Occupy Wallstreet Thoughts

[CarrieW]

I am not saying dont help people. I love the whole micro business loan idea for citizens of poverty stricken countries. These people can start little businesses for as little as 50 bucks.

I also donate over 5k per year to charities that I think are good causes. MUCH BETTER CAUSES than paying for a pothead's dinner.

Get off your high horse. You are not a better person because you can vote away other people's money. THE ONLY WAY this would ever be fair is if there would be a flat percentage tax on everyone. Then see how the lower middle class parents that are putting their kids through college feel about paying for weed smoking hector's filet Mignon at the grocery store

what high horse?

Id rather see the money go to people in this country that need it rather then see it go other places. its like the rule of putting your own oxygen mask on before you do the kids... you have to take care of yourself before you can take care of anyone else.

I come from a lower class family and I can tell you most people I know either didnt go to college or paid for it themselves. and they all pay taxes too... and they all complain about people who dont deserve a handout getting one just like you do.

or beliefs arent really that far apart. I really think you guys are reading alot of things into what I say that isnt there.

 

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[Kak]

Ok Carrie a flat tax is respectable. Really, but I believe in helping people from the bottom up not letting the government take more from productive citizens and let it trickle down being deminished all the way until 90% of the shit they took went to a bureaucrat's salary.

 

[CarrieW]

Originally Posted by CarrieW

and just fyi if your so rich and you dont like it here no more when they are done adjusting shit... leave! at least you have a choice! go to a country where the rich live like kings and everyone else lives without food and clean water and starves to death in huts and tents as you ignore it. there are places like that you know.
I hate when people say this sort of thing when I voice my opinion about certain policies.

If I was to reply with the equal intention that you had when saying this, I would say, If you can't provide for yourself, how about you just die.

doh /:

what I meant by this part of my post was if you dont like that this is a democracy and that things are supposed to be voted in by majority and, if you dont like what majority says then the only option you have as someone put it earlier is to take all your toys and leave...

and theres a difference. if your starving and someone interveins you wont die, you dont have the choice to starve you just do...or you steal something to eat and to feed your starving kids. even if you had a choice in it those innocent children dont.

so taking all your toys and leaving is a choice. if someone tries to intervein you tell them to F*ck off and keep going.


its the choice that makes a difference.

some people really are born into situations from which there isnt very much likelyhood they will ever recover from poverty.

and its not the same intention at all. and I resent the implication. I am not capable of intending to be that cruel to you or anyone else.

 

[CarrieW]

Ok Carrie a flat tax is respectable. Really, but I believe in helping people from the bottom up not letting the government take more from productive citizens and let it trickle down being deminished all the way until 90% of the shit they took went to a bureaucrat's salary

and I agree with this statement 100%!

 

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[Kak]

I honestly believe in the goodness of our people. If there were NO social safety nets at all, people would be just fine. Maybe even better because people like me could afford to donate more than I already do. But I get to pick things that get my money and its effectiveness is not diluted, which is a lot more easy for me to root out people that don't deserve help. The majority of people getting handouts don't deserve crap.

You help the right people, I one day wish to pay for a child's entire treatment of some disease. On the other hand I would never give a drunken hobo a dime.

 

[Anon3587x]

some people really are born into situations from which there isnt very much likelyhood they will ever recover from poverty.

I was born in poverty because my family didn't provide value to society. It sucks, oh well.

and its not the same intention at all. and I resent the implication. I am not capable of intending to be that cruel to you or anyone else.

Try not to talk if you're angry.

 

[DeletedUser394]

Stopped reading this 4 pages ago.

FFS, get off the damn internet and make some money or do something of some value. (doesn't apply to GlobalWealth and any other successful person.

13 hours work/trading today and I net ~$1,500. STFU and DO SOMETHING.

