Occupy Wallstreet Thoughts

[GlobalWealth]

Honestly, I wasn't trying to point fingers. Because I am probably more guilty of bending the No Politics rule than anyone.

No worries here. I was intentionally trying to stay non-political and deal directly with issues, but I can see how tempers can flare.

 

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[GlobalWealth]

Coming from someone who studies the credit crises of 07-08,

I too have studied this situation in depth and have even given lectures to a couple of different universities in Europe explaining my viewpoint.

The banks were playing with fire. the problems were in the derivatives, CDS`s, CDO`s and other exotic financial products which were NOT regulated. Most of the bankers and regulators did not even understand them.

They relied on false models. they believed the housing market would NEVER tank.

The banks also repackaged these mortgages and sold them off, they never actually held them to maturity. there was such a big demand for this product that once they ran out of good borrowers, they just lent to anyone. After all, they weren't holding them for long anyways.

You are missing a huge part of the story here. In reality, there was legislation that gave major incentives for the banks to do business like this. In other words, the banks were playing the best hand with the cards that were dealt.

I agree that the banks and other institutions were being overly speculative with their lending practices, but it really goes back to their incentives, which were legislated.

Had the underlying assets been higher quality, the derivatives wouldn't have been an issue. It was the underlying assets that caused the problem and they were poor quality because of legislation that gave incentives for banks to make lower quality loans.

I would be happy to discuss this at length offline, but frankly it is too long of a story to share on the forum.

Then AIG was insuring losses on mortgages beyond what they could possibly pay.

Agreed. This was either the result of poor business decision making, or outright fraud. Considering the close relationship with Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, I am inclined to lean toward fraud.

Defaults are looked at in a weird way as well. Within the last 60+ years its rare, but go back into history, and see how many countries have defaulted and how many times. You will be shocked.

In reality you don't need to go back that far. Just in the past 20 years Russia, Argentina and a few others have defaulted. In the past 80 Greece has defaulted twice.

But I agree that people's memory isn't that long. Most people have no idea that governments all around the world have defaulted.

 

[Finance]

Not that I've read all 10 pages of this (I read about three), but I have read "The Millionaire Fastlane" and I do believe in the principles DeMarco espoused and it all boils down to one thing: Taking responsibility.

---------------------------------------

Life isn't just fair, it's brutally fair. It rewards the crafty and most tenacious, those who have their hands out will always lose them to those who are putting their hands to work. You can't change the system, because the system is nature itself.


Wealth, power, influence... Whatever you want to call it--it will always gravitate to the most cunning and forceful.


So if you don't like it, change... Because nature isn't going to change for you.

 

[GlobalWealth]

Life isn't just fair, it's brutally fair.

Great quote. speed.

 

[Illusion]

I too have studied this situation in depth and have even given lectures to a couple of different universities in Europe explaining my viewpoint.










You are missing a huge part of the story here. In reality, there was legislation that gave major incentives for the banks to do business like this. In other words, the banks were playing the best hand with the cards that were dealt.

I agree that the banks and other institutions were being overly speculative with their lending practices, but it really goes back to their incentives, which were legislated.

Had the underlying assets been higher quality, the derivatives wouldn't have been an issue. It was the underlying assets that caused the problem and they were poor quality because of legislation that gave incentives for banks to make lower quality loans.

I would be happy to discuss this at length offline, but frankly it is too long of a story to share on the forum.




Agreed. This was either the result of poor business decision making, or outright fraud. Considering the close relationship with Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, I am inclined to lean toward fraud.




In reality you don't need to go back that far. Just in the past 20 years Russia, Argentina and a few others have defaulted. In the past 80 Greece has defaulted twice.

But I agree that people's memory isn't that long. Most people have no idea that governments all around the world have defaulted.

Still studying this stuff, im sure you know more then me!

 

[Rickson9]

If an individual believes that the laws of physics govern the chemistry in their brain, then there is no scientific explanation for the existence of free will. The 99% have as good a chance of 'changing their attitude' as much as the 1%. Just enjoy the show, participants, and arguments that have repeated itself in history ad infinitum.

 

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[Kak]

This is just like Woodstock. Hahaha how long did it take thm to leave? It will probably be very similar.

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[ronniebryan]

Hello, Forum members, Looks like you got a good discussion here. How many of you watched on your televisions last week about the Gov. of Louisiana? I agree , that some of the protestors have not done their research,and may be asking for things that make no sense. All, I am asking is that the Government do what they say, they are going to dur, nations unemployment is at an all time high, were are the new jobs? raising taxes is not going to create more jobs, or even help lower our deficit.

What got me involved in the movement, was reading how Veteran benefits were being cut, how the unemployment rate has soared, and how the Obama, administration is pushing for increased taxes.

