The Beggar On The Street...

[TaxGuy]

With all the talk on charity I'm wondering what everyone's thoughts are when they see a homeless person begging on the street?

Personally I believe in charity, but I don't believe in begging. By this I mean I am all for donating to a cause, but it is only if I believe in it and feel that my contribution will be appreciated and put to good use. For these reasons I will soon join the group on Kiva and hopefully make my first contribution by Xmas time as it is not only a great cause, but it looks like it goes to good use and is greatly appreciated!

An example of what I would like to discuss is- I have a 1 block walk from the train station to the building I work in and everyday in this short distance I see 3 beggars and 1 Salvation Army bell-ringer, so far the only person I give to is the Salvation Army and there is one beggar in particular that I really question and almost want to just take a few minutes and talk to.

He is an older man who sits in a chair with a giant cross around his neck that is there everyday when I get to work and leave, making me think that he sits there all day(of course taking breaks to eat and use the bathroom wherever he does both), but what I wonder is-

What does he do with the money he collects?

1) Does he use it to help his predicament, possibly saving up to get some type of shelter or to move on to a new area?

2) Does he use it help others, possibly giving to others at a homeless shelter?

3) Does he use it to get by, just paying for his necessities of food and clothing?

4) Does he just use it selfishly and only for the things he is too lazy to work for himself, possibly drugs and booze?

Having an entrepreneurial mind and trying to see the good in people is why I have such questions, while most would just assume #4, I really want to think it is one of the top 3, possibly even #2 which I feel would be the most noble and best use of the donations given to him. As far as idea #1 I first thought of what I would do if I was in that situation which would be to either save up and try to get off the streets OR after seeing how content the homeless people in both Miami and Santa Monica were that it would be worth it to save up for a bus ticket there or somewhere else warm instead of sitting in the freezing cold Chicago Winter. Even if he did #3 I wouldn't have a problem as I don't know what happened in his life to get where he is now and if this is all he wants in life and gets what he needs good for him, as long as he doesn't just expect people to give him money and truly does appreciate every last cent that is given to him.

So with that, what are your thoughts?

 

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[Runum]

There are as many reasons for street begging as there are people that do it. Some do it out of misfortune and necessity. Some do it because it pays off and that's what they want to do. It's a tough call. I really like to contribute to help others but I want some questions answered first. That's the control freak in me. Getting all the answers requires too much time for most street contributions. So I usually give to causes rather than people. They can get all the questions answered and I can put my money where I think it does the most good.:cheers:

 

[SteveO]

I have a real soft spot for people that look to be in need. They are not too hard to spot.

 

[Allthingznew]

There are people who do it for a living, and make good money in some areas according to a tv show I saw once, and there are people who really need help and everything in between.

I choose to go with my gut. I don't want to give to scammers and I don't want to pass someone truly in need, so I go with my gut and try not to judge them. Sometimes the act of giving is for you, not just them.

 

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[GoldenEggs]

The only thing I give to beggars on the street is my lunch or leftovers if I am walking back from a restaurant. If one of them helps me to get a parking spot, I will give a dollar or two. Other than that, I usually donate to the church or a charity.

My husband and I have tried to help a couple of people who were down on their luck or wanted to turn their life around (not beggars though) but it was really frustrating/disappointing because they were not 100% committed to change. And I took it very personally as a failure. So, now I leave it to the "professionals".

 

[BryanC]

In most cases, I will not. I am 20 and most of the people who beg me are double my age. In my opinion it is pathetic. When I get asked for money in front of say 711 or something, I ask them what they can do for me. They usually go blank at that point.

 

[hatterasguy]

I prefer to donate to needy local families. When I was an agent our office would discretely help a local families in need. Everything from Thanksgiving dinner, Christmass presents for the kids, to home heating oil and gas cards. Since their is no overhead you get the biggest bang for your buck. Last Christmass I saw the little boy had a fishing pole on his list, since I'm a die hard fisherman I hooked him up. I'm sure he had a good Christmass morning, I built him a good tackle box.

