Producing a Board Game 0-100 (Product dev, Crowd sourcing, Ecommerce, Ads)

[Isaac Oh]

Started creating some posts on reddit and am gaining some traction there already.

Had a playtest last night that went amazing. It played much better than I had assumed it would. Came out with lots of notes for improvements which I'll be implementing.

My goal is to have playtest kits sent out by this Friday.

https://www.shelfclutter.com/

Is a cool resource I plan on using to get some more attention to my kickstarter launch.

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[Sethamus]

I've never played Undertale but I've heard good things about it. Thanks @s.wirat13! I'll keep that in mind.



Very interesting. I'll definitely check this out. It seems like it might take some time to get it all set up but once it's done I'll be able to scale much more of the playtest.
One thing to consider is that this game is best played with groups of friends, not strangers. So I'm not sure if that would be a hindrance on that platform.

The only time I get on tabletop is when my friends, that all live in separate cities now, decide to get on and play. If my group was one that was interested in buying this game we would never test it since we live so far apart. Just a different perspective.

If the board game takes off, nothing from stopping you making a web based game.

 

[s.wirat13]

Man, hope you can lower that landed price somehow. Keep up.

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[Sandy Dives]

Progress & Updates:
Graphic designs are coming along slowly but surely.
So far, I've received designs for the back of the cards, hero concept art, and the logo. It's less that 1% of all the graphic design that has to be done so I'm looking for ways to speed this up. A drinking card game that did well for the niche had dozens of artists do illustrations for the cards and featured them in their game. I'm going to try a similar approach. I've been surprised at how many people are willing to help for free.

I sent out roughly 5 playtest kits. I don't think all of them have arrived yet but it'll be interesting to see what changes have to be made in the game itself.

I received my second quote. They estimated it to cost $114,759 for 2000 units ($49.97/unit) and $142,535 for 3000 units ($41.73/unit). That's pretty hefty! After advertising and other costs, I'd pretty much be breaking even if I sold at $65. Looking at the breakdown, the Quest Book is raising costs per unit by about $10.50. I might find a separate supplier for the books and have them delivered to the manufacturer so they can just put it in the box.

The Tabletop Simulator is something I'm still interesting in doing. However, it seems to require a lot of graphic material to be done in order to create the game online. The biggest thing I'm waiting for before launch is the graphic designs so I doubt I will have enough time in between to set it up on TTS. It's not a big deal, I don't think the attention it would get is worth the effort put into setting it up.

Awesome!

Perhaps you could outsource manufacturing of the different parts to different suppliers? And where are those suppliers located? Maybe it would be cheaper / better outsourcing it to China or something?

 

[Isaac Oh]

Awesome!

Perhaps you could outsource manufacturing of the different parts to different suppliers? And where are those suppliers located? Maybe it would be cheaper / better outsourcing it to China or something?

Yeah I only received two quotes so far and China's was definitely the best. I believe the second, more expensive one, was in Europe. I'm gonna be researching better suppliers!

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[100k]

Thanks man, I'll shoot you a PM.

I did some research on Fiverr and onlinejobs.ph. It's really hard to find an artist who is comfortable with the style I have in mind

One girl on Fiverr quoted about $120 per design of character (I have 8).
A guy on onlinejobs.ph quoted about $2000 total for about 3-4 months of graphic design and illustration work.

I'm having my chibi characters created for around $5-10 each via fiverr.

https://imgur.com/a/nNODrN5

View: https://imgur.com/a/nNODrN5


If that's the sort of style you are after, send me a pm for their link.

I also have a decent $200/Wordpress guy.

And a decent American copywriting gal.

 

[Kid]

the Quest Book is raising costs per unit by about $10.50

Offer it as an app-book. Basically an app that has the text of Quest Book.
Unit cost for download would be zero. Google and Apple have some yearly fee but its below $100 per year.

