Moral Dilemma

[ryanbleau]

So a family member owns a company in town and has not seen it to its full potential and there is a hole in the market. he's owned the business for 10+ years and pretty much runs it passively. I have the opportunity to start a competing firm. I have the charisma he once had and I have the muscle he now lacks. The realtor groups in town would like to see me embrace this new business and I would see an easy 6 figures by year end. My moral dilemma is do I potentially destroy my relationship by creating a competing company? How would you approach the situation? And buying into his company as a partner is a no go. already tried. My start up cost would be less than 10k . Has anyone dealt with something similar?

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[theag]

Well, how close are you to that family member?

 

[ryanbleau]

pretty close . but wont listen to reason from anyone. Even his wife.

 

[marklov]

It's a cold world out there ...everyone's gotta eat.

I know you have made up your mind already, apart of being in this world of business
is learning to manage and deal with negative emotions if you cant then you'll end up beating up yourself everyday.

I designed a competitive campaign that put an couple out of business they spent 3 decades building last year....am I happy about it?

Not really but i was hired to do a job and i did it.

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[happybhoy]

What's the business?
He could either see it as you stealing food from his table or your family tying up the market. Who knows?

 

[Ross Morgan]

Very unique and tough situation
You could always try the WADM.
Is the relationship more important than the opportunity? I'm sure it is so I'd try figuring out what other options you have. If there is no other option, I agree with Marklov, man's gotta eat.

 

[Filipe]

I'd say pick a different business. There's thousands of business opportunities just waiting, no need to potentially destroy the relationship with your family members. It's not only your standing with the specific family member that's at stake, it's your whole reputation and honor. People will take you as "that guy who went behind his family member's back!". It will probably come back to bite you in the long run if the word gets out, noone will trust you the same way. Dishonorable actions rarely pay! Money is abundant, family isn't.

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[marklov]

no need to potentially destroy the relationship with your family members. It's not only your standing with the specific family member that's at stake, it's your whole reputation and honor. People will take you as "that guy who went behind his family member's back!".

Who cares what others think....

Listen to this

A relationship/s destroyed so easily isn't worth keeping in my opinion.

Would you rather be sitting at a family get together with everyone parroting how successful you are and humble but you know the truth....under that thinly veiled smile they are seething with envy and spite, isn't it better to know that upfront and avoid it?

99% of my family walked away when I dropped out of college and got caught up in a string of failures/actionfakes to pursue the fastlane.

But the ones who still came by, who cooked for me and gave me good talks of support are the ones I talk to regularly now that everything's going good and that number is exactly 3 and I have dozens of family members as mine is quite large.

I am beyond the point of living for others comfort it is too much turmoil and sacrifices that I don't benefit from.....

I don't know Op's temperament/situation but I am quite content and never been happier.

 

[Get Right]

How about asking him what you should do? I got my prior employers blessing before I went into competition with him. It worked well and we refered work to each other quite often.

 

[_Seba_]

Don't forget about the three F's..

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[Filipe]

Marklov, nice podcast, also heard it today and loved it!

A relationship/s destroyed so easily isn't worth keeping in my opinion.

99% of my family walked away when I dropped out of college and got caught up in a string of failures/actionfakes to pursue the fastlane.

I fully agree that 99% of the time family will disagree with people who aren't sheep, it's a fact, yes.
You took strong action that pays off in the long run, and I also fully support and admire your commitment for dropping out of college. However, it's not the same situation with OP; even though he would be starting a profitable business, he would also be directly and consequently taking a family member of his completely out of a business he owned for 10 years (no matter how badly he ran it). It's a direct effect. Why take unnecessary direct hostile action? There's really many more market opportunities to grab. It isn't the last coin in the bucket...

But the ones who still came by, who cooked for me and gave me good talks of support are the ones I talk to regularly now that everything's going good and that number is exactly 3 and I have dozens of family members as mine is quite large.
I am beyond the point of living for others comfort it is too much turmoil and sacrifices that I don't benefit from.....
I don't know Op's temperament/situation but I am quite content and never been happier.

I again believe it's not the same thing. OP's action would be hostile and would directly attack the family member's source of income and take it out soon. It's not about living for someone else, it's about being loyal and honorable, it's about the OP's value as a person. It's about OP's peace of mind. If customers in the area found out, business would take a hit either way, and if he reached millionaire status, it would be a riot. Plus if he puts the family member in a really bad situation he has to live with the guilt forever... For what, a couple hundred thousand? There's always another business opportunity.
However, when people are hostile to you because of your choices and your choices don't influence them, as in your case (the dropout commitment), in that case, 100% let them hate and let them keep being sheep! Fully agree. But why take direct hostile action to family for maybe a few hundred thousand when there's other businesses out there that can generate 10x that?

 

[marklov]

I fully agree that 99% of the time family will disagree with people who aren't sheep, it's a fact, yes.
You took strong action that pays off in the long run, and I also fully support and admire your commitment for dropping out of college. However, it's not the same situation with OP; even though he would be starting a profitable business, he would also be directly and consequently taking a family member of his completely out of a business he owned for 10 years (no matter how badly he ran it). It's a direct effect. Why take unnecessary direct hostile action? There's really many more market opportunities to grab. It isn't the last coin in the bucket...