Lots of local organisations like the Rotary Club do good charity work. I recomend joining since not only do you get to help out, you also get to make contacts. Must successful local professionals and business men are members.

As for the begging bums I ignore them, I don't help people who don't help themselves. I know an attorney who has a creative way of helping them. She buys their signs for $20. This way they are providing a product for her money, she has quite a collection.

 

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[Jonleehacker]

My husband and I have tried to help a couple of people who were down on their luck or wanted to turn their life around (not beggars though) but it was really frustrating/disappointing because they were not 100% committed to change. And I took it very personally as a failure. So, now I leave it to the "professionals".

There was an amazing episode of Oprah that I saw a while ago. In the show Oprah basically set it up so that a homeless guys "finds" $100,000. They also gave the guy every support imaginable to turn his life around (financial adviser, life coach etc). In the end it was very poignant when the guy, sitting on Oprah's stage in tears, realized that he in fact had chosen to be on the street, and no matter what he was given from his external environment, if he wasn't really willing to change on the inside, he would continue with his life as it was.

There's a good discussion about the show on Oprah.com's forum:

Oprah.com Community: The $100,000 experiment is cruel ...

 

[Yankees338]

As for the begging bums I ignore them, I don't help people who don't help themselves.

This is basically how I feel. When it comes to helping people, I generally have two guidelines:

1) I help those who help themselves.
2) I help those who want the help.

I'm not gonna butt into someone's life and try to help them if they're not looking for it, and I'm not gonna give someone whatever they want just because they ask for it. If they're working towards bettering themselves and have something to offer, I'll gladly help.

This thread reminded me of a few things. (Btw...rep+++ for ya, Clint. Good thread starter.)

First of all, I recall a night I spent in NYC with a bunch of my friends. We grabbed dinner somewhere, and we were just hangin' out and walking around. While we were walking, a pretty poorly dressed guy (possibly homeless, possibly just a beggar) came up to us and started telling us some jokes. They were actually pretty damn funny, so a bunch of us gave him some money. Why? He earned it. Sure, he didn't have a "job" (good for him ) and probably wasn't gonna pay taxes on the income, but he earned it in my eyes.

Secondly, I think there was a Simpsons episode about this. (Shocking...seems like they have an episode for everything. I think South Park even made fun of the fact that "The Simpsons Did It" for one of their episodes.) Anyhow, Homer becomes a bum/beggar, and he's quite good at it. I remember him playing the "loony" one pretty well. He ends up buying Marge a new piece of jewelry, I believe.

 

[Jill]

The only thing I give to beggars on the street is my lunch or leftovers if I am walking back from a restaurant. If one of them helps me to get a parking spot, I will give a dollar or two. Other than that, I usually donate to the church or a charity.

My husband and I have tried to help a couple of people who were down on their luck or wanted to turn their life around (not beggars though) but it was really frustrating/disappointing because they were not 100% committed to change. And I took it very personally as a failure. So, now I leave it to the "professionals".

I'm completely with you here. I really think that it is no different from handing a kid candy every time he pitches a screaming fit if you give something to someone who is obviously a chronic begger. You are teaching him that you will reward his bad behavior, and he therefore has no incentive to change his behavior. I've given food to them before, but NEVER cash. I will and often do drop a little cash into the case / box of a street performer, even if they're terrible, because they are at least attempting to offer something in return for compensation.

My husband and I have also tried to help people who were on hard times just to have them resent us for not doing more. A couple of them actually stole from us (jewelry and a few other sentimental things) when we "hired" them to help us move. I don't even want to relive some of the experiences for as many minutes as it would take to type it in here. I can't tell you the number of people we have offered to help start an ebay business to make a little money on the side, just to have them come back with, "well, it sounds like a lot of work." Ya THINK???

But suffice it to say that I am more convinced than ever that people are where they are in life because of choices they have made. There are very few exceptions to this (although catastrophic illness would certainly be one of them).

