. So what makes it worth so much?
The best example I can think of with this is Alexander's breastplate - stolen from his tomb by the emperor Caligula. Lost to history, the breastplate itself would have never made "little boots" the new Alexander... but the implication was that it would at "empower" him to perform feats as ambitious as the great man. What's interesting is Alexander - who wanted to be the "new Achilles" - ALSO followed this process - stealing Achilles' shield (or some say his spear) from Troy shortly after his crossing of the Hellespont.
The breastplate is the quintessential luxury item. It means very little on its own (negligible functional value)... but because it was used by Alexander himself (who was near deified in the centuries between his death and the onset of Christianity), it held special reverence in the hearts of most of the Roman emperors.
Indeed, Julius Caesar himself was said to have broken down & wept at the feet of a statue of Alexander during his Quaestorship in further Hispania, inspiring him to pursue the path he did. In Plutarch's Parallel Lives, Caesar is compared (favorably) to Alexander. Who does that? Why?? What's the reason for that to happen?
The same can be said about many of the greats of antiquity. Mont Blanc have diamond-encrusted Hannibal pens, there's an Alexander the Great watch for sale for $700k+ and tons of other stuff. Buying those products does NOTHING for you on a material level (apart from raising a few eyebrows) -- the key is that it gives YOU the sense of purpose, mission and belief that you can achieve what you truly want.
The point many miss is that when you say "luxury", they think of "reclining seats", "the best leather", "hand crafted" and all the trappings of material wealth. That's all good, but can be attributed to premium, too (such is the case with Filippo Loreti mentioned prior). "Hand-crafted" (in my opinion) - whilst a great way to differentiate in the modern age - is typically an homage to the processes of old... where the women of Lesbos worked feverishly with their purple dye (for example).
There's something sitting at the "core" of "luxury" which I don't think anyone has covered. This is why I wrote those other posts... if you can make a book $30,000 - what sits behind that?
The higher up the social hierarchy you go - as you pointed out - the goal / purpose changes. People identify their mortality. They want to make a mark on the world, and want to use products, ideas, inspiration and tools to do it.
This is where many of the world's "luxury" brands started out - over time, as their core "utility" was adopted by more & more people, they developed manufacturing processes etc and elevated their brand higher - typically - through the use of social partnerships (Louis Vuitton started out as the royal luggage manufacturer for Empress Eugénie de Montijo (wife of Napoleon III); Christian Louboutin had his break designing for the Moulin rouge -- could be wrong on that one but 99.9% sure he had something to do with it).
--
Telling - the stuff I posted about women / femininity before ...
They don't care... they want to indulge in social intrigues and all that other crap. Women are in NO way as materialistic as men - at least in the same way. They treat materialism (whilst obviously they'll buy shoes etc) as a means to enhance their SOCIAL experiences. Men buy things (primarily) to enhance their reputation etc. Whereas you just whisper the name "Hannibal", "Caesar" or "Alexander" to many of the world's CEO's - you'll get an instant reaction of reverence, most women simply wouldn't care. I often tear up when thinking about Milteades' feat at the battle of Marathon.
- How many women would want a Hannibal pen?
- How many would want Alexander's breastplate?
Thus, you have to ask yourself...
If it's the case that women would not want a diamond-encrusted Hannibal pen, is it luxury? Does it really stand at that pinnacle of desire that most people would associate with the term?
Likewise with a Birkin bag from Hermes.
It can be hand crafted out of the skin of the aliens that landed at Roswell - would I give a damn? Nope. Thus, could you really consider it a "luxury" item (to me)? Premium, certainly... but luxury?
This raises the biggest point of all.
Maybe luxury has nothing to do with the "thing" itself. As @ChrisV mentioned - it's about how it makes someone feel. But... maybe it goes deeper.... perhaps luxury is about what it pushes someone to do... to behave... to BE.
At the core of ALL reverence lies something that was achieved beyond the capacities of other men. This is why the likes of Elon Musk holds so much reverence in the business world. If he wasn't there, would Tesla be a viable proposition? Nope. Likewise with Jobs, Gates and the swathe of other "luminaries" of the modern world.
Rather than looking outward at what constitutes a luxury "product", why not look inward at where the "idea" of luxury comes from. Why not consider the weight of what products, tools and ideas bring forward? The Holy Grail wouldn't have diamonds and jewels on it. It's the "cup of a carpenter"... yet it's been one of the most sought-after relics in history. It's definitely a "luxury" product... yet would not have ANYWHERE near the level of craftsmanship that the latest Swarovski crystals may have.
Luxury isn't helping people "lose weight" or "get from A to B"... it's about giving them the keys to a better life. A beautiful life. A life full of youthful energy, eloquence, sophistication, intellectualism and inspiration.
How YOU deliver that determines your luxury. The price people are willing to pay (remember, people want to pay luxury prices because they believe the products are going to elevate their lives THAT much more than the other stuff) - is determined by how much weight / reverence / gravitas your solutions brings to the market. This can't be faked.
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