The Active Forex Traders Discussion

[Arturo-Jay]

<div class="bbWrapper">I was never a good trader really...had on/off win/loss streak, some nice wins, plenty of complete account blow ups too. At the same time, I mentored a friend and he made over 200k off his 5k investment back in 07/08/09 period. Pretty cool, but he was just gambling and used massive leverage. A lot of people call him &quot;luck&quot; but he&#039;s intelligent, uses technical analysis directly off the chart and no BS....<br /> <br /> After he made all that money, he decided to quit....Luck or skill, who knows.<br /> But he has a full ride scholarship, what does it matter to him anyways.<br /> <br /> Anyways, this is what I do have to share. <br /> I designed a &quot;system&quot; and I say that in quotes because it was rule based, but I found a way to make any reasonable &quot;system&quot; profitable. My equity curve was very consistant, take a look....<br /> (Note: Only problem I had was the $$ gain on my equity was way too conservative, not enough to make a living off of unless you had tens of thousands, preferably hundreds of thousands...)<br /> <br /> Note: when looking at graph, the shaded grey area is what I &quot;invested.&quot;<br /> The gain or drawdown is the line graph above it, and rarely even touches the original investment.<br /> <br /> No $ amounts are given. It&#039;s not a lot of money, but it was more of a test over 3-4 months to see if a consistent result could even be achieved.</div>

 

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[garyfritz]

<div class="bbWrapper">Arturo-Jay: So you have a very high-percentage system, with lots of wins. Obviously the losses are much larger than the wins. Sounds similar in concept to my FX system. Care to share any details? How are you &quot;making any reasonable system profitable&quot; ?<br /> <br /> Udine, nice results! Only two days of trading aren&#039;t enough to tell how the system performs over time, but it seems like a very nice start!<br /> <br /> I haven&#039;t done scalping at that level -- I&#039;ve never taken more than 2-3 trades per day. I&#039;ve heard some brokers don&#039;t like traders who trade too frequently, but I assume 10-12 trades per day isn&#039;t a problem?</div>

 

[Udine]

<div class="bbWrapper"><blockquote data-attributes="" data-quote="garyfritz" data-source="post: 178229" class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-title"> <a href="/community/goto/post?id=178229" class="bbCodeBlock-sourceJump" rel="nofollow" data-xf-click="attribution" data-content-selector="#post-178229">garyfritz said:</a> </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-content"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandContent js-expandContent "> Arturo-Jay: So you have a very high-percentage system, with lots of wins. Obviously the losses are much larger than the wins. Sounds similar in concept to my FX system. Care to share any details? How are you &quot;making any reasonable system profitable&quot; ?<br /> <br /> Udine, nice results! Only two days of trading aren&#039;t enough to tell how the system performs over time, but it seems like a very nice start!<br /> <br /> I haven&#039;t done scalping at that level -- I&#039;ve never taken more than 2-3 trades per day. I&#039;ve heard some brokers don&#039;t like traders who trade too frequently, but I assume 10-12 trades per day isn&#039;t a problem? </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandLink js-expandLink"><a role="button" tabindex="0">Click to expand...</a></div> </div> </blockquote><br /> Hi Garyfritz,<br /> <br /> thanks, I know the results are very nice, but two days of trading dont tell me nothing, but -i have been finetuning this &quot;system&quot; for over two months and it looks very consistent.<br /> <br /> In Italy you can get about 3 % on a bank account and I just want to try to get to 5 % weekly. If I can get that consistently, I will be in the fastlane in no time.<br /> <br /> With regards to the trading frequency, I can only tell that my broker does not seem to care. But when I trade live as soon as I reach my daily goal, I will stop trading for the day.<br /> <br /> I have written out a complete checklist, which I use as my business plan, and it keeps me right on track.<br /> <br /> If you&#039;re interesteed I can post the template here.<br /> <br /> Green pips.<br /> <br /> Udine</div>

 

[^eagle^]

<div class="bbWrapper">Thats some nice trading there Udine. London Break out No doubt. Unfortunately I live on the east coast and my time is limited to early to mid asia which of course is the worst possible time to trade. But I found an individual who is trading very well and has started a free webinar about his method. It&#039;s based on Sam seiden&#039;s seminars.<br /> <br /> I went through Sam&#039;s and found it very informative. Lots of stuff I knew but really didnt have it crystallized in a way that Sam presents it. <br /> <br /> This aquaintence has started a Free trading room/ webinar and I suggest anyone who is interested to take a look at it. I have watched this guy trade live and he knows what he&#039;s doing. <br /> <br /> No indicators or oscillators. Just Supply and demand with fibbs for guidance. <br /> <br /> <a href="http://anymeeting.com/WebConference/default.aspx?ip_ek=deankenny1" target="_blank" class="link link--external" rel="noopener">Supply and Demand Trading with Dean - AnyMeeting | Free Web Conferencing, Webcast and Webinar Service</a><br /> <br /> Starts at 3PM EST and goes all night into asian trading. Been looking for someone like this for a while who gets Support and resistance (supply and demand as Dean calls it. He gets pissed when you mention support and resistance.)<br /> <br /> Perfect for my time slot. He gave me another piece of the puzzle.<br /> <br /> <a href="http://transcripts.fxstreet.com/2007/11/supply-and-dema.html" target="_blank" class="link link--external" rel="noopener">http://transcripts.fxstreet.com/2007/11/supply-and-dema.html</a><br /> <br /> Here is a webinar from Sam Seiden.</div>

 

[Arturo-Jay]

