Misconception: Wealth = Luck

[Icy]

<rant>

This has been bugging me lately. People are constantly telling me that in order to get rich you must work hard (agreed) and also get lucky. I hate this idea of getting "lucky" because at the end of the day those "lucky" people are just persistent. Try thinking of a few people that you would say truly got lucky in their road to wealth (besides lotto winners ).

Even my own dad after he saw me reading all these business books and saw me on this website has begun to criticize me. The latest being today:

Him: "Want to know how you get rich?"
Me: *mumbles*"Sure" (Knew where this was going to lead.
Him: "Hard work but mostly luck"

This idea of luck just bothers me. People love to blame their failures on luck instead of taking any responsibility for themselves. This type of attitude sucks because it is an excuse not to get better and frankly I cannot stand that type of thinking.

How can you stop doing something on a failure? Certainly you could have prepared better - read more, ran fast in practice, be more persistent - so why stop and just attribute your lack of success to luck? Do you attribute most of your success to luck? I doubt it, and if you do, that's giving yourself a reason not to improve if your success is based on luck and nothing you do.

It's sad we cannot just accept someone worked harder for something, was more persistent, or just took the time to produce an idea instead of just having an idea.

Ha, guess this shows the type of people I am around and why I am moving halfway across the country at the end of summer. haha

</rant>

 

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[AroundTheWorld]

I couldn't agree more.

I could add to the rant.... (okay, I will).... another thing that drives me crazy is when people will calculate someone elses "income" by multiplying the rate x # of customers. Then say... "That owner is so lucky. He is raking in the money"

Of course, they forget about: expense, hard work, and headaches associated with all that "luck."
</rant>

But the real question is.... what do you do about it when you run into people like this?

How do you communicate with them?
How do you get them out of your life (if that is what you want)?
Or... do you even waste your time?

 

[Pinnacle]

Rep speed+, Icy

I am so glad that someone FINALLY addressed this issue. Even from some of the most respected financial pros, I still read about this ridiculous idea of "luck" at every turn. That is as absurd an idea to me as God having a hand in our financial lives. For the longest time I had been trying to "come to terms" with the idea that I would have to incorporate and account for luck in my journey. I had never heard it challenged even by the sophisticated people of this forum until now.

Thank you, Icy.

 

[marktech101]

I've been reading a book recently called Outliers: A Story of Success. In it, the author explains a few of the necessary elements of success. While it may be true that luck isn't one of them, there are certainly many factors of success that are uncontrollable by the one pursuing the success. Two of the most successful people on this board, PhxMJ and SteveO, are prime examples of this. MJ, you were fortunate enough to be among the first to push the idea for your website; you also got started before the .com crash. Additionally, I'm going to go out onto a limb and say that you might never have had the degree of success you currently enjoy if you had been born, say, 50 years ago, before the advent of the Internet. Now, I'm not discrediting your work in any way; without your hard work, you wouldn't have seen this end result. I'm just saying that in addition to working hard, there is some element of being in the right place at the right time.

SteveO, forgive me for saying you were in a similar situation. In addition to your long hours, you were helped by the fact that the real estate markets were exploding. However, your situation is different from MJ's in that real estate markets fluctuate often during the course of a lifetime. Maybe not so much as this latest boom, but the markets will go up again in a few years just as they did a few years ago. PhxMJ, the Internet is only invented once. As time passes, it becomes more and more difficult to create a website that is competitive with the current market, for the simple reason that the Web is always evolving.

Now, I realize that this may be seen as something of a discouraging post. The key element here is to realize that, even though specific opportunities, such as real estate, are viable as FastLanes only some of the time, there will always be other options open. So, while you need a certain degree of luck (defined as 'being in the right place at the right time) to be successful, you ultimitely don't need luck because there are always opportunities. Most of the FastLane is simply finding the opportunities that are open and pursuing them with the passion of an entrepreneur.

--marktech101

 

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[yveskleinsky]

I couldn't agree more.

I could add to the rant.... (okay, I will).... another thing that drives me crazy is when people will calculate someone elses "income" by multiplying the rate x # of customers. Then say... "That owner is so lucky. He is raking in the money"

Of course, they forget about: expense, hard work, and headaches associated with all that "luck."
</rant>

But the real question is.... what do you do about it when you run into people like this?

How do you communicate with them?
How do you get them out of your life (if that is what you want)?
Or... do you even waste your time?

Why waste your time trying to have a business conversation with someone who has no business sense (unless of course the really do want to learn)? Any valid point that you'll bring up in an attempt to get them to see a fuller picture, such as operating expenses, they are going to shoot down with the ol' "yeah but still" excuse. They don't want to hear it. Keep walkin' is what I vote for. ...Heck, keep walkin' 'till you make it to my house and I'll make you some gnocci.