 

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[SteveO]

The main point of this thread is with regards to beggars. I agree with the general discussion that handing money over to people asking on the street is not the proper thing to do.

There are some people that just don't have the ability to sort life out. Even with handouts from the government. It is real difficult to even figure out a bus schedule. Daily activities that most of us take for granted are a major burden to them.

There are people that cannot figure out how to use a cell phone. Can't count money...

There is not a way to teach them how to function the way you and I do. They get left behind in life and society does not know how to deal with them.

Mental illness is easy to spot. People tend to stay away from them because they are unpredictable.

How do you help them?

I grew up in a poor area. I knew a guy that was tall, good looking, and had a pretty normal life. In his early teens, he developed a brain tumor. By the age of 18, he had gone through a couple of brain surgeries and had lost one of his eyes. His mental capacity was now at about the level of an 8 year old.

Because of the brain problems, he was not able to use one side of his body very well. He dragged one of his feet when he walked. He was hideous to look at.

He had siezures regularly. Sometimes people would call the police because they did not know what was going on and he would end up in jail instead of the hospital. He once had a seizure in church and the police took him to jail from there. He was homeless and would sleep in old ratty motels or find abandoned houses.

His bitterness toward the world would get the best of him sometimes. He could not formulate sentences. He knew what he wanted to say but was unable to find words. People would give him a hard time due to his appearance and he would lash out... and end up in jail again.

He had a tender heart and a soul but the world was cruel to him. Everywhere he went, people would stare. He would get escorted out of restaurants and other public places.

He did not shower regulary. The coolness of the water would send him into siezures.

Through all this, he continued to maintain a life to the best of his ability. I helped him get an apartment. Everytime he moved, I helped him. When he needed something, I would help him get it. He did my yardwork for me. Even with his physical problems, he was strong as a bull.

When society did him an injustice, I would stand up for him.

He was always outdoors and in the sun. That did him in. He had a skin graph on his face that covered his eye socket. The graph was taken from the inside of his leg. He developed melanoma on that skin.

He slowly got weaker and was not able to move around very well. He never gave up hope. His family was informed. His sister showed up to visit him in the last couple days of his life.

I took him outside for a walk in a wheelchair. It was the last time that he saw daylight...

There were only five people at his funeral. Although he came from a large family, only one of his blood relatives attended. It was a sad life for him.

This is where my soft spot comes from. The feebleness of my efforts don't go very far these days.

 

[Charmed Angel]

The main point of this thread is with regards to beggars. I agree with the general discussion that handing money over to people asking on the street is not the proper thing to do.

There are some people that just don't have the ability to sort life out. Even with handouts from the government. It is real difficult to even figure out a bus schedule. Daily activities that most of us take for granted are a major burden to them.

There are people that cannot figure out how to use a cell phone. Can't count money...

There is not a way to teach them how to function the way you and I do. They get left behind in life and society does not know how to deal with them.

Mental illness is easy to spot. People tend to stay away from them because they are unpredictable.

How do you help them?

I grew up in a poor area. I knew a guy that was tall, good looking, and had a pretty normal life. In his early teens, he developed a brain tumor. By the age of 18, he had gone through a couple of brain surgeries and had lost one of his eyes. His mental capacity was now at about the level of an 8 year old.

Because of the brain problems, he was not able to use one side of his body very well. He dragged one of his feet when he walked. He was hideous to look at.

He had siezures regularly. Sometimes people would call the police because they did not know what was going on and he would end up in jail instead of the hospital. He once had a seizure in church and the police took him to jail from there. He was homeless and would sleep in old ratty motels or find abandoned houses.

His bitterness toward the world would get the best of him sometimes. He could not formulate sentences. He knew what he wanted to say but was unable to find words. People would give him a hard time due to his appearance and he would lash out... and end up in jail again.

He had a tender heart and a soul but the world was cruel to him. Everywhere he went, people would stare. He would get escorted out of restaurants and other public places.