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[Hadrian]

Offer it as an app-book. Basically an app that has the text of Quest Book.
Unit cost for download would be zero. Google and Apple have some yearly fee but its below $100 per year.

hah you beat me to the punch though I’ve a slightly different angle I’m going to try with the app-book!

 

[Isaac Oh]

You don't need to spend .01 cent on advertising.

Word of mouth and start local young grasshopper

Wow. Really pushing me to the limits of what I think is necessary.

I'll do some research and create a separate plan on how I can accomplish everything above without advertising.

Thanks @sparechange

 

[Hadrian]

I had my first meeting with the game developer. He's had 4 years of experience as a game publisher. So he's seen hundreds of games published with his company. He's also created a few games to my knowledge.

The meeting was good. The feedback he gave me was blunt and continues to be blunt. But he sees potential in the project.

Here's the biggest feedback I've received.

- The current cost per unit is somewhere between $30-$40. He strongly suggests bringing this down to $8.
- The artwork I've commissioned is not fitting for a board game. I've put the rest of the art on pause. He offers to be art director after we polish out the game.
- The game itself could use mechanics that are more thematically aligned.

Some serious grounds to cover but I'm glad it's being addressed.

Loving this journey you're taking... I'll probably hire you as a consultant or a partner to make my own next year!

 

[sparechange]

I had my first meeting with the game developer. He's had 4 years of experience as a game publisher. So he's seen hundreds of games published with his company. He's also created a few games to my knowledge.

The meeting was good. The feedback he gave me was blunt and continues to be blunt. But he sees potential in the project.

Here's the biggest feedback I've received.

- The current cost per unit is somewhere between $30-$40. He strongly suggests bringing this down to $8.
- The artwork I've commissioned is not fitting for a board game. I've put the rest of the art on pause. He offers to be art director after we polish out the game.
- The game itself could use mechanics that are more thematically aligned.

Some serious grounds to cover but I'm glad it's being addressed.

Are you making this game locally? 30-40 sounds like what most games retail for..

If I were you, not that I'm like some gaming expert but found some success in my own niche (I make my own products) just ditch the idea of making money upfront and spend the 30-40 bucks on creating the game get a few copies of it and SELL it ASAP. Verify people will actually pay for it.

While I personally love this idea and would most likely buy it myself, our self bias's can be damaging in the long term, maybe YOU believe you have a great game (and you probably do)

The market place is the only thing that matters, people that are total strangers giving you their money in exchange for the game, sell it as a beta or ''rough copy'' and maybe even accept a loss on it, but if you can sell a few hundred of these it's possible you've got a winning product, just get it out there!

Worry about making a profit later when you can get the game made overseas for a few bucks.

Do you currently have a mailing list of pre-orders?/interest, even if you aren't getting paid having thousaunds of people expressing interest in the game is kind of a soft proof of concept, focus on building that.

 

[Hadrian]

You can market it as a beta testing phase, get people involved and excited about the project to confirm demand. You'd be surprised at how people will help you along the way, I offered my products as a tester and earned my second customer that way, they even went out of their way to offer me feedback, things I should do etc, I was pretty shocked at how someone was offering me so many inputs (after I made the sale) Blew my mind. It's important to get strangers behind your game and become disciples for this game.

You definitely don't want to spend the next few months developing a game, having a perfectionist mindset and then finding out after more months of time investment and money noone wants to buy it, it's possible to get money back you've lost but time is not.

In the gaming world as an example, Half Life & Counter-strike the makers released beta versions for people to test, can you believe it? Not only are they getting feedback from the market place & getting them to do the work in exchange for a free game, they create a sense of loyalty and pride/discipleship, making the testers proud they were involved. You should do something similar, getting people behind your project.

As for a website, there's probably some cheap options out there although I think shopify at 40 bucks a month is pretty good, I'm a total moron and built a decent looking shop, so most likely you could to.

And like I mentioned before, no marketing plan is needed. Get proof of concept first, head to the local liquor store and buy a few 24 packs of beer & goto some local college & university campus's and engage with the marketplace directly. Get emails, phone numbers, ask them to like your FB page. If you can get a few hundred people wanting to play your game then you can focus on making a profit after the fact. Break some rules if needed, think outside the box..

