Opinion: Skipping college is not going to make you fastlane

[wade1mil]

Skipping college won't make you rich...just as going to college won't make you smart. Both are possible, but neither are likely.

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[Sethamus]

So the purpose of this thread was not to prove whether or not going to college or skipping will make you rich faster and give you a fast lane business. I was noticing a trend where going to college was being included in the script ideology. Hopefully for someone on the fence they will read all of the responses in here and see that my hunch was right and the important part is having a well laid out plan.
College or not, a shitty plan or quitting good opportunities like free college/uni because you no longer want to live the script is not the smartest move most of the time. Quitting the script is more of a mindset and the beliefs that keep you in the herd mentality. College is an educational tool that you can use, if done with good intentions, to learn valuable skills and also get a good job IF you need to afterwards.

 

[AFMKelvin]

So the purpose of this thread was not to prove whether or not going to college or skipping will make you rich faster and give you a fast lane business. I was noticing a trend where going to college was being included in the script ideology. Hopefully for someone on the fence they will read all of the responses in here and see that my hunch was right and the important part is having a well laid out plan.
College or not, a shitty plan or quitting good opportunities like free college/uni because you no longer want to live the script is not the smartest move most of the time. Quitting the script is more of a mindset and the beliefs that keep you in the herd mentality. College is an educational tool that you can use, if done with good intentions, to learn valuable skills and also get a good job IF you need to afterwards.

Backpedaling much. The title of this thread is literally "skipping college is not going to make you fastlane". And now you're saying that wasn't the intention of the thread lol.

 

[James Klymus]

Around here, the reason college is bashed so much is because we understand that college isn't what sets you up to be free.

There's nuance to this discussion, and that's why I think it's so contentious.

Sure, you can go to school, get in a lot of debt/pay a lot of money, and go get a job that pays the bills. But the point of MJ's work, as I see it, Is to give you the tools to actually set you free (as free as you can be in our free range society).

College just doesn't teach you that. It's not in their interest to do that. They want to milk out your education as long as they can (4-5 years undergrad, gen eds that you've taken for 13 years prior, graduate school and higher degrees), And make you become a stable tax/debt paying citizen, because the federally (tax payer) backed student loans system requires it to not collapse. Any mass deviation from that is dangerous.

Obviously, some people absolutely need school. Doctors, lawyers, you probably already know who needs a degree.

And if you go to school like most people, and live on loans for 4-5 years, you come out with 5-6 figure debt numbers as a 22 year old kid. Pair that with a consumption mind set that is perpetuated throughout society (the new grad who buys a $40,000 car to celebrate his new job), And you're on the hamster wheel of paying bills from consumption without production.

Not only that, but the obvious political biases, indoctrination, blatant marxism, and the echo chambers that dont allow free thinking, I think college sucks for most people. They don't have your best interest in mind. I absolutely am biased, by the way. I dropped out and have been working on making my way to freedom ever since.

Heck, most of my friends who have 4 year degrees aren't even in the career field they studied in college. They're at jobs they could have gotten a year out of high school.

Compare that to trade school, where you learn relevant skills to the career you choose, as well as get in the trenches as an apprentice, all for a small fraction of money and time that a college education costs.

If you personally found value in your education, good I'm glad. I don't think its the best path for most people though.

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[farmer79]

For some reason this is an emotional subject where people often get defensive on both sides. People who didn’t go often seen defensive and are quick and vocal to prove/insist that they were the smart ones because they saw through the charade that is higher education, and the people who went look down at the people who didn’t as slackers and lacking motivation and the basic intelligence necessary to get a degree.

If we strip college or university education of the emotion, parents dreams, and teachers pressure and look at it for what it is: a commodity, I think we can get closer to the truth of whether it is a good idea or not.

Their are times some commodities are very valuable and times they are very cheap. Gold was $242 an ounce 20 years ago now it is $2000. Corn was under $2 a bushel in 2005 over $8 a few years later and today in the $3’s. Adjusted for inflation corn is practically free. These commodities had different values at different times reflecting the supply and demand there was for them in the moment.

Up until maybe 1980 or even later a bachelors degree represented excellent value. Few people had them and they were priced very reasonably add in the fun/enjoyable experience of college and it was a complete no brainer. Not going to university in 1982 made very little sense. But slowly schools realized they were selling this golden ticket far too cheaply and coupled with the student loan program from the government things began to change. Suddenly you weren’t a student to be educated, you were a conduit to transfer student loans from the government to the university. They didn’t care if they chewed you up and spit you out and left your life ruined by non dischargeable student loan debt. You had served your purpose. So somewhere around 2000 I would say as a pure commodity a bachelors degree went from a dramatically underpriced commodity to a dramatically overpriced commodity. They were like the internet stock bubble of 1999. It seemed that it happened almost overnight. I didnt know of anyone who trouble with student loans to where everyone had trouble with student loans. However the Educational institutions had managed to transform themselves into more of a De Beers rather than an Exxon. Where through clever marketing you are made to feel like 4-6 years of your life and hundreds of thousands dollar are a necessary sacrifice for success, much like a certain percentage of your annual wage is necessary for an engagement ring. In the meantime their are millions of diamonds sitting in Debeers drawers off the market so they create the illusion of scarcity. In reality the market is already flooded. Not only has a bachelors degree gotten incredibly expensive the market is flooded giving them (exceptions exist of course) very little differentiating value when applying for a job.