 

[MJ DeMarco]

Ooooo great topic and great answers !!!! :smxG::eusa_clap: I wonder what Peerless's book would say?

 

[MonTexan]

I think that most "lucky" people create much of their own "luck." Have you ever started up a conversation with a stranger on an airplane who just-so-happened to be very successful in the exact field you are pursuing? Maybe this person then ended up being a mentor, investor, business partner etc....most people would tell you that you're "so lucky; always seem to meet the right person at the right time and fall a$$-backwards into a great deal." All it took was being outgoing and a simple introduction on an airplane to create this "lucky" moment.

Of course, most successful entrepreneurs work very hard getting their ideas and businesses up and running, taking calculated risks, and betting everything on their idea only to be called "lucky" when they achieve success. I think most people would call this person "lucky" out of jealousy and because it's an easy cop-out.

As Marktech said, I would also recommend the Outliers book by Gladwell...very interesting read as it describes many very successful people and how they rose to the pinnacle of various sports/industries. It was full of ah-ha moments for me.

 

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[Jonleehacker]

I think a lot of people confuse luck with "grace"

Yes, successful people create their own luck with hard work & determination, but grace plays a huge part in any success.

 

[PEERless]

I wonder what Peerless's book would say?

Gasp! Haven't you read it? Tsk!

Icy, I agree with much of what you are saying, and I appreciate a well-written rant.

A lot of people are confused by my own perspective and opinion on luck. Some people think that I sit at home reading tea leave and rolling dice. But I don't believe luck is magic or even supernatural.

JScott's perspective is similar to mine, i.e. the "sensitive dependence on initial conditions" described in Chaos Theory. Imagine taking two identical people of identical work ethic and placing one in Switzerland and one in North Korea. The idea that both could work hard for high status and wealth is a myth. Our luck is sensitively dependent on our initial conditions.

In addition, I'd like the point out that hard work is not necessarily a virtue. Hard workers will always be surpassed by smart workers.

Look, the fact is that the poor will embrace the idea of luck, because it removes responsibility for their predicament. The rich will reject the idea of luck, because is denies them credit for their station. Perhaps all of us should take a more balanced view.

 

[AroundTheWorld]

Jon.... your definition of grace, please

 

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[Russ H]

My favorite saying about "luck":

Luck favors the prepared.

Most people completely miss the big message of the above statement.

-Russ H.

Lots of thoughts online about this. Here's just one.

 

[PEERless]

Preparation is key, and the LLN is certainly helpful. What a fun topic!

 

[Jonleehacker]

Jon.... your definition of grace, please

Preparation and hard work get you to the doorstep of success, grace opens the door.

 

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[PEERless]

Preparation and hard work get you to the doorstep of success, grace opens the door.

Still not clear, Jon. Are you talking about Divine grace? The direct action of God in the universe?

 

[kidgas]

Luck is the intersection of opportunity and preparedness. I tell all my kids this.

You definitely need to read the book "Outliers" by Malcolm Gladwell. I strongly believe in the 10,000 hour rule. Read about the practice habits of greats like Walter Payton, Michael Jordan, Tiger Woods, VJ Singh. Luck has little to do with it.

We see all the end results and think successful and rich people must be lucky. We don't see the extra hours shooting free throws when everyone else is done with practice. The time spent reading this or that while others are out playing or goofing off. People with no clue just think all these things were dropped into some lucky schmuck's lap. Come on, get real. People end up great because they ended up working their butts off and didn't quit when things got tough.

 

[Jonleehacker]

Still not clear, Jon. Are you talking about Divine grace? The direct action of God in the universe?

Yes. To believe we are in control of success, wealth or any other aspect of our life is folly IMHO.

 

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[PEERless]

Yes. To believe we are in control of success, wealth or any other aspect of our life is folly IMHO.

Oh. fftopic:

 

[venom]

Hi
I belive in bad luck happens to me all the time :huh2:
Clearly two people can have the same idea and one becomes rich and the other goes broke. Exactly what factors do we attribute it to ?

 

[Runum]

I do believe we are in charge of what we see, perceive, and take advantage of. I saw the contrasts in Florida last week. I look around and see so much opportunity, more than I can take in. Others sit in the same place and see a lack of opportunity.

I also think there is something to be said for timing, but you still have to be prepared to take advantage of the opportunity when the time is right.

 

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[mtnman]

"sensitive dependence on initial conditions" described in Chaos Theory. Imagine taking two identical people of identical

Why is that not a link to your site or blog or something where you talk about this stuff? And you want to sell books? :smx4:lol

fftopic:

 

[Icy]

Hi
I belive in bad luck happens to me all the time :huh2:
Clearly two people can have the same idea and one becomes rich and the other goes broke. Exactly what factors do we attribute it to ?

