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should we really help everybody?

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prince1234

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I have a question that whenever i see or help anybody a question always come in mind. Does he really need help? or Do i really should help? this is because I don't think we should help everybody if we help anyone he will not think to inprove himself. Then again he will come next time to take help. for ex(some homeless begger) if you help them and give food the next day they will comeback for help and then it will become habit. Are we really helping them? they will never try to inprove their life. According to me we should always help who really need us like homeless child, old persons etc not everybody.
 
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I like the line:

“Help the people in motion.”
(Amy Hoy)
 

robertwills

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I have a question that whenever i see or help anybody a question always come in mind. Does he really need help? or Do i really should help? this is because I don't think we should help everybody if we help anyone he will not think to inprove himself. Then again he will come next time to take help. for ex(some homeless begger) if you help them and give food the next day they will comeback for help and then it will become habit. Are we really helping them? they will never try to inprove their life. According to me we should always help who really need us like homeless child, old persons etc not everybody.
Give a man a fish feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish feed him for a lifetime.
 

SteveO

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This was my response to a thread on the same topic about 13 years ago.


The main point of this thread is with regards to beggars. I agree with the general discussion that handing money over to people asking on the street is not the proper thing to do.

There are some people that just don't have the ability to sort life out. Even with handouts from the government. It is real difficult to even figure out a bus schedule. Daily activities that most of us take for granted are a major burden to them.

There are people that cannot figure out how to use a cell phone. Can't count money...

There is not a way to teach them how to function the way you and I do. They get left behind in life and society does not know how to deal with them.

Mental illness is easy to spot. People tend to stay away from them because they are unpredictable.

How do you help them?

I grew up in a poor area. I knew a guy that was tall, good looking, and had a pretty normal life. In his early teens, he developed a brain tumor. By the age of 18, he had gone through a couple of brain surgeries and had lost one of his eyes. His mental capacity was now at about the level of an 8 year old.

Because of the brain problems, he was not able to use one side of his body very well. He dragged one of his feet when he walked. He was hideous to look at.

He had siezures regularly. Sometimes people would call the police because they did not know what was going on and he would end up in jail instead of the hospital. He once had a seizure in church and the police took him to jail from there. He was homeless and would sleep in old ratty motels or find abandoned houses.

His bitterness toward the world would get the best of him sometimes. He could not formulate sentences. He knew what he wanted to say but was unable to find words. People would give him a hard time due to his appearance and he would lash out... and end up in jail again.

He had a tender heart and a soul but the world was cruel to him. Everywhere he went, people would stare. He would get escorted out of restaurants and other public places.

He did not shower regulary. The coolness of the water would send him into siezures.

Through all this, he continued to maintain a life to the best of his ability. I helped him get an apartment. Everytime he moved, I helped him. When he needed something, I would help him get it. He did my yardwork for me. Even with his physical problems, he was strong as a bull.

When society did him an injustice, I would stand up for him.

He was always outdoors and in the sun. That did him in. He had a skin graph on his face that covered his eye socket. The graph was taken from the inside of his leg. He developed melanoma on that skin.

He slowly got weaker and was not able to move around very well. He never gave up hope. His family was informed. His sister showed up to visit him in the last couple days of his life.

I took him outside for a walk in a wheelchair. It was the last time that he saw daylight...

There were only five people at his funeral. Although he came from a large family, only one of his blood relatives attended. It was a sad life for him.

This is where my soft spot comes from.
 
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thechosen1

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This was my response to a thread on the same topic about 13 years ago.


The main point of this thread is with regards to beggars. I agree with the general discussion that handing money over to people asking on the street is not the proper thing to do.

There are some people that just don't have the ability to sort life out. Even with handouts from the government. It is real difficult to even figure out a bus schedule. Daily activities that most of us take for granted are a major burden to them.

There are people that cannot figure out how to use a cell phone. Can't count money...

There is not a way to teach them how to function the way you and I do. They get left behind in life and society does not know how to deal with them.

Mental illness is easy to spot. People tend to stay away from them because they are unpredictable.

How do you help them?

I grew up in a poor area. I knew a guy that was tall, good looking, and had a pretty normal life. In his early teens, he developed a brain tumor. By the age of 18, he had gone through a couple of brain surgeries and had lost one of his eyes. His mental capacity was now at about the level of an 8 year old.

