Occupy Wallstreet Thoughts

[Kak]

You are going to have inequality no matter what the system is.

I would argue that inequality is fair. Some people make themselves worth more to society. So the more valueable people make more money. Especially more than a complaining wall street protestor. The protestor is not providing any value to society.

This not about greed of rich people. These poor people are being the greedy ones. They are trying to take from the rich for themselves. The funny thing is they also ignore government greed.

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[Anon3587x]

Inequality is an inherent feature of a wild reality.

 

[Rickson9]

You are going to have inequality no matter what the system is.

+1

Exactly. This is why there is no solution and that civilizations will rise and fall ad infinitum.

There's no solution, so why do people keep pushing either side of the debate?

Some ego's need to be right.

 

[Anon3587x]

This is why there is no solution and that civilizations will rise and fall ad infinitum.

Civilizations rise and fall because inheriting generations stray away from their founding principles.

Ex. The United States

 

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[Rickson9]

Civilizations rise and fall because generations who inherit these organisms stray away from the excellence and basic foundation it was created with.

Ex. AMERICA!

I'm very annoyed with people who consider equality a grand practice of spiritual and intellectual greatness.

Equality isn't possible because equality is based on perception and perception is too fickle. That's why civilizations collapse and will always collapse. Nothing can stop that.

 

[Kak]

That's why you need to arm yourself to the teeth.

I have about $3000 of stuff I need to still buy before I am content with my armory.

Then it is ammo for birthdays and Christmas.

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[AlphariusOmegon]

The situation: Two generations of 1st world kids were told that if they worked hard in school, worked themselves even harder in college and stayed out of real trouble they could find themselves living the dream - a nice house, nice car, and employment in a field of their choosing. They were told that if they didn't work hard, go to college, etc... they'd end up flipping burgers for minimum wage. So they did what most people would - they went to college and worked hard so they could one day make a living for themselves. The problem is, the advice they were given every day for decades turned out to be a lie - the only jobs available for them upon graduating college were flippin' burgers.

The market: Millions of students are graduating college only to find that it was for nothing - not only are they competing for the same jobs they could have gotten out of high school, they're often overqualified for the work they're applying for. Employers don't even want to hire them - who wants to hire someone who's still going to be looking for another job asap?
The market is the millions who feel cheated by advice/propaganda they were (and for many, still are) given from day one. (Isn't the fastlane all about saying the advice we've all been given our entire lives is bull? These are just people looking at a similar problem and coming up with a different solution.)

The trend: As there isn't a solution to the problem, the number of people stuck in this position is going to continue to grow. The protesters are going to get more sympathy because they're at least doing something other than begrudging the unfairness of the time they happened to be born in while settling for less.
The trend is that this is going to keep building momentum - the number of college grads who will have worked their butts off for a sheet of paper and empty promises is only going to keep growing.

Now that we have a market identified we can work on finding a solution to a problem that they'd be willing to pay for. You can spend all your time complaining about them, or you can look at them like any other market that has a problem to be solved - for a price.

 

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[AlphariusOmegon]

Actually, there's a decent article on Foreign Policy right now titled "The Accidental Capitalists" which mulls over some potential benefits of the Occupy movement. It's worth a read to anyone interested.

 

[Sky]

Sorry Guys, Jay-Z beat yall to it. But, not without a cost.

Jay-Z Can't Occupy All Streets, Yanks T-Shirts From Rocawear Website - E! Online

 

[Pete799p]

Gotta love a true entrepreneur like jay z

 

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[Kak]

Haha the 1% making money off these goons isn't it fitting...

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[^eagle^]

I'm surprised this thread has gone this far! Six pages at 40 Posts per page! Anyone want to buy some tires to get their car to the next rally?
For wat its worth....
I'm pretty much in line with Peter Schiff. It's The Government and the Feds fault. Not Wall Street. But Yesterdays violence in NY made me cringe and shudder for my country.

The end. Back to tires!

FYI: http://www.saveamericafoundation.com/2011/11/18/an-open-letter-from-the-saf-to-pam-bondi-by-mr-paul-st-john/






:smug2:

 

[^eagle^]

Open Letter to a Landlord- Living Colour - YouTube

 

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[mrhahn]

But, not without a cost.

What was the cost exactly?

Props to Jay-Z, true hustler

 

[Red]

This is the most well-written & succinct summation of why the movement started -despite what the media shows you on television.