<div class="bbWrapper"><blockquote data-attributes="" data-quote="garyfritz" data-source="post: 178229" class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-title"> <a href="/community/goto/post?id=178229" class="bbCodeBlock-sourceJump" rel="nofollow" data-xf-click="attribution" data-content-selector="#post-178229">garyfritz said:</a> </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-content"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandContent js-expandContent "> Arturo-Jay: So you have a very high-percentage system, with lots of wins. Obviously the losses are much larger than the wins. Sounds similar in concept to my FX system. Care to share any details? How are you &quot;making any reasonable system profitable&quot; ? </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandLink js-expandLink"><a role="button" tabindex="0">Click to expand...</a></div> </div> </blockquote> <br /> No, I think the chart confused you. The max drawdown, on that report is 0.06%<br /> And overall winning trade percentage is 95.41% (I had a friend ask me how it was humanly possible).<br /> The only way I was able to make this work, was if my system had atleast 40-50% total winning trades, that&#039;s all I needed. All I did was follow my set of rules, which involved making a lot of small trades. <br /> I can&#039;t disclose it all, because 1.) It&#039;s unconventional, I have no doubt I would receive some heat on it!<br /> 2.) I spent 4 months testing live, with real money, so I might as well keep it for the day I&#039;ll need it (under-capitalized currently).<br /> <br /> Look at the chart, consecutive wins @ 63 in a row.<br /> But in the end I quit and threw in the towel, because over 4 months the return was around 9%. It wasn&#039;t worth the $450 gain on my $5,000 tiny account, because of lost time.<br /> I guess if you have 250k-500k it would be a stress-free approach to making money trading, making roughly 12%+ a year on a good sized account. <br /> <br /> But if anyone has that kind of money and needs an independent contractor, I would be willing to work on commission, trading your account remotely (so long as I get my paycheck every week!). <br /> In the mean time, my 9-5 is more profitable (dollar amount wise$$).<br /> <br /> BTW: Garyfritz, if you have serious money, most larger ECN style brokers are cool with you doing hundreds of trades...for FX, that would be the swiss FX dealers... like Dukoscopy (people literally deposit anywhere from 5k-1Mil with that broker. For the larger &#039;individual&#039;/professional traders.)</div>

 

[Udine]

<div class="bbWrapper"><blockquote data-attributes="" data-quote="^eagle^" data-source="post: 178304" class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-title"> <a href="/community/goto/post?id=178304" class="bbCodeBlock-sourceJump" rel="nofollow" data-xf-click="attribution" data-content-selector="#post-178304">^eagle^ said:</a> </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-content"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandContent js-expandContent "> Thats some nice trading there Udine. London Break out No doubt. Unfortunately I live on the east coast and my time is limited to early to mid asia which of course is the worst possible time to trade. But I found an individual who is trading very well and has started a free webinar about his method. It&#039;s based on Sam seiden&#039;s seminars.<br /> <br /> I went through Sam&#039;s and found it very informative. Lots of stuff I knew but really didnt have it crystallized in a way that Sam presents it. <br /> <br /> This aquaintence has started a Free trading room/ webinar and I suggest anyone who is interested to take a look at it. I have watched this guy trade live and he knows what he&#039;s doing. <br /> <br /> No indicators or oscillators. Just Supply and demand with fibbs for guidance. <br /> <br /> <a href="http://anymeeting.com/WebConference/default.aspx?ip_ek=deankenny1" target="_blank" class="link link--external" rel="nofollow ugc noopener">Supply and Demand Trading with Dean - AnyMeeting | Free Web Conferencing, Webcast and Webinar Service</a><br /> <br /> Starts at 3PM EST and goes all night into asian trading. Been looking for someone like this for a while who gets Support and resistance (supply and demand as Dean calls it. He gets pissed when you mention support and resistance.)<br /> <br /> Perfect for my time slot. He gave me another piece of the puzzle.<br /> <br /> <a href="http://transcripts.fxstreet.com/2007/11/supply-and-dema.html" target="_blank" class="link link--external" rel="nofollow ugc noopener">FXstreet.com Live Sessions Archives: Supply and Demand Trading with Mechanical Indicators and Oscillators in the Forex Markets</a><br /> <br /> Here is a webinar from Sam Seiden. </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandLink js-expandLink"><a role="button" tabindex="0">Click to expand...</a></div> </div> </blockquote><br /> Hi Eagle,<br /> <br /> Thanks for the links. I will check them out !<br /> <br /> With regards to London Breakout: not really.<br /> <br /> I do trade the EU &amp; GU on the 5M timeframe from Frankfurt open until London close. <br /> <br /> I use two indicators, where one is showing the 15M timeframe, so I am always trading in line with the higher timeframe (= with the trend, although it might be a counter trend on the 1 hour, 4 hour or day). <br /> <br /> As I only want a slice of the bread (10 pips) and not the whole bread, it works perfectly for me. This 10 pips adds 2.5 % to the account, and on the EU and GU I get between 3 - 5 perfect set-ups per day each ( so 6 - 10 trade set-ups in total), but as I am still working full-time, I dont get them all <img src="/community/imgs/emoticons/em-wink.png" class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=";)" title="Wink ;)" data-shortname=";)" /><br /> <br /> As long as I get 1 / day, which results in +2.5% / day to the account, I could be participating in the Russ H: project: <a href="https://www.thefastlaneforum.com/your-goals-your-fastlane-plan/513-3-000-1-000-000-15-months-how-do.html" class="link link--internal">https://www.thefastlaneforum.com/yo...lan/513-3-000-1-000-000-15-months-how-do.html</a><br /> <br /> When my test is over I will see if I can do it. <br /> <br /> Green pips.<br /> <br /> Udine</div>

 

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[Udine]

<div class="bbWrapper">Just an update.<br /> <br /> I have changed the leverage down to 50:1 today. <br /> Todays results + 6% to the account.<br /> <br /> FYI I have attached the traders-checklist, which is perfect to describe your thoughts with regards to your trading business. It covers all and forces you to write down all details. I have adapted this in Word for personal use. <br /> <br /> When you dont treat the fx as a business, for sure you will fail. As I dont plan to fail, I have a detailed plan for the future, which keeps me focussed and on target <img src="/community/imgs/emoticons/em-wink.png" class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=";)" title="Wink ;)" data-shortname=";)" /> <br /> <br /> Green pips to all.<br /> <br /> Udine</div>