Because of the brain problems, he was not able to use one side of his body very well. He dragged one of his feet when he walked. He was hideous to look at.

He had siezures regularly. Sometimes people would call the police because they did not know what was going on and he would end up in jail instead of the hospital. He once had a seizure in church and the police took him to jail from there. He was homeless and would sleep in old ratty motels or find abandoned houses.

His bitterness toward the world would get the best of him sometimes. He could not formulate sentences. He knew what he wanted to say but was unable to find words. People would give him a hard time due to his appearance and he would lash out... and end up in jail again.

He had a tender heart and a soul but the world was cruel to him. Everywhere he went, people would stare. He would get escorted out of restaurants and other public places.

He did not shower regulary. The coolness of the water would send him into siezures.

Through all this, he continued to maintain a life to the best of his ability. I helped him get an apartment. Everytime he moved, I helped him. When he needed something, I would help him get it. He did my yardwork for me. Even with his physical problems, he was strong as a bull.

When society did him an injustice, I would stand up for him.

He was always outdoors and in the sun. That did him in. He had a skin graph on his face that covered his eye socket. The graph was taken from the inside of his leg. He developed melanoma on that skin.

He slowly got weaker and was not able to move around very well. He never gave up hope. His family was informed. His sister showed up to visit him in the last couple days of his life.

I took him outside for a walk in a wheelchair. It was the last time that he saw daylight...

There were only five people at his funeral. Although he came from a large family, only one of his blood relatives attended. It was a sad life for him.

This is where my soft spot comes from.
Wow, that is so incredible... It just reminds me of how lucky, lucky, lucky all of us are who don't have those issues.

It is great that you have helped this guy. You can't help everyone, of course, but it is so good to do so when you can.

When I encounter someone like this regularly, I wrack my brain with ideas on how to really try and help them in a way that will make a big impact on them and help them more than once. Barring that, talking to and listening to someone can be just as good as anything...especially when they've gone through this much struggle.

We are all so lucky!
 

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Wow, that is so incredible... It just reminds me of how lucky, lucky, lucky all of us are who don't have those issues.

It is great that you have helped this guy. You can't help everyone, of course, but it is so good to do so when you can.

When I encounter someone like this regularly, I wrack my brain with ideas on how to really try and help them in a way that will make a big impact on them and help them more than once. Barring that, talking to and listening to someone can be just as good as anything...especially when they've gone through this much struggle.

We are all so lucky!
I don't hand out money to people begging on the street. I do watch the shadows for people that look like they need help. Those are the ones that will get a ride, money, or food. Most people won't even talk to these souls as they can be scary. Never had any incidents of violence although a couple of them yelled at me. I helped them anyway. It was soooo obvious that they needed it.

Had one guy that was cussing and yelling at people in a busy pedestrian area. I was with a group that got scared and took off the other direction. I walked over asked if he was ok. He calmly said "yes, i'm fine". Then he quietly walked away. I think he just wanted acknowledgement as a person.
 
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ElleMg

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I'm guilty of trying to help everyone who shares their issues. I see in them what I saw in myself and understand if they're willing to open up, part of them wants a 'solution'. I know I've accomplished somethiny when they stop arguing with my advice. Hopefully my advice will be the tipping point for one or two people to think outside of the box they've trapped themselves in, or to give them a boost of inspiration when they do finally manage to wake up.

I'm too nice, I know
 

OMJ

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this is because I don't think we should help everybody if we help anyone he will not think to inprove himself. Then again he will come next time to take help.
You mean like you asking all these questions daily?

You've made 39 posts on this forum.
Every single one of them on a thread you created.
Every thread you started is a question asked many times here and the answers are easily searchable.

You haven't even posted you've read TMF .

You can't say you don't know how, we all get the same welcome messages instructing us what to do and what to read first.

What does that say about you?

Double standards?
Don't help everyone, but help me.

Lazy?
It's easier to ask than search, they love to write for self edification anyway.

Self absorbed?
Why post on other threads, that would take attention from my questions, besides I'm not in the habit of helping others.

Incompetent?
I don't know how to use the forum search facility and I'm not bright enough to ask.
I mean, how could my question have possibly been asked before?

The screen name Prince, I'm beginning to see why.

P.s. you're now set to ignore, along with a few others on this thread.
 
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ShamanKing

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This was my response to a thread on the same topic about 13 years ago.