I was also, not to thrilled that some Corporations, that got bail out money, only, used it to pay their CEO.

What I believe the majority of protestor's are wanting, is that those of us who are lower, or middle class, have equal representation . We are not against Corporations making money, all that we want is to cut capital spending, create more state jobs, and be allowed to have an opinion shared through out the Government, on issues that impact Nation(s) local and at a global level.

 

[GlobalWealth]

Whew, we finally have a clear explanation of what OWS is all about. Enjoy.

Haftin' To Be Uproared - Occupy Atlanta - YouTube

 

[G_Alexander]

Damn bank...always lending me money for things.

And now I have to pay it back??? WHAAA??? GAAHHHHDDD!!! This is outrageous! Somebody call the fire department!

 

[lleone]

Anybody working like a dog out there want to help this guy out....

actual quote from OWS protestor Toronto's stock exchange:

It's weird protesting on Bay Street. You get there at 9 a.m.
and the rich bankers who you want to hurl insults at and
change their world view have been at work for two hours
already. And then when it's time to go, they're still there! I
guess that's why they call them the one per cent. I mean, who
wants to work those kinds of hours? That's the power of greed.

- Jeremy, 38

 

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[Bozigian]

Alex Green on OWS

Alex Green on OWS - Pastebin.com

".When a lion escapes from the zoo and injures someone, you don't blame the lion. You blame the lion keeper. Federal regulators had all the tools they needed to protect us - and failed to use them. Now they're blaming it on investment banks and "millionaires and billionaires." And the Occupy Wall Street crowd is buying it.
Aside from aiding and abetting the recent the financial crisis, Congressmen in both political parties have grossly mismanaged the nation's finances, running up trillions in debt and tens of trillions more in unfunded liabilities. (The debt now amounts to more than $1 million per taxpayer.) For a better picture of this fiasco, click here to see the National Debt Clock.

In short, rich people and Wall Street firms aren't responsible for this state of affairs. Free-spending Congressmen are. Someone should tell the Wall Street occupiers to pick up camp and move over to 1st St and East Capitol, the address of the Capitol Building.

Between protests they might also pick up a book by Adam Smith, Friedrich Hayek, or Milton Friedman. According to Douglas Shoen, a former pollster for Bill Clinton, surveys of the Occupy Wall Street protesters show they overwhelmingly favor "opposition to free market capitalism and support for radical redistribution of wealth, intense regulation of the private sector and protectionist policies to keep American jobs from going overseas."

This didn't work in the 1930s. And it won't work today.

If voters, out of misguided populist anger, elect representatives who endorse these policies... well, at the very least it won't be good for your stock portfolio.

Next year's elections may well be the most important of your lifetime. Some Americans believe business is responsible for the country's economic woes. Others believe it's government.

I say, "Let's vote."

 

[Rickson9]

"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote." - Ben Franklin

 

[Beef Supreme]

This whole "movement" seems to be finally collapsing under its own weight. So many of them with nothing more than unfocused rage against a vaguely defined "1%" and "the banks" and "capitalism" and no solutions to offer. They can't even manage to get along with each other.

 

[Kak]

Yeah people don't really care and I see it fizzing out totally before December. It will be too cold for em Haha.

Nothing like a nice warm corperation.

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[DirectInc_Becky]

It might be helpful to review these charts before commenting on the movement: CHARTS: Here's What The Wall Street Protesters Are So Angry About...

I think many people have an image in their head of who these protesters are and automatically discount their views. I see a lot of responses that say: "Just get a job". The question is, how? And, furthermore will that job even pay a living wage?

The protesters aren't against people who are successful, or who own their own businesses. They are protesting that the %1 of the nation holds 40% of the wealth. They are also against a system that allows wealth to so heavily influence our government's decisions.

 

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[Pinnacle]

On a non-political note - because Lord knows I have plenty to say about it as do all of you - this is an extraordinary opportunity to introduce fresh and up-to-date financial education into peoples' lives.

They don't necessarily have to join the Fastlane...because some people just don't want the responsibility of it...but helping people develop unique financial intelligence: like things related to cash flowing assets, cash flow management, and purchasing power can help tear down the class system and eliminate the haves/have nots environment.

I made a huge turn in my personal fastlane progress. My pursuits are the same, but my approach to implementing them have been modified.

My contribution to this will be with original personal redevelopment books that I write and have written.

It's an exciting time, folks!

 

[Anon3587x]

I talked to a college student about this (last night) who said the 'occupy movement' is starting at his campus in a few days.

What I gathered from it was, people are mad about something but they are not sure exactly 'what' it is they are mad about. He said 'change' is coming, but couldn't explain exactly what it was.

 

[Kak]

This is like the internal vs external locust of control test. These OWS people are 100% external. They take no personal responsibility for their financial termoil. So now they blame rich people for not giving them money.

