[Progress] Developing My Sleep Tracker Game

[Plushy]

Hello hello. Welcome to the Desert of Desertion.
You've seen me around, I want to show I walk the walk.

7 Months ago I had an idea and began building an app alone.

3 Weeks ago I read Unscripted and joined this forum. I realized I needed to get my motivation in check and surround myself with good people. I realized, "there's no reason why it should take this long." In those 3 weeks, I finished a huge part of the process just by putting in as many hours as I could programming everyday. I did in 3 weeks more than what took 7 months! I wanted to meet a deadline of September 1.

2 days ago I've onboarded two friends to help me develop it faster, because I realized I couldn't do it alone if I wanted to meet that deadline nor do I have the resources/appetite for risk to hire developers.

I'm still working TOO SLOWLY so even though I don't feel ready, I am going to go ahead and make this thread now.​

I may share more about what this "app" is in the future. The friends I've told the idea to said they love the idea. Of course, the true test is when people vote with their wallets. I have plenty of other ideas in my back pocket, but I'm committed to seeing this first one through. There is a hole in the market for this, and a few have attempted to fulfill it, but I think I can provide massive value in different ways using my unique strengths and interests. Providing massive value also means a lot of work in development. But a true entrepreneur should over-deliver.

Please provide advice if you see there is any way I can develop it faster.
I do have some capital in savings I *could* use to invest if you think it's a good idea, but this app is unproven yet and I am afraid of risk.
And please keep me in check when I am slacking off.

I use the software, "ManicTime" and it keeps track of how long the windows in the IDE I use are active. I'm aiming for 20 hours a week. I'm documenting how long I spend developing in this thread. Just as I lost a lot of weight when I posted my CICO every day on a weight loss forum, I think public accountability is a wonderful tool. I also found out since starting this spreadsheet that it only takes me 10 hours to finish a mechanic, so I estimate it will take about 300-400 hours to finish this app, since there's about 14 mechanics left.

I also recently moved last week so I didn't work so much. I'm living in the location of my dreams and will attend school this fall. It is snowy and rainy here, and I am most productive and happy when it's cloudy. Prior to this I lived in sunny ol' Texas. I want to start classes a published developer.

What to expect on this thread:​

• I will share some quotes and thoughts I have to motivate myself on this thread.
• I will update at least weekly, and possibly more often (1/day) with how many hours I worked.
• I will also talk about the books I'm reading sometimes;
  
  (I won't be too specific about what features I've worked on, but I will post the hours worked)

I recently read "12 Months to a Million" that I see floating around here on the forum, and it makes me burn with passion. Why haven't I been working hard? If I worked really hard for 1 year, I can be free for the rest of my life! And secondly, 12 Months to a Million makes me realize how crucial feedback is. It's made me re-evaluate the timeline, to release it as soon as the features are programmed first; and update the aesthetics later. I originally wanted to release it only when the art is ready for the best first impression, but no reason to do that if the thing itself doesn't work well!



Feel free to roast me if you think this timeline is TOO generous.
I am doing my very best to pare it down to the MVP but also have the unique features up that I haven't seen before.

Just today I've delegated two mechanics to my two friends, and they're waiting on me to finish up a feature by Friday so they can build on that. My philosophy is, I'd rather split the revenue and have a finished thing, than to work on it forever by myself out of pride. I am not going to take a big piece of the pie, I'm just going to make the pie bigger for all of us.

I want to be faster, but I feel like the only way is to work longer! Please keep me on track.

Thank you to whoever mentioned Penzu, I've been using it a bit. Here are some quotes I wrote daily to motivate myself:

"it's hard because it's hard. If it were easy to be an entrepreneur, everyone would do it."

"Trying to find the secret to motivation is actually 'I want things to be easy and convenient' and the secret is it's hard. Acknowledge it's going to be hard and keep going."

"Procrastinating today is borrowing time from tomorrow. You WILL be free one day, and each day you prolong working on your business is a day you take away from your freedom days. Fight every day for your freedom."

You can view entertainment when you're done - actually, there's literally no need for entertainment! 1. You're not trying to cope with an unsatisfactory life, 2. It is a distraction and a time waste

Everyone had to start somewhere, their first app, and so on. So who cares if you've never published one before? time to pop that cherry

The longer you push yourself to do something uncomfortable, the faster you get used to being uncomfortable.

If you start when things are hard, it can only get easier.

Money doesn't care how hard it was or how you feel, money only cares about results

There is an extremely liberating moment when you decide that you are going to do it no matter what. Suddenly you feel MORE powerful not less because you realize no matter what circumstances come your way you can overcome It

Sorry for the long intro! I promise future posts will be shorter.
If you are a programmer / developer too, comment your thread and let's follow each other!

 

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[Plushy]

Wednesday: 1:36 (start of thread)
Some irritating family issues, kept me up late last night.

Thursday: 1:47
I'm was extremely sleep deprived.

I want to do more hours today.

 

[Deleted8v369]

I am also developing an app, and of course software development sucks a lot of time. It seems you are focussing more on doing hard work coding than marketing. More than once I've done loads of work to develop some software or a game, and I would have been better off financially if I'd done a minimum wage job.
I am sorry I can't be of more help. I just want to warn you from experience that throwing loads of energy into software development doesn't necessarily translate into success. You could go and dig a big hole in your garden, too. It'd be hard work, but no one would pay you for it.

Edit: Also, avoid revenue splitting. Nobody is more passionate about your project than you are. In the case that it is a success, you'll lose more than if you'd just paid for it, and if it flops your friends get nothing. If you need a job done, just pay for it as "work for hire" so that you own it outright.

 

[Plushy]

I am also developing an app, and of course software development sucks a lot of time. It seems you are focussing more on doing hard work coding than marketing. More than once I've done loads of work to develop some software or a game, and I would have been better off financially if I'd done a minimum wage job.
I am sorry I can't be of more help. I just want to warn you from experience that throwing loads of energy into software development doesn't necessarily translate into success. You could go and dig a big hole in your garden, too. It'd be hard work, but no one would pay you for it.

Edit: Also, avoid revenue splitting. Nobody is more passionate about your project than you are. In the case that it is a success, you'll lose more than if you'd just paid for it, and if it flops your friends get nothing. If you need a job done, just pay for it as "work for hire" so that you own it outright.

Appreciate your insight! I'm happy to be visited by a published developer. What apps and games did you make?

Marketing is a great idea. I'm going to start showing it off more once I get the final art assets in. Right now we are just programming a proof of concept / MVP. I did start writing a script for the next YouTube video last night. In the fall and winter I'm going to go heavier on marketing.

I agree, the best thing to do is to own your own business. I feel that it is fair to split the revenue based on how much they're helping me. I don't know if I can afford to hire someone.

How much does it cost to do work for hire? Where can I find developers?

 

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[Plushy]

Friday:
Worked 2:49 (2 hours and 49 minutes)
Today, I decided to lock my phone in the mornings and see if I can pump those hours up.

I worked on refactoring and data structure things, UI things.