The main point of this thread is with regards to beggars. I agree with the general discussion that handing money over to people asking on the street is not the proper thing to do.

There are some people that just don't have the ability to sort life out. Even with handouts from the government. It is real difficult to even figure out a bus schedule. Daily activities that most of us take for granted are a major burden to them.

There are people that cannot figure out how to use a cell phone. Can't count money...

There is not a way to teach them how to function the way you and I do. They get left behind in life and society does not know how to deal with them.

Mental illness is easy to spot. People tend to stay away from them because they are unpredictable.

How do you help them?

I grew up in a poor area. I knew a guy that was tall, good looking, and had a pretty normal life. In his early teens, he developed a brain tumor. By the age of 18, he had gone through a couple of brain surgeries and had lost one of his eyes. His mental capacity was now at about the level of an 8 year old.

Because of the brain problems, he was not able to use one side of his body very well. He dragged one of his feet when he walked. He was hideous to look at.

He had siezures regularly. Sometimes people would call the police because they did not know what was going on and he would end up in jail instead of the hospital. He once had a seizure in church and the police took him to jail from there. He was homeless and would sleep in old ratty motels or find abandoned houses.

His bitterness toward the world would get the best of him sometimes. He could not formulate sentences. He knew what he wanted to say but was unable to find words. People would give him a hard time due to his appearance and he would lash out... and end up in jail again.

He had a tender heart and a soul but the world was cruel to him. Everywhere he went, people would stare. He would get escorted out of restaurants and other public places.

He did not shower regulary. The coolness of the water would send him into siezures.

Through all this, he continued to maintain a life to the best of his ability. I helped him get an apartment. Everytime he moved, I helped him. When he needed something, I would help him get it. He did my yardwork for me. Even with his physical problems, he was strong as a bull.

When society did him an injustice, I would stand up for him.

He was always outdoors and in the sun. That did him in. He had a skin graph on his face that covered his eye socket. The graph was taken from the inside of his leg. He developed melanoma on that skin.

He slowly got weaker and was not able to move around very well. He never gave up hope. His family was informed. His sister showed up to visit him in the last couple days of his life.

I took him outside for a walk in a wheelchair. It was the last time that he saw daylight...

There were only five people at his funeral. Although he came from a large family, only one of his blood relatives attended. It was a sad life for him.

This is where my soft spot comes from.

You are a good man Steve.
 

WJK

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I have a question that whenever i see or help anybody a question always come in mind. Does he really need help? or Do i really should help? this is because I don't think we should help everybody if we help anyone he will not think to inprove himself. Then again he will come next time to take help. for ex(some homeless begger) if you help them and give food the next day they will comeback for help and then it will become habit. Are we really helping them? they will never try to inprove their life. According to me we should always help who really need us like homeless child, old persons etc not everybody.
I help people every day. But they must be trying to help themselves somewhere in the equation.
 

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I choose to help people who are already helping themselves.

This could be a homeless person on the bus who I see asking for employment.
It could also be a friend or family member who is in the beginning phases of building a business.

However there are also (former) friends and low-income family members who ask for my help. Yet they sit on their a$$ watching news all day and don't change a damn thing in their daily activities and decision making.

Why should I help the latter?
 

thechosen1

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I choose to help people who are already helping themselves.

This could be a homeless person on the bus who I see asking for employment.
It could also be a friend or family member who is in the beginning phases of building a business.

However there are also (former) friends and low-income family members who ask for my help. Yet they sit on their a$$ watching news all day and don't change a damn thing in their daily activities and decision making.

Why should I help the latter?
It’s up to you. Some people you can’t help, and they will just leech off of you forever thanklessly, complaining the whole time. It is sad, but since you are a human and not an angel, it is acceptable to move on for your own good...

I have an aunt like that. She’s had 7 husbands and 7 divorces. My grandma has bought her 5 cars in the last 20-30 years and she’s wrecked them all (along with getting several DUI's and DWI's). IDK why the grandma keeps buying her stuff when she just destroys it and is rude to her and ungrateful, but that Is up to her.

This aunt is 100% capable of working a good job but chooses to live on government unemployment checks while begging said grandmother for extra cash for the latest phone, trips to the nail salon, etc.

Any time she gets a good offer she turns it down because she’d “lose her government benefits.”
 
