Money is Not Everything

[Zen Focus]

This is going to come off as annoyingly cynical, but take it how you will. I really don't see how this concept relates to the actual act of making money, as long as cash is going into my bank account. The reason you should provide value to your customers, as far as I can tell, is because that's the only way they'll buy. They're not stupid, and they can't be tricked for too long if you aren't giving them something they need. It has nothing to do with loving them. I give free things to people I love.

If you want proof that you don't need to be a highly personable, loving, affectionate person to make money, look at your heroes. Mark Cuban told James Altucher on his podcast "My first passion was making money. I focused on finding ways to do that, and threw myself into it." Was 20-something-year-old Bill Gates a compassionate, caring person? Hardly. Steve Jobs? Kevin O'leary? These people provided value, but not out of the kindness of their hearts.

Everything has a method. Those who master the method will be at the top. It just so happens that the more selfless, caring method seems to work out these days more often than not. Maybe one day that will change, and the selfish, cynical bastards of the world will be telling us all to use up our customers for every penny like the worthless scum they are, etc. My guess is the best way to reach the level of someone like @IceCreamKid is to emulate his method, and leave the spiritual stuff to the spiritual guys.

You have a point Prototype. However, your point is related to making money.

The point of this thread is about making money in a way that enables happiness, and which increases the chances of success in one's venture positively as a result of doing things that way.

Unfortunately, 99% of the people in the world think the way you do, and their businesses usually aren't impressive. Chances are they would have this constant void in their lives that can't be filled as well.

Speaking about Bill Gates - guess what is he doing right now. Steve Jobs - you bet he's always thought about creating a large enough impact, and is a stickler for his ideals. Mark Cuban - I bet he's getting more of a thrill in helping those entrepreneurs and himself in Shark Tank prosper and seeing what's going to happen from their ventures instead of the money itself being the key. There are many billionaires whose goals are in the game of making money - but do you know them personally? Do you know whether these guys are genuinely happy? Most usually, their goal was to make themselves happy by proving themselves.

But alas, is anyone who is selfish and whose focus revolves only around themselves ever deeply happy?

The factor contributing to their venture's failures is too high in these circumstances as well, unless they'd do whatever just to accomplish what they want. If they hinge towards being able to do whatever in a selfish way, you can bet these guys are never really fulfilled as well. There are too many negative feelings involved for them to feel really good.

My partner chose to not inherit his family's high multi-million dollar listed company company because it involves living life solely for money - and it's largely bribery related. He couldn't stand the idea that it's not his own achievement, and that life lived that way would mean constant manipulation instead of doing what can make him feel alive and happy.

I'm sharing a viewpoint. You can choose to disregard it.

The point is that, out there in the world, there are countless who have made it, and would nod their heads to this.

Life is short. If you think it's ok to sacrifice a large part of it solely to achieve the money, by all means do it. If not, do think about running your business in a way that makes you happy. Maturity is understanding how things are and doing things accordingly.

 

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[SteveO]

I wonder if SteveO has thoughts on this spiritual side to business...

Absolutely. I am not an expert though, just a person with an opinion.

It is against forum rules to discuss religion so I will keep my thoughts to a minimum.

The amount of perceived conflict in our lives is telling us a lot of information. We create our lives by the choices we make. If we are caring and non-judgmental, that is what we will draw to our lives.

I agree with what you are saying. I try to keep a stronger focus on myself and less on the other person. Emotions will give us instant feedback on our actions and choices. So, if I listen to what is going on inside of me, I will know if I am dealing with fear, anxiety, etc. coming from myself.

 

[Vigilante]

Really? Serious question - Doesnt the fact that u put in hard work (process) to get that money provide you with more satisfaction then the money itself?

Let me rephrase your position to ensure I understand it.

Some days I am at my office in Minneapolis, Minnesota. While I am there, I am managing accounting, dealing with strategy and customer problem mitigation issues and participating in the grind of company building.