I made sure the teammates knew what they were working on for the next week
I wrote a script for the next YouTube update.

 

[Deleted8v369]

Appreciate your insight! I'm happy to be visited by a published developer. What apps and games did you make?

Marketing is a great idea. I'm going to start showing it off more once I get the final art assets in. Right now we are just programming a proof of concept / MVP. I did start writing a script for the next YouTube video last night. In the fall and winter I'm going to go heavier on marketing.

I agree, the best thing to do is to own your own business. I feel that it is fair to split the revenue based on how much they're helping me. I don't know if I can afford to hire someone.

How much does it cost to do work for hire? Where can I find developers?

If you have friends who can help you, that's great, just pay them rather than promising profit-share. My best developers have been ones I've met online. For example the very talented artists who contributed to the shareware game above were from Chile, and I met them on a game development forum. I have had some success with Upwork, as well. Fiverr, not so much.

 

[Mr.Nichan]

Nice to see another app dev! Hit me up if you want to talk shop! I'm developing a service that I'm talking about in my own progress thread and I'll be happy talk publicly as well in case others can find value

Edit: typos

 

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[Plushy]

Thank you all for the support!

A family situation came up and I am flying overseas now (almost landed) Even at the airport, I gave a short overview meeting for a teammate, worked on a loading idea for my thing while at the gates.

I don't like the idea of calling them employees bc they are my friends and i want them to have input on the creative direction, but ultimately they are helping me realize my vision and i am extremely grateful. As friends, I care for them, their future and want to benefit them more than anything. I personally think when people say never mix business with friendships, it depends on the type of friend they are and the person you are. If you're a manipulative, selfish user of course you're going to have a hard time.

At first I used to think I was in a hard situation to start a business because I'm a student and don't have a job, so I don't have thousands pouring in every month to risk and replenish. But I realized I do have savings, and I wouldn't be so brave if some part of me knew I can fall back on it to hire professionals to improve the product. Secondly, the other capital I do have was social credit. I've helped my friends in the past and have a track record for pulling through, and part of what makes it hard for me to ask for help is I know I would take any promise very seriously. Since I've asked for their help, I'd promise to finish this project so we will all have it on our resumes.

So personally even though I'd never have the bravery to risk getting a loan or using my savings on a business idea, I did end up using a form of credit anyway (social credit) which was the original form of the idea of credit cards. But I truly think we have a multi million dollar idea on our hands, and whatever they input I want to reward 10x. And with everyone's help, the end result will be 10x better than if I did it alone, letting fear or fear of risk stop me from asking for help. Already a lot of my stretch goals for features on this project is possible now with their help.

These are just my thoughts about what my gut told me is right for my situation I'd like to share. And on the plus side, it's amazing! This is like those stories of startups where they started as friends in college. And just from an idea in my head, I have created 4 jobs out of thin air. And following that, my idea will produce profit from thin air. It really is like magic. It made me think about Think and Grow Rich. This is where jobs come from. People with ideas, execute them, and then hopefully the ideas are sound and both the world and the team get more in return for their work.

 

[Mr.Nichan]

Thank you all for the support!

A family situation came up and I am flying overseas now (almost landed) Even at the airport, I gave a short overview meeting for a teammate, worked on a loading idea for my thing while at the gates.

I don't like the idea of calling them employees bc they are my friends and i want them to have input on the creative direction, but ultimately they are helping me realize my vision and i am extremely grateful. As friends, I care for them, their future and want to benefit them more than anything. I personally think when people say never mix business with friendships, it depends on the type of friend they are and the person you are. If you're a manipulative, selfish user of course you're going to have a hard time.

At first I used to think I was in a hard situation to start a business because I'm a student and don't have a job, so I don't have thousands pouring in every month to risk and replenish. But I realized I do have savings, and I wouldn't be so brave if some part of me knew I can fall back on it to hire professionals to improve the product. Secondly, the other capital I do have was social credit. I've helped my friends in the past and have a track record for pulling through, and part of what makes it hard for me to ask for help is I know I would take any promise very seriously. Since I've asked for their help, I'd promise to finish this project so we will all have it on our resumes.

So personally even though I'd never have the bravery to risk getting a loan or using my savings on a business idea, I did end up using a form of credit anyway (social credit) which was the original form of the idea of credit cards. But I truly think we have a multi million dollar idea on our hands, and whatever they input I want to reward 10x. And with everyone's help, the end result will be 10x better than if I did it alone, letting fear or fear of risk stop me from asking for help. Already a lot of my stretch goals for features on this project is possible now with their help.

These are just my thoughts about what my gut told me is right for my situation I'd like to share. And on the plus side, it's amazing! This is like those stories of startups where they started as friends in college. And just from an idea in my head, I have created 4 jobs out of thin air. And following that, my idea will produce profit from thin air. It really is like magic. It made me think about Think and Grow Rich. This is where jobs come from. People with ideas, execute them, and then hopefully the ideas are sound and both the world and the team get more in return for their work.

Just make sure to get any agreements signed on paper with your friends! And maybe look into setting up a sweat equity contract with a vesting schedule including cliff. I set gave up a 15% share to a developer who I consider a friend but on 1 year cliff afterwhich a 3 year monthly vesting. Since you don't want to loose the all important "Control" part of the CENTS framework if/when you do make it big. Company share size is up to you to size as you want. But you don't want part owners that might have lost their fuel and not being able to get back their shares.

I might be a bit cynical but when it comes down to big money, friendships change.. and many times not for the better.

All that said, it is a given to get your friends in on the action if they are giving value. And it is always better to own a small share of something huge than most of something small.

 

[Plushy]

Yes! As we get closer to releasing the product I plan on assessing how much each of us contributed and get it down on a contract to a revenue split we agree with. I plan to remain owner of the company and product (so that if I want something changed I have the power to do it).

I do expect that people may come and go, so I'm ready to do their parts or find someone else if that happens.

It would be really cool if 10 years down the line this little gig blew up to a 100+ employee company, and I'd be able to realize more creative visions.

 

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[JimIsBack]

Let's get it man!! Excited to follow your journey.

Seems like you've already linked up with some app devs which is great.

Go and change the world buddy.

 

[Plushy]

I have a fast lane success story to share.

It's common knowledge I was raised by my grandparents. I came to visit grandma because I heard her health was in decline and my mom who is in an MLM (World Finance Group) was trying to scam her, write a fake will where she gets the inheritance, restrict her freedoms and other some such bs. I just arrived here and her health is perfectly fine (the health thing was a lie my mom spread to try to get legal power over her)

In the afternoon, the first story my grandma told me was about how when she was my age she was actually an inventor and patent holder! And that's why even in her old age, not only do people visit her out of respect, they also give her dividends to this day for something created 30 - 40 years ago. I was actually shocked because everything was by the formula a fast lane story.