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Antifragile

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@OMJ - you are a forum detective! Regardless of the irrelevance of someone like the OP and their lack of forum etiquette…

I’ve enjoyed @SteveO post very much. There was a time when we bought a few buildings that were in a DT impoverished area. SROs - Single Room Occupancy. Think $375/mo rent per room, all paid by government to landlord because the tenants would not be trusted with cash.

We had hoarders, prostitutes, drug dealers, various mental issues - you get It. And because we bought these from foreclosure in court, we promised to provide breakfasts to all tenants. I had some help and at first we handled it ourselves, then I “employed” one of tenants who was “normal”.

So many lessons learned about the world I knew nothing about. I am grateful for those lessons. One guy was constantly defecating in his room. No, not in the washroom, in his room. He was also the same person who swept streets every morning and lunch, keeping them tidy. Local meat store owner paid his rent. This person was suffering from complications after cancer treatment and mental health. We found him a new home that had his own bathroom.

The things you see when you open your eyes to the world that you don’t normally touch can either be a downer or an uplifting experience.

The “normal” guy who I hired to prepare breakfasts was constantly stealing form me. I knew that. I budgeted for that. And I knew I did all I could to help.

A few decades ago I also worked at a food bank. I learned that people who don’t look poor could be starving.

This thread made me think back, to my early days as an immigrant with nothing but a dream.

Conclusion? Don’t judge. Try to help if you can.
 

OMJ

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you are a forum detective!
Nope, I just see his posts every single day and I don't have the memory of a goldfish.
But I won't see them anymore, he's on ignore now.
Conclusion? Don’t judge. Try to help if you can.
Yeah, my decade plus in education was because I'm a sado-masochist and just in it for the fat paychecks.
 

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Nope, I just see his posts every single day and I don't have the memory of a goldfish.
But I won't see them anymore, he's on ignore now.
I guess I don’t pay enough attention. I am like a goldfish unless I know the poster.
Yeah, my decade plus in education was because I'm a sado-masochist and just in it for the fat paychecks.

I don‘t get this response. What’s your background? What does it have to do with my opinion on helping others?
 

WJK

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@OMJ - you are a forum detective! Regardless of the irrelevance of someone like the OP and their lack of forum etiquette…

I’ve enjoyed @SteveO post very much. There was a time when we bought a few buildings that were in a DT impoverished area. SROs - Single Room Occupancy. Think $375/mo rent per room, all paid by government to landlord because the tenants would not be trusted with cash.

We had hoarders, prostitutes, drug dealers, various mental issues - you get It. And because we bought these from foreclosure in court, we promised to provide breakfasts to all tenants. I had some help and at first we handled it ourselves, then I “employed” one of tenants who was “normal”.

So many lessons learned about the world I knew nothing about. I am grateful for those lessons. One guy was constantly defecating in his room. No, not in the washroom, in his room. He was also the same person who swept streets every morning and lunch, keeping them tidy. Local meat store owner paid his rent. This person was suffering from complications after cancer treatment and mental health. We found him a new home that had his own bathroom.

The things you see when you open your eyes to the world that you don’t normally touch can either be a downer or an uplifting experience.

The “normal” guy who I hired to prepare breakfasts was constantly stealing form me. I knew that. I budgeted for that. And I knew I did all I could to help.

A few decades ago I also worked at a food bank. I learned that people who don’t look poor could be starving.

This thread made me think back, to my early days as an immigrant with nothing but a dream.

Conclusion? Don’t judge. Try to help if you can.
I provide the only group of affordable housing in my community... the only self-service Laundromat... and the only full hook-up RV spaces. I too helped start a shelter years ago for homeless women and their children. I was the Chairman of the board for 5 years. I understand exactly what you are saying about your SROs. It's a tough job, but it sure makes me be more compassionate.
 

OMJ

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I tried to look at your profile and was not able to. Perhaps I am one of the ignored. I feel special. :)
No you're not ignored its just my profile settings so I don't get PM.

Until today I didn't ignore anyone, except Robert Wills.
I don‘t get this response. What’s your background? What does it have to do with my opinion on helping others?

Conclusion? Don’t judge. Try to help if you can.
I thought you may have thought I was judging and not helping.

I've taught at every level from preschool to postgraduate,
I'm as helpful as they come, it's just that I teach them how to fish, or slap them in the face with a fish.
No one gets a free fish.

Reminds me when my Chinese elementary students asked "can I go to the toilet?"
"I don't know, can you?" I replied

Of course I had to go through the whole charade of demonstrating the difference between permission and ability, but eventually they got it.

