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Mental Health Awareness Thread

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Andreas Thiel

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Has anybody looked into ADHS beyond the parts that are established common knowledge? My sister has looked into this, and many things she learned were new to me, but I am not sure if this is a case of desperate people coming up with theories that are too far out there.

Specifically:
The aspect that people show hyperactive behaviour is not always given when they handle the "new objective" triggers mentally. In that case they experience it as their mind being chaotic and from the outside they just appear shy and introverted and maybe rude because they can't concentrate.
Also I have never heard of executive disfunction before, but I can relate to people who are close to tears when they try to explain what the right medication has done for them, like taking a shower not being a huge deal ... or them going for a walk out of impulse, when that is something that was unimaginable before being on meds.
 
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claudek

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Has anybody looked into ADHS beyond the parts that are established common knowledge? My sister has looked into this, and many things she learned were new to me, but I am not sure if this is a case of desperate people coming up with theories that are too far out there.

Specifically:
The aspect that people show hyperactive behaviour is not always given when they handle the "new objective" triggers mentally. In that case they experience it as their mind being chaotic and from the outside they just appear shy and introverted and maybe rude because they can't concentrate.
Also I have never heard of executive disfunction before, but I can relate to people who are close to tears when they try to explain what the right medication has done for them, like taking a shower not being a huge deal ... or them going for a walk out of impulse, when that is something that was unimaginable before being on meds.
The books of Daniel Amen are, based on my knowledge, the best on the topic.

The following is specifically related to ADD:

If you are really interested I recommend you to read all of his books. They are eye opening.

Little rant: after having read those books, I realized how dangerous are the recommendations of many "gurus" out there.

Also, from Amen books, your learn that there are 7 types of ADD. Some of them don't cause people to be hyperactive and each type is cured in a different way.

Mental illness simply is, in most of the cases, a problem related to too much or too little activity in one or more parts in people brains. it's a physical injury.

This forum raised Michael Singer as the solution to all your emotional and mental problems. It's not like that. Yes, he definitely helps you to improve your life, but if you have a physical injury (in your brain) you still need something else.

Psychiatrists are the only doctors that provide "solutions" without looking at the organ itself (the brain).

Do yourself and your sister a favor and read Amen books. You will find answer to all your questions.
 
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ALC

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Detaching myself from the constant scroll on social medias, Instagram and stop comparing myself was the best decisions i made for my mental health i would say.

I started to fill weird trying to compare myself to people who "LOOKED" successful but in the end now knowing most are just "Fake it till you make it"but i didnt know at the time until i consumed enough content to understand it.

Makes me realize how many people can be trapped in this loophole of insatisfaction & comparing themselves when the people they look up to are fake.

80% of them are just fake or leaving of Parents moneys, renting cars or selling bullshit online. (Youtube gurus).
The problem is that some may be stuck in believing in this fake world and the new generation is constantly on these platforms trying to be like them, in such a superficial & materialistic world.

--
Another thread on the forum was to switch our mindset to express Gratitude, i think this helped me the most in the last 2/3 years to make peace with myself and recognize the luck we have to be alive, to have a safe environment around us etc.. to really reconnect with the roots of life itself and go deeper with our inner self.
Kinda removing some weight of the shoulders and allowing me to focus on the things that really matters...

Take care of yourself guys
 

missinfinity98

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For me lately one of the best things for mental health was a meme page twisting around the patriarchate reality in a joking way. It was so soothing to read "The Matriarchat Grandmothers Committee decided: vasectomy has to be done with all stray men, meaning widowers and unmarried still guarded by mothers or sisters. Nobody knows why it caused mass protests among the men... ". Half an hour on this page instantly took anxiety and stomach pain away. I wish I was joking

 
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Andreas Thiel

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For me lately one of the best things for mental health was a meme page twisting around the patriarchate reality in a joking way. It was so soothing to read "The Matriarchat Grandmothers Committee decided: vasectomy has to be done with all stray men, meaning widowers and unmarried still guarded by mothers or sisters. Nobody knows why it caused mass protests among the men... ". Half an hour on this page instantly took anxiety and stomach pain away. I wish I was joking

Yeah that sounds like healthy reading material :rage:
 

Black_Dragon43

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Mental health?

Yes.

An awareness thread?

Mhm.

But... why?

I know. We‘re here to talk and discuss about entrepreneurship. The Fastlane. The Unscripted life.
Beneath all that, underlying like a red thread binding everything together, in my opinion, is one thing: value.

It‘s value, that we are trying to create. To build our entrepreneurial efforts upon.

So, what‘s valuable about an awareness thread on mental health?

Probably everyone suffering from a mental health disorder wants to just live a happy life. A happy life without the disorder(s).

What would be more valuable for this person, to lessen his or her symptoms? To alleviate the pain he or she is feeling within.

So, all right. What is this thread about?

It can‘t take away that inner pain. But maybe it can give people a little bit more insight into specific mental disorders.
To be able to get on a journey to alleviate that pain, to better understand the illness and/or to seek help, one needs to know about it first.

That‘s my goal with this thread.

Giving you insights, that may help you to better understand a mental disorder. If it‘s one that you may suffer from yourself, a loved one suffers from or if you‘re just interested in that topic.

So, yes. What I‘d like to do in this thread is to depict specific mental disorders. Not from a pure scientific perspective, but rather one that looks at it from the inside. Aswell as looking into resources to help someone who suffers from it.

Some of the disorders and illnesses I want to look at are depression, OCD and other anxiety disorders, PTSD, bipolar disorder, shizophrenia and borderline personality disorder.

This is going to take some time and work, mostly in research and putting everything together.