Luck comes down completely on how you view events in your life. I'll start off with a few quick examples.

I cannot remember the philosophers name but he was an atheist until one event in his life. Something happened with his carriage while traveling and it almost feel into a river below the bridge (ha, cannot remember the exact details but the 'end' is all the same) but a strap or something caught on the bridge. In his mind that was a lucky incident, and infact in couldn't have just happened for no reason, in which case he became a Christian, attributing it to god. This seems great but if you think about it, because of all the circumstances that day it couldn't have possibly happened any other way. All his choices that day lead to exactly that, can you call that luck?

Another example is from my own personal experience with soccer and injuries. In my senior year of soccer (last year) I had a torn meniscus and I avoided surgery until the end of the season. It seemed like the ultimate bad luck, right? My last year, and an injury that allowed me to barely sprint\kick with that leg (my dominate leg). Well, after the season, and surgery it made me realize how fortunate I truly am and made my desire for soccer even stronger.

After surgery I was constantly practicing until tryouts for my college team (So I wouldn't get injuried in the season). Well, about a month before tryouts I was out riding a bike and managed to hit a pothole and broke my collarbone (what luck!). So that would be unlucky too right? While I didn't make the team, it's made me not take injury free periods for granted. Infact in the last couple monthes I've made the most improvements I've ever made in a period of time. So, "bad luck" if examined can almost always have positive outcomes.

Not exactly the most relavent story but I thought it could get a point across that every bad thing has a positive outcome. The only thing is whether or not your willing to examine it or if you'll be like "everyone else" and only look at the bad side.

The idea of two people having the same idea and one succeeding and one not has many variables. To list a few:

-Time put in
-Persistence
-Location
-Personality (never thought of it before but I can see it being a huge influence in some areas)
-Willingness to put into the project ("risk" everything)
-And more

The person that succeeds is the one that see's the true potential in a product\service and wants to work towards it. I'll cut off this here because what makes one person successful and one not could easily turn into a book, although if you want more just say something.

 

[andviv]

well, it seems I am joining this party kind of late...

I agree, the book Outliers provided great information to me, and made me realize a few things...

The 10,000 hours rule? yes, I believe on that one.

Venom's question is great... why two people with the same idea end up in different places? I attribute that to two factors: Environment and Networking.

The point I think is more important to me now is that opportunities are created through networking. As somebody already mentioned, if I go talking to a 1,000 people and get 3 to pay attention and invest in my idea or to put me in contact with some other person that can help me then some will say I was just lucky. I think that type of luck you can create.

If I want to create a huge online company then I should have a better success rate if I network with the Silicon Valley folks than if I just spend 200 hours a week in my basement coding and drinking mountain dew. There are success stories in both scenarios (think plentyoffish.com for example), but the numbers are stacked in favor of the silicon valley guys.

So, in conclusion about luck and success my point is, networking like crazy will help you overcome many obstacles and will open many doors, thus making you "lucky"

I guess the problem is not whether luck exists, I think this thread is related to the fact that "he's just lucky" is an excuse used by others to belittle your accomplishments. Let them be, you can't change them. I gave up trying to convince the cynics and now I focus on telling many people what I am trying to accomplish and hope somebody can lead me to the contact/break I need. Meanwhile I keep working harder (and, hopefully, smarter) and try to help others, that way others will help me when I need it (and this already has happened, thanks to my Mastermind group and many others in this forum, that have helped me one way or another).

In other aspects of life, luck definitely is present. How can it be that a healthy 40-something year old woman slips and falls in the beginners slope skiing and dies, while I had a terrible car accident, broke C4 and C5 and my hip, and "only" had surgery, 3 months in a wheelchair, a few months of therapy, and that's all? I should be dead and she should have had to take a tylenol and take a nap, but that is not how it went.

 

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[biophase]

I think that most people remember that last action to cause a result and if that last action was a 1 in a 1000 event people call it lucky. However, they do not dive deeper into the events that led up to the event.

Totally made up example:

Person wins a free vacation to Cancun in an office raffle - Lucky
Person breaks leg and cannot make the trip, coworker will go in place of him - Unlucky
Coworker gets fired a week before - Lucky
Person was pulled over for speeding on the way to the airport - Unlucky
Incompetent employee at check-in could not find her reservation - Unlucky
Person is late for flight and misses it by 5 minutes - Unlucky
Plane crashes and everyone dies - Lucky

My point is that "luck" is judged as a singular event in time. I believe that it's non-existent because the same event in a different context can be taken as "lucky" or "unlucky".