Only had to do it a couple of dozen times per class and there was only 24 classes in the school.

1000 kids, I knew them all by name, although in my first year it was like being a rockstar, all these kids know my name but I've no idea what's theirs.

Jesus, what am I doing, talking about myself like this, I usually leave that to those people.

Guess I'll tell you the McDonald's three large fries lesson another day.
Spoiler, they're not free, neither are the flies.
 

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No you're not ignored its just my profile settings so I don't get PM.

Until today I didn't ignore anyone, except Robert Wills.



I thought you may have thought I was judging and not helping.

I've taught at every level from preschool to postgraduate,
I'm as helpful as they come, it's just that I teach them how to fish, or slap them in the face with a fish.
No one gets a free fish.

Reminds me when my Chinese elementary students asked "can I go to the toilet?"
"I don't know, can you?" I replied

Of course I had to go through the whole charade of demonstrating the difference between permission and ability, but eventually they got it.

Only had to do it a couple of dozen times per class and there was only 24 classes in the school.

1000 kids, I knew them all by name, although in my first year it was like being a rockstar, all these kids know my name but I've no idea what's theirs.

Jesus, what am I doing, talking about myself like this, I usually leave that to those people.

Guess I'll tell you the McDonald's three large fries lesson another day.
Spoiler, they're not free, neither are the flies.
Your right. To help or not help is a balancing act. I don't want to enable anyone and I don't want to be used. But, I help a lot of people. Sometimes they do me wrong. Other times my help makes a big difference in their lives. I never know what the results will be.

So, I approach unknown situations one step at a time. I try giving a little and then I see what happens. If it's positive, I try adding a little more. Again I wait to see the results.

I also rely heavily on my gut. I like to look the person in the eye. I can tell a lot by simply having a conversation. If I can get them talking, they'll tell me everything I need to know about them.

Like I'd said before here on the forum. If you give anything to a person who doesn't feel that they deserve that gift, they will hate you for it. And they will tear it up. I counter this human reaction by asking them for a favor in exchange for my gift. It can be a very small immediate favor or something in the future. I don't want anyone to trade their sense of personal dignity for something that they need.
 
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prince1234

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You mean like you asking all these questions daily?

You've made 39 posts on this forum.
Every single one of them on a thread you created.
Every thread you started is a question asked many times here and the answers are easily searchable.

You haven't even posted you've read TMF .

You can't say you don't know how, we all get the same welcome messages instructing us what to do and what to read first.

What does that say about you?

Double standards?
Don't help everyone, but help me.

Lazy?
It's easier to ask than search, they love to write for self edification anyway.

Self absorbed?
Why post on other threads, that would take attention from my questions, besides I'm not in the habit of helping others.

Incompetent?
I don't know how to use the forum search facility and I'm not bright enough to ask.
I mean, how could my question have possibly been asked before?

The screen name Prince, I'm beginning to see why.

P.s. you're now set to ignore, along with a few others on this thread.
@OMJ
I know i don't post threads on anyothers. It dosen't mean i don't read anyothers thread but i don't read every threads. It not because i want to maintain standard or take attention even in real life i never wanted to take other's attention. It's because i read post about which i don't know anything(crypto minning, buisness related topics, sales etc) . So how could i post on thread about which i don't know anything.
It dosen't mean to me that i set to ignore. I have only came on this forum to learn from a real knowledgeble people.
actually I have posted that i have read TMF . but not dedicated threads. almost everyone who is on forum had read it.
i know some of the question that i asked are easily searchable. but when i first started this forum it was many days before my first thread. i didn't find some of my questions. and i admit that it's my mistake that i should first search and if i don't get answer then i should ask. i will not do it from the next time but i do it because whenever any question come into mind i can't think anyother things.
 
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Ing

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When someone asks me for money, I make an offer: I let him mow my lawn and pay him.

I allways mow my lawn myself...
 

