My Rant: Tiger Wood's wife getting $750M from divorce..

[emorgan]

I'm loving Red and Russ here-

As someone who married young and had kids, I'm all for Elin! When you put your life on hold and your life becomes taking care of someone else and your family- it's still a job- except you take a huge hit on things like a steady paycheck- which when you become single again- possibly through no fault of your own- the woman should get the shaft? F*ck that.

I understand those who have never been in love or married- take it as a lesson- a lesson in karma. Do the right thing- don't cheat and she won't take you to the f*cking cleaners.

On behalf of women everywhere who put their lives on hold, who subject themselves to public scrutiny based on a man they marry, choose to raise a family and sacrifice everything for it, and then end up a world wide laughing stock- with children still to raise a life to live- I think $100M is the least he can do. She can invest it and still be with her kids. Where could she get a job now?

I'm a big fan of women building businesses and investing- no man, even with money can be trusted. At least the money allows to not be on the streets with kids- wow I'm pissed.

 

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[James Fake]

@Bond - wow. I will have to check credibility on that.

@Luke - never thought about that, maybe that's the real reason for the silence clause.. *makes you wonder*

@emorgan - uh... ? I'm pretty sure I was addressing the amount of money she got being wrong, and not the issue of alimony/post-divorce split itself.

 

[Russ H]

@emorgan - uh... ? I'm pretty sure I was addressing the amount of money she got being wrong, and not the issue of alimony/post-divorce split itself.

James-

Actually, your comments are about money being awarded to someone who has taken on and is honoring a contract (ie, marriage). The fines/fees associated with breaking that contract are what you're contesting.

A contract is a contract. But marriage-- and kids-- are WAY beyond most business contracts. They require extraordinary commitment and the ability to work things out. You don't just "sell the biz" and move on when kids are involved.

Don't like this? No prob. Don't get married. Or have kids.

Your comments and attitudes are from a single person's perspective (who has no kids), so you don't see that what you're saying is just flat out wrong for a person who has made a commitment to marriage/kids.

That's why I suggested we discuss this at a B&P. Your comments sound an awful lot like me, when I was in my 20s and early 30s. No one had ever really taught me about the importance of commitment, and how critical it is if you're raising kids. And while my parents were faithful, they hated living together (and eventually divorced after their kids grew up), so I didn't really have happy role models there, either.

Again, happy to discuss this at length with you. But not in public. I don't want to call you on the naivete' of your remarks.

That's kinda what Erin and Red are doing, but gently. But they're doing it much, much nicer than I would.

-Russ H.

 

[Rem]

People need to man up and follow through on their word. Who is a man that cannot keep his own word? This includes being wise in all your personal investments as well as financial.

If you agree to go into business 50/50 then you agree to split the profits 50/50.

If you agree to marry then you agree to splitting everything 50/50 as it is a partnership.

This means being mature enough to learn what the implications are for going into business with someone or marrying them. If you agree, you can't bail if things go bad. You need to man up to your decision, accept the loss and move on. Even if I don't agree with the laws, once you sign on the dotted line you agree to the terms and are only as good as your word.

 

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[Russ H]

People need to man up and follow through on their word. Who is a man that cannot keep his own word? This includes being wise in all your personal investments as well as financial.

If you agree to go into business 50/50 then you agree to split the profits 50/50.

If you agree to marry then you agree to splitting everything 50/50 as it is a partnership.

This means being mature enough to learn what the implications are for going into business with someone or marrying them. If you agree, you can't bail if things go bad. You need to man up to your decision, accept the loss and move on. Even if I don't agree with the laws, once you sign on the dotted line you agree to the terms and are only as good as your word.

Remdog, I agree w/everything you say-- except the "50/50" part.

I was under that impression too, for years. Until I saw that a LOT of marriages-- and businesses-- that had 50/50 splits wound up breaking up or just having all sorts of problems.

So I started reading about-- and talking to-- people that had long-term successful business ventures and marriages.

That's where the "do more than your share" concept kept coming up-- over and over and over.