Also to note that people's word means almost nothing. It's a rare value for someone to keep their word. When you say you're done with a thread, or anything at all (hopefully more important) ACTUALLY FOLLOW THROUGH. Make your word count for something.

And yes, now I'm done. And yes, my word is a promise and actually means something.

The end.

 

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[Pete799p]

I know a lot of people who either work for the government or have and they all say the same thing. Waste waste waste.

I have had construction workers told to slow down or go home early because the construction company would get in trouble if they finished the job too early or their workers worked too hard. My friend stopped doing government jobs because of this, he could not take the slow pace. In the union they call anybody on a big government construction project biscuit because they are soaking up all of the gravy "work".

I have herd government agencies buying plasma tv back years ago when they were expensive for no reason to the point where they would be sitting still in their boxes in a back room with no where to put them. I have herd of officers spending government funding to buy new trucks so they could drive them.

I have had friends told that they needed to find way to spend $x amount from a fund because if they did not the government would take the money away. Have you every been in the middle of no ware, no cell, on a dirt road and randomly seen a speed limit sign and a bunch of other signage when there has not been another sign for 40mi. That is because that town had to find something to spend that money on so it was not taken away next year. Let put a sign in the middle of no where because that will take a lot of time and resources to help spend that money.

The list goes on and on. There is plenty of money to go around the government needs to learn how to spend it wisely.

 

[GlobalWealth]

what I think is fair is everyone pays the same % reguardless of if its earned income or capital gains or corporate profits. thats the only way its truly fair. only have the same things needed to survive as whatever entity you are that can be deducted as a write off.

Ok, now we're talking. In principle I agree. I completely disagree that capital gains or corporations should be taxed though, but for economic reasons.

A tax creates a disincentive. For example, you add a $3/pack tax to cigarettes and cigarette smoking declines. The same holds true for capital gains tax. You have a capgains tax and the incentive to invest in productive assets declines.

If you want to truly unlock the productive capital in the US, follow Russia's lead from 2010 and eliminate the capital gains tax altogether. America would see an huge influx of investment capital which would result in more jobs (income tax) and more consumption (sales tax).

I would also like to see corporate tax completely eliminated. The reality is that corporate tax is just an additional tax on individuals as the cost is merely passed down the line. It also creates inefficiencies in the company trying to maintain tax compliance through huge legal and accounting teams. Eliminate the corporate tax and you eliminate this department altogether which frees up the company resources for productive hiring, R&D, etc.

Personally, I would like to see something like a 15% flat personal income tax on earnings over $15k plus a 10% national sales tax (just an example with numbers). Based on my preliminary numbers from looking at GDP and current income, this plan would actually produce an increase in tax revenue. Eliminate the writeoffs and loopholes. Completely simplify and eliminate the dread that comes ever year in April.

Obviously the argument here is that this type of tax would be regressive in nature. In other words it would burden the lower and middle income people more than the upper income levels. However, the lower and middle income class are the ones to reap big rewards here with dramatically lower unemployment levels when the wealthy decide its now safe and profitable to invest in the US.

its not fair to say how much anyone else has. or to say here you have more so share with the class hell if I earned more I want more. actually screw want, I deserve more.

Amen.

reform/rebuild the tax system or better yet start from frickin scratch to get rid of the rediciolus spending on shit we dont really need and spend it on things that makes the country a better/safer/cleaner/more productive place to live for everyone.

Amen.

 

[GlobalWealth]

If there were NO social safety nets at all, people would be just fine.

Spoken like a true free market capitalist. Bravo.

 

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[GlobalWealth]

FFS, get off the damn internet and make some money or do something of some value. (doesn't apply to GlobalWealth and any other successful person.

Good point, for me as well. But quite frankly, this type of stuff gives me ammo for my writing. But sometimes it is unproductive and I have to just shut off.

13 hours work/trading today and I net ~$1,500. STFU and DO SOMETHING.

Way to go bro. Awesome.