She and grandpa had specialized knowledge in engineering. When they graduated, Grandpa was looking through papers and thought of a new way to do a certain thing, and thought "why hasn't anyone done it this way before?" Using the university research labs, they built it, tested it, refined it after experimentations (taking action). And it was as good as he thought in his imagination. The two of them pitched this idea to businesses. Grandma started with a factory from her home town. She picked it because it was close by and what she knew. She said if they manufacture it, she will get a portion of the proceeds. She was not only the first to come up with a design for this thing, she also did an exceptional documentation for it, which at that time was rare. (providing value) Because of this invention, and the patent, tons of businesses soon clamored to create it. And the grandparents tirelessly went on as many business trips as needed to promote it in cities all across the country. (hard work) This invention (I think it's some type of refining thing) generated great value for the factories that bought it, because it increased efficiency and production for them. They were ecstatic at the profit increases, and gave a portion to them without even asking just out of sheer gratitude because of how much it benefited them. To this day, they still randomly send dividends to my grandma. She says the number in her accounts "is too numerous to count." This is why in her old age, she doesn't need to rely on her grandchildren to take care of her. She can hire help and live comfortably.

Most recently my mom was trying to lie and scheme to get these dividends from her. As far as I know, my mom has never been rich a day in her life, because her focus has always been on taking value from others. It's crazy how different my mom and my grandma are.

I am extremely inspired by grandma. This is true "girl-bossing"/feminism. There is no mention of how her being a woman stopped her in any way. The product she designed was good, and businesses were more than happy to buy from her. I would like to believe my individualism and excitement to create something new comes from my grandma. I really loved the matter-of-fact way my grandma explained things; never once did she make any excuses, it was just "obvious" the next steps after the idea, was to create it, then promote it.

 

[Plushy]

Programmed for 3h and 1 minutes yesterday (Tues)
Already worked for nearly 2 hours today and it's only 9AM!
I'm about half way done with the mechanic I assigned for myself, and I wanted to make it due by Thursday meaning I have 2 days left. I have about 9 mechanics left before being able to launch.

Heading out to get a SIM card and bank acc locally despite having a bad grasp of the language. I am amazed at how much entrepreneurship transformed me. My attitude is no longer, "I can't do this" or "I need help" or not even thinking of doing it, but "why not try?" I was watching a movie on the plane and they give this stereotype of the rich boss in the movie as being entitled and delusional; but I think to normal people, our sense of "anything is possible if I try" to them, the fearful, looks like entitlement and delusion. There's no impossible problem. I know that the more I attempt difficult things, the more I succeed - that is how confidence grows.

A lot of family and social situations that used to give me great anxiety is now laughed off. I've truly internalized "that's your opinion and it has nothing to do with me" Some of the professors I talked to really underestimate the scope of my company, team, and ability - but that's their opinion of me and has nothing to do with what I know to be true. I've learned to listen more to the beat of my own drum.

Quotes of the day:
"Success favors those who try" (I'm sure this is a paraphrase of something already mentioned in MJ's books, but often when I get stuck on a difficult coding problem I think "just try")

"Excuses are just fear leaving the body"
Instead of getting discouraged and believing in the excuses and beating myself up for thinking them again, I just pretend "it means the stress has now left my body and I can go work."

I know, I haven't made a sale yet, so I'm still a wantrepreneur. My product takes time to build. I promise you, of all my abandoned projects, I am determined and committed to finish this no matter how long it takes.

 

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[Deleted8v369]

Programmed for 3h and 1 minutes yesterday (Tues)
Already worked for nearly 2 hours today and it's only 9AM!
I'm about half way done with the mechanic I assigned for myself, and I wanted to make it due by Thursday meaning I have 2 days left. I have about 9 mechanics left before being able to launch.

Heading out to get a SIM card and bank acc locally despite having a bad grasp of the language. I am amazed at how much entrepreneurship transformed me. My attitude is no longer, "I can't do this" or "I need help" or not even thinking of doing it, but "why not try?" I was watching a movie on the plane and they give this stereotype of the rich boss in the movie as being entitled and delusional; but I think to normal people, our sense of "anything is possible if I try" to them, the fearful, looks like entitlement and delusion. There's no impossible problem. I know that the more I attempt difficult things, the more I succeed - that is how confidence grows.

A lot of family and social situations that used to give me great anxiety is now laughed off. I've truly internalized "that's your opinion and it has nothing to do with me" Some of the professors I talked to really underestimate the scope of my company, team, and ability - but that's their opinion of me and has nothing to do with what I know to be true. I've learned to listen more to the beat of my own drum.

Quotes of the day:
"Success favors those who try" (I'm sure this is a paraphrase of something already mentioned in MJ's books, but often when I get stuck on a difficult coding problem I think "just try")

"Excuses are just fear leaving the body"
Instead of getting discouraged and believing in the excuses and beating myself up for thinking them again, I just pretend "it means the stress has now left my body and I can go work."

I know, I haven't made a sale yet, so I'm still a wantrepreneur. My product takes time to build. I promise you, of all my abandoned projects, I am determined and committed to finish this no matter how long it takes.

When you say "mechanic", what do you mean? A feature? A task? What project management methodology are you using?

 

[Plushy]

When you say "mechanic", what do you mean? A feature? A task? What project management methodology are you using?

Yes a feature. Many features come together to make different systems in my game / app.

For example a calendar would be a feature, and a to do list is a feature, combining the two where you make a chain of streaks creates a system. I have lots of modular features / mechanics in my thing, and combine to make unique systems I think would be interesting and novel. Since it's kind of a game and kind of a productivity app, I call the features mechanics.

I'm an amateur and don't have industry knowledge of the correct terms, so I just use what words I know. My mechanic includes making sure user input is handled correctly, the logic flows, and data managment. Right now I'm doing all the programming, then testing, then revising and marketing. This is all theoretical until I finish programming and can playtest it to see if it does what I think it should.

 

[Plushy]

Not my success but just wanted to share that my grandparent's patent is real! Grandma handed me a booklet today. This is more valuable than anything in the world, the inspiration that someone has done it. I am so glad she was brave enough to do such a thing, I think it has opened up epigenetics for me to be brave also.

I just translated the design today and looked it up on Google. Despite being dreamed up 50 years ago, it is still being manufactured and used in manufacturing today! It's used in refineries in oil, agriculture, and pharmaceuticals; truly a B2B product. I'm not surprised she said "the amount is too numerous to count" (the dividends, although maybe that's a lie to keep mom away from the real numbers - not that I care anyway, since it's not my money) I'm not surprised my mom has made it a mission to take all that money. The real treasure for me is the booklet, documenting that someone in my family has done the fast lane. She was 41 when she designed this product. She grew up so poor that she couldn't even eat lunch, and had to take a nap through it while other children ate.

Interesting fact, she told me a story she learned in elementary school, about how specialized knowledge is more important than the product, and the knowledge and work is what adds value. (But these days, schools teach different stories) She truly understood how money works! She also told me stories about the family friends - who I now know are business partners, how one secretary in particular went above and beyond in documenting things, so she was afforded great opportunities by grandma; how the designer was also very diligent and dutiful, but without my grandma's promotion and implementation, no beautiful design is valuable. I love being groomed by my grandma to be more hardworking and optimistic. This is so different from my "poor mom" who is all about taking things from people, and feeling like the world owes you something, and that rich people "got lucky and don't deserve it" My "rich mom" (grandma) creates something that benefitted the world. How many medicines were made using her design? How much more food was produced because of it?