Which peace of mind would you rather.

If someone came and out competed his family member and taking money
he know he left on the table..... he can say at least I didn't do it...

But is that really a better peace of mind?

There are more opportunities out there of course and I am not a monster I too have my own
moral compass but as I said the Op I know for sure has already made up his mind, he knows what he wants to do.

He knows that the opportunity is right here for the taking

He knows that it would be easy to matriculate himself into that position .

He knows this could be a potential springboard into something bigger.

But he is here for someone to say YES go ahead and do it don't worry about anything else....

Which he wont get because at the end of the day it is his choice.

I again believe it's not the same thing. OP's action would be hostile and would directly attack the family member's source of income and take it out soon. It's not about living for someone else, it's about being loyal and honorable, it's about the OP's value as a person. It's about OP's peace of mind. If customers in the area found out, business would take a hit either way, and if he reached millionaire status, it would be a riot. Plus if he puts the family member in a really bad situation he has to live with the guilt forever... For what, a couple hundred thousand? There's always another business opportunity.
However, when people are hostile to you because of your choices and your choices don't influence them, as in your case (the dropout commitment), in that case, 100% let them hate and let them keep being sheep! Fully agree. But why take direct hostile action to family for maybe a few hundred thousand when there's other businesses out there that can generate 10x that?

about loyalty...

Does the OP know for sure if the tables turned his family member wouldn't do the same?

Would his family member leave him and his wasted opportunity alone?

Then who would be hostile against who?

If he put his family member in a bad postion, offer the family member a job
but that sounds great in theory but we all know how it would probably go down.

I understand where you are coming from as I wouldn't put relationship in jeopardy with my closest family members over money because I know the value of the relationship goes both ways .

But can the Op say the same, "close " can mean anything these days.

 

[Filipe]

Which peace of mind would you rather.

If someone came and out competed his family member and taking money
he know he left on the table..... he can say at least I didn't do it...

But is that really a better peace of mind?

You have a very insightful point here. It would be better to be the OP taking the money, agree fully.

about loyalty...
Does the OP know for sure if the tables turned his family member wouldn't do the same?

Well, only the OP can really know that. However, I still think assuming other people are disloyal and taking them out of business just because they haven't shown their loyalty (or disloyalty) yet isn't a good way to do business.Why simply assume the other family member is disloyal? But then again, you're more experienced than me, so maybe it's just my newbie-entrepreneur naivety talking. I haven't had time enough to have been betrayed by a business partner, so maybe my view wouldn't be the same if I had.

There are more opportunities out there of course and I am not a monster I too have my own
moral compass but as I said the Op I know for sure has already made up his mind, he knows what he wants to do.

I'm sorry if I accidently made my post sound like I was implying that, it was not my intention! We're all just here trying to help the OP!

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[jazb]

Don't see the point. theres an abundance of money and ideas out there.

 

[ejames]

Hmm tough one BUT if he won't allow you to buy in then I would create a company that competes, beat him then offer him a partnership then maybe he might wisen up?

 

[Perry Rico]

why don't you do it in a different state? so no competition

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[StompingAcorns]

I agree that no relationship, especially family, is worth the trade-off. However, have you looked at all creative possibilities?

Who else is employed by his business? Who else would it affect? I like the idea of an honest, open conversation with him about it; in fact, get the whole family together and discuss it as a brainstorming approach (unless the family could not approach it as supportive, or he would find it embarrassing). Instead of partners, get creative. Could you hire him as a coach (even if you don't need it)? Can you demonstrate to him specifically (facts on paper) where he's losing his market? Could you/would you be willing to pay him a percentage of whatever you built, as a thanks for getting you into this space? Have you pointed out that an outsider to the family could do what you say you can do, take it away from both of you, and then the entire family will lose? Would he rather you take on this business or a competitor step in and do it? Obviously many people know about this gap, or the RE contacts would not be urging you to do this. There is a real risk there that could affect more than just him, depending on who else works in this or who he supports financially (e.g., his wife).

Also, I have previous background as a mediator, even training attorneys and judges how to be mediators. One huge thing I learned is this: look for underlying motives. If he doesn't want to make you a partner, why not? What does he really want? How can you help him get it? For example: would he feel useless if he doesn't have this job/business? How can you make him feel useful? Would he feel embarrassed that someone younger than him is doing what took him umpteen years to do? How can you make him feel important and value his years of experience? Does he resent you for asking to be a partner in a business that he built by himself? What could you offer him that he would value? Would you be willing to "apprentice" under his business, helping him grow his own business rather than starting your own, provided he would allow you to change a few things to address the "hole"? (You might become partners later.) Does he respect you as a person? Does he believe you'll follow through and treat him fairly? What does he really enjoy doing that you don't, and vice versa? Is there a way for both of you to be in business and compliment each other? Can you fill the hole but refer business in his area of expertise to him, even though you could have accepted that business yourself? (You would still need his "blessing" if you don't want to strain family relationships.)

