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The Big Dating Apps Are Alienating Their Stakeholders

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thechosen1

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Surely there is a market for another dating app that doesn’t milk users for every single match and connection they make... this sounds like a great opportunity. You don’t even need to be as big as Tinder. I know Bumble came onto the scene, and now there is one called Hinge I keep hearing about from friends.
I haven’t used an app like this in almost 3 years because I finally found the right girl :)
So I’m a bit out of the loop. But is Hinge good? It seems more PG-rated than Tinder. And we can see Tinder is owned by a big public company trying to meet earnings expectations - often a sign of the end for a company, or at least destroying value provided to users by over monetizing them.

Good opportunity for a small Tinder alternative.
 

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active employ

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there's hundreds of bots and the bot makers pump them out in batches of 300. I've seen some of the tinder bot making scripts, they bulk create accounts. In my case you "run out of people in area" and as soon as that happens every third person is a bot. Usually if you match with them they try to send you to a phishing site.
 

Nucleatum

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Surely there is a market for another dating app that doesn’t milk users for every single match and connection they make... this sounds like a great opportunity. You don’t even need to be as big as Tinder. I know Bumble came onto the scene, and now there is one called Hinge I keep hearing about from friends.
I haven’t used an app like this in almost 3 years because I finally found the right girl :)
So I’m a bit out of the loop. But is Hinge good? It seems more PG-rated than Tinder. And we can see Tinder is owned by a big public company trying to meet earnings expectations - often a sign of the end for a company, or at least destroying value provided to users by over monetizing them.

Good opportunity for a small Tinder alternative.
29 year old guy here. Have used Tinder, bumble, happn, and hinge over the years.

Tinder is dead, for all the reasons already mentioned.

Happn never really took off

Bumble is alright, but is moving the same way as bumble

Hinge is the only good dating app remaining-on the surface it focuses more on fostering actual connection than the others. Also incredibly responsive to 'reporting' only fans hoes. Have met many nice, normal, high quality women through it.

However, that leaves the one-night stand 'hookup' market open for a new app.
 

ExaltedLife

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Men: Tinder sucks. Not enough girls on there that like me. I gotta pay just to be seen by anyone.
Girls: Tinder sucks. Not enough high quality guys. Just a bunch of creeps and it's annoying to filter through them all.

The issue is the underlying reality of the sexual marketplace
A guy on my Facebook feed was complaining how his Tinder Gold account of 4 years was banned. They gave him no reason and no appeal. Imagine paying hundreds of dollars to get a big middle finger...

About 15 other guys and even a few women chimed in with similar tales, and others talked about suddenly going from a steady stream of matches and likes to like 1 a week.

This caused me to be slightly curious and look at the reviews for Tinder on Apple's App store. Boy does it look like a treasure trove of frustrated customers looking to jump ship. They all seem to perceive it as having shifted its model to milking them for as much as it can get. There's apparently a feature where users have to pay $39 for a single "Super Boost" for 3 hours. Its even more $ if they want a longer one.

Other users complain about mostly matching with bots and women promoting their onlyFans account. Sounds like an epic shitshow that is out of control and either fueled by arrogance or being bloated. Maybe they are over-squeezing the towel.

Any of you software guys who want to create an app might do some further digging.

Edit: Looks like they are owned by "Match Group" which went public in 2015.

Dating apps are a stupid business model in general, thats why none of them have a high customer satisfaction rate.

The real market to serve is the guys who don't know how to meet/approach women. The PUA guys arr kinda sleezy about it but some of them are ok. Really though its just belief systems that need to change.

For me, my game on a dating app is like a C+ simply because i cant be bothered to put in the time to take good selfies. But in person my game is A+. Every good relationship I've had started with me approaching a woman in public on my own because I was attracted to her.

There's an entire world of men who are lacking the confidence to this one simple thing, and that's why there are so many options for guys who have it.

Maybe Ill write an ebook on this lol
 

thechosen1

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Dating apps are a stupid business model in general, thats why none of them have a high customer satisfaction rate.

The real market to serve is the guys who don't know how to meet/approach women. The PUA guys arr kinda sleezy about it but some of them are ok. Really though its just belief systems that need to change.

For me, my game on a dating app is like a C+ simply because i cant be bothered to put in the time to take good selfies. But in person my game is A+. Every good relationship I've had started with me approaching a woman in public on my own because I was attracted to her.

There's an entire world of men who are lacking the confidence to this one simple thing, and that's why there are so many options for guys who have it.