 

[linny75]

<div class="bbWrapper"><b>re active forex traders</b><br /> <br /> hi everyone, i am a very active trader, my goal is to start with a small account and build it up fast-, i don&#039;t see the point in having a big account and trading it like a fund manager at 1-2% risk, that type of money management is all well and good when you have a huge account and just want small conssitent returns and you want to scale down your risk, but to turn a small account into a large account you have to think differently.<br /> <br /> My current goal is to turn a teeny £200 micro account into a large account, with scalping it is very possible to get an average of 10% per day (if you know what your are doing!) weekly thats 61% and monthly well you do the math.<br /> <br /> in the uk spreadbetting is tax free which is another bonus.<br /> <br /> I think there is too much propoganda about the type of money management you should use in trading, in my opinion your risk should relate to <br /> 1 what is your win loss ratio if you are getting 80% + winners then why not up your bets when on a winning streak and if you start losing start again with smaller trades.<br /> 2 what is your risk reward<br /> 3 how much do you rate the trade you are about to take not all trades are created equal<br /> <br /> If you look at the daily fx contest winners<br /> they are doing between 400-3000% per month<br /> <br /> are some of them taking huge risks with the account?<br /> yes of course but some of them aren&#039;t , what they are doing is using profits made to finance their next trades.<br /> <br /> therefore they start using their smaller trades to fiance bigger trades and go up in size sometimes up to 400,000 units.<br /> <br /> also they take losses which means that they are not margined out and they are still able to get stellar returns.<br /> <br /> In my opinion you need to fast lane your thinking after all if you have a tiny account and you got margined out so what, its a tiny account you have limited risk and unlimited upside by trading aggressively.<br /> You could make big profits and take half out every month so if you blow the account you can start again.<br /> <br /> Since i have started thinking this way i am doing much better in my trading<br /> <br /> just my humble opinion</div>

 

[garyfritz]

<div class="bbWrapper">I would love to learn how you get 10% per day! I&#039;d be tickled with 5%. <img src="/community/imgs/emoticons/em-smile2.png" class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" data-shortname=":)" /><br /> <br /> FWIW there are very good reasons not to raise your leverage too high. There are precise mathematical formulae that describe the risk of ruin for a particular trading system. You can calculate the Optimal f (Ralph Vince) or the Kelly factor -- they arrive at the answer in different ways but the concepts are the same.<br /> <br /> Basically you can increase your leverage and increase your long-term returns (AND your drawdowns) -- up to a point. If you exceed the critical point, you will lose money in the long run EVEN WITH A WINNING SYSTEM.<br /> <br /> I use the analogy of race-car driving. Leverage is your &quot;speed.&quot; The faster you go, the better your time on the track. BUT if you go TOO fast, you will shoot off the track on the hairpin turn and crash. Similarly, if you use TOO MUCH leverage, you will blow up your account even if you have a winning system.<br /> <br /> Example: say you flip a coin. 50% chance of winning. Heads you win $2, tails you lose $1. That&#039;s a fantastic winning game. Now, how much do you bet on each flip? Obviously betting 100% is a bad idea, because you&#039;ll go broke on your first tails. But smaller fractions are also a bad idea.<br /> <br /> I won&#039;t go into the math here but it turns out the optimal bet fraction for this game is 25%. Over the long haul you&#039;ll make the maximum profit by betting 25%. Your drawdowns will be horrific but you&#039;ll make the most money over the long run. Bet any more than 25% and you&#039;ll make less profit; bet more than 50% and you&#039;ll LOSE money.<br /> <br /> Your best risk size is something less than the &quot;optimal&quot; bet size. You&#039;ll make less profit but your drawdowns will be much more manageable.<br /> <br /> So don&#039;t get TOO crazy with your leverage. You might want to start keeping a record of all your trades. With enough trades I can help you calculate the optimal risk size.</div>

 

[Udine]

<div class="bbWrapper">Why risk so much ??<br /> <br /> A simple calculation:<br /> <br /> If you start with $ 3.000 and get just over 2 % /day (2.1% to be exact), you have the 1 million in 15 months of the Russ H. challenge.<br /> <br /> If you start with just $ 1000 and make consistently 1 % / day in three years time, you have reached the 1 million mark.<br /> <br /> I just dont get why everybody wants to hit home runs all the time, it must be the greed factor <img src="/community/imgs/emoticons/em-wink.png" class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=";)" title="Wink ;)" data-shortname=";)" />) <br /> <br /> I prefer to be a bricklayer. An analogy from the &quot;Mantra of Discipline&quot;. What is better than to know with confidence that you can get your daily target from the market with focus, commitment and discipline. <br /> <br /> I am testing now and doing very nicelybut when I get at certain milestones, I will decrease my leverage and my risk factor. To reduce more and more the risk, with the goal to preserve my capital.<br /> <br /> I have been demo testing and in three days I got very nice returns (averaging around 8 %/ day) , which would be in real life equal to my monthly salary.<br /> <br /> I want to grow my account to $ 50.000 and then split it in two equal parts: one for living expenses and one for growth. The growth account will be used to diversify in passive income streams.<br /> <br /> I am thinking of opening a third account, a kind of WTF account, where I put a small amount where I am able to play with higher risk.<br /> <br /> My idea for such high-risk approach is to move forward in stages of triple (1K example): <br /> <br /> deposit 1K -&gt; trade it up to 3K <br /> withdraw 1K, don&#039;t touch it (treat it as a buffer) <br /> <br /> 2K left in account -&gt; trade it up to 6K <br /> withdraw 2K, this is your buffer now, previous 1K is free to use <br /> <br /> 4K left in account -&gt; trade it up to 12K <br /> withdraw 4K, this is your buffer now, previous 2K is free to use <br /> <br /> 8K left in account -&gt; ...... <br /> <br /> ...and so on. The idea behind the buffer is to be able to withstand a complete account blowout. You keep the deposit of previous completed stage until you move up to next one, if you fail, you just lose one stage, can employ less risky approach to recover albeit it takes much more time, etc, etc.<br /> <br /> I intend to do this only with my WTF account, to see if I can sped up my process, without risking my main accounts.<br /> <br /> Green pips to all.<br /> <br /> Udine</div>