Wall Street Isn't Winning It's Cheating | Matt Taibbi | Rolling Stone

 

[troyfawkes]

I don't think anything is going to be accomplished by OWS. It's too disorganized for anyone to support it politically. If I said, "I support OWS" and tried to run for president, a hundred different manifestos like the "abolish all debts" one on the first page would come out against me. In fact, if I say "Wall Street acted wrongly" now, I'll be confronted with the same arguments.

It's probably really hard to be a benign politician right now. Which is sad, because it means that the momentum for change from the crash is being used up counter-productively by OWS.

Good job though, yoga in the park sounds like a fun way to irreparably hurt your nation.

 

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[SitesForSales]

What they intended:
- to cause changes that would have the criminal element of certain corporations ( Directors )
to actually be held accountable for their crimes... and they affect most of us on this forum
in one way or another.

What they accomplished:
- they let such folks know that there are enough people unhappy about the
current state of affairs and that they will seek out and cause investigations
for criminal activities that affect the majority of people.

Their biggest problem to overcome:
- most of the protestors did not know exactly why they were there.
- they did not pick a certain corporation on which they could focus
so that they could have defined goals measurable accomplishments.

Personally, I'd like to see congressmen and senators go to jail when
they take a payment and lobby/support/vote for any payer, or when
they have conflict of interest ( eg. family / friends ) involved regardless
of what it is. Preventing payments and nepotism keeps judgements
clear and also allows the most truly beneficial solutions for all.

 

[InMotion]

They don't know WHO to blame

But don't go nuts trying to figure out the intricacies of it.

Most also don't know "what" to blame. Listen to those who have seen it before...history repeats itself, especially in the realm of distribution of resources. This has been so since records existed, and it will happen again and again. Theories aside, if you want to do great things in life then go do them and ignore the political and civil discourse. Believing the game is rigged, even if its true, wont get you there. The greats always acted in spite of the odds.

 

[Vigilante]

The article posted by Red (above) is one of the most poorly written articles I have read on OWS. It's pure revisionist history. The problems chronicled in the article are accurate... but to attribute that high level intelligence to the OWS movement would be akin to stating that someone who won the lottery did so because they calculated the mathematical probabilities and outsmarted the system.

Early on, the average OWS "protestor" at best had no idea why they were there, other than the fact that they were against "the man" who was repressing them. It then morphed into a Lord of the Flies hierarchy, as will any lawless and structureless organization. And lastly, putting it to it's death was the revelation that it was simply a group of vagabonds. They turned on each other, with the kitchen managers mad that the homeless people wanted some of "their" food, and the drum core wanting some of the donation money for new skins, sticks, and stands. In short, they quickly became what they professed to despise.

If you want something, Red, that you won't hear from the media...try THAT message.

There IS wealth disparity in the United States. You can either sit around and wait for an entitlement program to come your way while you lament those who got "lucky" or you can get off your a$$, blaze your own path, and become.

 

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[Rickson9]

I enjoyed this article.

A rich american destroys the fiction that rich people create jobs

Speaking for myself, I believe that for me it's been luck. Only my ego would believe otherwise.

 

[Vigilante]

Rickson... if you want the exact opposite view of what the island in that article might look like, read Atlas Shrugged.

 

[Forza]

Only 1.4 million households in the US are earning $343,927 or more? I think several factors such as, hard work, persistence, education, intelligence, social skill, knowledge, secrecy, innovation, a fastlane idea, timing, and the luck to have enough of the things just listed, must be needed to get through such a small bottleneck.

 

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[Melissmo]

SHHDlove I agree. I think they might be hoping that wall street will give them another handout since protesting is easier then entrepreneurship.

It comes down to the fact that somebody else is always at fault :smxB:. 99% of people will do everything in there power to not take responsibility for their action, situation, even health.

My gosh I sooooooooooo cannot disagree with you both here,I reside in the caribbean and I was following it also, some of my relatives who reside in NY actually agreed "Yes, the rich should pay more in taxes than the poor" I looked at them in disbelief and blew them up for talking such smack. So because a guy/gal decides to do things different and work their way up the wealth ladder by not being lazy and waiting for Gov't to handout some other free gig, they should be penalized into paying more in taxes to cover people's lazy attitude? How selfish. No one gives you the opportunity to be poor other than yourself. Ok, so maybe not everyone will/has been privileged to gain wealth via fastlane status, but there are still ppl who are getting off their lazy butts and making life happen, yet still they should be penalized for their successes?! Soooo not cool.

I agree with you both!

 

[Melissmo]

Only 1.4 million households in the US are earning $343,927 or more? I think several factors such as, hard work, persistence, education, intelligence, social skill, knowledge, secrecy, innovation, a fastlane idea, timing, and the luck to have enough of the things just listed, must be needed to get through such a small bottleneck.