So the question is as a commodity what is a degree worth? That is a question only the individual can answer as there are some variables from person to person, but I would say as a broad generalization they take too long for what you learn and are far too expensive. In addition with so many amazing online tools the information is for the most part freely available. So you are really paying merely for verification that you have learned something. The experience and conacts you gain are harder to put a price on but that can also be done on your own. Again exceptions apply if you have a free ride to Harvard you are insane not to go, if you are paying full retail at an unknown private school you are equally insane.

 

[NT2]

Over the last 6 months I have read a lot of comments condemning college and associating it with the slow lane mentality. Why is this?

I understand the hate for college debt and the increasing cost of education. Is it the systems fault though for these kids to take out huge loans on shitty degrees with no future planned or their own fault with maybe some help from their parents?

My education helped put me where I am today and without it I probably wouldn't be where I am or even the fast lane mindset. I learned responsibility without the high cost of losing a business, effective communication, general problem solving, and countless more. I partied with the best of them, and actually learned early that alcohol and calculus doesn't mix well Monday- Thursday lol. However I had a plan and intentionally chose engineering for the career options and typically higher income. I chose the petroleum industry, specifically field based, so I could earn much more and work less days than a typical 9-5 job. Some of this was probably my upbringing and my parents do earn a lot of credit in this, but they are 100% slow lane and that is fine. I surely do not hate them for this and seeing their missed opportunities for businesses that they backed out on set a fire under me to be different.

For the "seasoned " members of this forum. What is your advice for all of the young new entrepreneurs joining the forum?

Most businesses are not profitable right away. It can take years to find your right niche and figure out how to serve it. In the meantime, I don't see anything wrong with a regular job. As long as you realize you'll have to use your spare time and money getting something else going. Most decent jobs require a degree. Not because you can't do the job without it, but as a way of weeding people out. The college experience (pre Covid anyway) is also valuable for making those early professional connections. Everyone has to figure out their own path.

 

[The-J]

Jack Edwards made this same thread like 7 years ago and it's gold. Why must this dead horse be beaten again?

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[humananalytics]

In this era the opening for good slowlane job is probably a lot less than 20 years ago (when the clients you mentioned just started working and they are in their 40s and 50s now).

I really have a scary hunch that working for yourself is not really Just “an upgrade into wealth acceleration and personal freedom” like what is advocated in the fastlane spirit. As the world is changing rapidly for most slowlaners Will get screwed very badly very soon. The writings have been on the wall since global financial crisis in 2008. It is actually “work for yourself or get slaughtered soon” for a lot of people. I don’t really have the research or numbers to really back this wild claim but it does seem that things are happening this way.

I share many of the same sentiments that you do.

1) If you're exceptionally talented, there's really no need to delay. However, I still believe waiting until a few more years are under your belt can be critical, depending on what you want to start and where you stand with your current emotional maturity. For high-barrier of entry businesses, this is huge.

2) Many people will HAVE to be entrepreneurs. Not even by choice or the desire to go Fastlane, but to survive. I've been able observe many corporate businesses through my job. Average middle age employees who aren't able to rise to the top of the corporate pyramid will get screwed. When layoffs come, they are the first to go and can't get rehired. No one wants a 50 year old middle manager who isn't good enough to make it to the top ranks of leadership and also can't do lower level work as well as someone in their 20s.

You have to keep climbing the corporate ladder to be safe, and there are less spots at each level. In the past, high growth in the US and generally high global growth meant significant opportunities to reach the next step. But it's not the case anymore.

 

[biophase]

I think the main issue most fastlaners have with college is its cost.

It's graduating with a huge debt load that any other normal 22 year old would never have.

It's being saddled with student loan repayments for 30 years.

It's that the ROI is not worth it for many degrees.

It's not the actual going to college part, it's the cost.

 

[Sethamus]

Around here, the reason college is bashed so much is because we understand that college isn't what sets you up to be free.

There's nuance to this discussion, and that's why I think it's so contentious.

Sure, you can go to school, get in a lot of debt/pay a lot of money, and go get a job that pays the bills. But the point of MJ's work, as I see it, Is to give you the tools to actually set you free (as free as you can be in our free range society).

College just doesn't teach you that. It's not in their interest to do that. They want to milk out your education as long as they can (4-5 years undergrad, gen eds that you've taken for 13 years prior, graduate school and higher degrees), And make you become a stable tax/debt paying citizen, because the federally (tax payer) backed student loans system requires it to not collapse. Any mass deviation from that is dangerous.

Obviously, some people absolutely need school. Doctors, lawyers, you probably already know who needs a degree.

And if you go to school like most people, and live on loans for 4-5 years, you come out with 5-6 figure debt numbers as a 22 year old kid. Pair that with a consumption mind set that is perpetuated throughout society (the new grad who buys a $40,000 car to celebrate his new job), And you're on the hamster wheel of paying bills from consumption without production.

Not only that, but the obvious political biases, indoctrination, blatant marxism, and the echo chambers that dont allow free thinking, I think college sucks for most people. They don't have your best interest in mind. I absolutely am biased, by the way. I dropped out and have been working on making my way to freedom ever since.