Thing is, we never can see EVERYTHING that needs to be done. So chances are if we think we're doing 50%, we're prolly doing more like 30% (since we're not seeing everything). Or, we consider a task someone else is doing as either less important, or something that can be done quickly-- when in fact, neither is true.

From that, I came up with the 80-90% approach: Always be willing to do WAY more than "your share", and make sure you have partners w/the same mindset.

This really does work. You don't wind up having arguments about your partner not doing enough-- and (hopefully) they won't do it to you, either.

As I said earlier, I'm not an expert at this stuff. Just sharing what works for me. :banana:

-Russ H.

 

[GoldenEggs]

In my line of work, I see a lot of disputes, many over business contracts and marriages. And the amounts of money involved are sometimes ridiculously low and ridiculously high. The money itself is irrelevant. It's the emotion behind the demand, the anger, the hurt and betrayal. It's the breaking of one's word or attempting to get around the wording or terms of the contract. At the end of the day, it's not really about the money.

I attended a wedding recently and the emcee was going around, asking for the longest married couples. The emcee asked this one couple who had been married for 30 years for their secret. The husband said, marriage is a give and give, not a give and take. You give your love and yourself, without expectations.

 

[Guest3722A]

attempting to get around the wording or terms of the contract.

This line hit home with me in more ways than one! Wow I love the wisdom on this board!!

rep++++!!!!

 

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[Russ H]

In my line of work, I see a lot of disputes, many over business contracts and marriages. And the amounts of money involved are sometimes ridiculously low and ridiculously high. The money itself is irrelevant. It's the emotion behind the demand, the anger, the hurt and betrayal. It's the breaking of one's word or attempting to get around the wording or terms of the contract. At the end of the day, it's not really about the money.

I attended a wedding recently and the emcee was going around, asking for the longest married couples. The emcee asked this one couple who had been married for 30 years for their secret. The husband said, marriage is a give and give, not a give and take. You give your love and yourself, without expectations.

Awesome post, GoldenEggs.

One of my mentors used to say "a contract is nothing more than a story of how we plan to work together."I thought that really made it clear-- and helped me negotiate and execute work.

The mentor also said: "How that story is written is less important than the intentions and actions of the people working together. If everyone is working towards the same end then the contract is successful. If someone starts working at cross purposes, there are problems.

"But even at that point, you can alter or modify the story (contract) to account for these changes. You just need everyone to agree on those changes and continue to move forward."

Sure has worked for me. *Wanting* to make things work (and being flexible/working at solutions and win-wins) is often key in succeeding.

-Russ H.

 

[Guest3722A]

Awesome post, GoldenEggs.

One of my mentors used to say "a contract is nothing more than a story of how we plan to work together."I thought that really made it clear-- and helped me negotiate and execute work.

The mentor also said: "How that story is written is less important than the intentions and actions of the people working together. If everyone is working towards the same end then the contract is successful. If someone starts working at cross purposes, there are problems.

"But even at that point, you can alter or modify the story (contract) to account for these changes. You just need everyone to agree on those changes and continue to move forward."

Sure has worked for me. *Wanting* to make things work (and being flexible/working at solutions and win-wins) is often key in succeeding.

-Russ H.

What about the slippery slopes of contracts? For example, what if someone enters into a business partnership under an LLC and a wife of one of the partners thinks that since she is married to one of the partners, she has a say so in the business operations?

How should one go about dealing with something like this?

 

[Russ H]

What about the slippery slopes of contracts? For example, what if someone enters into a business partnership under an LLC and a wife of one of the partners thinks that since she is married to one of the partners, she has a say so in the business operations?

How should one go about dealing with something like this?

If the wife considers herself part of the business, and her husband does not disagree, than she is a defacto part of the business. Treat her as you would any partner, unless the other partners tell you not to.

In that case, you've got a potential problem on your hands.

But in most of my design work, the guy hired me but it was the wife who had to be happy w/my designs (the guy was more concerned that he get top performance, which is why I was hired). Wives were often as concerned about performance-- but sometimes not. And when they were not interested in performance, and very interested in decor/appearance, it was my job to make sure they got what they wanted. Or, that everyone got what they wanted.