Also try Meetup.com. Here in Dublin we have meetups for Board games and one for New Board games....

Check this out... Inspiring or what?!?!

Building a Niche Board Games Business Through a Million-Dollar Crowdfunding Campaign - Shopify

When Dan Blacklock saw that there wasn’t a convenient way to store board games, he began prototyping shelves. After successfully crowdfunding over $1 million, Dan built BoxThrone as the go-to business for board games storage. In this episode of Shopify Masters, we chat with Dan about building a...

www.shopify.com

 

[df1992]

@Isaac Oh .. I saw a podcast on my stream that might be right up your street Episode: "Building A Niche Board Games Business by Crowdfunding a Million Dollars" on the podcast Shopify Masters... Haven't listened to it but thought of your thread when I saw it!

 

[Isaac Oh]

@Isaac Oh .. I saw a podcast on my stream that might be right up your street Episode: "Building A Niche Board Games Business by Crowdfunding a Million Dollars" on the podcast Shopify Masters... Haven't listened to it but thought of your thread when I saw it!

Thanks @df1992 ! @Hadrian also posted the link so I checked it out. I took away a good amount from it. Appreciate it from both of you!

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[Kid]

Good to hear you're going in right direction.

The game has to be tested a few dozen times, then back to the drawing board. Then tested about a hundred times, then back. Then, another few hundred times before it's properly bulletproof ready for release.

That's how great things are

 

[Strm]

Great thread, good luck with the process!

I am also starting from scratch to work on a game to play indoors, so I'm keeping an eye on this as well!

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[Strm]

Doubts that this is all stupid and won't work out. No one will want it and it'll be a massive waste of time and energy.

Okay, back to working on it

That's how it goes!

 

[OwenD]

Doubts that this is all stupid and won't work out. No one will want it and it'll be a massive waste of time and energy.

Okay, back to working on it

Keep at it man! I’ve been lurking on this thread the progress you’ve made is inspiring.

you got this!

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[Isaac Oh]

Awesome Project Isaac... I'll be following your progress as I'm working on my own board game too, a kind of Lord of the rings Risk... but I went for the apps frst!

Here's a few threads:

HOT! - Has anyone built a board game?

This isn't necessarily a great business to get into, but has anyone ever built a board game? My wife and I have always wanted to make a board game. We come up with great concepts, but I'm wondering if there are any good step by steps for taking a board game from idea to completion? I spent a...

www.thefastlaneforum.com

Gaming (Video, Board, etc)

Just a thought. Why aren't there more lucrative side business opportunities in the gaming industry? It's a billion dollar industry spread out across video and board games, and there is even more of a push for the board game side to "get away from technology" and spend more time with people...

www.thefastlaneforum.com

Best of Luck!

Thanks Hadrian! Excited to see when you launch yours

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[Isaac Oh]

Watching. When you launch Kickstarter we will move you to notable and get you some publicity. Good luck! Tag me when that happens.

Will do! Thanks @Vigilante

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[Isaac Oh]

@s.wirat13 agreed. Since we're going the route of an adventure RPG game with drinking as a mechanic, we're thinking 1-1.5 hrs would be a good gameplay time.

Definitely investing into miniatures. They're our biggest cost and many board games simply use 2D cutouts. Our market includes more serious board gamers who would appreciate minis.

Appreciate that man! I'm not thinking of conceptual architecture but when we do I'll let you know!

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[triodine]

One of the friends who came to playtest didn't seem like he actually wanted to play. Was complaining that the stories were long and wasn't really engaging throughout. I took some notes just in case, but I don't think he's the type of person we're looking for anyway.

Have you thought about having different game modes/ lengths? That way, for people with a shorter attention span like your tester mentioned above, might feel more engaged?

 

[s.wirat13]

Really good point. I'll start tracking that.