Heck, most of my friends who have 4 year degrees aren't even in the career field they studied in college. They're at jobs they could have gotten a year out of high school.

Compare that to trade school, where you learn relevant skills to the career you choose, as well as get in the trenches as an apprentice, all for a small fraction of money and time that a college education costs.

If you personally found value in your education, good I'm glad. I don't think its the best path for most people though.

It is going to be a personal decision for everyone on whether it is the best decision or not. I guess I am biased as well because most of my college friends didn't really have any debt. We either had scholarships, worked to pay it off as we attended, or both. A good local state college isn't really that expensive. $~11k in tuition and besides basic living expenses and some classroom supplies it can be paid for while working. A lot harder without any support, but doable.

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[James Klymus]

It is going to be a personal decision for everyone on whether it is the best decision or not. I guess I am biased as well because most of my college friends didn't really have any debt. We either had scholarships, worked to pay it off as we attended, or both. A good local state college isn't really that expensive. $~11k in tuition and besides basic living expenses and some classroom supplies it can be paid for while working. A lot harder without any support, but doable.

I agree with you. Unfortunately, a lot of parents will want their kids to go to big name schools out of state. When I went to school I went to a local college and paid cash too. A lot of people go to a big name school without a scholarship just for the clout.

 

[Sethamus]

Backpedaling much. The title of this thread is literally "skipping college is not going to make you fastlane". And now you're saying that wasn't the intention of the thread lol.

So a thread title means everything? Sorry my copy sucks.
Where does it say college will make you fastlane? When your only response to an open ended question is pointed towards me personally and whether or not I have a million in net worth. How is that helpful to the discussion? That is why I blasted your a$$ in your own quote about being a dropout and nothing to fall back on. If someone going through this thread reads your comments, then they need to understand where it is coming from. I gladly shared I'm unemployed when you asked, hazard of the industry and something that has happened once before. I prepared for it like always and have zero worries right now about income. Could you lose a job for 3+ months and make it, how about longer?

First paragraph of my post:

Over the last 6 months I have read a lot of comments condemning college and associating it with the slow lane mentality. Why is this?

The last paragraph of the first post:

For the "seasoned " members of this forum. What is your advice for all of the young new entrepreneurs joining the forum?

Where did I argue that college is the only way to the fastlane?

 

[Sethamus]

Jack Edwards made this same thread like 7 years ago and it's gold. Why must this dead horse be beaten again?

I'm sorry, I have only been on for less than a year. Haven't read every single gold thread..or I would have just beat the dead horse over on that one.

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[Sethamus]

I agree with you. Unfortunately, a lot of parents will want their kids to go to big name schools out of state. When I went to school I went to a local college and paid cash too. A lot of people go to a big name school without a scholarship just for the clout.

True...parents always know best right? Haha
For someone not 100% sure on college @Envision comment is a great middle ground. As he saw value later on after working and starting businesses he cashflowed his way through with a purpose.

 

[fastlanedoll]

I guess I'm biased too because I got out without any debt, and I don't personally know anyone who got out with debt... or maybe they're just not vocal about it, who knows.

But yea, if you're stuck paying for it for 30 years (yikes!), you're definitely better off without it.

I guess what it comes down to is..
1) What your natural skills are
2) Whether you can get out without debt, if not, how much debt are we talking
3) How much you can earn with your degree

The more you have of 1, the less giving you are with 2. How much you tolerate of 2 is proportional to the amount of 3.

 

[AFMKelvin]

So a thread title means everything? Sorry my copy sucks.
Where does it say college will make you fastlane? When your only response to an open ended question is pointed towards me personally and whether or not I have a million in net worth. How is that helpful to the discussion? That is why I blasted your a$$ in your own quote about being a dropout and nothing to fall back on. If someone going through this thread reads your comments, then they need to understand where it is coming from. I gladly shared I'm unemployed when you asked, hazard of the industry and something that has happened once before. I prepared for it like always and have zero worries right now about income. Could you lose a job for 3+ months and make it, how about longer?

First paragraph of my post:
The last paragraph of the first post:


Where did I argue that college is the only way to the fastlane?

Maybe you should've paid more attention in writing class. But the title is the most important piece of any writing. For example your title is "Opinion: Skipping College Is Not Going To Make You Fastlane." That sets the stage to what the thread will be about. If I pick up a book about butterflies I expect to read about them in that book. And a title is not copy don't get them confuse.

Maybe you should change the title to "Introduction: Sharing My Life's Story." That's all you're doing throughout the thread just talking about yourself. For example you been unemployed has no correlation to anything in a conversation about college or been fastlane. And no I never asked you if you were unemployed.

I asked you if you were fastlane or a millionaire to answer your question of why college is condemned or associated as slowlane on this forum. You answered that you were neither of the two. That was the answer as to why people on this forum look down on college when it comes to been fastlane or a millionaire because college or no college has no effect on becoming fastlane or a millionaire.

Also no you did not blast my a$$ with anything. It's only your perception that me been a dropout is a negative thing for which you can blast my a$$ with lol.

Also you keep going off topic and asking me how long can I last without employment? Again what does that have to do with fastlane or been a millionaire? You're more worried about job security and savings in your bank account above all else. Not so much about going fastlane. Maybe you should change the title to "Opinion: I'm glad I went to college for job security and comfort."