 

[linny75]

<div class="bbWrapper"><b>re growing a small account fast</b><br /> <br /> <blockquote data-attributes="" data-quote="garyfritz" data-source="post: 178455" class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-title"> <a href="/community/goto/post?id=178455" class="bbCodeBlock-sourceJump" rel="nofollow" data-xf-click="attribution" data-content-selector="#post-178455">garyfritz said:</a> </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-content"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandContent js-expandContent "> I would love to learn how you get 10% per day! I&#039;d be tickled with 5%. <img src="/community/imgs/emoticons/em-smile2.png" class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" data-shortname=":)" /><br /> <br /> FWIW there are very good reasons not to raise your leverage too high. There are precise mathematical formulae that describe the risk of ruin for a particular trading system. You can calculate the Optimal f (Ralph Vince) or the Kelly factor -- they arrive at the answer in different ways but the concepts are the same.<br /> <br /> Basically you can increase your leverage and increase your long-term returns (AND your drawdowns) -- up to a point. If you exceed the critical point, you will lose money in the long run EVEN WITH A WINNING SYSTEM.<br /> <br /> I use the analogy of race-car driving. Leverage is your &quot;speed.&quot; The faster you go, the better your time on the track. BUT if you go TOO fast, you will shoot off the track on the hairpin turn and crash. Similarly, if you use TOO MUCH leverage, you will blow up your account even if you have a winning system.<br /> <br /> Example: say you flip a coin. 50% chance of winning. Heads you win $2, tails you lose $1. That&#039;s a fantastic winning game. Now, how much do you bet on each flip? Obviously betting 100% is a bad idea, because you&#039;ll go broke on your first tails. But smaller fractions are also a bad idea.<br /> <br /> I won&#039;t go into the math here but it turns out the optimal bet fraction for this game is 25%. Over the long haul you&#039;ll make the maximum profit by betting 25%. Your drawdowns will be horrific but you&#039;ll make the most money over the long run. Bet any more than 25% and you&#039;ll make less profit; bet more than 50% and you&#039;ll LOSE money.<br /> <br /> Your best risk size is something less than the &quot;optimal&quot; bet size. You&#039;ll make less profit but your drawdowns will be much more manageable.<br /> <br /> So don&#039;t get TOO crazy with your leverage. You might want to start keeping a record of all your trades. With enough trades I can help you calculate the optimal risk size. </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandLink js-expandLink"><a role="button" tabindex="0">Click to expand...</a></div> </div> </blockquote><br /> thanks for the input<br /> <br /> i don&#039;t get 10% a day, some days i get 25% some days i lose money, im looking for an average, also i am finding that it is best not to have a monetary goal but a process goal which is to trade well.<br /> <br /> I understand about risk but im talking about using the opportunity of taking a very small account and turning it into a large one, the type of trading and money management you use are different to if you have an account with thousands of dollars, or indeed any account where risk of ruin is a problem.<br /> <br /> look at it this way, lets say you have a roulette table, what would you rather bet on the red and the black or the numbers on the wheel, if you bet on the numbers you have a 1/38 chance approximately of winning<br /> that is equal to picking a particular entry point in the market , it&#039;s so easy to get stopped out by market noise, if you bet on the red or the black you have a 50/50 chance, that is equivalent to direction of the market, so much of losing in the markets is about being right about direction but wrong about entry.<br /> <br /> for traders who don&#039;t use stop losses that&#039;s what they are betting on the direction of the market and allowing the market to fluctuate as it like as long as it goes in the right direction and adding on as it goes along .<br /> <br /> that is a very risky strategy as the market can turn round and you lose the account, but if your account is very small SO WHAT<br /> <br /> its very likely you will make back the money in the account before you get ruined and you can withdraw it, im saying that you can use the very samll account to trade in a different way than you would normally.<br /> <br /> im not advocating one over the other, it depends what you want for your account. If you have an account that you can build up bit by bit over time then that&#039;s great and that is the best way, im just saying that im doing something else because risk of ruin is not a problem, it&#039;s taken into account.<br /> <br /> My other trading account is not run like that.<br /> <br /> thanks for the input, all tips are welcome.</div>

 

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[linny75]