And even though she did the research and promotion, she used the university name and her husband's name to publish it; I think that's clever to avoid sexism. And the manufacturers knew she designed it; she talked about how these industry leaders welcomed her with great respect; this was before there was anything like feminism. A good product knows no boundaries.

Also from idea to sales, it took her 1 year. Truly, 12 months to a million. And this was at a time before internet, when all business was conducted by phone, on foot, and by train. She began in abject poverty and little to no resources; truly we have no excuses.

Sorry to clog up my thread with anything more, I'll try to reduce updates to once a week. My google spreadsheet doesn't update here, but i'll let you know the numbers I've spent programming at the end. I'm coming up to the end of the mechanic, and it has taken around 20 hours; it's good that I timed everything, so I know how much I'd have to pay if I hire a freelancer. But at this pace, I should finish on schedule. Moreover, my grandma and others' stories show that if you can't get to sales in 1 year, you truly haven't worked hard enough so I need to get back to work! I started my idea January 4th ish, so by that time I want to be public and having people use my idea!

 

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[Deleted8v369]

Yes a feature. Many features come together to make different systems in my game / app.

For example a calendar would be a feature, and a to do list is a feature, combining the two where you make a chain of streaks creates a system. I have lots of modular features / mechanics in my thing, and combine to make unique systems I think would be interesting and novel. Since it's kind of a game and kind of a productivity app, I call the features mechanics.

I'm an amateur and don't have industry knowledge of the correct terms, so I just use what words I know. My mechanic includes making sure user input is handled correctly, the logic flows, and data managment. Right now I'm doing all the programming, then testing, then revising and marketing. This is all theoretical until I finish programming and can playtest it to see if it does what I think it should.

In Agile you typically break your development into `user stories` and 'tasks`, or in waterfall methodologies like Prince 2, into' phases` and `tasks`. However, whatever you call it, it's obviously working for you, since you are able to deligate work to your team and estimate how long it will take.

How are you gamifying you productivity app?

 

[Plushy]

In Agile you typically break your development into `user stories` and 'tasks`, or in waterfall methodologies like Prince 2, into' phases` and `tasks`. However, whatever you call it, it's obviously working for you, since you are able to deligate work to your team and estimate how long it will take.

How are you gamifying you productivity app?

I appreciate the recommendations! I'm going to look up Agile and Prince 2.

Right now, I list the 9 mechanics left; about 7 completed. then open each mechanic in Trello and break it down into the very basics like "be able to press this button" "this function does xyz properly" So one big mechanic is expanded into lots of tiny little cards that take 5 - 15 minutes each to do; sometimes up to 2 hours though if I estimate poorly or mess up. Then, there are three sections "TO-DO" "IN-PROGRESS" and "DONE" and it's motivating to move the cards between them, and organize what needs to be done first.

For the thing I'm competing against, I'm not doing anything new; but I'd like to think I'm doing it better. A lot of productivity apps are just "check this," "get 100% on a bar". I want to add layers of meaning, progression, choices, and rewards and risk! I feel like people are naturally motivated to grow and gain an advantage, among many other things. If their brains can tell a productivity app is predictable and a glorified planner, it shuts off and isn't useful to them. So I use everything I know to make this more than just a "check-off-to-do-list" kind of app. *There are stakes involved* in not finishing what you've promised to do!

I've also been going through the book, "Actionable Gamification" so there will be social and competitive aspects to it, while making sure the losses aren't so painful while the upsides are fun and surprising. Very few other apps go all out providing all these features to the user, I know it's ambitious and I haven't done it before - but I'm willing to learn to do it. I want it to feel like a productivity app where it feels like a game designer created it, not just someone trying to make something useful only. I've been told by my friends I'm funny to hang around, and that people feel motivated around me from my enthusiasm, so I hope that will offer an advantage to building my productivity software to make it one of a kind. I personally create productivity games for myself too when I do coding. I won't share much more about how it's implemented for now but rest assure you'll all see it (and hopefully use it!) when I'm done.

And I feel like what I'm angling for here has so many advantages to its competitors that's why I feel full of faith. There are features I haven't seen done before that I'd like to experiment in my own game.

Once I finish this current mechanic I'm on (which implements a type of loss/risk) I'll be able to actually start playtesting it; and if it works well, you're going to see my productivity on this thread skyrocket lol

Edit: I wanted to add it's not just a to-do list, it's a very specific thing. And there is one "competitor" in the market for this (and basically I used it and thought there could be improvements, which is how I am ending up making my own) And my competitor, which offers less than what I'm doing, is already making millions.

 

[MichelleWood]

@PlushyLad I'm enjoying the stories about your grandmother, very inspiring! It's great that you have her as a mentor.

Apparently my grandfather was the 'jack of all trades' in their village. I feel this explains why my brother is an engineer and me an entrepreneur.

 

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[Plushy]

I've come up against a huge problem in my code. While developing it on the PC, the data storage and performance wasn't such an issue. When playing it on my phone, it became a huge issue. Especially now that I've added more features = more data to be stored and retrieved. I'm not the type to just say, "nah the users can handle the lag." I think my only option is to completely recreate it from scratch, with a different structure. I reserved September, October, and November for "playtesting, game feel, optimization" but I might just re-do my project completely in those months now. If I'm going to spend time on something, I am going to make it good. My teammates have some life stuff going on, and since they're not being paid, I can't really force them to work anyway. It's up to me.

Yesterday I did some soul searching to come to terms with that possibility / inevitability, and finally I resolved I had to do it. I've already rebuilt this about once or twice now, but that was when I had only 10% of the project done. Now I'm closer to 40%. On my little walk to calm myself down, I STILL *really wanted* this game / app to be real, and that emotion was stronger than the one of fear about the work ahead.

On the plus side
+ at least I found out I had this issue because I've been developing so much. If I had procrastinated, I wouldn't have even known about it (let this be a lesson to all you) If I had worked harder in the prior 7 months, I could've found out about it sooner, like 3 or 4 months in.

+ facing new problems means I'm growing. If I'm just handling the same type of problems over and over again, I'm not learning anything new.

+ learned new things, and when I rebuild it, it can be smoother and cleaner.

+ by developing a lot everyday since starting this thread, I'm becoming more efficient and comfortable in pulling through the things I already know how to do. So rebuilding these 7 months of work might only take 1 or 2 months. or less! And I'll have the opportunity to restructure a lot of things I wasn't happy about the first time.

+ If I solve this optimization / data problem, I will have a rare skill in the marketplace. These are the kind of problems so rare and specific it's hard to even find solutions online about, and you have to come up with the answer yourself.

+ the past several months haven't been a waste, bc imagine if I had been watching Netflix instead. At least I had learned something in building this.