 

[CarrieW]

ryan drake

how about I am on the internet trading forex. granted I havent made money with it yet but I will.

I can only trade so many trades at a time and its still slow going (for me)and I dont need to stare at the chart every minute of the day so I do other shit online. I currently trade 5 pairs at a time.

so imo u need to stfu.

and I cant go out and work at a "job" right now. I wish I could but I cant. you have no right to judge me or anything I say or do. you dont know me. I want to say something to you right now that isnt very nice so Ill end the post here and try to keep it civil for the sake of others on the board.

 

[Anon3587x]

so imo u need to stfu.

Seems that you are at war with everyone in this thread. Take it easy.

 

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[CarrieW]

But he started it! lol

I was just replying with what he said to me/other posters. using his own words against him as it were.(i just watched pirates lol)

as previously quoted by global.

 

[Anon3587x]

Global is is a turd swirling down the toilet.

 

[MooreMillions]

What many don't understand, whether they side with the protestors or not, is that it is not a battle against capitalism. That is what we have been led to believe. It's corporatism...and that is an animal that no one individual is going to be able to alter.

 

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[SHHDlove]

I just want to go on the record and say that while I was the one to start this thread, I was just interested in what people thought and imagined that it would only take one or two posts to fully explained your thoughts on occupy wallstreet. I did not imagine this would become a 9+ thread.

 

[Kak]

Congrtat on the 9 page thread.

May i suggest that we stop giving the occupy walstreet fools the attention they are obviously looking for and ignorr them. Maybe they will go away if everyone stops caring.

 

[kwerner]

I skimmed through the last few pages of this thread and now I realize why MJ and the Mods initiated the No Politics rule.
It all makes sense now.

 

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[Likwid24]

Occupy Your Creative Mind

 

[Likwid24]

Occupy The Giant Within You

 

[Likwid24]

Occupy Your Path to the Fastlane!

 

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[Likwid24]

DON'T Occupy this thread anymore. Let's End this BS! Waste of time!

 

[The-J]

my $.02 (because that's all i can afford):

although people don't necessarily know what they are fighting for or what they are mad about, all they know is that they are mad. just like RussH said: they are angry and they will take it to the streets.

it's funny: this isn't the first time this has happened. people learn the lesson by the lesson and not by the instructional method. people are mad at something, but why can't people learn that history repeats itself? most people who were struck by this were uninformed. not only were they uninformed, most of them did nothing to appease their personal situation. i think the real lesson here is to know what's going on and make sure whatever happens affects you, your family and your loved ones as little as possible. if you look at every revolution, it started because someone with a powerful voice told the people what they wanted to hear. times were bad and people needed to change them. so the leader would say 'come change the situation with me!' and from there, the situation changed. revolutions are great but very dangerous. they can go either way. for example, the tsarist system in russia worked for hundreds of years. soviet socialism worked for ~70 years. the project was a failure.

what people really need to learn is how to know what is making you mad so a batshit crazy, yet charismatic person doesn't lead you to believe things that aren't always necessarily true. take hitler for example. he told the people that the jews, communism and imperialism were the reason for the bad economy. so he got the people to be against those things (among others). he started, fought in, and lost a war in which over tens of millions of people died. i want to make my situation better by having control of my cashflow and keeping tabs on it as much as possible. i want to help others by creating a system they can benefit from.

occupy wall street people are in debt, have families and no jobs (or many jobs that do not pay them enough). they lost their original skilled jobs, their degree is worthless, their houses were taken away and their standard of living dropped tremendously. there is not ideological thinking behind it: people are F*cking pissed. their lives were, in effect, ruined. they have the right to be mad. sure, they made bad decisions, but they aren't the only ones. this gives them a reason to be mad.