In the list of events above, each event can changed from lucky to unlucky and vice versa based upon the final event on the list. But there never is a final event is there? I guess the final event is death. Is someone who wins the lottery, starts a billion dollar business, lives happily until 86 and then dies in a freak accident lucky or unlucky?

 

[jportz]

I cannot remember the philosophers name but he was an atheist until one event in his life. Something happened with his carriage while traveling and it almost feel into a river below the bridge (ha, cannot remember the exact details but the 'end' is all the same) but a strap or something caught on the bridge. In his mind that was a lucky incident, and infact in couldn't have just happened for no reason, in which case he became a Christian, attributing it to god.

Random trivia.. I think this was the mathematician Blaise Pascal on a bridge in Paris..


Also for those who liked Outliers, if you haven't seen it already, I really enjoyed Malcolm Gladwell speaking at TED. http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/malcolm_gladwell_on_spaghetti_sauce.html

 

[andviv]

we all die in the end, so I guess given this new perspective, we're all unlucky...

We are all alive, so I guess we are all lucky...

 

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[Russ H]

Totally made up example:

Person wins a free vacation to Cancun in an office raffle - Lucky
Person breaks leg and cannot make the trip, coworker will go in place of him - Unlucky
Coworker gets fired a week before - Lucky
Person was pulled over for speeding on the way to the airport - Unlucky
Incompetent employee at check-in could not find her reservation - Unlucky
Person is late for flight and misses it by 5 minutes - Unlucky
Plane crashes and everyone dies - Lucky

My point is that "luck" is judged as a singular event in time. I believe that it's non-existent because the same event in a different context can be taken as "lucky" or "unlucky".

In the list of events above, each event can changed from lucky to unlucky and vice versa based upon the final event on the list. But there never is a final event is there? I guess the final event is death. Is someone who wins the lottery, starts a billion dollar business, lives happily until 86 and then dies in a freak accident lucky or unlucky?

I was in the air on September 10, 2001.

Came home after 2 am (on 9/11), and the phone woke me up at 7:30 am as friends began to call to see if I was OK.

Had a close friend on Flight 93.

He changed his flight literally at the last minute (he did this all the time).

He was in the air when it happened, and his plane rerouted to Canada to land (right after the planes hit, when all of the other planes in the air were landed immediately).

I spoke to him a day or so later.

He was pretty messed up.

Was he "lucky"?

-Russ H.

 

[Russ H]

RE: Above story:

I was coming back from a large convention-- started the day after Labor Day, and ended on Sept 10, 2001.

This convention was put on by the non-profit I helped co-found years earlier. I sat on the board for years.

This convention *was* our industry-- it was the event of the year. All of the new product introductions, all of the really big deals, all of the cool awards-- ALL of that happened during the convention.

If our convention had started on 9/11, or 9/12-- we would have been wiped out. Everyone would have wanted refunds-- and all of the money would have been spent on the facilities, etc.

It would have pretty much bankrupted the association.

Instead, the world (and our industry) had the MAXIMUM amount of time to recover, and the convention the following year (right before Labor day) was even bigger than the year before.

Lucky?

-Russ H.

 

[Icy]

I was in the air on September 10, 2001.

Came home after 2 am (on 9/11), and the phone woke me up at 7:30 am as friends began to call to see if I was OK.

Had a close friend on Flight 93.

He changed his flight literally at the last minute (he did this all the time).

He was in the air when it happened, and his plane rerouted to Canada to land (right after the planes hit, when all of the other planes in the air were landed immediately).

I spoke to him a day or so later.

He was pretty messed up.

Was he "lucky"?

-Russ H.

Heh, this reminds me of my friends brother. He was literally just a few people behind getting on one of the flights that hit the world trade centers. I wouldn't consider it lucky though. Certainly he is fortunate but alll the events of that day (and the past) lead to exactly that. It's funny because I always believed in free will until my philosophy class (and my own research) in which it seems to prove otherwise. It seems like what we think as luck is nothing more than an event with a "random" coincidence.

 

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[AroundTheWorld]

My point is that "luck" is judged as a singular event in time. I believe that it's non-existent because the same event in a different context can be taken as "lucky" or "unlucky".

Funny you posted this. I was logging on this morning to paste in an old Buddist story. Goes along the exact lines of your made up story.

It is a perfect example of learning to withold judgement about an event.

Where ever you go.... there you are.
What are you going to do about it?

 

[AroundTheWorld]

Yeah, but based on Bio's idea, the only event that matters is the final one... :smx8:

The only event that matters is every single event. Learn to enjoy them... each and every one. When you learn to look at the events as just... the event.... without the judgement of "good" "bad" or "lucky" . . . it is easy to start to enjoy the moment...

Mindfulness.