I just come here to say I'm not giving up. I'm committed. Even if I don't make my original deadline of Sep 1 now, that doesn't mean I'll give up. This is what the process diaries is all about anyway. The roadblocks and moments that test us.

The plan forward is to test / learn some of that performance stuff and at least make the current build bearable to play, and continue on this current build with the rest of the features so I know what to keep and what I'll need. "first make it work, then make it better." I also noticed, I am ping-ponging between facing a problem, and learning just enough to solve that problem, as MJ had said. Even when I devoted a whole year to just "rEsEaRcHing" I never faced this issue until I actually built something and tested it for myself. I never could've anticipated these problems or solutions until I faced it.

Parting words: "First make it work. Then make it good." It doesn't have to be perfect. Updates are what makes it better.

 

[Deleted8v369]

I've come up against a huge problem in my code. While developing it on the PC, the data storage and performance wasn't such an issue. When playing it on my phone, it became a huge issue. Especially now that I've added more features = more data to be stored and retrieved. I'm not the type to just say, "nah the users can handle the lag." I think my only option is to completely recreate it from scratch, with a different structure. I reserved September, October, and November for "playtesting, game feel, optimization" but I might just re-do my project completely in those months now. If I'm going to spend time on something, I am going to make it good. My teammates have some life stuff going on, and since they're not being paid, I can't really force them to work anyway. It's up to me.

Yesterday I did some soul searching to come to terms with that possibility / inevitability, and finally I resolved I had to do it. I've already rebuilt this about once or twice now, but that was when I had only 10% of the project done. Now I'm closer to 40%. On my little walk to calm myself down, I STILL *really wanted* this game / app to be real, and that emotion was stronger than the one of fear about the work ahead.

On the plus side
+ at least I found out I had this issue because I've been developing so much. If I had procrastinated, I wouldn't have even known about it (let this be a lesson to all you) If I had worked harder in the prior 7 months, I could've found out about it sooner, like 3 or 4 months in.

+ facing new problems means I'm growing. If I'm just handling the same type of problems over and over again, I'm not learning anything new.

+ learned new things, and when I rebuild it, it can be smoother and cleaner.

+ by developing a lot everyday since starting this thread, I'm becoming more efficient and comfortable in pulling through the things I already know how to do. So rebuilding these 7 months of work might only take 1 or 2 months. or less! And I'll have the opportunity to restructure a lot of things I wasn't happy about the first time.

+ If I solve this optimization / data problem, I will have a rare skill in the marketplace. These are the kind of problems so rare and specific it's hard to even find solutions online about, and you have to come up with the answer yourself.

+ the past several months haven't been a waste, bc imagine if I had been watching Netflix instead. At least I had learned something in building this.

I just come here to say I'm not giving up. I'm committed. Even if I don't make my original deadline of Sep 1 now, that doesn't mean I'll give up. This is what the process diaries is all about anyway. The roadblocks and moments that test us.

The plan forward is to test / learn some of that performance stuff and at least make the current build bearable to play, and continue on this current build with the rest of the features so I know what to keep and what I'll need. "first make it work, then make it better." I also noticed, I am ping-ponging between facing a problem, and learning just enough to solve that problem, as MJ had said. Even when I devoted a whole year to just "rEsEaRcHing" I never faced this issue until I actually built something and tested it for myself. I never could've anticipated these problems or solutions until I faced it.

Parting words: "First make it work. Then make it good." It doesn't have to be perfect. Updates are what makes it better.

Before you take the drastic measure of starting from scratch, can you find another solution? What sort of database are you using? Can you cache more data on the front end? Is there a more efficient data structure you could use?

Try asking people on development forums, or even ask ChatGPT. You could also try a tool like Sonar Code Quality Tool & Secure Analysis with SonarQube

(I haven't tried Sonar yet. Another developer recommended it to me)

BTW: I have also read Actionable Gamification. Especially for educational/ productivity applications it's important to keep your users motivated.

 

[Plushy]

Before you take the drastic measure of starting from scratch, can you find another solution? What sort of database are you using? Can you cache more data on the front end? Is there a more efficient data structure you could use?

Try asking people on development forums, or even ask ChatGPT. You could also try a tool like Sonar Code Quality Tool & Secure Analysis with SonarQube

(I haven't tried Sonar yet. Another developer recommended it to me)

BTW: I have also read Actionable Gamification. Especially for educational/ productivity applications it's important to keep your users motivated.

I think it's for the best to start from scratch; I didn't know reading-writing to disk (and in the future, from/to the server) was such a slow process; so it's dotted all over my code in little mechanics here and there like "oh just ~'quickly'~ fetch this one thing" and then it turns out it takes forever and I would be better off fetching all the user data first and then doing calculations all at once; instead of calculate-fetch-calculate-fetch... I didn't KNOW BETTER!!!

Yes, cacheing more data in the front end is the solution I'm seeking for, in my rebuild. Right now, there's all sorts of little data dotted everywhere (and I learned another thing, fragmentation, which also decreases speed) Since I am sort of feeling my way into finishing a game, I didn't know what data I needed to store and read. so they're not very organized. I just made things as I went.

I definitely learned a lot about different data structures in the meantime. Which, I am grateful/proud of, because even though I've been vaguely interested in CS for years, it wasn't until I started TAKING ACTION that I've really had to do a deep dive into topics I've never heard of in classes. I'm learning about stuff like Jobs/ECS *now* and learning that the game IDE I'm using has ONE THREAD meaning I can load an object or update the UI but I can't do both at the same time. I wouldn't even know what that meant a week ago.

 

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[Plushy]

I might be moving this thread to INSIDERS, cause I seem to ramble about personal stuff.

Still working on this app every day btw! I recently posted a devlog about starting over. I'm thinking I might have to expect to be a solodev while my friends are busy with life stuff. (It's fair since I'm not paying them anything either)

And also I started a new YouTube channel last week based on a niche topic and some of my interests. Will it make money? idk. But it's also one of those "I created this product because I needed it" things, and I have 8 years experience in this "hobby" and I am the target demographic lol. But if it makes money, you guys will be the first to hear it.

I started writing a fiction book too, just for stress relief. I got delusional-ly confident at one point and thought "well F*ck, we're all going to die anyway one day so who cares if it's cringe or get cancelled" It's my dream book. And I can just publish it under a pseudonym if anything. I feel like if I have this creative outlet, I won't be so impatient about the rest. Honestly, the entrepreneurship stuff is so I can do whatever I want, publish whatever I want, and just laugh if anyone tries to cancel me or fire me.

But of course, the most important thing is to finish one thing - especially my game, which has the most concrete need it solves and is the most appealing to audiences, but at least with the second YT channel, I can create videos that only take a few days to make. So even while waiting to finish this app, which may take weeks or months, I can also have some skin in the game with my second channel, so I don't feel so impatient that "well everybody else already has a product they can/might make money off of" Of course, both these things aren't making money yet, but that's fine. I'll keep working on it, especially the latter one because it brings me great joy to create them.