Other days, I am in the middle of the Pacific ocean, on a private charter boat, drinking champagne while my wife and children spot humpback whales.

Is your question to me on which of those days am I happier?

 

[SteveO]

I rather be sad in a Lambo than happy in a honda. That's the truth.

That is the beautiful thing about life. We can all make our own choices.

 

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[SteveO]

I really don't see how this concept relates to the actual act of making money, as long as cash is going into my bank account.

That is how he framed it because that is how he perceives it. This is what he experienced and he passed it along. If you look back at ICK's posts you will see a recurring theme about caring for others.

 

[Silverhawk851]

"Talks about happiness and existentialism occur only in a state of boredom."

And your confusing money=freedom with money=material items.

How bout this, you can't be happy if you don't do shit with your life. Your life is time, you have 80 years, 30,000 days.
To do shit with life you have to have money.

And btw, you only get money if you help others, money is a by-product of your value.
Meaning, if you have no money, you are not providing anything to society, meaning your useless to them, meaning they give you no money, meaning you feel inadequate, meaning your not happy.

So Yes, money is result of creating value, and being valuable means you are fulfilling your potential, meaning you will be happy.

Now, go create some value, and be happy because you fulfilled your potential, and made a difference in the world.
Back to work.

 

[zr1]

making money is both a narcissistic and altruistic pursuit. if you don't value you first the world won't value you. that's why most lottery winners lose all their winnings and go back to zero unless they feel they actually deserved the money. self worth must precede net worth to not only just make the money but keep it. there is no happiness without sadness in anything in life. seeing life as a one sided illusion will eventually pop your bubble. Be willing to embrace both happiness and sadness (pleasure and pain) in your pursuit and you will gain something more valuable than money or happiness...wisdom.

 

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[MJ DeMarco]

Another conversation about this

https://www.thefastlaneforum.com/community/threads/money-makes-you-happier.46100/

 

[Vigilante]

I think the denial of a correlation between financial security and happiness is somewhat delusional. I also think the attempt to cap the correlation at a fixed dollar amount (i.e. after $75k, there's no more satisfaction to be gained by increased wealth) is ludicrous. I have learned to be content in all circumstances, but happiness is an emotion. Happiness is a mental or emotional state of well-being characterized by positive or pleasant emotions ranging from contentment to intense joy. It's a spectrum. It's a range.

When I had bill collectors calling me, my happiness was less. When I had zero money, zero income, and fading hope, happiness was less.

It's OK to admit that money swings the spectrum of happiness from less to more. It's not politically correct, and it takes away the security blanket from those who try and deny the correlation, but it's true in most cases. Most people I have ever met who try and make the opposite case never had money. And, 100% of them, if given the opportunity, would take the money.

Malcolm Gladwell's latest book (David and Goliath) tried to make and then expound on that claim that more income causes diminishing returns of happiness. I threw the book out.

 

[MisterBHZ]

Money is everything I need/want it to be.

 

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[MJ DeMarco]

Malcolm Gladwell's latest book (David and Goliath) tried to make and then expound on that claim that more income causes diminishing returns of happiness. I threw the book out.

How far into this book did this occur? Was it the old "Once you make $70K/year you won't be any happier" argument?

 

[Zen Focus]

It's interesting that this thread has taken a course of its own. I intended for it to potentially inspire those who were going to suffer from aiming to make money thinking it's going to be the destination. For the start-up, so that if their focus was on making money from dropshipping, for example, to actually create something valuable for others which they would love doing. Create a product with great sensitivity - only honestly settling for what truly satisfies the maker him/herself, and perhaps then get it funded on Kickstarter and make it happen. By then, their product would actually be something exciting, and is fundworthy. Offer a service, be the absolute #1 person for their customers to call when it comes to the service. For those who resonates with this post and who already have a business, so they could change from mediocre to exceptional. Change their focus from achieving numbers, to providing a truly valuable experience. Transform the working environment from dull to one filled with life for its employees.