Also take the time to read the thread you quoted me from. I was pondering how much different would it had been if I went to college instead of dropping out. And the members of this forum were kind enough to give me some insights and the answer was that it wouldn't be so different because the majority of 27 year olds college or no college are not making over 50k a month.

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[Chx]

As a high school junior, the college shitstorm is coming to me at full blast. I'm starting to see how much of a Scripted dogma it really is.

Nowadays, all my friends and peers talk about is college admissions. They talk about which teachers write the best letter of recommendation. They ask people to join their bullshit nonprofit that only looks nice and charitable on paper. Worst of all is when people lie and cheat and sabotage each other to hurt the competition at top colleges. College admissions is poison under the guise of self-improvement.

This is SCRIPT through and through. Signing your life and free will away to others' perception of what is best (what will get you in college).

With that said I do believe there are some benefits to college:
1. Social experience
2. A STEM degree will make me a better problem solver
3. Network of students
4. Degree

Is this worth 240k? Absolutely not.

There's a program that gives you a full ride to a state school (you can choose from Houston, Alabama, Florida, and some others) if you have good enough test scores. I'm most likely going to take this opportunity.

College can be worth it. Just don't sign your life away -- either through debt or by sucking up to others for 6 years.

 

[Sethamus]

Maybe you should've paid more attention in writing class. But the title is the most important piece of any writing. For example your title is "Opinion: Skipping College Is Not Going To Make You Fastlane." That sets the stage to what the thread will be about. If I pick up a book about butterflies I expect to read about them in that book. And a title is not copy don't get them confuse.

Maybe you should change the title to "Introduction: Sharing My Life's Story." That's all you're doing throughout the thread just talking about yourself. For example you been unemployed has no correlation to anything in a conversation about college or been fastlane. And no I never asked you if you were unemployed.

I asked you if you were fastlane or a millionaire to answer your question of why college is condemned or associated as slowlane on this forum. You answered that you were neither of the two. That was the answer as to why people on this forum look down on college when it comes to been fastlane or a millionaire because college or no college has no effect on becoming fastlane or a millionaire.

Also no you did not blast my a$$ with anything. It's only your perception that me been a dropout is a negative thing for which you can blast my a$$ with lol.

Also you keep going off topic and asking me how long can I last without employment? Again what does that have to do with fastlane or been a millionaire? You're more worried about job security and savings in your bank account above all else. Not so much about going fastlane. Maybe you should change the title to "Opinion: I'm glad I went to college for job security and comfort."

Also take the time to read the thread you quoted me from. I was pondering how much different would it had been if I went to college instead of dropping out. And the members of this forum were kind enough to give me some insights and the answer was that it wouldn't be so different because the majority of 27 year olds college or no college are not making over 50k a month.

New title:Opinion: Skipping college isn't going to make you fastlane, but going could make it easier when you fail!
PS. If you have a plan.
PPS. If you don't rack up debt.
PPPS. No college might work as well!

Better?

 

[Deleted74925]

My dad has never made more than 30k annually. He has worked as a janitor/trashman/handyman for 30 years. I went to college to "get a skill" as he always told me to. I chose a financial math degree because I wanted to get a job. And that was successful.

There's no black and white answer, but here are my thoughts:

Advantages:
- A better resume, which helps to get that entry-level job. GPA made up for lack of experience for me.
- Mentors - I was motivated by other hard-working students and by professors. I was not there to party but to get a job.
- Free money. In my case, I got a lot of financial aid and so college was a great deal. I went to community college for the first two years and had it 100% paid for.
- Friends/social connections/sports/fun

Disadvantages:
- A dependent, spoon-feed-me-this mindset. My state college prided itself on it's cafeteria food. I'd eat dinner every day that would cost $25/plate if I were to buy it elsewhere and I didn't have a job! I was earning $0 but taking out thousands. I never learned to save and still have trouble not spending money.
- Focuses on the grades instead of the actual value delivered! Instead of "how useful is this thing that you built", the question is "how well did you do all of the homework questions exactly as I told you to?"
- Opportunity cost - How many useless homework assignments did I waste hundreds of hours on when I could have been working on a business? Thousands! I was required to take "General Education" requirements - like Sociology and Humor Studies - absolutely worthless classes that consumed my life.
- Comfort and insolution. I had never really failed. The worst that happened to me was that I would get a bad grade on a course. Compare this to being an entrepreneur where making a mistake can mean bankrupcy, deleting your entire web server, getting ripped off or scammed, etc.

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[WabiSabi]

Worst of all is when people lie and cheat and sabotage each other to hurt the competition at top colleges. College admissions is poison under the guise of self-improvement.

Ugh, I had flashbacks reading this, so many people trying to screw each other for peanuts. Doesn't end after college either, office politics can destroy your "career" at the drop of a hat.

People in 1985 were competing with people who worked in factories, it probably made it a better value. Nowadays, College is better than NO PLAN, but it still jeopardizes your freedom to another entity. I'd probably still recommend it for real world experience.

 

[Rabby]

I actually managed to apply my Master's degree to business. In retrospect, I could have learned anything in that degree by reading obscure textbooks, but I probably would not have discovered the field (Instructional Technology) or the written material about it had I not been in college.