The worst thing that happens is I graduate with a CS degree in a couple years and get a job ~oh no~ So literally I have nothing to lose starting these projects. Moreover, if I'm so impatient about making money, I can get a part time job right now - which I don't want to.

I had a big fight with the SO and I realized the person you think will be your biggest supporter might not be. I feel like that was the last hurdle I had to overcome; expecting anyone was going to handhold you to success. If anything, my confidence comes from realizing no one is going to do it for you or show you the way. And some might hate you for it.

Literally, I heard this quote somewhere that entrepreneurs will have to face and solve problems that no one has solved before. There is no guidebook. One of the problems I face that might not have the answer in a book is how to stay motivated and consistent (believe me, I've read a ton of books about procrastination or motivation or work ethic) I'm here to share, the answer is probably trial-and-error. I found what works for me is to listen to my intuition, and observe what has worked in the past, and continue to try new things. One of the things that helped recently a lot is writing in a journal every day. It empties out the anxiety in my head and puts into words what I'm working towards.

Another really nice quote / idea I wanted to share with you guys is "80% of millionaires are first generation" and it made me think a lot; that that means they couldn't have learned how to do it from their parents. Since that means their parents didn't make it. They had to learn on their own what to do. In that sense, I'm extremely glad I fell off the beaten path and wasn't such the good automaton that my family and society wanted me to be. It's made me listen to the beat of my own drum more.

Since coming back from the trip to see the family, drama and chaos has followed me like a demon. It took over a week to purge it out of my system. So I learned some people actively distract you from your goals. And sometimes, instead of waiting for your emotionality to subside, you can see your goals as your escape and outlet for those emotions, instead of the fake belief that "oh I need to be calm to be productive"

I also learned recently that programmers look down on gamedev because it's easy. It's so funny because gamedevs think it's the hardest thing in the world, when people who program think it's easy. Suddenly my mindset shifted from "this is hard" to "oh, this is supposed to be easy?" Amazing what the right info will do for you. Literally, what is so hard about it?

Thanks for reading. Your opinion is the only one I care about, since we are all on this journey to become an entrepreneur together, and one entrepreneur's success is social proof for other entrepreneurs, so I know we all have a vested interest to see each other succeed. I think that some people in my life, if I do well, they will actually like me less. Remember rule 1 of the 48 laws of power: never outshine the master. They want to believe that their script works. But you and I all know the truth.

 

[Bells20]

Hello hello. Welcome to the Desert of Desertion.
You've seen me around, I want to show I walk the walk.

7 Months ago I had an idea and began building an app alone.

3 Weeks ago I read Unscripted and joined this forum. I realized I needed to get my motivation in check and surround myself with good people. I realized, "there's no reason why it should take this long." In those 3 weeks, I finished a huge part of the process just by putting in as many hours as I could programming everyday. I did in 3 weeks more than what took 7 months! I wanted to meet a deadline of September 1.

2 days ago I've onboarded two friends to help me develop it faster, because I realized I couldn't do it alone if I wanted to meet that deadline nor do I have the resources/appetite for risk to hire developers.

I'm still working TOO SLOWLY so even though I don't feel ready, I am going to go ahead and make this thread now.​

I may share more about what this "app" is in the future. The friends I've told the idea to said they love the idea. Of course, the true test is when people vote with their wallets. I have plenty of other ideas in my back pocket, but I'm committed to seeing this first one through. There is a hole in the market for this, and a few have attempted to fulfill it, but I think I can provide massive value in different ways using my unique strengths and interests. Providing massive value also means a lot of work in development. But a true entrepreneur should over-deliver.

Please provide advice if you see there is any way I can develop it faster.
I do have some capital in savings I *could* use to invest if you think it's a good idea, but this app is unproven yet and I am afraid of risk.
And please keep me in check when I am slacking off.

I use the software, "ManicTime" and it keeps track of how long the windows in the IDE I use are active. I'm aiming for 20 hours a week. I'm documenting how long I spend developing in this thread. Just as I lost a lot of weight when I posted my CICO every day on a weight loss forum, I think public accountability is a wonderful tool. I also found out since starting this spreadsheet that it only takes me 10 hours to finish a mechanic, so I estimate it will take about 300-400 hours to finish this app, since there's about 14 mechanics left.
View attachment 50245
I also recently moved last week so I didn't work so much. I'm living in the location of my dreams and will attend school this fall. It is snowy and rainy here, and I am most productive and happy when it's cloudy. Prior to this I lived in sunny ol' Texas. I want to start classes a published developer.

What to expect on this thread:​

• I will share some quotes and thoughts I have to motivate myself on this thread.
• I will update at least weekly, and possibly more often (1/day) with how many hours I worked.
• I will also talk about the books I'm reading sometimes;
  
  (I won't be too specific about what features I've worked on, but I will post the hours worked)

I recently read "12 Months to a Million" that I see floating around here on the forum, and it makes me burn with passion. Why haven't I been working hard? If I worked really hard for 1 year, I can be free for the rest of my life! And secondly, 12 Months to a Million makes me realize how crucial feedback is. It's made me re-evaluate the timeline, to release it as soon as the features are programmed first; and update the aesthetics later. I originally wanted to release it only when the art is ready for the best first impression, but no reason to do that if the thing itself doesn't work well!

View attachment 50246

Feel free to roast me if you think this timeline is TOO generous.
I am doing my very best to pare it down to the MVP but also have the unique features up that I haven't seen before.

Just today I've delegated two mechanics to my two friends, and they're waiting on me to finish up a feature by Friday so they can build on that. My philosophy is, I'd rather split the revenue and have a finished thing, than to work on it forever by myself out of pride. I am not going to take a big piece of the pie, I'm just going to make the pie bigger for all of us.

I want to be faster, but I feel like the only way is to work longer! Please keep me on track.

Thank you to whoever mentioned Penzu, I've been using it a bit. Here are some quotes I wrote daily to motivate myself:



Sorry for the long intro! I promise future posts will be shorter.
If you are a programmer / developer too, comment your thread and let's follow each other!

Been following your progress.... impressive and keep it up!

I'll add a layer to your procrastination prevention tactics: One of the below three things are likely preventing you from moving forward:
Fear - Fear of failure, unknown, etc.
Discomfort - Actually doing the work, physical pain or side effects of doing the 'thing'
Resistance - External forces impacting your environment
I see combinations of all in your threads. Isolate the root issue and edit it out. When you get stuck again, run through the F-D-R filter again to isolate, and edit that out next. Keep going!

 

[Deleted8v369]

I might be moving this thread to INSIDERS, cause I seem to ramble about personal stuff.

Still working on this app every day btw! I recently posted a devlog about starting over. I'm thinking I might have to expect to be a solodev while my friends are busy with life stuff. (It's fair since I'm not paying them anything either)

And also I started a new YouTube channel last week based on a niche topic and some of my interests. Will it make money? idk. But it's also one of those "I created this product because I needed it" things, and I have 8 years experience in this "hobby" and I am the target demographic lol. But if it makes money, you guys will be the first to hear it.