It seems mind-boggling to me that each day, I'd visit various different restaurants and do business with many vendors, and I get the feeling of wanting to complain about them. These restaurants who offer mediocre food because their focus was on making money, raise prices when their food is only ok, not excellent, and as a result are often empty. And then there are those restaurants which simply offers amazing food, and despite being expensive, I find myself frequenting them again and again. For the vendors, if they were not amazing, whenever the chance came up I would go for their better competitors. Time and again, I realized that those who put their heart into doing what they do, they prosper and people just want to give money to them. Sometimes you just wonder, "Why didn't the normal ones understand?"

By saying money is not everything, I meant it in this sense.

Given the choice, I would have definitely said that money is important. However, it shouldn't be everything that matters - because if people were to shift their focus towards making others happy, not only will they be satisfied on the inner side, they'll also be rewarded with abundance of money.

 

[smarty]

When a rich guy says "money doesn't make you happy", I can believe that.
When Pope says "money doesn't make you happy" I go "screw you Pope. I would rather get rich than have a mentor like you".

 

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[MJ DeMarco]

because if people were to shift their focus towards making others happy, not only will they be satisfied on the inner side, they'll also be rewarded with abundance of money.

Yup, and this is why most people never succeed with money, business, or with relationships. Me, Me, Me. Selfishness. Spurious marketing. Unethical practices. Do whatever it takes to make that cash!! This mentality is something we fight here every day.

"Get Rich or Die Trying" seems to be a cool phrase with a lot of young guys. Well guess what? They will indeed, die trying.

 

[Guest]

This guy reminded me of the simple tweak that skyrocketed my biz into the 6-figure range. A girl found me on Craigslist and really liked my stuff so she started referring me to other commercial accounts and things went viral for me within the startup community. I ended up being the "go to" company for startups throughout the Bay Area.

This tweak can be broken down into an exact science.

If you look at an atom under a high powered microscope, you'll see that it is vibrating A LOT. Since we are made up of trillions of atoms, our body actually gives off a certain vibration that other people's subconscious can pick up on. Our conscious mind doesn't even realize it's happening.

I basically aligned my mindset with a position of pure love for others. No lie. This changed it all. My vibration changed over time and people began to view me as the guy who was willing to take a loss if it meant the customer would end up happy. Sales increased and more referrals came...all from this vibration of love in its purest form. It wasn't about being a cold cash taker. It was about heart.

99% of people have a vibration of fear, jealousy, anger, bitterness, envy, and disappointment. All of these vibrations, even fear, can reversed by mastering the idea of genuinely loving others. You can easily determine your vibration by observing your reactions towards others. How do you feel when you see someone becoming successful? How do you feel when you see someone fail?

I once hated picking up the phone to talk to strangers. It didn't feel natural to me. Over time, I started to realize that it didn't feel natural because there was a hint of greed in my heart that wanted to extract money from them. I wasn't in alignment with my heart and whenever that's the case, it's like fighting an endless battle because I was doing something that wasn't at peace with my core. At this point in my life, there is zero attachment to money. Just provide a quality product that gives REAL value and TRUST that the universe will take care of everything else.

When I chose to be in alignment with my heart and the concept of pure love for others, the idea of calling people was no longer a fear that had to be conquered. Instead of battling the fear and overcoming it, it was completely bypassed. The process of calling people became a PLEASURE because it felt the same as calling Aunt Sally to ask if I could help her mow the lawn. The process of calling people felt RESISTANCE FREE and it was all due to being rooted in love. Everyone in the world is viewed as my brother and sister. As cheesy as it sounds, love will free you.

Zen Focus Thank you for posting this thread, you are one seriously enlightened and conscious person.
I wonder if SteveO has thoughts on this spiritual side to business...

I also wonder if MJ DeMarco will be touching on the concept of alignment in his 2nd book.

Alignment is the secret sauce. I'm willing to bet money that MJ would've shut down this forum a long time ago if it wasn't rooted in his values and mission. It takes an incredible amount of time and energy to manage this place.