Maybe Ill write an ebook on this lol
You might laugh at me for saying this but I think Dr. Jordan Peterson has already filled this niche. His advice, philosophy and psychology are far more beneficial than any pick up artist nonsense ever will be.
If you want to foster true connection with another real person, then following through with his ideas about being the best version of yourself are really all you need.
Honesty and responsibility are the ultimate traits for finding and maintaining quality relationships.
 

Primeperiwinkle

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You might laugh at me for saying this but I think Dr. Jordan Peterson has already filled this niche. His advice, philosophy and psychology are far more beneficial than any pick up artist nonsense ever will be.
If you want to foster true connection with another real person, then following through with his ideas about being the best version of yourself are really all you need.
Honesty and responsibility are the ultimate traits for finding and maintaining quality relationships.
Out of curiosity.. why do you think more men aren’t following his advice? Do they just not know about him or do they listen and not follow through or what?
 

Timmy C

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A guy on my Facebook feed was complaining how his Tinder Gold account of 4 years was banned. They gave him no reason and no appeal. Imagine paying hundreds of dollars to get a big middle finger...

About 15 other guys and even a few women chimed in with similar tales, and others talked about suddenly going from a steady stream of matches and likes to like 1 a week.

This caused me to be slightly curious and look at the reviews for Tinder on Apple's App store. Boy does it look like a treasure trove of frustrated customers looking to jump ship. They all seem to perceive it as having shifted its model to milking them for as much as it can get. There's apparently a feature where users have to pay $39 for a single "Super Boost" for 3 hours. Its even more $ if they want a longer one.

Other users complain about mostly matching with bots and women promoting their onlyFans account. Sounds like an epic shitshow that is out of control and either fueled by arrogance or being bloated. Maybe they are over-squeezing the towel.

Any of you software guys who want to create an app might do some further digging.

Edit: Looks like they are owned by "Match Group" which went public in 2015.
I can tell you there is a need for this. From the guy side it is unusable.
 

thechosen1

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Out of curiosity.. why do you think more men aren’t following his advice? Do they just not know about him or do they listen and not follow through or what?
I think for one thing his book and lectures aren’t branded as “dating advice,” so you wouldn’t go there for it. But you would benefit there from listening to what he has to say. To add to that, all of what he says is a bit hard to implement, it’s more of a philosophy and way of thinking, not actionable steps or a “how to” guide.

That being said, human relationships and life in general can’t be distilled to a simple list of steps.
 

Hadrian

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Dating apps are a stupid business model in general, thats why none of them have a high customer satisfaction rate.

The real market to serve is the guys who don't know how to meet/approach women. The PUA guys arr kinda sleezy about it but some of them are ok. Really though its just belief systems that need to change.

For me, my game on a dating app is like a C+ simply because i cant be bothered to put in the time to take good selfies. But in person my game is A+. Every good relationship I've had started with me approaching a woman in public on my own because I was attracted to her.

There's an entire world of men who are lacking the confidence to this one simple thing, and that's why there are so many options for guys who have it.

Maybe Ill write an ebook on this lol
Working on something for guys as we speak with one of the more respectable Guru's... just trying to find the balance in filtering out the sleazy side of PUA with the genuine side of becoming the most interesting guy in the room... (not a dating app thats too hard a nut to crack even though I've got a gem of an idea).
 

Johnny boy

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Dating apps are a stupid business model in general, thats why none of them have a high customer satisfaction rate.

The real market to serve is the guys who don't know how to meet/approach women. The PUA guys arr kinda sleezy about it but some of them are ok. Really though its just belief systems that need to change.

For me, my game on a dating app is like a C+ simply because i cant be bothered to put in the time to take good selfies. But in person my game is A+. Every good relationship I've had started with me approaching a woman in public on my own because I was attracted to her.

There's an entire world of men who are lacking the confidence to this one simple thing, and that's why there are so many options for guys who have it.

Maybe Ill write an ebook on this lol
What's "sleezy" to you is probably just the truth.
 

Simon Angel

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I don't see why any man with self-respect would want to use Tinder or anyother dating app. It's like putting 50 men in a room with one woman and they're all stepping over eachother trying to impress her. As the saying goes "beggars can't be choosers".

Someone said women go for a "sniper" approach while men go for a "shotgun" approach. Looks like I've been a sniper this whole time and last I checked I've got something loose between my legs. I don't understand going for quantity over quality in terms of women and I've never slept with one that did not excite me on every possible level - their physical attractiveness, personality, values, goals and also whether we'd be good in a relationship.