I'm not sure having a degree, as in the piece of paper, has ever been decisive for me, so I probably could have audited some interesting classes, or searched a course catalog for interesting fields and the required texts, and maybe that would have been more efficient. Or maybe not, who knows.

The big issue I see though, is that people look at degrees like "tickets." If you have one, you're admitted to jobs. It's a passive outlook. Once you stand in line for a while and get the piece of paper, people will give you jobs. Then they'll tell you what to do, and you'll follow instructions and receive money. Amazing cars and sexy people in fine clothing will appear out of nowhere and your fantasies will be somehow mysteriously consummated.

But education is something you should pursue in order to multiply your effectiveness, not to attach credentials to yourself -- except in a few fields where credentials are the only way to enter the field... and even then, you would do well to think about the actual learning, as opposed to the credential. How will you apply it? What can you do with it, publish because of it, or what hurdles will you use your knowledge and experience to clear in the near future?

I'm also guilty of bad-mouthing 'college', I think, even though I value knowledge and learning above most other things. But it's so common to hear people say "I don't know what to do, so I'll just go get a degree." Like it's magic, they'll suddenly know what to do with their lives. I think you should know what you're doing first, and if you need education to do that, go ahead and pursue the education.

 

[sparechange]

I think the thing about skipping college is more about time, you basically trade a few years to get a degree that is almost useless, MJ mentioned in the books after completing his degrees he was a bum scrubbing toilets.

You can get any crappy job even without a degree or highschool and hustle on a business in the free time you have. All of us are here because we own/or are starting a business, TIME is much better spent working on our own business.

Call me crazy but some people have it backwards on the forum, there are people out in the world that have made 6 or 7 figures in the first few years starting a business.

What is a better use of time............?

4 years in school (while losing money)

or WORST case scenario FAILING at a business(s) for 4 years? Maybe I'm nuts but that's my opinion.

Needing money to start a business is a stupid myth, you can support yourself with a crappy job to pay rent and food, live like a monk in the process and grind out a startup. Let's run some math, I'll even use Vancouver which is one of the most expensive cities on the planet (moving to another place would save money)

Minimum wage here is $14.60, a fulltime job nets about $2kish after taxes. You can rent a crappy small room around town for lets say $650 (which I'm paying now) Food expenses let's say $400.

So that's about $950 a month you can ''save'' ok well, you need to deduct transportation I guess and some other small things maybe. Let's just pretend you are left with $500 a month, now you can squeeze out a budget and maybe starve for a bit on ramen noodles if you are an extremist, and come up with a few grand after months of saving. Does ANYONE really need more than a couple grand to start a business?

Even if you are running E commerce (my space) Ordering products at most will be roughly a few hundred bucks, a shopify store for about $40 bucks a month, some advertising costs etc You are under $1k. In my example above it would take only 2 months to save up. Keep in mind my example is being in Vancouver, cost of living is much cheaper in other parts of Canada and afaik the US is way cheaper than here.

If someone can't make a business work on a couple grand, they will not make it work with 10 grand, or 20 grand and so on. Another extremist example which I don't recommenced although there are some nutjobs out there even fiance a business on credit cards/loans.

So in my opinion, yes screw college, the only thing it's useful for barring you don't desire a career in law/medical fields is all the boozed up college mud wrestling bikini contests and crazy parties that cost 5-6 figures in loans, to which you end up working at Starbucks anyways to pay it all off, which you could of just worked at after highschool.

Using the minimum wage example again, if you lived at home (age 19 or so) and worked fulltime and part-time on a business while working at Starbucks, you could make and save mid 5 figures in the same 4 years.

Who would be better off? Someone with mid 5 figures in the bank with business experience?

Or the person that spent 4 years in college *hoping* to get a semi decent job that will most likely give them depression, chain them in with a semi decent salary and benefits breeding comfort and mediocrity, just yesterday someone made a post they are to tired after work to even do some things required for starting up a biz. Doesn't sound like a winning formula to me, and unlike the kid that saved 5 figures from working at Starbucks, the college attendee is going to be BROKE and in DEBT at the end of 4 years.

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[Kevin88660]

I share many of the same sentiments that you do.

1) If you're exceptionally talented, there's really no need to delay. However, I still believe waiting until a few more years are under your belt can be critical, depending on what you want to start and where you stand with your current emotional maturity. For high-barrier of entry businesses, this is huge.

2) Many people will HAVE to be entrepreneurs. Not even by choice or the desire to go Fastlane, but to survive. I've been able observe many corporate businesses through my job. Average middle age employees who aren't able to rise to the top of the corporate pyramid will get screwed. When layoffs come, they are the first to go and can't get rehired. No one wants a 50 year old middle manager who isn't good enough to make it to the top ranks of leadership and also can't do lower level work as well as someone in their 20s.

You have to keep climbing the corporate ladder to be safe, and there are less spots at each level. In the past, high growth in the US and generally high global growth meant significant opportunities to reach the next step. But it's not the case anymore.

I think the thing about skipping college is more about time, you basically trade a few years to get a degree that is almost useless, MJ mentioned in the books after completing his degrees he was a bum scrubbing toilets.

You can get any crappy job even without a degree or highschool and hustle on a business in the free time you have. All of us are here because we own/or are starting a business, TIME is much better spent working on our own business.