What you said here will only fan the flame with the Law of Attraction folks, and I don't think MJ will be talking about this in his 2nd book because he specifically said the people who speak of this concept are only targeting the naive masses who are looking for events by simply wishing or imagining it.

The Law of Attraction is only one of the 12 Universal laws. The movie just glorified this law so it can be marketed well. You have to understand the other 11 laws and live by it to fully grasp the beauty of life. The laws of man are flawed, but show me an example of any famous or infamous, a successful or unsuccessful person and I will show you exactly what universal laws are followed or not.

What you mention about the atom and how it's related to our consciousness is on the brink of scientific discovery. It was believed that the atom was the smaller thing in the universe and can not be divided any further. 100 years ago we discovered subatomic particles made up of protons, neutrons, electrons, and even those can be broken down further into quarks, gluons, electrons, neutrinos and recently Higgs Boson.

What is interesting is that at these levels things get down right weird to the point of being freaky. Particles vanish and reappear out of thin air, particles can be teleported, they can be bonded so that when one particle is messed with the other located in a separate building across the city is also affected, particles behave differently when being observed by the human eye or consciousness. All this has been scientifically proven. In fact the great Albert Einstein is so boggled and dumbfounded he turned religious saying that the world as we know could've been chaotic but it isn't so it must have been designed (he didn't say God).

While we all agree that having money is good, it is the process of obtaining it that should be enjoyed, the good and the ugly. If you are making a ton of money but you make a grimace at the thought of entering the office then all the power to you, go and make that dough.

But until you truly understand and love your product or services, the people you serve, and the people who work for you then the money will come.

 

[Vigilante]

How far into this book did this occur? Was it the old "Once you make $70K/year you won't be any happier" argument?

It was that EXACT often misunderstood/misquoted/misrepresented statistic, presented as a universal fact. He left it for 3-4 chapters in, after he hooked you with some unrelated and pretty compelling analogies to the biblical story of David and Goliath as it pertains to small businesses matching up against industry titans. So, I humored him through his faulty premise chapter of the $70k income myth. (I think he actually used $75k.) Wanting to breeze past it, I then went into the next chapter, which BUILT ON the previous chapter.

I literally got up, walked over to the garbage can, and deposited his book where it belongs.

 

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[Zen Focus]

I actually aspire to be a billionaire.

So I think the 70k income gauge is too low.

Why a billionaire? - Because at this level, the kind of things that I'll be able to do to challenge the imperfections in the world would be amazing.

Money is in my opinion, this really, really useful sword.

Used right, it can change the course of history. Used wrongly, it can cause a lot of disappointments.

Unfortunately, too many wish for this sword because it'd make them look cool. They think owning it would change everything about them. Too many wish to own the sword but knew nothing else other than to feed their eyes on the sword and keep it precious. In some instances, they used the sword for selfish reasons, like boosting their ego from swinging it at someone who's helpless.

Because of these reasons, they either won't be capable enough to own it, they'd find little fulfillment from it, or they'd find themselves fearing life.

They didn't realize that if they built their grounds on living life right, and delivered happiness to others by their being, they would have a chance at deserving the sword and actually harnessing even greater happiness from it for themselves, and for others. To create something that's truly meaningful.

In accordance to my values, I'd find little satisfaction in life if what I've done and how I lived didn't positively impact the world in a large way. Money is a tool, making the world happier, that's what gives me happiness.

 

[Wuz]

"Giving is better than receiving because giving starts the receiving process."


And the "receiving" part is not just about the money.

 

[Writer]

Dunno the Universal Truth of happiness.
Money might not bring you happiness, but I'd rather have the money to chose my own miserability than not.

 

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[Vigilante]

"Giving is better than receiving because giving starts the receiving process."


And the "receiving" part is not just about the money.

I actually think receiving can be a catalyst to the giving process.

Our company made a sizable donation today, but it took money to do it.