He did not shower regulary. The coolness of the water would send him into siezures.

Through all this, he continued to maintain a life to the best of his ability. I helped him get an apartment. Everytime he moved, I helped him. When he needed something, I would help him get it. He did my yardwork for me. Even with his physical problems, he was strong as a bull.

When society did him an injustice, I would stand up for him.

He was always outdoors and in the sun. That did him in. He had a skin graph on his face that covered his eye socket. The graph was taken from the inside of his leg. He developed melanoma on that skin.

He slowly got weaker and was not able to move around very well. He never gave up hope. His family was informed. His sister showed up to visit him in the last couple days of his life.

I took him outside for a walk in a wheelchair. It was the last time that he saw daylight...

There were only five people at his funeral. Although he came from a large family, only one of his blood relatives attended. It was a sad life for him.

This is where my soft spot comes from. The feebleness of my efforts don't go very far these days.

I just got goose bumps reading this.
Steve, you inspire me to be a better person!
Thanks Rep +++

 

[bflbob]

I just got goose bumps reading this.
Steve, you inspire me to be a better person!
Thanks Rep +++

Ditto.

More Rep.

See...I knew Steve didn't just beat up on kids.

Like Sears, he has a softer side.

Great story Steve!

 

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[PEERless]

HEADS UP! I found Homeless: Can You Build a Life From $25? last spring. Then I lost it. So glad I found it again. "In a test of the American Dream, Adam Shepard started life from scratch with the clothes on his back and twenty-five dollars. Ten months later, he had an apartment, a car, and a small savings."

Bottom line, ATTITUDE matters. Once you admit defeat, you have defeated yourself. Yes, initial conditions are important. Some towns just don't have jobs. Some people are too sick to work. If you have the ability to work, count your blessings. Earning potential is the most powerful asset you have -- that's what powers the $4.1 trillion/year insurance industry.

 

[TaxGuy]

Secondly, I think there was a Simpsons episode about this. (Shocking...seems like they have an episode for everything. I think South Park even made fun of the fact that "The Simpsons Did It" for one of their episodes.)

Ahh yes the "Simpsons Did It" episode, an instant classic! But yea, Beavis and Butthead had an episode like that as well w/ Bobcat Goldthwait playing the voice of the beggar

There were only five people at his funeral. Although he came from a large family, only one of his blood relatives attended. It was a sad life for him.

This is where my soft spot comes from. The feebleness of my efforts don't go very far these days.

SteveO- it's stories like these that keep my faith in humanity, while there are a lot of scumbags out there including those who treated this guy so horribly, the kindness you showed him went a long way and he not only was deserving but sounded very appreciative of the kindness you showed!

In addition to that the fact that there are many out on the streets that are either teens from broken homes or vets who selflessly gave the best years of their life for a promise of lasting benefits of a stipend and healthcare that they've been denied in their biggest time of need and none of us will understand the torture and anguish these people have been through. With that said though, it is despicable the people who patronize those who are suffering and try to pose as a homeless veteran or a teen from a broken home only to get handouts, while I'm sure they're the minority in this group, it makes it harder for those of us willing to help those truly in need.

 

[ryanpal]

SteveO,

intense story and well written. if that was a prelude to someone asking for a charity donation, i'm sure everyone would have donated.

 

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[Jill]

SteveO,

intense story and well written. if that was a prelude to someone asking for a charity donation, i'm sure everyone would have donated.

Agreed! This guy definitely fits into my "catastrophic illness" category, as do most of those with mental illnesses.

 

[MJ DeMarco]

There are professional beggars, and then there are "real" beggars who truly are victims of circumstances not of their own doing.

Choices play a vital role in our life ... SteveO's story is a great example when we fall into circumstances that are beyond our control or not of our doing. That man didn't decide to have a brain tumor. He didn't choose to have siezures.

Most people begging on the street are victims of their own choosing.

To answer the question orginally asked, I believe this man is a professional begger.