I started writing a fiction book too, just for stress relief. I got delusional-ly confident at one point and thought "well F*ck, we're all going to die anyway one day so who cares if it's cringe or get cancelled" It's my dream book. And I can just publish it under a pseudonym if anything. I feel like if I have this creative outlet, I won't be so impatient about the rest. Honestly, the entrepreneurship stuff is so I can do whatever I want, publish whatever I want, and just laugh if anyone tries to cancel me or fire me.

But of course, the most important thing is to finish one thing - especially my game, which has the most concrete need it solves and is the most appealing to audiences, but at least with the second YT channel, I can create videos that only take a few days to make. So even while waiting to finish this app, which may take weeks or months, I can also have some skin in the game with my second channel, so I don't feel so impatient that "well everybody else already has a product they can/might make money off of" Of course, both these things aren't making money yet, but that's fine. I'll keep working on it, especially the latter one because it brings me great joy to create them.

The worst thing that happens is I graduate with a CS degree in a couple years and get a job ~oh no~ So literally I have nothing to lose starting these projects. Moreover, if I'm so impatient about making money, I can get a part time job right now - which I don't want to.

I had a big fight with the SO and I realized the person you think will be your biggest supporter might not be. I feel like that was the last hurdle I had to overcome; expecting anyone was going to handhold you to success. If anything, my confidence comes from realizing no one is going to do it for you or show you the way. And some might hate you for it.

Literally, I heard this quote somewhere that entrepreneurs will have to face and solve problems that no one has solved before. There is no guidebook. One of the problems I face that might not have the answer in a book is how to stay motivated and consistent (believe me, I've read a ton of books about procrastination or motivation or work ethic) I'm here to share, the answer is probably trial-and-error. I found what works for me is to listen to my intuition, and observe what has worked in the past, and continue to try new things. One of the things that helped recently a lot is writing in a journal every day. It empties out the anxiety in my head and puts into words what I'm working towards.

Another really nice quote / idea I wanted to share with you guys is "80% of millionaires are first generation" and it made me think a lot; that that means they couldn't have learned how to do it from their parents. Since that means their parents didn't make it. They had to learn on their own what to do. In that sense, I'm extremely glad I fell off the beaten path and wasn't such the good automaton that my family and society wanted me to be. It's made me listen to the beat of my own drum more.

Since coming back from the trip to see the family, drama and chaos has followed me like a demon. It took over a week to purge it out of my system. So I learned some people actively distract you from your goals. And sometimes, instead of waiting for your emotionality to subside, you can see your goals as your escape and outlet for those emotions, instead of the fake belief that "oh I need to be calm to be productive"

I also learned recently that programmers look down on gamedev because it's easy. It's so funny because gamedevs think it's the hardest thing in the world, when people who program think it's easy. Suddenly my mindset shifted from "this is hard" to "oh, this is supposed to be easy?" Amazing what the right info will do for you. Literally, what is so hard about it?

Thanks for reading. Your opinion is the only one I care about, since we are all on this journey to become an entrepreneur together, and one entrepreneur's success is social proof for other entrepreneurs, so I know we all have a vested interest to see each other succeed. I think that some people in my life, if I do well, they will actually like me less. Remember rule 1 of the 48 laws of power: never outshine the master. They want to believe that their script works. But you and I all know the truth.

Game-dev is bleeding edge. I don't think anyone looks down on it. However, it's one of those jobs lots of people want to do, so there is a lot of competition. Game development appears to be more glamorous and fun than, say, working on a database, and therefore the database developer is likely to be more in demand and higher paid.

 

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[Hadrian]

I might be moving this thread to INSIDERS, cause I seem to ramble about personal stuff.

Still working on this app every day btw! I recently posted a devlog about starting over. I'm thinking I might have to expect to be a solodev while my friends are busy with life stuff. (It's fair since I'm not paying them anything either)

And also I started a new YouTube channel last week based on a niche topic and some of my interests. Will it make money? idk. But it's also one of those "I created this product because I needed it" things, and I have 8 years experience in this "hobby" and I am the target demographic lol. But if it makes money, you guys will be the first to hear it.

I started writing a fiction book too, just for stress relief. I got delusional-ly confident at one point and thought "well F*ck, we're all going to die anyway one day so who cares if it's cringe or get cancelled" It's my dream book. And I can just publish it under a pseudonym if anything. I feel like if I have this creative outlet, I won't be so impatient about the rest. Honestly, the entrepreneurship stuff is so I can do whatever I want, publish whatever I want, and just laugh if anyone tries to cancel me or fire me.

But of course, the most important thing is to finish one thing - especially my game, which has the most concrete need it solves and is the most appealing to audiences, but at least with the second YT channel, I can create videos that only take a few days to make. So even while waiting to finish this app, which may take weeks or months, I can also have some skin in the game with my second channel, so I don't feel so impatient that "well everybody else already has a product they can/might make money off of" Of course, both these things aren't making money yet, but that's fine. I'll keep working on it, especially the latter one because it brings me great joy to create them.

The worst thing that happens is I graduate with a CS degree in a couple years and get a job ~oh no~ So literally I have nothing to lose starting these projects. Moreover, if I'm so impatient about making money, I can get a part time job right now - which I don't want to.

I had a big fight with the SO and I realized the person you think will be your biggest supporter might not be. I feel like that was the last hurdle I had to overcome; expecting anyone was going to handhold you to success. If anything, my confidence comes from realizing no one is going to do it for you or show you the way. And some might hate you for it.

Literally, I heard this quote somewhere that entrepreneurs will have to face and solve problems that no one has solved before. There is no guidebook. One of the problems I face that might not have the answer in a book is how to stay motivated and consistent (believe me, I've read a ton of books about procrastination or motivation or work ethic) I'm here to share, the answer is probably trial-and-error. I found what works for me is to listen to my intuition, and observe what has worked in the past, and continue to try new things. One of the things that helped recently a lot is writing in a journal every day. It empties out the anxiety in my head and puts into words what I'm working towards.

Another really nice quote / idea I wanted to share with you guys is "80% of millionaires are first generation" and it made me think a lot; that that means they couldn't have learned how to do it from their parents. Since that means their parents didn't make it. They had to learn on their own what to do. In that sense, I'm extremely glad I fell off the beaten path and wasn't such the good automaton that my family and society wanted me to be. It's made me listen to the beat of my own drum more.

Since coming back from the trip to see the family, drama and chaos has followed me like a demon. It took over a week to purge it out of my system. So I learned some people actively distract you from your goals. And sometimes, instead of waiting for your emotionality to subside, you can see your goals as your escape and outlet for those emotions, instead of the fake belief that "oh I need to be calm to be productive"

I also learned recently that programmers look down on gamedev because it's easy. It's so funny because gamedevs think it's the hardest thing in the world, when people who program think it's easy. Suddenly my mindset shifted from "this is hard" to "oh, this is supposed to be easy?" Amazing what the right info will do for you. Literally, what is so hard about it?