<div class="bbWrapper"><b>re small account into large account</b><br /> <br /> <blockquote data-attributes="" data-quote="Udine" data-source="post: 178539" class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-title"> <a href="/community/goto/post?id=178539" class="bbCodeBlock-sourceJump" rel="nofollow" data-xf-click="attribution" data-content-selector="#post-178539">Udine said:</a> </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-content"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandContent js-expandContent "> Why risk so much ??<br /> <br /> A simple calculation:<br /> <br /> If you start with $ 3.000 and get just over 2 % /day (2.1% to be exact), you have the 1 million in 15 months of the Russ H. challenge.<br /> <br /> If you start with just $ 1000 and make consistently 1 % / day in three years time, you have reached the 1 million mark.<br /> <br /> I just dont get why everybody wants to hit home runs all the time, it must be the greed factor <img src="/community/imgs/emoticons/em-wink.png" class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=";)" title="Wink ;)" data-shortname=";)" />) <br /> <br /> I prefer to be a bricklayer. An analogy from the &quot;Mantra of Discipline&quot;. What is better than to know with confidence that you can get your daily target from the market with focus, commitment and discipline. <br /> <br /> I am testing now and doing very nicelybut when I get at certain milestones, I will decrease my leverage and my risk factor. To reduce more and more the risk, with the goal to preserve my capital.<br /> <br /> I have been demo testing and in three days I got very nice returns (averaging around 8 %/ day) , which would be in real life equal to my monthly salary.<br /> <br /> I want to grow my account to $ 50.000 and then split it in two equal parts: one for living expenses and one for growth. The growth account will be used to diversify in passive income streams.<br /> <br /> I am thinking of opening a third account, a kind of WTF account, where I put a small amount where I am able to play with higher risk.<br /> <br /> My idea for such high-risk approach is to move forward in stages of triple (1K example): <br /> <br /> deposit 1K -&gt; trade it up to 3K <br /> withdraw 1K, don&#039;t touch it (treat it as a buffer) <br /> <br /> 2K left in account -&gt; trade it up to 6K <br /> withdraw 2K, this is your buffer now, previous 1K is free to use <br /> <br /> 4K left in account -&gt; trade it up to 12K <br /> withdraw 4K, this is your buffer now, previous 2K is free to use <br /> <br /> 8K left in account -&gt; ...... <br /> <br /> ...and so on. The idea behind the buffer is to be able to withstand a complete account blowout. You keep the deposit of previous completed stage until you move up to next one, if you fail, you just lose one stage, can employ less risky approach to recover albeit it takes much more time, etc, etc.<br /> <br /> I intend to do this only with my WTF account, to see if I can sped up my process, without risking my main accounts.<br /> <br /> Green pips to all.<br /> <br /> Udine </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandLink js-expandLink"><a role="button" tabindex="0">Click to expand...</a></div> </div> </blockquote><br /> yes udine, i like it, thats exactly how i intend to manage the money<br /> in my wtf account</div>

 

[linny75]

<div class="bbWrapper"><blockquote data-attributes="" data-quote="garyfritz" data-source="post: 178455" class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-title"> <a href="/community/goto/post?id=178455" class="bbCodeBlock-sourceJump" rel="nofollow" data-xf-click="attribution" data-content-selector="#post-178455">garyfritz said:</a> </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-content"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandContent js-expandContent "> I would love to learn how you get 10% per day! I&#039;d be tickled with 5%. <img src="/community/imgs/emoticons/em-smile2.png" class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" data-shortname=":)" /><br /> <br /> FWIW there are very good reasons not to raise your leverage too high. There are precise mathematical formulae that describe the risk of ruin for a particular trading system. You can calculate the Optimal f (Ralph Vince) or the Kelly factor -- they arrive at the answer in different ways but the concepts are the same.<br /> <br /> Basically you can increase your leverage and increase your long-term returns (AND your drawdowns) -- up to a point. If you exceed the critical point, you will lose money in the long run EVEN WITH A WINNING SYSTEM.<br /> <br /> I use the analogy of race-car driving. Leverage is your &quot;speed.&quot; The faster you go, the better your time on the track. BUT if you go TOO fast, you will shoot off the track on the hairpin turn and crash. Similarly, if you use TOO MUCH leverage, you will blow up your account even if you have a winning system.<br /> <br /> Example: say you flip a coin. 50% chance of winning. Heads you win $2, tails you lose $1. That&#039;s a fantastic winning game. Now, how much do you bet on each flip? Obviously betting 100% is a bad idea, because you&#039;ll go broke on your first tails. But smaller fractions are also a bad idea.<br /> <br /> I won&#039;t go into the math here but it turns out the optimal bet fraction for this game is 25%. Over the long haul you&#039;ll make the maximum profit by betting 25%. Your drawdowns will be horrific but you&#039;ll make the most money over the long run. Bet any more than 25% and you&#039;ll make less profit; bet more than 50% and you&#039;ll LOSE money.<br /> <br /> Your best risk size is something less than the &quot;optimal&quot; bet size. You&#039;ll make less profit but your drawdowns will be much more manageable.<br /> <br /> So don&#039;t get TOO crazy with your leverage. You might want to start keeping a record of all your trades. With enough trades I can help you calculate the optimal risk size. </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandLink js-expandLink"><a role="button" tabindex="0">Click to expand...</a></div> </div> </blockquote> <br /> <br /> just one more point re the flipping coin analogy, i have seen it used a lot in the van tharp books for exmaple, but i disagree with that analogy, the point about flipping a coin is that there is no connection between the result from one coin flip to another, if the coin comes up heads, then there is no reason it should come up heads again.<br /> <br /> in trading lets say the momentum is very strong on the hourly chart you look for a good entry point to jump into that trend, there is a good reason to suppose that the trade will go your way, its logical, the banks are moving the markets in a particular direction and very fast, so it follows that the trade is &#039;weighted&#039; in a way that coin flip is not.</div>

 

[garyfritz]

<div class="bbWrapper">True. There can be serial correlation from one trade to another in a situation like that. BUT over time, over a large number of trades, I suspect the trade results settle into a much more &quot;random&quot; pattern. For your system it might be 80% wins instead of 50/50 like a coin flip, but over a large sample it will be randomly 80% wins. And it&#039;s over a large sample that you need to perform.<br /> <br /> If the trade behavior follows this type of &quot;random&quot; behavior, then all the mathematical analysis I&#039;m talking about applies.</div>

 

[Udine]

<div class="bbWrapper"><blockquote data-attributes="" data-quote="linny75" data-source="post: 178561" class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-title"> <a href="/community/goto/post?id=178561" class="bbCodeBlock-sourceJump" rel="nofollow" data-xf-click="attribution" data-content-selector="#post-178561">linny75 said:</a> </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-content"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandContent js-expandContent "> yes udine, i like it, thats exactly how i intend to manage the money<br /> in my wtf account </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandLink js-expandLink"><a role="button" tabindex="0">Click to expand...</a></div> </div> </blockquote><br /> I then only hope you take less risk on your regular account <img src="/community/imgs/emoticons/em-wink.png" class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=";)" title="Wink ;)" data-shortname=";)" />)<br /> <br /> <br /> Capital preservation should be your NR. 1 Rule. Like the two rules of Warren Buffet:<br /> 1. Dont loose your money<br /> 2. Dont forget rule nr. 1.<br /> <br /> Green pips<br /> <br /> Udine</div>