Professional beggars make good money -- some $60K/year, TAX FREE.

My ex-GF knew a professional beggar ... they lived a modest, middle class life in the city, and yes, even owned a house. They made decent money, worked when they want, and didn't have to pay taxes. Then of course, there are the 20-20 stories that have been done over the various years revealing the same truth - most of these people aren't in dire straits -- they are simply making a nice living, doing nothing, and doing it tax free.

It's people like the guy in SteveO's story that end up not getting the help they need because of the abusers/liars who play the role of victims.

 

[TaiMyShu]

I try not to give cash out to beggers when they come up to me, but I'll offer to buy them food instead. It's surprising that some will not take my offer, which assures me that if I was to give them cash - it'll be use for booze or a quick fix. So when they say "no" or insist on giving them cash, I'll just look at them and walk off.

It would be more inept for me to give someone cash if it wasn't being begged for.

 

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[TaxGuy]

MJ- i wonder if that's the same guy that came in to my dad's office in Goodyear to get his taxes done, I gotta ask him again, but he said this guy came in and said that he felt guilty and wanted to pay taxes on his earnings from begging.

As far as ex's was this the same one who had some type of shady biz that dealt solely in cash?

 

[MJ DeMarco]

As far as ex's was this the same one who had some type of shady biz that dealt solely in cash?

Yup.

 

[hatterasguy]

This is basically how I feel. When it comes to helping people, I generally have two guidelines:

1) I help those who help themselves.
2) I help those who want the help.

I'm not gonna butt into someone's life and try to help them if they're not looking for it, and I'm not gonna give someone whatever they want just because they ask for it. If they're working towards bettering themselves and have something to offer, I'll gladly help.

This thread reminded me of a few things. (Btw...rep+++ for ya, Clint. Good thread starter.)

First of all, I recall a night I spent in NYC with a bunch of my friends. We grabbed dinner somewhere, and we were just hangin' out and walking around. While we were walking, a pretty poorly dressed guy (possibly homeless, possibly just a beggar) came up to us and started telling us some jokes. They were actually pretty damn funny, so a bunch of us gave him some money. Why? He earned it. Sure, he didn't have a "job" (good for him ) and probably wasn't gonna pay taxes on the income, but he earned it in my eyes.

Secondly, I think there was a Simpsons episode about this. (Shocking...seems like they have an episode for everything. I think South Park even made fun of the fact that "The Simpsons Did It" for one of their episodes.) Anyhow, Homer becomes a bum/beggar, and he's quite good at it. I remember him playing the "loony" one pretty well. He ends up buying Marge a new piece of jewelry, I believe.

Well I work very hard for what I have, and nothing pisses me off more than people expecting hand outs.

If I see someone working hard to improve their lives I will help them. For example one guy who works for my uncle, and me sometimes as well, is working his butt off to get ahead. So I will actualy find stuff for him to do on my projects. I don't really need him to clean out the crap behind the garage or sweep the basement for example, but if he can get paid for a couple extra hours that really helps him. I don't mind paying a few extra hours of labor to help him out a bit. I'm making good money on my project so I don't mind spreading a bit of that to people who really deserve it.

Their is a limit though, its a business not a charity.

 

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[Rawr]

The more money you give to a beggar (the professional kind) the more incentive you give him not to work.

I have friends who play pranks with beggars - like stopping 60 feet from the stop light he is camping.. backing up traffic until the light turns green and then moving all the cars past him.

then I have friends who always give money to beggars - $2 and more. I find this is more often intimidation working then wanting to help - sometimes I found myself wanting to give money just to get rid of the guy.

 

[SteveO]

It seems that there are people asking for money all over the place these days. I don't give money to people standing around with signs or cornering people in parking lots. On the other hand, there are many that I see that are clearly in need. I will go out of my way to give them a few bucks.

This is an old post. Bump for the old timers.

 

[Runum]

LOL. BryanC is on this thread.

 

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