Thanks for reading. Your opinion is the only one I care about, since we are all on this journey to become an entrepreneur together, and one entrepreneur's success is social proof for other entrepreneurs, so I know we all have a vested interest to see each other succeed. I think that some people in my life, if I do well, they will actually like me less. Remember rule 1 of the 48 laws of power: never outshine the master. They want to believe that their script works. But you and I all know the truth.

Great posts on here. I'm also working on a Gamified Productivity app coming out soon and am doing the equity share route... I'd recommend a read of my app dev post here:

MEETUPS - App Developer Networking Group

Greetings Fastlaners! Indie App dev from Ireland here... I see more and more threads asking about apps so I though I'd create a shared space for us to chat and bounce ideas around. I'll try to get some established professional software dev's to give their input as well. I hope it will provide...

www.thefastlaneforum.com

I have my own journey posted on the INSIDERS and its been a one hell of a tough slog... I suffer terribly from MJ's "Tekels Syndrome"... though each of my side projects had a very valid reason for starting... Still...

 

[Plushy]

Just updating my thread that I am likely going to be making my game with a different, open source engine right now. I'm very intimidated, because it uses cpp (sorry I just like saying cpp instead of c++) but it goes with all the fastlane concepts that I will retain full ownership and control of it, pay no fees to anyone, no one can revoke access to my account, and I can build plug-in's to access things or create tools that other engines do not even have; plus it will be very easy to be cross platform on mobile devices, and computer, and heck even console if I want - but the trade off is that it's got a steep learning curve and overhead and difficult. So I don't know if that will make it "fastlane" since I'm just one layer above from engine-deving myself, but right now, I'm just mulling about it and coming to terms with what lies ahead. Maybe now it will take 3 years to develop instead of 1.

I guess I just wanted to let my thread know I'm not taking this liscencing stuff lightly, and I'm seriously considering the longevity of my game. And that may mean delays in development... But all of this is for learning, right? Why do the easy way when we can pull our toenails off one by one (jk) I'm just trying to psyche myself up by remembering that things I used to think were hard aren't hard, so in time, I might get used to this. And actually, almost all of the best games were made directly in c++. They didn't go through some convoluted engine or beginner friendly IDE.

 

[srodrigo]

Just updating my thread that I am likely going to be making my game with a different, open source engine right now. I'm very intimidated, because it uses cpp (sorry I just like saying cpp instead of c++) but it goes with all the fastlane concepts that I will retain full ownership and control of it, pay no fees to anyone, no one can revoke access to my account, and I can build plug-in's to access things or create tools that other engines do not even have;

That's the spirit. If you don't own your code, you aren't in a much better position than a YouTuber that gets their account shut down all the sudden.

plus it will be very easy to be cross platform on mobile devices, and computer, and heck even console if I want - but the trade off is that it's got a steep learning curve and overhead and difficult.

What's the engine if I may ask?

So I don't know if that will make it "fastlane" since I'm just one layer above from engine-deving myself, but right now, I'm just mulling about it and coming to terms with what lies ahead

People making obscene amounts of millions back in the days writing games in Assembly and C would disagree.

Maybe now it will take 3 years to develop instead of 1.

I'd like to understand this more. If you share what engine you are using, maybe we can help. There are cross-platform engines in "easier" languages than C++.

And actually, almost all of the best games were made directly in c++

Yeah, but chances are you don't need that level of performance.

I also learned recently that programmers look down on gamedev because it's easy. It's so funny because gamedevs think it's the hardest thing in the world, when people who program think it's easy. Suddenly my mindset shifted from "this is hard" to "oh, this is supposed to be easy?" Amazing what the right info will do for you. Literally, what is so hard about it?

They require complete different skills. I do both and none is easy. But you find pricks on both sides with big egos thinking they are some sort of Gandalf and need to trash the "rivals" to feel like they've got a point. I would say game development was very difficult back in the days of Doom and all those disruptive games written in C and Assembly. Now? Even SDL solves your bigger low-level headaches.

 

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[Deleted8v369]

Just updating my thread that I am likely going to be making my game with a different, open source engine right now. I'm very intimidated, because it uses cpp (sorry I just like saying cpp instead of c++) but it goes with all the fastlane concepts that I will retain full ownership and control of it, pay no fees to anyone, no one can revoke access to my account, and I can build plug-in's to access things or create tools that other engines do not even have; plus it will be very easy to be cross platform on mobile devices, and computer, and heck even console if I want - but the trade off is that it's got a steep learning curve and overhead and difficult. So I don't know if that will make it "fastlane" since I'm just one layer above from engine-deving myself, but right now, I'm just mulling about it and coming to terms with what lies ahead. Maybe now it will take 3 years to develop instead of 1.

I guess I just wanted to let my thread know I'm not taking this liscencing stuff lightly, and I'm seriously considering the longevity of my game. And that may mean delays in development... But all of this is for learning, right? Why do the easy way when we can pull our toenails off one by one (jk) I'm just trying to psyche myself up by remembering that things I used to think were hard aren't hard, so in time, I might get used to this. And actually, almost all of the best games were made directly in c++. They didn't go through some convoluted engine or beginner friendly IDE.

Were you developing on Unity, and are now concerned about the direction they're going with fees? If you can write in c# you can write in c++ too, though it is more 'verbose'. It's actually very satisfying writing in low-level languages. From a commercial perspective though, you want something that cuts down your development time.

It seems that you are already familiar with c#, so take a look at other game engines that use that language and also meet the requirements of the software you want to create. Also look into engines that have a scripting language suitable for the type of application you are trying to make.

There are loads of open source engines out there. If you are specific about your requirements, you can find the one that best suits your needs.

 

[srodrigo]

Were you developing on Unity, and are now concerned about the direction they're going with fees? If you can write in c# you can write in c++ too, though it is more 'verbose'. It's actually very satisfying writing in low-level languages. From a commercial perspective though, you want something that cuts down your development time.

It seems that you are already familiar with c#, so take a look at other game engines that use that language and also meet the requirements of the software you want to create. Also look into engines that have a scripting language suitable for the type of application you are trying to make.

There are loads of open source engines out there. If you are specific about your requirements, you can find the one that best suits your needs.

I think mobile is a tricky one. There are engines that are more interesting for mobile (started as mobile game engines, then evolved to support other platforms). Some others have rather poor mobile support. I would probably choose one or another depending on my main focus. Generalistic engines are a headache, IMO.

I still don't know what the OP is into. Sounds like he is into a mobile game (or at least wants to be able to port to mobile), and probably using Cocos2dx (from the open souce, C++ hints - I wouldn't recommend that engine if that's the case though, I had a bad experience with it)? I was going to suggest Godot, once they fix the C# support for mobile, given OP knows C#. Godot doesn't have good IAP and Ads integration (at least last time I checked) as Unity does (the only thing Unity used to do great, IMO), so I'm not sure.

Also, I wonder whether the whole "let's remake the game" is really viable for OP. Chances are, this is not a problem if his main focus is NOT mobile. 200k installs is rather a big success, and the new terms only screw badly F2P mobile games I think. If he just wants to get rid of those rug pullers, that's a valid argument. The new charges, I'm not sure.