 

[Arturo-Jay]

<div class="bbWrapper">I don&#039;t think 6% or 120% return in one day is any good at all, anyone can do that. And I&#039;ve seen it done with x,xxx$ thousands.<br /> <br /> The problem with that type of return, obviously your at risk for massive destruction of your &quot;trading&quot; (gambling) account. <br /> <br /> And yeah, I&#039;d love to see anyone sustain a 2% daily gain for the next 5 years, its so rare.<br /> It is highly likely that you can make some big quick money and lose it very, very quickly.</div>

 

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[CarrieW]

<div class="bbWrapper">I have a question for the computer people on here. I want to buy a laptop/netbook to just trade and check out websites. it doesnt have to do anything but be able to run mt4. <br /> <br /> is a netbook able to run mt4? something like this? <a href="http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Dell+-+Inspiron+Mini+Netbook+/+Intel%26%23174%3B+Atom%26%23153%3B+Processor+/+10.1%26%2334%3B+Display+-+Black/3503155.p?id=1218407008742&amp;skuId=3503155" target="_blank" class="link link--external" rel="noopener">Dell - Inspiron Mini Netbook / Intel® Atom™ Processor / 10.1&quot; Display - Black - IM1012-2699OBK</a></div>

 

[EdwardWhite]

<div class="bbWrapper">yes it will run on a netbook, I run mine on a older Acer Aspire d150(its has a 10 inch screen and runs one of the older atom, non duel core processors). Problem is the screen size, you cannot see the charts very well, unless you close out the account information on the bottom. So, I use it to just check on long term trades, to see if they are on track.<br /> <br /> You might be better off buying a cheap laptop, for about 100 dollars more, if screen size is going to be a bit of a concern. I know tigerdirect.com is selling an Acer with a 15.6 inch screen, for 249 or so after a 50 dollar rebate, then maybe spending about 30 dollars more to up the memory from 2gb to 4gb or 6gb, so it can be a bit more responsive. <br /> <br /> That brings up another point- netbooks, or any atom based processors computer, are capped to how much memory they can have(I forget if its 2gb max or 4 gb). While 2gb is fine for running mt4, but I can see it get really sluggish if you start opening more than one application. <br /> <br /> But if your budget is absolutely limited to 200 dollars, or that range, it will be fine, but the screen will bite after awhile, however the system is a joy to carry around the city to work at a Coffee shop or where ever, since its small, lightweight(mine weighs 1.7 pounds) and has good battery life(the one you picked has a 6 cell, on a netbook that will last 6 hours), so you don&#039;t have to fight for a plug. <br /> <br /> Another alternative is getting that Amazon Kindle Fire tablet when it comes out in November,for the same price and use a program like gotomypc(there a free one like it, and I just forgot the name of it), and you can control it from there, but you would kind of chunky to use.</div>

 

[CarrieW]

<div class="bbWrapper">thanks for the info! <br /> <br /> basically we just bought 2 really nice desktops after using only a laptops for 6 yrs. well actually about 5 laptops in 6 yrs lol (not counting my hubbys either!) we got sick of killing and replacing them and decided to switch. (we were playing wow on them and they were BARLEY able to run it and they were constantly having heat issues)<br /> <br /> I have a bad back which was the reason for the laptops to begin with. I find it very difficult to sit at the desktop for hours(even tho I use it from the couch not a deskchair) I need to go lay down and put my feet up. this has been hindering my trading because i cant take the desktop to bed with me. I end up closing trades that need to stay open which costs me money.<br /> <br /> mostly I will still use the desktop for most things but just wanted to get something cheap and small that I can use to keep an eye on things when I can no longer sit upright...(the cheaper it is the easier it is to convience the hubby to go get it for me lol) I can see how the screen would be an issue but I could plug it into my tv in my room and switch to the usb setting on the tv during commercials!</div>

 

[Udine]

<div class="bbWrapper">Hi CarrieW,<br /> <br /> Sorry to here about the physical problems.<br /> <br /> I think a vital piece of equipment for the professional trader nobody thinks of is ......... the chiar.<br /> <br /> You should look at the Aeron of Herman Miller or Freedom chair from Humanscale, just google.<br /> <br /> When you are sitting so many hours in front of your pc you need a perfect chair.<br /> <br /> Green pips.<br /> <br /> Udine</div>

 

[CarrieW]

<div class="bbWrapper">thanks for the advice udine. My husband used to install office furniture so I actually have a herman miller chair. if I were to sit at the desk with the chair I wouldnt last even nearly as long as I do now. its not the choice of my furniture, its my back! <br /> <br /> right now I actually use the couch. its the best most comfortable place that I can be sitting upright. I have a collection of cushions and pillows that go from place to place with me lol. My back is just very bad and no matter how comfortable I am eventually after hours of being upright it just does me in. I do stay out here as long as I can but sometimes my back just doesnt cooperate. <br /> <br /> basically I have my desktop on my coffee table, I have a laptop cushion that I use for the mouse and keyboard on my lap and the moniter is just in front of where I sit with the hard drive behind it. Its almost as if I am already using a laptop! I just cant take it with me when I have to go lay down...<br /> <br /> it is very mentally frustrating to be alert and awake and in pain, knowing that in your brain you want to be trading but that you just physically can not.</div>

 

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[Udine]

<div class="bbWrapper">CarrieW,<br /> <br /> you&#039;re lucky with the chair, but I&#039;m sorry to hear it doesn &#039;t solve your problem.<br /> <br /> Looks like you would need a laptop after all. I am working from a laptop and trading on the same laptop. I work fulltime as as sales manager in the furniture industry and do the trading on the side. This enables me also to trade when I am travelling for work <img src="/community/imgs/emoticons/em-wink.png" class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=";)" title="Wink ;)" data-shortname=";)" />)<br /> <br /> I would look for a laptop with 15.6&quot; monitor, as the 10.1&quot; is definately too small. If you want to treat the fx as a business to start your financial empire you need to try to work only with the best material.<br /> <br /> In the future I will be looking at a laptop from digitaltigers or something along that line.<br /> <br /> But in the end it all depends on the budget, but try to find a decent one with a bigger monitor, there is nothing worse to check a chart on a 10.1 &quot;. I know, I tried....<br /> <br /> I hope in the meantime you have scored some green pips today ??<br /> <br /> Take care and have a great weekend.<br /> <br /> Udine</div>