In other words, I treated them with the same respect and gave them every bit as much attention as the person who had brought me on-- since they were also decision makers.

-Russ H.

 

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[Russ H]

What about the slippery slopes of contracts? For example, what if someone enters into a business partnership under an LLC and a wife of one of the partners thinks that since she is married to one of the partners, she has a say so in the business operations?

How should one go about dealing with something like this?

If the wife considers herself part of the business, and her husband does not disagree, than she is a defacto part of the business. Treat her as you would any partner, unless the other partners tell you not to.

If the other partners tell you not to, you've got a potential problem on your hands.

But in most of my design work, the guy hired me but it was the wife who had to be happy w/my designs (the guy was more concerned that he get top performance, which is why I was hired). Wives were often as concerned about performance-- but sometimes not. And when they were not interested in performance, and very interested in decor/appearance, it was my job to make sure they got what they wanted. Or, that everyone got what they wanted.

In other words, I treated them with the same respect and gave them every bit as much attention as the person who had brought me on-- since they were also decision makers.

Some of them were surprised at this-- I guess they figured I'd try to fight them or ignore them. Once they realized I was "on their side" (ie, as interested in a great looking and wonderfully comfortable home), we had fun. It wasn't always easy, as their aesthetic goals often ran at cross purposes to my acoustical concerns.

But that's what made me better, I think, than a lot of my contemporaries. I was obsessed w/win-wins. I *wanted* the person who initially saw me as "the home wrecker electronics guy" to become my biggest fans/evangelists for my work. There was no better referral than someone who'd say "You know, I thought this guy would totally mess up my house. But he did just the opposite-- I love what he did here."

Sometimes, even if the person seems at cross purposes to your goals, it's a good idea to take them seriously, treat them w/respect, and truly listen to what they have to say-- AND-- to try like crazy to make the whole thing a win-win.

Not always easy. But usually worth it.

-Russ H.

 

[Guest3722A]

Russ, thank you very much and as always, I hold a high amount of respect for you.

My above question goes even deeper now as to what if a partner's wife wants to say, take the company's taxes to someone who charges an excessive amount without informing the founder whereas the founder of the company (who thought he was only taking on one partner)already had a business tax professional who charges a fraction and together the two of them (wife and new partner)don't seem to get the concept of spend a little to make a lot?

There is a difference between positive cash flow v. creating debt as far as the eye can see...right? After all, it is about making money, or am I missing something here?

By the way, I don't know if you even care about rep anymore or if the system will let me give you more, but that's the least I can do for your, as always, excellent and welcome advice.


REP++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[James Fake]

@RussH - would love to attend the next B&P, but can't call it a definite yet.. my schedule is really crazy right now but will jot the date down and try my hardest..

 

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[Russ H]

@RussH - would love to attend the next B&P, but can't call it a definite yet.. my schedule is really crazy right now but will jot the date down and try my hardest..

It would be great to meet you. Moreover, I think you would get a lot out of it. Talking to investors at different levels in their lives/investment plans is really eye-opening.

And it's a lot of fun being a part of the synergy of ideas flying around. :banana:

-Russ H.

 

[Russ H]

Russ, thank you very much and as always, I hold a high amount of respect for you.

My above question goes even deeper now as to what if a partner's wife wants to say, take the company's taxes to someone who charges an excessive amount without informing the founder whereas the founder of the company (who thought he was only taking on one partner)already had a business tax professional who charges a fraction and together the two of them (wife and new partner)don't seem to get the concept of spend a little to make a lot?

There is a difference between positive cash flow v. creating debt as far as the eye can see...right? After all, it is about making money, or am I missing something here?

By the way, I don't know if you even care about rep anymore or if the system will let me give you more, but that's the least I can do for your, as always, excellent and welcome advice.


REP++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thanks for the rep. Yeah, I do care about rep, even tho' I have plenty. Like dollars, I can always use a few more.