Call me crazy but some people have it backwards on the forum, there are people out in the world that have made 6 or 7 figures in the first few years starting a business.

What is a better use of time............?

4 years in school (while losing money)

or WORST case scenario FAILING at a business(s) for 4 years? Maybe I'm nuts but that's my opinion.

Needing money to start a business is a stupid myth, you can support yourself with a crappy job to pay rent and food, live like a monk in the process and grind out a startup. Let's run some math, I'll even use Vancouver which is one of the most expensive cities on the planet (moving to another place would save money)

Minimum wage here is $14.60, a fulltime job nets about $2kish after taxes. You can rent a crappy small room around town for lets say $650 (which I'm paying now) Food expenses let's say $400.

So that's about $950 a month you can ''save'' ok well, you need to deduct transportation I guess and some other small things maybe. Let's just pretend you are left with $500 a month, now you can squeeze out a budget and maybe starve for a bit on ramen noodles if you are an extremist, and come up with a few grand after months of saving. Does ANYONE really need more than a couple grand to start a business?

Even if you are running E commerce (my space) Ordering products at most will be roughly a few hundred bucks, a shopify store for about $40 bucks a month, some advertising costs etc You are under $1k. In my example above it would take only 2 months to save up. Keep in mind my example is being in Vancouver, cost of living is much cheaper in other parts of Canada and afaik the US is way cheaper than here.

If someone can't make a business work on a couple grand, they will not make it work with 10 grand, or 20 grand and so on. Another extremist example which I don't recommenced although there are some nutjobs out there even fiance a business on credit cards/loans.

So in my opinion, yes screw college, the only thing it's useful for barring you don't desire a career in law/medical fields is all the boozed up college mud wrestling bikini contests and crazy parties that cost 5-6 figures in loans, to which you end up working at Starbucks anyways to pay it all off, which you could of just worked at after highschool.

Using the minimum wage example again, if you lived at home (age 19 or so) and worked fulltime and part-time on a business while working at Starbucks, you could make and save mid 5 figures in the same 4 years.

Who would be better off? Someone with mid 5 figures in the bank with business experience?

Or the person that spent 4 years in college *hoping* to get a semi decent job that will most likely give them depression, chain them in with a semi decent salary and benefits breeding comfort and mediocrity, just yesterday someone made a post they are to tired after work to even do some things required for starting up a biz. Doesn't sound like a winning formula to me.

Totally agree if we could have a 35 year old with his knowledge, experience and maturity retained going back in time to his former 18 years old body and redo it over again.

18 years old: why am I not famous after uploading two videos on youtube.

 

[Vadim26]

I think the thing about skipping college is more about time, you basically trade a few years to get a degree that is almost useless, MJ mentioned in the books after completing his degrees he was a bum scrubbing toilets.

You can get any crappy job even without a degree or highschool and hustle on a business in the free time you have. All of us are here because we own/or are starting a business, TIME is much better spent working on our own business.

Call me crazy but some people have it backwards on the forum, there are people out in the world that have made 6 or 7 figures in the first few years starting a business.

What is a better use of time............?

4 years in school (while losing money)

or WORST case scenario FAILING at a business(s) for 4 years? Maybe I'm nuts but that's my opinion.

Needing money to start a business is a stupid myth, you can support yourself with a crappy job to pay rent and food, live like a monk in the process and grind out a startup. Let's run some math, I'll even use Vancouver which is one of the most expensive cities on the planet (moving to another place would save money)

Minimum wage here is $14.60, a fulltime job nets about $2kish after taxes. You can rent a crappy small room around town for lets say $650 (which I'm paying now) Food expenses let's say $400.

So that's about $950 a month you can ''save'' ok well, you need to deduct transportation I guess and some other small things maybe. Let's just pretend you are left with $500 a month, now you can squeeze out a budget and maybe starve for a bit on ramen noodles if you are an extremist, and come up with a few grand after months of saving. Does ANYONE really need more than a couple grand to start a business?

Even if you are running E commerce (my space) Ordering products at most will be roughly a few hundred bucks, a shopify store for about $40 bucks a month, some advertising costs etc You are under $1k. In my example above it would take only 2 months to save up. Keep in mind my example is being in Vancouver, cost of living is much cheaper in other parts of Canada and afaik the US is way cheaper than here.

If someone can't make a business work on a couple grand, they will not make it work with 10 grand, or 20 grand and so on. Another extremist example which I don't recommenced although there are some nutjobs out there even fiance a business on credit cards/loans.

So in my opinion, yes screw college, the only thing it's useful for barring you don't desire a career in law/medical fields is all the boozed up college mud wrestling bikini contests and crazy parties that cost 5-6 figures in loans, to which you end up working at Starbucks anyways to pay it all off, which you could of just worked at after highschool.

Using the minimum wage example again, if you lived at home (age 19 or so) and worked fulltime and part-time on a business while working at Starbucks, you could make and save mid 5 figures in the same 4 years.

Who would be better off? Someone with mid 5 figures in the bank with business experience?

Or the person that spent 4 years in college *hoping* to get a semi decent job that will most likely give them depression, chain them in with a semi decent salary and benefits breeding comfort and mediocrity, just yesterday someone made a post they are to tired after work to even do some things required for starting up a biz. Doesn't sound like a winning formula to me.