 

[CarrieW]

<div class="bbWrapper">I have been bouncing around a bit still but as of right now I am up about 200pips for the day. I dont usually have a problem getting the pips early in the day. my problem is giving them back as the day goes on, lol. <br /> <br /> I am trying to find that fine line between being green and giving it all back... I have been up n down $10-$15bucks a day all week(on $50)... ending the day with just about the same amount I have started with. so I am gaining and losing tons and tons of pips every day.(each pip is worth about 1cent in my trades) very frustrating but I know once I figure this situation out I will begin keeping my greens and not giving them back!<br /> <br /> the hubby is really giving me a hard time about wanting to refill my account so I am just going to continue with what I have and hopefully gain it back up to $100 again.(and then of course continue to grow from there) if I do manage to blow it up I am just going to refill it wether he likes it or not(he can protest all he wants but I do have my own money that I have some say over)<br /> <br /> he is still smoking ciggarettes spending $50 a week(I quit) so I dont feel guilty blowing $100bucks in 6 months trying to do something constructive! <br /> <br /> hes crazy he would rather spend $50 a week on cigarettes and hundreds of dollars on other crap that will never ever make anything. he doesnt see those things as a waste. but total so far I have invested 350bucks into trading(not counting about $300 in materials) since 2006. and hes complaining about me wanting $50 more bucks in my account lol he makes no sense sometimes! <br /> <br /> no matter what I say or how I explain it he just doesnt get it sometimes lol.</div>

 

[Udine]

<div class="bbWrapper">If you start the day with bagging a nice quantity of green pips, like today, set a daily target and close the tradestation or continue on demo.<br /> <br /> If I understand correctly, your account is $50, you gained today 200 pips @ 0,01 which is $ 2, so you gained 4 % today... FANTASTIC !! You haveto keep the greed factor under control <img src="/community/imgs/emoticons/em-wink.png" class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=";)" title="Wink ;)" data-shortname=";)" /><br /> <br /> The issue with fx is to get consistent, if you know that when you start up your tradestationin the morning you can get 1 - 2 % every day, you have got it made !!!<br /> <br /> $ 1.000 with 1 % / day compounding is in 36 months about 1 million !!!<br /> <br /> Don&#039;t try to go for the homeruns, go for consistency. Be a bricklayer: everyday 1% on top of 1% !! This will give you confidence in your system, and enables you to increase your lotsize with the growth of the account.<br /> <br /> If I were you I would close for today with the +4% in the account. (Hell, here in Italy the banks don&#039;t give that for 1 year, and you just made that in one day !!). This way you enter in the weekend with a good feeling and eager to get back on monday ....<img src="/community/imgs/emoticons/em-wink.png" class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=";)" title="Wink ;)" data-shortname=";)" />) This way you will start to like Mondays !!<br /> <br /> Keep a trading log and see the progress your making, this will keep you disciplined and focussed. (At least it is working for me). <br /> <br /> Besides if you can show to your hubby that your account is steadily growing and show him the numbers, you can tell him that the growth goes faster if you add some to the account every month. Soon you will be able to pay for the &quot;crap&quot; he is buying.<br /> <br /> CarrieW, if you can make so many pips, get the focus and discipline in order and you are on your way.<br /> <br /> <a href="https://www.thefastlaneforum.com/community/attachments/mantra-pdf.2591/" target="_blank">View attachment mantra.pdf</a><br /> <br /> Read this, it might get you on track.<br /> <br /> Keep it up and a great weekend!!<br /> <br /> Udine</div>

 

[CarrieW]

<div class="bbWrapper">I think I need a support group! <br /> <br /> I can trade for an hour or 2 and be up alot (like I said each day I have been up 10-15 dollars by noon) by going in and out of trades. then for some reason even tho I know I should stop, I cant keep myself from trading lol. <br /> <br /> If I can make 10bucks a day instead of 2 why should I stop at 2? the problem is tho I get 10 and im like well if i just made 10 i must be able to make more and thats where I get into trouble... I have been beginning trading around 630am and am usually green untill about 10-11am ish. thats when I either lose it or gain only slightly more. <br /> <br /> I really just need someone/something to stop me at that point just before I start to trade into the reversals.<br /> which is what seems to happen every afternoon between 11-5 <br /> <br /> I end up closing out my trades in the afternoon for a loss using up the profits I made earlier (instead of sticking with the stop losses I am still convinced it will go back my way and try to wait it out untill I hit my starting point which has been $53)and well after I can no longer monitor it/loose anymore I exit and then things go back my way and I feel I am missing out on pips and get mad at myself for taking the loss.<br /> <br /> I am really trying to find my pattern of the switch over that I am apparently missing to be able to stop just before I give it all back... <br /> <br /> I have continually done everything I have said I wasnt going to do... they say the first step in fixing something is to identify the problem.. well damn it I already did that! I still even tho I know better cant stop. and every frickin day I end up exactly where I started. then I want to trade again in the next session to make it over again and I cant cause my back hurts. even if I did trade then I would likely still give it back each session like I do on the morning one. i really need to fix that.<br /> <br /> ive been caught in this cycle for awhile. i really think i need to set a time limit rather then a pip limit? i guess none of it matters if I am not going to listen to my own rules that really is what I need to work on.</div>

 

[CarrieW]