they are pissed at the banks for taking their homes, they are pissed at the corporations for lobbying for unsafe and non-beneficial laws and acts. they are pissed at politicians for allowing the corporations to get away with taking people's money, people's jobs and people's health. they are pissed at obama for not fixing anything. they are pissed at their bosses for giving them the news of their firing, even though their boss was let go 2 months later. they are pissed at their alma mater for taking their money and giving them no certain future in return, like they wanted. their life plan failed. let's be real: that F*cking sucks.

i am a university student. all my friends want to have so-and-so job and they believe their job is recession proof. i want o be an entrepreneur and they tell me "you're going to fail because you won't get enough start-up money. you're going to fail because you don't have the experience." and things of that nature. they want me to fail. they want me to be wrong so they can pretend that they are exceptional for landing a good job and somehow being able to keep it. they believe their college tuition will be paid quickly. i hope for their sake that they are right about their jobs.

but still, they don't understand about the volatility of the job market. art school kids joke about being broke after college then striking it big. finance kids quote the numbers "98% of students land a job OR go to grad school after graduation" and say that they are fine. what happens when the banks get into some real trouble with the government and their deals with foreign banks? what happens when they can't make their money back on foreclosures? their jobs go kaput.

they don't know what control means. they don't know how to use their money to make them money. even investment bankers who make $150k a year don't know how to use their money to invest. it's sad.

tl;dr people need to become more informed and know where their choices may lead them down the line. people need to learn to recognize patterns that they were taught in macroeconomics and history class. and last but not least, people need to be prepared to change their situation if need be.

wow why did i write so much lol and i apologize for the strong language: i think it accentuates the fear and anger of the people.

 

[GlobalWealth]

Don't argue with Global because he is spiteful. If you ever try to add him on FB a few months down the line he won't accept.

Interesting. did I hurt your FB feelings?

 

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[GlobalWealth]

I skimmed through the last few pages of this thread and now I realize why MJ and the Mods initiated the No Politics rule.

Point taken.

 

[Anon3587x]

Interesting. did I hurt your FB feelings?

Sike, you're lame.

 

[SHHDlove]

This makes me smile.

 

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[kwerner]

Point taken.

Honestly, I wasn't trying to point fingers. Because I am probably more guilty of bending the No Politics rule than anyone.
But skimming through the last few pages just made me understand why they put the rule there. It's just too difficult to get others to change their beliefs / convictions. Or not even change, per say, but to a lot of times, even to just see things from another point of view. I too am guilty of this x100.

 

[Illusion]

Coming from someone who studies the credit crises of 07-08,

The banks were playing with fire. the problems were in the derivatives, CDS`s, CDO`s and other exotic financial products which were NOT regulated. Most of the bankers and regulators did not even understand them.

An AMAZING book on this subject is Fool`s good by Gillian Tett.

They relied on false models. they believed the housing market would NEVER tank.

The banks also repackaged these mortgages and sold them off, they never actually held them to maturity. there was such a big demand for this product that once they ran out of good borrowers, they just lent to anyone. After all, they weren't holding them for long anyways.

Then AIG was insuring losses on mortgages beyond what they could possibly pay.

It would take hundreds of pages to explain how and why this happened, but wall street definitely has a big role in screwing up the economy.

Credit was also used stupidly. Its much easier to make money with loose lending policies, except you have to be savvy, not buy yourself a 5000 SQf home and a porsche when you make a 30k salary like people were doing.


Another interesting topic like that guy in the youtube video was talking about, is the concept of FIAT currency.

Defaults are looked at in a weird way as well. Within the last 60+ years its rare, but go back into history, and see how many countries have defaulted and how many times. You will be shocked.

For the people who complain about taxes, come live in Quebec for a year... Voted the most corrupt province by Macleans. You buy something, you pay 13.9%. Income tax up to almost 48% if you make over 50K. Our infrastucture is worse then third world countries, and our government is ultra anti business. I would like to live in the states.


The American mentality has also changed for the worse.

the best way to sum it up would be a quote I once read.

''It used to be give me liberty or give me death, now its just give me.''