Off-topic...

I just jumped on craigslist.vancouver and there are indeed places for 600-650... I couldn't believe it.
It's time I move out from a box where I pay 950 to something in the 600 range.

Thank you for this lol.

 

[Nigel B]

It is going to be a personal decision for everyone on whether it is the best decision or not. I guess I am biased as well because most of my college friends didn't really have any debt. We either had scholarships, worked to pay it off as we attended, or both. A good local state college isn't really that expensive. $~11k in tuition and besides basic living expenses and some classroom supplies it can be paid for while working. A lot harder without any support, but doable.

If CO schools were that price the discussion would be different. They are not, and for many/most that is not the price of college in the US today.

I have no college degree because I started earning money in the computer industry at 12 - but that was possible back in the late 70's when the bar to produce saleable games was low. It wa easy to transition to good corporate work later (but still before most US students graduate their '4-year' program today).

The Script (IMO) is that you go to college and this somehow translates to a 'successful' career. Ability to learn, apply what is learned and good work ethic is the only real way to be 'successful'.

Too many people buy an expensive degree (often with their parents money), cannot even get a job in the field - realize after some extended time it was "not their passion", go back to school for another 100K or so of education and debt and finally get on the right path (or worse the next step in the slowlane).

College is GREAT. If you know what you want to do AND you need a degree to do it. Taking animals (or humans) apart to figure out how they work is not legal nor a viable learning path - however there are very capable programmers who have not left high school and will get really slowed down by going to college. Tech is still an industry where experience, knowledge and practical training trump a degree for many - not all - but many. Now being a founder of a tech company, as noted by others usually comes on the back of significant achievement - there are the outliers, but the norm is 40+ founders, not 18 year olds dropping college in the first year.

There are amazing individuals who work construction, electrical, etc. who do not need a degree to do what they do- have little to no debt (indeed get paid to learn) and earn more than average by the time they are in their 30's. These guys often found and run what most would call a small business, but it's quite enough for their personal wealth and financial security. Once they have others working for them, and are not trading their time/health directly for dollars they are out of the slowlane.

Being fastlane is (IMO) questioning the system, not following the herd - and making the choices which make you successful.

College for some, not for others. College should not (IMO) be the default filler between high school and success - it should be a deliberate choice which supports planned success. For too many kids it's just a way of avoiding deciding what to do. Decide, work in a few arenas, figure out what you are good at and want to do - and then if necessary get a degree in that field. Don't follow mommy and daddy's pressure to be a doc, lawyer, vet - and don't get an MBA at age 22, because you don't know much to help any business (unless you go to a school with really good networking andc an get a job through that rather than on actual add-value to the business).

For you loving being at home with your kid is a current definition of success - that's cool (albeit you may find that 'gap' negatively impacts your future 'success' if you stay in the system - as so many others have over the years). Given you are not a millionaire doing that, it means your thinking was different to some others around here who prioritised financial freedom to have the flexibility to do that, with no need to worry about returning to work after - if they chose not to. Or perhaps you have financial freedom, but your definition did not require a millionaire status.

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[Kak]

The government absorbing all of the student loans is what made this expensive. They will lend to anyone, for any major, irrespective of the ability to pay it back.

Free market or even portfolio lending for college would have higher interest rates and lower availability across the board. Which, believe it or not, would be a VERY good thing. These are not collateralized loans. There is no reason the interest rates should be as low as asset based lending like a home or car.

If you were a banker that might have to hold the debt unless another banker wanted to buy it... What would you say if someone came to you with a request for 50k to get a degree in aboriginal dance theory? You would say no.

On the other hand... If they came to you wanting to be an engineer, you might give them the money at an interest rate that makes sense for you given the risk.

The same can be said for doctor, lawyer, or businessperson.

A free market on the financing side of this will go a long way into shaping people into what the economy is demanding most and driving down the cost of tuition. This would make everything more efficient and it would happen without force.

The problem is getting from here to there. We are already addicted to cheap and abundant money. There would be SEVERE withdrawal symptoms... But everything would normalize under the new market conditions eventually.

If I was the banker, I would also make it performance based. Like insurance companies make your insurance rates based on your driving record. If you prove yourself to be an A student, you are lower risk and could refinance at a lower rate.

The 15 Things They Didn't Teach Me In Business School - Ep 48 by Kill Bigger Radio with Kyle Keegan • A podcast on Anchor I recorded this yesterday, I didn't address the loan problem... But I did talk about what business school left out.

 

[Jon L]

I've bad-mouthed college a lot, but am changing my mind about it.

The negatives: College lets you get a degree without really learning all that much. This was what I did. I did the minimum required to get a 3.0 or so GPA. Now, 20 years later, I couldn't even come up with a list of classes I took, much less what I learned in them. College also is monolithic when it comes to political ideology. That part, I find disturbing.

Now, on to the good part.

There are a large number of incredibly smart people at college. If you really challenge yourself, making it a goal to become as much of an expert as you can, in each class you take, college is an incredible opportunity to learn. Attend office hours, ask challenging questions, really seek to understand, apply yourself.