Great point. That's something that Near and Far does. I could actually see this working out well. I'll implement this after I get the core game nailed down.

@triodine made a solid point. If he wants casual, you can actually give him that. Either with different mode or difficulty adjustment. I’ve played PVE game like Forbidden Island which has several difficulty levels. All the adjustments are explained in the rule book. If you can manage to put that in your game, you can have house audience buying yours instead of keeping them out. In my case, my colleagues are mostly casual gamers. If there ain’t easy level for them, they play for a game and then back to scrolling Facebook. That board game will offer less value to me too.

 

[Isaac Oh]

I see a lot of value you’re putting in there. I believe that great story will grows a solid fan base. It is going to be awesome. This sounds just like how Toby Fox made his game, Undertale (One of my all-time favorite RPG despite the graphic pixels everyone hates).

I think if you are satisfied with the story, I agree that focusing at gameplay would be the first priority now. Quality over quantity. When looking at the game mechanism, you may need to often clear you head and look at it from the other sides. Go for a walk and you may get that ‘Aha’ moment out of nowhere. It is a creative task and stressing out your best buddy, brain, won’t help much.

I follow one motto aggressively. It is from the anime, MHA (excuse my nerd side haha). It goes ‘When you are at your limit, remember why you clenched your fist’. It sounds like a cliche but when you put it with your situation, your story and what you’ve been through, man, it will get you going every time. Hope it helps you too. Keep it up.

I've never played Undertale but I've heard good things about it. Thanks @s.wirat13! I'll keep that in mind.

An alternative to testing in person. If you have a friend who can do some basic coding, or whatever it would take on steam, there is a game called tabletop simulator. Pretty much any popular games get ripped off and created on there for people to play. Catan, monopoly, uno, poker, plus a lot in your RPG category I would guess. You could potentially have a very rough version without tons of individual card graphics or at least final products and use that audience to test. You could host the game and get input as you have randoms play that would require you to teach them the game.

Edit: I forgot to add things like dice, timers, etc are already standard in the platform. You only need to make your board and cards and if you wanted a rulebook. Since you said you were sending a lot digitally, this could be a better approach.

Very interesting. I'll definitely check this out. It seems like it might take some time to get it all set up but once it's done I'll be able to scale much more of the playtest.
One thing to consider is that this game is best played with groups of friends, not strangers. So I'm not sure if that would be a hindrance on that platform.

 

[Sethamus]

Definitely keep on the track you are, as doing too much can slow progress or turn into action taking. Unless you hit a wall with the physical game just keep this idea in the back of your head. Even going into licensing/ production (however the board game world works) you might want to keep the rights to an online version. A lot of connections are online solely and while board game sales have probably soared during covid, how many families would play your type of game? From what I read it is more tailored for friends with similar interests, though I could be wrong as I haven't played much of these types.

 

[Kid]

Bump - how is it going Isaac?

 

[Kid]

Ok so no hurry. Thanks for reply.

Besides that, I've condensed the 26 page rulebook into a much more straightforward 6 pages! That took a lot more work than I thought it would.

Good job I believe its not as easy as people might think

 

[s.wirat13]

Hey,
@Isaac Oh . Found this web-based boardgame sim. Maybe you should give it a try. Should be quicker to create a playtest than Tabletop Simulator. Create, Playtest and Promote Online Board Games

 

[Isaac Oh]

Hey,
@Isaac Oh . Found this web-based boardgame sim. Maybe you should give it a try. Should be quicker to create a playtest than Tabletop Simulator. Create, Playtest and Promote Online Board Games

Thanks! I stumbled upon that too a while back. I might as well work on that while I'm doing some waiting...

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[Hadrian]

Been following this with interest as I plan on making my own Board Game next year.
Have to crack these bloody apps first!

Quick thought: I wonder could you base the rules on another game so you would have a niche userbase to target immediately and who could hit the ground running.... I'm basing my own idea on Lord of the Rings Risk with new elements that can enhance the game later, but won't stop people from getting stuck in straight away! Just a thought!