The crazy thing about it though is that most ppl prefer to choose being lazy and risk opportunities of wealth just so they don't have to "lift a finger". Everything you mentioned will definitely assist in living a fulfilling, free life, yet most ppl just look at it and say - yeh rite! I guess because of all the lies they've been fed by Society!

 

[kwerner]

Not this damn thread again...

 

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[Forza]

The crazy thing about it though is that most ppl prefer to choose being lazy and risk opportunities of wealth just so they don't have to "lift a finger". Everything you mentioned will definitely assist in living a fulfilling, free life, yet most ppl just look at it and say - yeh rite! I guess because of all the lies they've been fed by Society!

True, however if everyone tried to get on the fastlane the bottleneck would likely stay very very small. Lies or no lies it seems the millionaire statistic would stay pretty much the same.

But to get through you probably have to ignore this reality and press forward. Then if you do get through, you'll probably say it's all BS and anyone can do it with enough hard work (ok, maybe not you personally)

 

[BeingChewsie]

Only 1.4 million households in the US are earning $343,927 or more? I think several factors such as, hard work, persistence, education, intelligence, social skill, knowledge, secrecy, innovation, a fastlane idea, timing, and the luck to have enough of the things just listed, must be needed to get through such a small bottleneck.

No. No. No. Only 1.4 million households are reporting that much or more, according to that statistic. That is why the advice is to always have a really good tax attorney who hires you a really good accountant.

My husband makes part of his living teaching people how to diminish their tax burdens and perhaps more importantly how to protect their assets (he uses his JD and 20+ years of law experience for good not evil :smxB and what he very often says is that "one wants to work for a very wealthy corporation while personally being able to qualify for food stamps". That is sort of said tongue-in-cheek, but you get the idea.

Don't think for a second that making that kind of money is so hard that only 1.4 million households in the US are doing it. It is the beauty of our tax laws here in the US that makes it "look" that way.

I hope this isn't too far off topic of the thread, I just wanted to address that "statistic" and the idea that the number represents some almost unbreachable barrier or some statistically significant bottleneck, it does not. It is just that once you get up into those incomes you have tools available in the form of very good attorneys and accountants that can and should be assisting you in seriously diminishing your burden.

Sue

 

[Forza]

No. No. No. Only 1.4 million households are reporting that much or more, according to that statistic. That is why the advice is to always have a really good tax attorney who hires you a really good accountant.

My husband makes part of his living teaching people how to diminish their tax burdens and perhaps more importantly how to protect their assets (he uses his JD and 20+ years of law experience for good not evil :smxB and what he very often says is that "one wants to work for a very wealthy corporation while personally being able to qualify for food stamps". That is sort of said tongue-in-cheek, but you get the idea.

Don't think for a second that making that kind of money is so hard that only 1.4 million households in the US are doing it. It is the beauty of our tax laws here in the US that makes it "look" that way.

I hope this isn't too far off topic of the thread, I just wanted to address that "statistic" and the idea that the number represents some almost unbreachable barrier or some statistically significant bottleneck, it does not. It is just that once you get up into those incomes you have tools available in the form of very good attorneys and accountants that can and should be assisting you in seriously diminishing your burden.

If the number of households with $5m or more was 0.3% in 2006, what do you think would be the actual percentage today?

 

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[DeletedUser394]

Not this damn thread again...

She'll never die! (unfortunately...)

 

[Forza]

I'm not a millionaire. I'm also rather pessimistic by many people's standards (especially on this forum). However, here's something you may find helpful whether you're a Wallstreet Occupier or an entrepreneur.

If you can justify an appropriate level of confidence somewhere along your entrepreneurial journey (not hubris or arrogance), then you would know you have a strong chance of making millions.

The surest way to get that confidence is likely found through 'DOING', not focusing on 'getting', or 'being'.

A focus on 'getting'/'having' makes you a bit like the Occupy Wallstreet protesters. They don't get anything.

A focus on 'being', doesn't really make much sense to me because most people can't decide to go from say, sad to happy just like that. You have to trigger the feelings you want, and that means doing something.

'Doing' things, especially things where you push your limits, creates mental fortitude, good feelings, and a certain kind of social presence when you interact with others. And it gets you through the bottleneck with less luck than if your focus were on 'getting' or 'being'. That said, even if you don't end up making millions, the least that you will get from doing what you truly want is a fulfilled life (assuming you live in a developed country).