I'm going to go against what everyone else here says. (and what I've said in the past). I don't think it much matters what field you study. Find a major you find fascinating, and get REALLY good at it. Let's say you picked classical literature. You might ask, 'what the hell does learning Latin have to do with anything that will make me money in life?' Here's your answer: learn the why's behind the history. Why did Plato become so famous? Who influenced Epictetus, and why? What made him the way he was, and what would have happened if he would have focused on other things? Why do historians emphasize certain facts and not others? What worldview do they use, and what if they used an Eastern worldview as opposed to a Western one? ... etc. Do you think that your professors would engage with you if you asked those questions?

Learning this way would do two things:
1) You can check off the 'I have a degree' check mark on a job application.
2) You'd know how to get really good at a particular subject - use that ability to get really good at building a business.

 

[Ocean Man]

Sethamus, I think it honestly depends.

Life isn't the same for anyone.

If you have something going on, if have some business or side-hustle going on that is doing well and college is just sucking up your time. Then go ahead and go do that business or side-hustle.

You have to obviously smart about it... It's like asking the question, "When should I quit my job to work on my business? Should I just go full-time on my business and immediately quit my job to pursue my business that doesn't have have one customer?"

It's all about decisions. Do you feel like your business is providing a better ROI than school? If not, then stay at school (if school provides a better ROI)?

Do I believe that skipping college automatically makes you a fastlaner? No.

If you're not in college/university and you don't have anything going on, being lazy, not learning outside of school... then what the hell are you doing?

I believe in educating yourself outside of school and being a continuous life-long learner. Reading new books, learning about new subjects, and continuously growing.

Skipping school might make you fastlane if you've got something great going on, but if you're not doing anything at all, not learning... then you're just wasting your time.

But I also don't agree that everyone should go to school.

I hope you're able to understand where I'm coming from. I believe people should stop discrediting college completely. College is good for some people, doctors, lawyers, etc... But at the same time, there's a lot of things wrong with colleges and a lot of people shouldn't be going.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------​

(Here are my rambling thoughts about attending university/college. You don't have to read this.)
I feel like many people attend college, not because they want to but, because that's what they're told they're supposed to do or that's the norm.

For example, the script:
- Graduate from elementary school,
- Graduate from middle/junior school,
- Graduate from High School (get your permit during your time here),
What's next?
Well the typically, the next thing our friends, government, and family members would tell us is to go to college or university. It doesn't matter if you know what you want to do or why you're going to college/university.

Just go because everyone else is going.

How many times have you heard this scenario?

Person B: Now that you've graduated High School, it's time for you to enroll into college/university.
Person A: (Responds with):

• I don't know what I want to do.
• I don't know what classes I'd even want to take.
• I'm not even sure what I'd like to major in.
• I don't have enough money.

Person B: (Responds with):

• That's okay, just go. Nobody really knows what they want to do in college, just go and take random classes.
• Take out a loan, everybody else does it.
• If you don't, then you're going to get behind everyone else.
• You're not going to get a good paying job.

Why do we have to play, keeping up with the Kardashians with everyone else. Why do I have to spend thousands of dollars on classes that I don't even know if I'm interested in taking. Why do I have to attend college/university if I'm aimless? Just because everyone else is doing it doesn't mean I have to either. In what world does giving a 19 year old a $50,000 loan seem acceptable? Especially if they don't even know what they want to do.

I'm sick and tired of keeping up with the Kardashians and everyone else.

Let me think for myself.

Why do I have to listen to other people about what the best path in life is? How does another person know that university/college will be the best thing for me?

Life isn't so cookie cutter.

At this point, I'm rambling but I'm trying to get my thoughts written down. I feel like people don't think for themselves. They expect to follow some plan, maybe the governments plan or the family's plan on how they should live their own life.

That's why you see so many people attending college/university. Not because they know what they want to do. But because they've been told that they should do that and everyone else is doing that. And if you're not doing it then you're going to fail. This BS indoctrination.

​

I'm not necessarily against school, I believe the people such as doctors, lawyers, etc... should go there to learn. But not everybody should go.

Actually, next month is my first quarter. I'm going back after 3-4 years out of college. I've had a lot of time thinking it over and figured out what I wanted to do.

I have a purpose.

I have a goal.

I know that getting my degree in a specific field will not only be a good ROI, but will help in other faucets of my life.

I don't want to necessarily discourage people from going to university/college. Instead, I want to encourage people to be free-thinkers. Think for yourself and about your goals. Find out what you want to do and if college/university is the right avenue to help you achieve that goal/dream.

I'll end this long ramble with a quote,

“There are no evil thoughts except one: the refusal to think.”
— Francisco d'Anconia

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[Bruno Calisso]

Academia started as an ideal of empowering people, nowdays it is a ponzi scheme that empowers the banking system, the education lobby and the state via taxes and rat racers. All at the cost of clueless young people who don't know exactly what to do with their lives, nowdays all it does is getting them broke and some crappy job, it is essential for our society, but not for people that want more than a 9-5 job. Skill learning is great, though you can learn so many skills faster on the internet today and try new businesses and make much more money without that expensive sacrifice for a useless piece of paper.

 

[Gasyhustler]

True !
Here in my country, studying in the university is a must whether you want to follow the slowlane path or the fastlane one.
It is a great way to be introduced to various topic of interest in life and many fastlaners became so because of what they studied in college.