And... the monetary gift we gave ... made people happy. Happier. The money itself, providing the donation, made them happier than they were before we gave the gift.

 

[PopEmersen]

Every time i see an email from Amazon or Ebay saying my product has sold....I get happier
Every time I attend a closing for a home I've sold.....i get happier
Every time I got a check for a beat I made............i got happier

 

[Zen Focus]

I appreciate that you're capable to provide a donation to others Vigilante.

I believe what Wuz meant was that proactively, the act of giving does allow one to eventually receive.

The average person proactively tries to receive, but did nothing valuable to deserve it.

 

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[Determined2012]

I am just loving Vigilante's conviction.

I was somewhere, and someone started to speak about how most don't have conviction regarding anything in their lives, for whatever reason... and I related to that within myself regarding different topics, and I said I was going to change that.

The takeaway for me is the reiteration of having conviction in life.

Thank you for this forum. I have learned that entrepreneurship for me is not nearly as much about MONEY as it is for me to be the all around BEST version of myself that I can be in all aspects of my life.

One quote from Oprah comes to mind: A pursuit to fulfill the HIGHEST, TRUEST expression of myself as a human being.

I haven't made much money being an entrepreneur yet since I started down this path, but I have grown in leaps and bounds as a woman, mother, daughter, girlfriend, and person. I am very thankful for that. I know that developing myself into this person is going to be a stepping stone to achieving the financial part of entrepreneurship.

 

[Writer]

Every time i see an email from Amazon or Ebay saying my product has sold....I get happier
Every time I attend a closing for a home I've sold.....i get happier
Every time I got a check for a beat I made............i got happier

Agreed. I would love to see an employee telling his boss that he doesn't want the bi-weekly direct deposit because money don't bring happiness. "Sir, please. Just give me ramen noodles!"

 

[Wuz]

I actually think receiving can be a catalyst to the giving process.

Our company made a sizable donation today, but it took money to do it.

And... the monetary gift we gave ... made people happy. Happier. The money itself, providing the donation, made them happier than they were before we gave the gift.

it works in both ways.

You have to give to receive and receive to give.

 

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[RogueInnovation]

This is one of the reasons why I've written this post.

Thanks,
But I feel that peoples emotions are tricky (especially mine)

I love my company. I love how I can sit all day thinking and get things done. But I do not love
- greedy insecure people
- terrible business practices
- unthoughtfulness
- discrimination

That is RAMPANT...

Normally, I'd just ignore it, I'd say "well don't focus on it! Focus on YOUR results and be happy, cuz you can't change the worlds bs".
I can't do that.
I know it might just be lingering bullshit in me, but I believe that if you feel it is wrong you never just sweep it aside.

Not sweeping aside what is a rampant problem, truly sucks.
But there are positives, cuz
a) I refuse to break
b) I'm good at softening things
c) I understand the larger picture we are looking for
d) And I develop more steel and maturity, compared to those flying by the seat of their pants

I just don't have the BLIND enthusiasm, because I think it removes a sense of humanity/humility and care for the disenfranchised. I'd prefer to have enough to make it easier, but you cannot UNSEE reality.

I do believe the reality IS cruel, and it needs remarkable self control to support another way.

My "positive outlook" is that we deal with this cruel side and develop the wisdom to do better, so long as we don't run around looting and squealing about "success".
I've been there before. I don't intend to make that mistake again.



But yes, you really DO want to help with that bleaker outlook, and I appreciate that (and think its kickass).
I just gotta stop being a puss puss and pull myself together

No matter how bad things are, there is always a POINT to get to.
You say its good and true.
I'm just a little slower.


In fact, I see Icecreamkid as the fastest way to being positive, I see you as realistic and medium, and I see myself as slooooooow and heavy.
So in my heart, I agree with both of you very much.

It helps that there are guys like you around more than you'd think.