I'm not sure about your relationship to this company, so the advice I'm giving is as if you were a trusted financial advisor-- like an acct or person in the company

Sounds like both the wife and new partner need to get up to speed on expenses and the ultimate goals of the biz. Bear in mind that a lot of investment money (if that's what he/she is) does not necessarily know (or even care) about how ROI is generated. They just assume that things will grow, or just get better over time.

For someone like this, a simple spreadsheet can be very effective. Show how changing just one number (like an item cost, or a subcontractor that costs more) can CASCADE and literally wipe out a bottom line. Try to be subtle-- don't make it blatant (ie, don't point the finger at the tax advisor yet).

To do this, get them all together (original founder, new partner, wife) in a casual setting and tell them (ahead of time) you have some ideas on how to make the company more profitable. Do a powerpoint. Show them a few examples of how saving a few pennies on an item they use lots of can really add up. Then show them single expenses-- how if you have an acct that is good, they can save all kinds of money. Show them a few examples.

Again, not sure where you fit in this-- so perhaps I'm giving the wrong advice.

-Russ H.

 

[Guest3722A]

Show how changing just one number (like an item cost, or a subcontractor that costs more) can CASCADE and literally wipe out a bottom line. Try to be subtle-- don't make it blatant (ie, don't point the finger at the tax advisor yet).

Oooops... too late! :smug2: Any advice on where someone can get help with people skills? Is it just patience and an understanding of what makes people tick that is needed?

And I understand what you meant by how some assume that investment will grow. The funny thing is though that there seems to be a sense that these people think that by over-spending (well over $100,000) that they will be able to control everything which makes no sense and seems obviously self-defeating to me because how on earth can a profit then be achieved? I'm not asking for any advice with this last statement Russ, as you've been more than helpful. Just venting some frustration.

As always, thanks.

 

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[kwerner]

James-

Your comments and attitudes are from a single person's perspective (who has no kids), so you don't see that what you're saying is just flat out wrong for a person who has made a commitment to marriage/kids.

I'm married, I have kids.

Do I, the married guy with kids, think it's a fair settlement for Elin to receive $750M - hell NO!

As far as the argument of Elin putting her life and career on hold so she could be a stay at home mom, that's a fair argument ...until you consider what she likely would have earned during that time if she had continued her career.

Would she have earned $750 million in that time? Not even close. Maybe $25 million, I don't know what she got paid as a model. But take her highest annual salary x 5 years and it wouldn't be anywhere close to 9 figures, let alone $750M.

I agree with those of you that have said you are entering a contract when you get married - first and foremost, you're entering a contract with GOD, then your spouse. And that's something that should be taken very seriously.

Obviously Tiger didn't live up to his contract, but it's my opinion that $750M is a *grossly* inflated penalty for him to have to pay for breaking the contract.

As Forrest Gump would say "...And that's all I have to say about that."

 

[Russ H]

I'm married, I have kids.

Do I, the married guy with kids, think it's a fair settlement for Elin to receive $750M - hell NO!

I agree with those of you that have said you are entering a contract when you get married - first and foremost, you're entering a contract with GOD, then your spouse. And that's something that should be taken very seriously.

Obviously Tiger didn't live up to his contract, but it's my opinion that $750M is a *grossly* inflated penalty for him to have to pay for breaking the contract.

It's just money, Kasey. Only difference between 75 bucks and 750 million is a few zeros.

I think it's more about a commitment -- to your partner, and to your kids.

Break that and no amount of money is ever going to make it right.

But that's just how I feel about it.

Sorry we didn't get more of a chance to talk at B&P.

-Russ H.

 

[moop]

Is 750m even an accurate figure? I've been hearing its some inflated number media sources have been distributing.

Regardless, Tiger cheated and during the marriage he made a significant amount of money while his wife supported him and cared for their children. She is entitled to something and considering Tiger's net worth, that 'something' will inevitably lie in the range of 8-9 figures.

 

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[Russ H]

$100M is the number I'm hearing from a lot of places.

Compare this to the $10M he supposedly paid to Rachel Uchitel.

Elin is the mother of his children, and his wife.

And Rachel?

Is not.

-Russ H.