OMJ

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@OMJ
I know i don't post threads on anyothers. It dosen't mean i don't read anyothers thread but i don't read every threads. It not because i want to maintain standard or take attention even in real life i never wanted to take other's attention. It's because i read post about which i don't know anything(crypto minning, buisness related topics, sales etc) . So how could i post on thread about which i don't know anything.
It dosen't mean to me that i set to ignore. I have only came on this forum to learn from a real knowledgeble people.
actually I have posted that i have read TMF . but not dedicated threads. almost everyone who is on forum had read it.
i know some of the question that i asked are easily searchable. but when i first started this forum it was many days before my first thread. i didn't find some of my questions. and i admit that it's my mistake that i should first search and if i don't get answer then i should ask. i will not do it from the next time but i do it because whenever any question come into mind i can't think anyother things.
Instead of posting a new thread for every question, how about you start a progress thread, then everything's in one place and you can document your journey from complete beginner to business mogul.

People love a good epic tale, they'll follow your story, answer questions, offer advice, encourage you in your darkest days and congratulate your successes.
 

OMJ

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@prince1234 test your search skills, find WJK' s post where she talks about being a trophy wife and post the link here.
 

SteveO

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It wasn't the trophy wife part. It was the other very insulting statement. That was why the mods deleted it.
 

Mattie

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I have a question that whenever i see or help anybody a question always come in mind. Does he really need help? or Do i really should help? this is because I don't think we should help everybody if we help anyone he will not think to inprove himself. Then again he will come next time to take help. for ex(some homeless begger) if you help them and give food the next day they will comeback for help and then it will become habit. Are we really helping them? they will never try to inprove their life. According to me we should always help who really need us like homeless child, old persons etc not everybody.
The key for me is if someone is taking the initiative for self-improvement. If they're not really a life long learner number one, i know already they may have a closed mind. I might still listen to them and observe what they're doing, but if they're not taking in the initiative, i do not bother.

When you just help people for the sake of helping them with no goal or purpose to their life, this is when they're enabled.

There is nothing wrong with people who are homeless. I used to work in a few pantries. Normally there is a system that keeps records. Dates, times, and what help they've received. Limited to a certain amount per month.

Usually they do have to have an assessment. I did an internship where I had five pages to ask questions, then fill it all out on the computer, and then send the information to local non-profits, organizations, agencies, and they then read the report. They also have to tell their whole story, show the bills, show the steps their taking to get out of the situations.

Education
Family counseling
Addiction/Alcohol Rehab
Self counseling
Job training/education on resumes

This is just a few, but they do not just get help, they have to be actually doing something to improve their life or they get cut out of the programs.

You do have those that try to beat the system like any system. This is why they normally keep records.

This is an "old system" from the 70's and doesn't promote Self-governance. Not to bring politics up in here, but if you go to you tube and listen to Reagan and the Welfare System, he speaks of his father and how his father was talking about when it actually started that people went on it because they were promoting it and they naturally ended up gravitating towards it because it was easier.

I know this is a generational problem that is passed on generation to generation from the Traditionalists, Baby Boomers, Gen X, and Millennial's. It became a lifestyle and mindset passed on generation to generation. There is proof of this.

Did it really start out as helping people or was it created for other reasons?

I know traditionalists sometimes had their own family business and passed it down generation to generation as well.

Traditionalists were a different generation and Era.

The system needs to be changed to a better program, which since I found this forum, it's exactly what they need is M.J.'s books and teach them right off the bat to change their mindset, their belief systems, their theories, and their concepts of why they feel the need to stay in the enabled world of enabling and co-dependency.

The way the system is now, they are allowed to play "Victim" and not pointed to how to life-long learn if they happen to be those who are alternative Introverts and innovators, creatives, and inventors.

They're given the "Conventional" get a G.E.D. or High School diploma, and then conventional get in debt with student loans and sold a "Dream", since if you go to any Bank, they're not going to give these same a loan for a business. They would not qualify on their income. Since it is seen as Education then it is acceptable to be getting in debt.

This is why you have the "Crisis" since Gen X and Millennial's fell for this since 2003.

You really have to evaluate the how the systems work together.

Then ask is this person really lazy or if it is because the systems of non-profits, organizations, agencies, and government branches putting out a lot of red tape, more obstacles, adversity, and getting them caught up in a mess.

Every state is different, every county, and you have the state and federal system.

There's a whole web of restrictions, rules, regulations, policies, procedures, and legal laws mainstream people do not see behind the face value.

When your talking about middle class, they shouldn't really need help other then doing their research, applying, practicing, and doing what we do.

I think Gen X knows the enabling, co-dependency, and addictions/alcoholism can create a lot of situations where we've had to all get out of the unhealthy ways to serve humanity and learn to use it more effectively. We enabled one another growing up, and while we're all about hospitality, customer service, and do things effectively, we still can overly do it.