Great post
The sentiment is needed and true as well as beautiful
Keep rockin it like you do, helps the little guys

 

[RogueInnovation]

I think the denial of a correlation between financial security and happiness is somewhat delusional. I also think the attempt to cap the correlation at a fixed dollar amount (i.e. after $75k, there's no more satisfaction to be gained by increased wealth) is ludicrous. I have learned to be content in all circumstances, but happiness is an emotion. Happiness is a mental or emotional state of well-being characterized by positive or pleasant emotions ranging from contentment to intense joy. It's a spectrum. It's a range.

When I had bill collectors calling me, my happiness was less. When I had zero money, zero income, and fading hope, happiness was less.

It's OK to admit that money swings the spectrum of happiness from less to more. It's not politically correct, and it takes away the security blanket from those who try and deny the correlation, but it's true in most cases. Most people I have ever met who try and make the opposite case never had money. And, 100% of them, if given the opportunity, would take the money.

Malcolm Gladwell's latest book (David and Goliath) tried to make and then expound on that claim that more income causes diminishing returns of happiness. I threw the book out.

I deeply agree with this, as even while my income is low and I am not a big money chaser advocate, I think the POINTS are indisputeable.

I do think DELUSION is ludicrous. And I believe that rewards need to become MATERIAL at some point or what the hell is the point?

However, I also believe in bringing OUT as much happiness as possible from what you have (even if its just process and your own thoughts).


At this point in my journey, I would not TAKE more money than I earn from people.
I aim to EARN more not HAVE more, and there is a HUGE difference between the two that zen focus is pointing out.

I think your main premise is that THOSE WHO WANT TO EARN MORE are better than those who delude themselves that its not worth earning more money cuz "it won't buy anything good".

I think you understand it as a question of avoidance and personal betterment, and that you believe in pushing.


I think it is indesputeable that zen focus pushes.
So I actually think your points are in sync with each other.

Apathy of any kind in business is just painting a target on your forehead.
And it applies regarding money and mindset equally imo

Fantastically put btw Vig

 

[Formless]

I think the point proven here is 'different strokes for different folks.'

And probably we're saying somewhat the same thing, but differently.

 

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[samuraijack]

Someone on a forum I visit once told a story about himself and how he was a MD (Managing Director) at an investment bank who grossed around $800,000 a year. He said after the economy went down the drain a lot of people got laid off and he feared for his job and he was overworked and wanted more time to spend with his family. So he quit and took a government job making 250,000 a year to enjoy the "stability". Now he says he is "happy" even though he feels unimportant at his job since he is in more of a support role than a money making role like before.

Say what you want but if he had a fastlane business, he could be making the same amount of money or more than his previous job, with MORE time for his family, and feel even MORE valuable as a business owner. MORE money, MORE freedom, MORE time. If that isn't happiness, then what is?

 

[Zen Focus]

Yes we're really saying the same things.

I just assumed the path of entrepreneurship means one definitely works at getting rich as well. It's a given, so I have come to subconsciously expect an abundance of it, and be grateful for it.

However, it isn't the only thing available in life to aim for.

And many people haven't experienced enough pain in life to have the maturity in seeing that.

There are more fun and exciting focuses in life, that if we given our attention to them and work full force at them, allows us to experience life at its fullest, even when acquiring larger wealth. Many people delay that, and carry a fantasy in their minds that money would change everything. This is a catalyst towards many actions that they would regret.

Of course, experiencing regrets and pains is a good thing too. It is required on this path towards maturity and success.

So in many ways we are saying the same thing, different point of views.

From this thread, we can see how many people's eyes are only settled on money alone. This is not to be blamed, as many didn't get the opportunity to experience wealth so lavish, it couldn't have finished. I've partly experienced that, and have been surrounded by people who have.

You can be a billionaire and still feel empty.

And still need other people's attention. And still feel insecure.

There are choices in life, and the whole point of spending our time in a forum is that we get to learn from each other's viewpoints. Ignore what is not good, take what is good. The point of a forum is for you, yourself to learn from and be stronger and wiser together with the others.