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[Illusion]

Peter Schiff making these people look stupid:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=UGL-Ex1CD1c#!

 

[Rickson9]

Peter Schiff making these people look stupid:


Peter Schiff Speaks for 1 Percent at Occupy Wall Street - YouTube!

Another 1% who isn't solution oriented and doesn't really understand (understanding generally doesn't involve making others look or feel 'stupid'). Nothing new here.

You can't find a solution without empathy and in this case, there is none.

This issue isn't about 'winning'. It's about understanding. And both sides are failing.

As a 1%er myself, I feel embarassed for Peter. I don't feel that he represents the 1% well, but that's just my opinion.

 

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[458]

Reminds me of the war on a certain noun that cannot be won.

 

[Anon3587x]

Funny thing is, anytime I find myself slightly affiliated with any type of organization or movement I ask myself; ok? what the hell am I doing here? and then I walk away. It is hard for me to stay disillusioned for extended periods of time.

p.s that video is hard to watch with the word 'greedy' being thrown around so much.

 

[Kak]

How much money do you need to be a 1%er?

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[Anon3587x]

How much money do you need to be a 1%er?

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$1,000

 

[Russ H]

. . . (sigh) . . .

I hesitate to post anything to this thread, as part of me would love to see it die and float to the bottom . . .

Two things:

1. I have a friend of a friend who has gotten VERY rich by NOT protesting taxes. His motto is "show me the tax!!!". He looks at all possible ways of making $$$, and reasons (correctly) that many investors have an almost emotional aversion to paying taxes. Not him. He does his ROI, and often jumps in w/both feet, pays whatever taxes are necessary, and makes a bundle.

2. It has been pointed out, but bears repeating: The smart wealthy don't pay as many taxes as they "should" or to put it better: When tax laws are passed which make the middle and lower classes feel better, oftentimes the taxes actually *decrease* on the wealthy, while the lower classes pay more. This is done through tax shelters, loopholes, etc.

The trick here is to make the middle class *feel* like they're redistributing the taxes, and that others (ie, the wealthy) are now going to pay *more* tax.

But the reality is that the wealthy don't pay close to what is announced/implemented, because they are savvy to the game, and figure out loopholes and ways to avoid paying taxes.

The exception to the above is stupid people w/money (eg, lottery winners, celebreties, some sports stars, etc), which feed the whole game, as they complain (on TV, online, etc) about how much money they pay in taxes.

The smart wealthy (w/tax loopholes) just smile, and let this whole system work.

*****

All that being said, let me now say this:

I support a tax increase, for the above reasons.

Those of you about to jump on my last statement: PLEASE RE-READ my entire post, to avoid looking like a doo-doo head.

-Russ H.

 

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[Kak]

You can never assure that Russ.

What are these protestors doing that gets them out of their financial troubles? Bitching about rich people and arguing for legalized theft. We should have a flat tax for everyone. Right now we have a voting majority of people that do not pay taxes. That is the heart of the problem.

On top of that the government doesn't need any more money. They need to figure out how to spend less, giveing them more money is like investing in fricking con.

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[Giles]

The following image is great! (click to enlarge)

 

[The-J]

people who work on wall street are not the problem. the problem is the banks buying out our politicians in order to allow them to use depositor's money in risky off-shore investments. it's not even the banks investing that's the problem, it's the fact that the banks (and other huge corporations such as Koch Industries) have the power to essentially influence the making of the rules. they take politicians and give them a couple thousand to have their opinion heard, whereas the 99% does not have their opinion heard simply because they are broke.

i support occupy wall street as a budding investor and entrepreneur. i support tax hikes for the rich and manufacturing regulations for corporations. i do not support socialism or communism. and the sad fact is, when you have so many people gathering at protests like these, you are bound to have people who don't know what they want or what they are talking about fighting and representing the real issue, which is hidden from all the bullshit. truth is, the people are mad and they want change. but do they know what they want to change, or do they only know that they are too broke to afford the newest apple product?

 

[Rem]

Well this will be the last reply to this post since i normally kill threads. But here it goes. The problem is only an illusion orchestrated by a group of evil global leaders seeking to control the entire world. They need to do this through education, the economy, religion, wars, etc. There are many organizations today that are used as vehicles to bring this overall goal to fruition. If you look at all of these organizations and see who is behind them all, it begins to make sense, like putting a big puzzle together.

So to sound more like a delusional freak, there really isnt' much you can do, except be smart, work on your fastlane goals by staying clear of the main stream educational system where they teach you to join the herd and run straight for the slaughter. Pick your own life, and don't get caught up in what the system wants you to be as a person. Because some day you are gonna get old and you are going to ask yourself what you did in this world. Did you make a difference? Did you sit around and bitch a lot? What will be YOUR legacy?