I think I learned this since 2008-2021 with Millennials to not help them unless it is something they really need help with it, or it enables them from growing, and being self-reliant. Normally they do not like to be helped too much around me, but I might just have the more evolved ones then, then those who are struggling more.

It kind of goes with where your at in your own growth as your clients change with you. Since I'm more about teaching them to be self-reliant, others already know I will help them, but I will not help them if they don't show they are doing something to improve themselves. They know I will listen and hear them and point the way. I still expect them to show through their actions they are moving in the right direction.





 

WJK

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The key for me is if someone is taking the initiative for self-improvement. If they're not really a life long learner number one, i know already they may have a closed mind. I might still listen to them and observe what they're doing, but if they're not taking in the initiative, i do not bother.

When you just help people for the sake of helping them with no goal or purpose to their life, this is when they're enabled.

There is nothing wrong with people who are homeless. I used to work in a few pantries. Normally there is a system that keeps records. Dates, times, and what help they've received. Limited to a certain amount per month.

Usually they do have to have an assessment. I did an internship where I had five pages to ask questions, then fill it all out on the computer, and then send the information to local non-profits, organizations, agencies, and they then read the report. They also have to tell their whole story, show the bills, show the steps their taking to get out of the situations.

Education
Family counseling
Addiction/Alcohol Rehab
Self counseling
Job training/education on resumes

This is just a few, but they do not just get help, they have to be actually doing something to improve their life or they get cut out of the programs.

You do have those that try to beat the system like any system. This is why they normally keep records.

This is an "old system" from the 70's and doesn't promote Self-governance. Not to bring politics up in here, but if you go to you tube and listen to Reagan and the Welfare System, he speaks of his father and how his father was talking about when it actually started that people went on it because they were promoting it and they naturally ended up gravitating towards it because it was easier.

I know this is a generational problem that is passed on generation to generation from the Traditionalists, Baby Boomers, Gen X, and Millennial's. It became a lifestyle and mindset passed on generation to generation. There is proof of this.

Did it really start out as helping people or was it created for other reasons?

I know traditionalists sometimes had their own family business and passed it down generation to generation as well.

Traditionalists were a different generation and Era.

The system needs to be changed to a better program, which since I found this forum, it's exactly what they need is M.J.'s books and teach them right off the bat to change their mindset, their belief systems, their theories, and their concepts of why they feel the need to stay in the enabled world of enabling and co-dependency.

The way the system is now, they are allowed to play "Victim" and not pointed to how to life-long learn if they happen to be those who are alternative Introverts and innovators, creatives, and inventors.

They're given the "Conventional" get a G.E.D. or High School diploma, and then conventional get in debt with student loans and sold a "Dream", since if you go to any Bank, they're not going to give these same a loan for a business. They would not qualify on their income. Since it is seen as Education then it is acceptable to be getting in debt.

This is why you have the "Crisis" since Gen X and Millennial's fell for this since 2003.

You really have to evaluate the how the systems work together.

Then ask is this person really lazy or if it is because the systems of non-profits, organizations, agencies, and government branches putting out a lot of red tape, more obstacles, adversity, and getting them caught up in a mess.

Every state is different, every county, and you have the state and federal system.

There's a whole web of restrictions, rules, regulations, policies, procedures, and legal laws mainstream people do not see behind the face value.

When your talking about middle class, they shouldn't really need help other then doing their research, applying, practicing, and doing what we do.

I think Gen X knows the enabling, co-dependency, and addictions/alcoholism can create a lot of situations where we've had to all get out of the unhealthy ways to serve humanity and learn to use it more effectively. We enabled one another growing up, and while we're all about hospitality, customer service, and do things effectively, we still can overly do it.

I think I learned this since 2008-2021 with Millennials to not help them unless it is something they really need help with it, or it enables them from growing, and being self-reliant. Normally they do not like to be helped too much around me, but I might just have the more evolved ones then, then those who are struggling more.

It kind of goes with where your at in your own growth as your clients change with you. Since I'm more about teaching them to be self-reliant, others already know I will help them, but I will not help them if they don't show they are doing something to improve themselves. They know I will listen and hear them and point the way. I still expect them to show through their actions they are moving in the right direction.
I believe that people who don't work or do something useful lose their dignity. I'm big on people who work hard and productively.
 

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