Sorry to offend some of you guys here but I'd never want to tell my kids "I met your mother on Tinder". I'm so glad Tinder use is basically 0 in my country.
 

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Saavedra

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I love the dating apps myself, but it's always a bit of a gamble you'll get catfished (unless you facetime or something). One app idea I had was to require users to include a 3-5 second video of themselves with sound. The userbase would dwindle as the bots and weirdos ran away, and the remainder would be overall higher quality.

deepfakes ftw
 

The-J

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I've never used Tinder (haven't been single in a long time). But to me it looks like the problem is two-fold:

1) People who are used to getting laid for free are pissed that Tinder is now making them pay for it
2) People who aren't getting laid try paying for it and still end up not getting laid

People getting banned from the platform is just icing on the shit sundae.

Sounds to me like the business model really isn't very sustainable and Tinder is trying their damndest to monetize their gigantic userbase, despite the fact that paying a company isn't going to get you laid (paying a girl might!) and that people who are used to getting laid for free are not going to want to pay for the privilege to get laid.
 

WillHurtDontCare

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Working on something for guys as we speak with one of the more respectable Guru's... just trying to find the balance in filtering out the sleazy side of PUA with the genuine side of becoming the most interesting guy in the room... (not a dating app thats too hard a nut to crack even though I've got a gem of an idea).

You can learn a lot about the history of politics, culture, technology, economics, philosophy, propaganda, and toxicology if you seriously investigate the conditions that led to the creation of PUA in the first place.

Men have been sleeping with women for the entirety of human history. Why do so many men not know how to? I'm not being rhetorical, I'm asking in good faith.

Technology has massively interfered with how people interact with one another (and this interference will only grow more extreme as technology develops). And one of its most import consequences is that it has allowed men to become so weak.

I'd heard someone say a while back that PUA's actual value is that it leads (without actually teaching) men to discover masculinity. Do you think that Caesar or Genghis Khan needed pick up lines?

Miscellaneous problems listed below. I might update this later. PUA only happened because of a sickness in society.

Obesity

1603379866117.png

Testosterone Decline:


Estrogeneration: How Estrogenics Are Making You Fat, Sick, and Infertile: Jay, Anthony G: 9781946546012: Amazon.com: Books
  • Our testosterone has declined due to a poisonous environment

Propaganda


Economics

1603381263900.png

source: Wage Stagnation in Nine Charts

TLDR
: Read Aristotle, not PUA
 
Last edited:

Hadrian

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You can learn a lot about the history of politics, culture, technology, economics, philosophy, propaganda, and toxicology if you seriously investigate the conditions that led to the creation of PUA in the first place.

Men have been sleeping with women for the entirety of human history. Why do so many men not know how to? I'm not being rhetorical, I'm asking in good faith.

Technology has massively interfered with how people interact with one another (and this interference will only grow more extreme as technology develops). And one of its most import consequences is that it has allowed men to become so weak.

I'd heard someone say a while back that PUA's actual value is that it leads (without actually teaching) men to discover masculinity. Do you think that Caesar or Genghis Khan needed pick up lines?

Miscellaneous problems listed below. I might update this later. PUA only happened because of a sickness in society.

Obesity

View attachment 35423

Testosterone Decline:


Estrogeneration: How Estrogenics Are Making You Fat, Sick, and Infertile: Jay, Anthony G: 9781946546012: Amazon.com: Books
  • Our testosterone has declined due to a poisonous environment

Propaganda


Economics

View attachment 35424

source: Wage Stagnation in Nine Charts

TLDR
: Read Aristotle, not PUA
Good Post with lots of useful data. I posted in the mens locker a balanced view of my experience in the PUA world and why guys get into it in the first place, but in summary it's a false economy at the end of the day, but I would still recommend it to anyone who is starting from zero as it is a gateway into masculinity (positive and toxic) and ultimately entrepreneurship.

If you dive under the bonnet and understand it correctly the PUA world is as much about pulling chicks as the Fastlane is about driving lambo's.... But neither are helped by all the fake gurus out there! :peace:
 
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WillHurtDontCare

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Good Post with lots of useful data. I posted in the mens locker a balanced view of my experience in the PUA world and why guys get into it in the first place, but in summary it's a false economy at the end of the day, but I would still recommend it to anyone who is starting from zero as it is a gateway into masculinity (positive and toxic) and ultimately entrepreneurship.