Underlying motives are sometimes intentionally hidden (aka hidden agendas). But more often, they are subconscious. People don't understand their own desires and need some help drawing out what they're thinking/feeling and what they would really like to have if given the option. If you can get him to the point where he realizes the risk from outside the family, and offer some other approaches than partnership, then it may open up conversation. Another very important thing to pay attention to is saving face. I don't know the level of pride of ownership he has, but you have to give him options that help him save face and make him look good to his family. Otherwise, he will resist you until the cows come home. His wife may give you insight into both motives and saving face if you get her alone and ask her the right questions.

What is your underlying motive? Why do you want to do this so much instead of something else?

All food for thought. Good luck!

 

[Ross Morgan]

Use an honest WADM!

 

[ryanbleau]

Had a lot to think about. thanks for the insight I may have failed to see. We shall see where it goes from here

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[ryanbleau]

it looks like I'll be starting a competing business. I ran his company for a week. no web presence. no google search hits. no yellow page listing. he seems to just not care. I'm dealing with some negative feedback just by being associated with him. My commercial insurance agent is huge in the realty sector here and encouraging me to start the business. might just have to buy out my uncle in the end.

 

[MJ DeMarco]

it looks like I'll be starting a competing business. I ran his company for a week. no web presence. no google search hits. no yellow page listing. he seems to just not care. I'm dealing with some negative feedback just by being associated with him. My commercial insurance agent is huge in the realty sector here and encouraging me to start the business. might just have to buy out my uncle in the end.

Have you sat him down and told him? Or are you going to blindside him and have him discover it on his own?

 

[JasonR]

The realtor groups in town would like to see me embrace this new business and I would see an easy 6 figures by year end. My moral dilemma is do I potentially destroy my relationship by creating a competing company? How would you approach the situation? And buying into his company as a partner is a no go. already tried. My start up cost would be less than 10k

First, earning even six figures is never easy. Don't be naive.

Second, be up front with him and handle the situation like man. Talk to him face to face.

Third, your start up costs are always more than you think.

To me it sounds like you aren't prepared to run this business and you're in for a wake up call. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing, but almost every human being thinks doing something will be much easier than it actually is.

My $.02 - do the right thing and have no Skeletons in your closet if you intend to compete with him. It'll work about better in the end.

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[ryanbleau]

First, earning even six figures is never easy. Don't be naive.

Second, be up front with him and handle the situation like man. Talk to him face to face.

Third, your start up costs are always more than you think.

To me it sounds like you aren't prepared to run this business and you're in for a wake up call. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing, but almost every human being thinks doing something will be much easier than it actually is.

My $.02 - do the right thing and have no Skeletons in your closet if you intend to compete with him. It'll work about better in the end.

I understand where your coming from to a degree but as I don't know you and you don't know me the benefit of the doubt works both ways. Just found out today he's pulling out of the area to try to relocate somewhere with 4 seasons instead of deal with the summers here. we had a conversation. he used to make 250k a year when he was in his prime. he hasn't youth or health on his side anymore. He feels he needs to micromanage and be onsite at every job. hires labor that has drug problems/mental health issues because they are cheap. Only runs one truck a day when he owns more than one . Seeing as the price of entry is rather low- less than 10k to start. Yes its a rather easy business to start. I already have another company that will pay for this venture that I own. It has nothing to do with the money per se but exposure. My main money line is my home improvement company. If I ad another layer of home service to it increases my exposure and additional income. 3-5k extra a week is entirely possible in the course of a year with very little babysitting involved. It's a very well thought out idea with great potential. And by me being in a position to buy out him it gives him a retirement nest egg which he does not have.

 

[conquer]

I say go for it especially if he's relocating. Even if he stays, I'd still do it. You can buy him out or maybe hire him into a management/consultant position etc.

If you're experienced in the business you might as well put that experience to use.

 

[StompingAcorns]

Just found out today he's pulling out of the area to try to relocate somewhere with 4 seasons instead of deal with the summers here. we had a conversation. he used to make 250k a year when he was in his prime. he hasn't youth or health on his side anymore. He feels he needs to micromanage and be onsite at every job.

Grats - it sounds like you may have found the underlying motive (two in this case). Now you can work out a win-win solution. Congratulations on having a candid discussion with him and uncovering this very important information.

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[daivey]

so basically OP thinks that if he does some SEO he's going to profit big time.

lol.

k good luck.

i dont even see what the moral dilemma is.. if you're so smart and can turn something from $0 to 6 figures in 8 months then how can you not handle something as simple as talk to your family???

it's really simple

"hey uncle, after running your business for a week while you were away, it dawned on me we can make A LOT OF MONEY doing X Y Z, now lets partner up and do it together, or I am going to do it myself"

seems more like a circle jerk dilemma than a real one.

OP if you're making 6 figures by the end of the year, show us the proof.

you started this circle jerk thread in jan, it's now May.