<div class="bbWrapper">maybe someone who posts those reports on their accounts could help me.<br /> <br /> i dont know how to do that. the ones where you show the profits n losses and your running balance and everything... is that a report from mt4 or is that something you guys are making yourself? <br /> <br /> the only thing i have seen in my account is a line by line trade by trade list in account history. and it only seems to go back a month or so. id imagine they have past ones available somewhere also? <br /> <br /> if someone would point me in the right direction I would appreciate it!</div>

 

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[Udine]

<div class="bbWrapper">CarrieW,<br /> <br /> When I read your trading hours, it is obviously that you get your profits during the Frankfurt and London open. Normally this lasts until the first two hours after the open. Then it gets slow until the New York open.<br /> <br /> Maybe you should write down all your past trades in an excel with entry and exit time and see if this holds up also for your trades. If this is true, maybe you should trade only the first two hours after each opening. This would also be less strain on your back.....<br /> <br /> If you have a working system, which you obviously have, does <b>NOT</b> mean that you can trade it always. You have to be like a sniper and wait for the best set up possible to give you the highest probaility to get your target<img src="/community/imgs/emoticons/em-wink.png" class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=";)" title="Wink ;)" data-shortname=";)" /><br /> <br /> Make also a list of all the money you have given back this week, jut to give yourself a reason to change your trading style, in order not to give everything back.<br /> <br /> With $ 50 and +3.4% / day in 15 months you would have 1 million. I know this is theory, but it is just to give you an idea of the money you are throwing away, when you are not disciplined and focussed. A piplimit is useless, go for %. <br /> <br /> Eg. this week gave me 84 pips, in 14 trades (14 wins, 0 loss), but it resulted in +23% to the account. I care about the %, not the number of pips. And the only important thing is to keep them !!<br /> <br /> Green pips.<br /> <br /> Udine</div>

 

[linny75]

<div class="bbWrapper"><b>Hi carrie</b><br /> <br /> <blockquote data-attributes="" data-quote="CarrieW" data-source="post: 179015" class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-title"> <a href="/community/goto/post?id=179015" class="bbCodeBlock-sourceJump" rel="nofollow" data-xf-click="attribution" data-content-selector="#post-179015">CarrieW said:</a> </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-content"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandContent js-expandContent "> I think I need a support group! <br /> <br /> I can trade for an hour or 2 and be up alot (like I said each day I have been up 10-15 dollars by noon) by going in and out of trades. then for some reason even tho I know I should stop, I cant keep myself from trading lol. <br /> <br /> If I can make 10bucks a day instead of 2 why should I stop at 2? the problem is tho I get 10 and im like well if i just made 10 i must be able to make more and thats where I get into trouble... I have been beginning trading around 630am and am usually green untill about 10-11am ish. thats when I either lose it or gain only slightly more. <br /> <br /> I really just need someone/something to stop me at that point just before I start to trade into the reversals.<br /> which is what seems to happen every afternoon between 11-5 <br /> <br /> I end up closing out my trades in the afternoon for a loss using up the profits I made earlier (instead of sticking with the stop losses I am still convinced it will go back my way and try to wait it out untill I hit my starting point which has been $53)and well after I can no longer monitor it/loose anymore I exit and then things go back my way and I feel I am missing out on pips and get mad at myself for taking the loss.<br /> <br /> I am really trying to find my pattern of the switch over that I am apparently missing to be able to stop just before I give it all back... <br /> <br /> I have continually done everything I have said I wasnt going to do... they say the first step in fixing something is to identify the problem.. well damn it I already did that! I still even tho I know better cant stop. and every frickin day I end up exactly where I started. then I want to trade again in the next session to make it over again and I cant cause my back hurts. even if I did trade then I would likely still give it back each session like I do on the morning one. i really need to fix that.<br /> <br /> ive been caught in this cycle for awhile. i really think i need to set a time limit rather then a pip limit? i guess none of it matters if I am not going to listen to my own rules that really is what I need to work on. </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandLink js-expandLink"><a role="button" tabindex="0">Click to expand...</a></div> </div> </blockquote><br /> Hi Carrie, I completely understand where you are coming from, I have the same issue, and you may be relieved to hear that it is widespread among day traders.<br /> <br /> The problem is that you may start off trading with discipline, but after a certain period of time spent watching the charts, something else happens, it&#039;s almost like going into a hypnotic trance. <br /> You conscious mind takes a back seat and you start doing trades that you would never have done at the beginning of the session.<br /> <br /> That is the reason not try to go from $2 to $10, it&#039;s to protect yourself from the psychological meltdown that you will not be able to help, theoretically of course it&#039;s possible to go from $2 to 10 but in practice it doesn&#039;t work because you are not a robot, you can&#039;t trade the same after 3 hours as you did after 30 minutes.<br /> <br /> I have actually created a website around this topic <br /> <br /> <a href="http://www.selfawaretrader.com" target="_blank" class="link link--external" rel="nofollow ugc noopener">Self Aware Trader</a><br /> <br /> if you are interested i would be happy to partner up with you to hold each other accountable .<br /> <br /> all the best</div>

 

[Udine]

<div class="bbWrapper">Those detailed account statements are something of MT4 that creates all that for us. Which tradestation do you use??<br /> <br /> IF your&#039;s does not have this, you will have to make it by hand in excel, as it will give you very valuable information.<br /> <br /> Udine</div>

 

[CarrieW]

<div class="bbWrapper">I do feel a little better after reading linnys and udines posts. I really do appreciate all of the support and information. I have alot of things I need to reassess and rules to perfect and actually follow. <br /> <br /> I have no idea how to print or see any of the things you guys have posted in reguards to the account information lol. <br /> <br /> I use ibfx and whatever their version is of mt4. it looks like its version 4.0 build 402. if thats not the info on the tradestation you meant let me know lol.<br /> <br /> The only good thing about not being able to trade as much as Id like is that it almost forces me to think about other things related to forex to try to figure out whats been going on. your last few posts have put things into perpesptive and I want to relook at everything I have down to reflect this new information.</div>