If you dive under the bonnet and understand it correctly the PUA world is as much about pulling chicks as the Fastlane is about driving lambo's.... But neither are helped by all the fake gurus out there!

The best "PUAs" are warlords, politicians or religious leaders (or all three!).


"A polygamist, Young had 55 wives."

The best PUA strategy is to build, or take, a community.

masculinity (positive and toxic)

Toxic masculinity is a propaganda slur created by people who make careers by pathologizing everything. Anyone who uses that term seriously should be totally ignored.
 

Hadrian

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The best "PUAs" are warlords, politicians or religious leaders (or all three!).
I know what you're trying to say there but its inaccurate as the whole psychology is reversed from what PUA does.

Toxic masculinity is a propaganda slur created by people who make careers by pathologizing everything. Anyone who uses that term seriously should be totally ignored.
No Toxic Masculinity is alive and well as can be seen from Captain Carnage himself Donald Trump all the way down the city suburban gangs devoid of proper male role models. I could recommend quite a few books on the topic.

In fact every statement appears to be missing the context entirely. And as this conversation does nothing to support this thread or present an opportunity for knowledge or growth, I will wish you well and bid you adieu.

:peace:
 

WillHurtDontCare

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No Toxic Masculinity is alive and well as can be seen from Captain Carnage himself Donald Trump

People at the heights of power have always been and will always be ruthless, egotistical bastards. This will never change, and the people who deny this will get steamrolled.

Human nature is brutal.

I could recommend quite a few books on the topic.

And those books would be garbage propaganda and anyone who takes them seriously will be worse off for it.
 

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Fox

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All dating apps suck cause Instagram is where all the real action is.

If you are a high level guy you can show you do actual cool things and live a cool lifestyle. If you are a girl you can do the same and give a much more realistic idea as to what you are actually like.

Both are superficial but at least on Instagram you got a lot of recent pics to choose from rather than 5 photoshopped pics from 8 years ago.

Tinder now sucks cause they know that anyone still left using their app is knowingly scraping the bottom of the dating barrel. Why try compete with instagram for free when they can just accept what they are and charge for everything.

Dating apps are most likely done forever and anyone still using them is just asking for stupid rules/prices/matches/bots.
 

WillHurtDontCare

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All dating apps suck cause Instagram is where all the real action is.

If you are a high level guy you can show you do actual cool things and live a cool lifestyle. If you are a girl you can do the same and give a much more realistic idea as to what you are actually like.

Both are superficial but at least on Instagram you got a lot of recent pics to choose from rather than 5 photoshopped pics from 8 years ago.

Tinder now sucks cause they know that anyone still left using their app is knowingly scraping the bottom of the dating barrel. Why try compete with instagram for free when they can just accept what they are and charge for everything.

Dating apps are most likely done forever and anyone still using them is just asking for stupid rules/prices/matches/bots.

@Fox you probably understand this better than a lot of people on this forum, but the most realistic way to consistently meet great women is to have a strong network of ambitious guy friends. Women will just naturally gravitate to them, even if they have zero online presence.

Digressing from dating, now is an incredible time to build communities. You can connect with like-minded people all over the planet online (through places like this forum!) and work on interesting projects in business, arts, technology, or whatever else suits your fancy.
 

luniac

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When I decided to actually put some kind of effort into my pics, I went into my backyard with proper daylight and took two pics with a timer, one showing off my abs and one dressed pretty nicely, and i actually got some decent matches out of it.

I checked my photos on photofeeler.com lol, the abs one got an 8.4, and the other one a 7.7.
If i took a bathroom selfie or something it would get under 6.0 for sure.

Pictures is everything with these dating apps, my profile itself is barebones, just saying im looking for a cool girl to chill with.

You can be a great looking guy but if your photos suck then it wont matter, or you can be kinda ugly but if you have incredible pictures youll get plenty of matches.

I only paid for a boost one time as a curiosity, so far its all been free, and im on all the dating apps, i just spent like 10 or so minutes a day doing my swipes.

A guy i know who KILLS IT on these apps(but does buy boosts every weekend) is a professional photographer and he took thousands of pics to get some worthy ones.

Also there's no such thing as "game", i literally just say to a match "hey youre sexy whatcha up to", "what do you like to do for fun", "Im in brooklyn, hbu", "You seem cool we should chill, im not looking for anything super serious, if youre up to it, send me your number, ill text you :)"

I don't waste time or play games, but i am not vulgar either lol

TLDR
ITS ALL ABOUT THE PICS, PERIOD.
 

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