Therefore I‘d like to make sure, such a thread is ok from an admin‘s perspective. @Vigilante

If it is, I plan to start on monday with the first post on OCD.
I don't know... mental health is a thing for sure, but who shall we trust on it? OCD, PTSD, bipolar, etc. these are just labels. There is no definitive way to judge if you have these conditions or not. They are man-made, invented designations, there is very little physical proof that these are actual disorders at all.

And from what I've noticed, thinking you have such a disorder is more unhelpful, than helpful.

I'm not sure if therapy has any value, beyond keeping some alive, or keeping them "stable".

Psychologists and psychiatrists have no interest to make you into big-hitters, industry-disruptive juggernauts. That's risky, who knows what may happen. Their goal is just to make you STABLE - meaning that you fit into society, and stay in your place, don't cause any trouble. In other words, their job is to make sure you swallow the SCRIPT, and live in accordance with it. They are the guards of the system...

It's funny, but the new Matrix movies portrays exactly this... the Analyst was the ultimate guard of the system... he was the protector of the script. And "mental health" was exactly the chain he used to do it.

Where are the patients who have OCD, and gone to therapy, and are now 100% FREE of OCD as a result of going to therapy, not reliant on pills, not reliant on anything? I don't see them anywhere. I don't see psychologists producing a superman. Nowhere... and I repeat, I haven't seen a single psychologist who can brag about doing something more than "reintegrating their patients into society".

If the bar is reintegrating people into society, that's awfully low.

Where are the psychologists that turn depressed, anxious, OCD, bipolar people and make them into peak performers? I'm asking honestly... I want to know where those guys are.

Even if you look at people like Jordan Peterson, you'll see that the guy's psychology was of little use to him. He ended up needing to resort to drugs to handle his wife's cancer. And yeah, that's tough, for sure, but people have been going through family tragedies for aeons... without any drugs. To me, it seems indicative of the failure of his mindset and psychological system that he had to rely on drugs to combat his anxiety. He couldn't control it otherwise.

Mental illness simply is, in most of the cases, a problem related to too much or too little activity in one or more parts in people brains. it's a physical injury.

This forum raised Michael Singer as the solution to all your emotional and mental problems. It's not like that. Yes, he definitely helps you to improve your life, but if you have a physical injury (in your brain) you still need something else.
There is no proof at all that differences in brain activity are CAUSATIVE as opposed to CORRELATES. Of course if I'm using my mind differently than others, then there will be some differences that you can notice if you scan my brain. Of course! But it's a HUGE leap to say that this is proof that the neural correlates of those conditions are causative of them.

Again, I have yet to see someone who takes the pills and does therapy, and is a peak performer... It just doesn't happen. So the whole system, drugs + therapy, is broken.
 

missinfinity98

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Yeah that sounds like healthy reading material :rage:
You give out a vibe of a person with a lack of morality and empathy, I don't expect you to understand. I'll write a bit for someone else who might benefit from it hopefully. You came out of a vagina. It was a women's choice to give you life. For years women life's have been abused by sadly - men. There were times when wise women were burned alive. There were sad times where women were raised by crazy people in believes, that they don't have autonomy of their own bodies and lives. Times of terror and abuse. Today women all over the world still fight to protect themself. Women grieve those horrific times from the past and fight the urge not to fight back, but to co-create a beautiful, strong world where everyone is safe. It is not idyllic, yet it is important to strive for greatness and life.

There are still some silly people, who think can abuse a woman (another human being generally) and get away with it - yet times are changing and those types face natural selection. The predictions are positive and each of us is a contributor. There is a long way ahead of us - this is why self-compassion and self-reflection are crucial.
1640705676992.png
 
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fridge

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I don't know... mental health is a thing for sure, but who shall we trust on it? OCD, PTSD, bipolar, etc. these are just labels. There is no definitive way to judge if you have these conditions or not. They are man-made, invented designations, there is very little physical proof that these are actual disorders at all.

And from what I've noticed, thinking you have such a disorder is more unhelpful, than helpful.

I'm not sure if therapy has any value, beyond keeping some alive, or keeping them "stable".

Psychologists and psychiatrists have no interest to make you into big-hitters, industry-disruptive juggernauts. That's risky, who knows what may happen. Their goal is just to make you STABLE - meaning that you fit into society, and stay in your place, don't cause any trouble. In other words, their job is to make sure you swallow the SCRIPT, and live in accordance with it. They are the guards of the system...

It's funny, but the new Matrix movies portrays exactly this... the Analyst was the ultimate guard of the system... he was the protector of the script. And "mental health" was exactly the chain he used to do it.

Where are the patients who have OCD, and gone to therapy, and are now 100% FREE of OCD as a result of going to therapy, not reliant on pills, not reliant on anything? I don't see them anywhere. I don't see psychologists producing a superman. Nowhere... and I repeat, I haven't seen a single psychologist who can brag about doing something more than "reintegrating their patients into society".

If the bar is reintegrating people into society, that's awfully low.

Where are the psychologists that turn depressed, anxious, OCD, bipolar people and make them into peak performers? I'm asking honestly... I want to know where those guys are.

Even if you look at people like Jordan Peterson, you'll see that the guy's psychology was of little use to him. He ended up needing to resort to drugs to handle his wife's cancer. And yeah, that's tough, for sure, but people have been going through family tragedies for aeons... without any drugs. To me, it seems indicative of the failure of his mindset and psychological system that he had to rely on drugs to combat his anxiety. He couldn't control it otherwise.


There is no proof at all that differences in brain activity are CAUSATIVE as opposed to CORRELATES. Of course if I'm using my mind differently than others, then there will be some differences that you can notice if you scan my brain. Of course! But it's a HUGE leap to say that this is proof that the neural correlates of those conditions are causative of them.

Again, I have yet to see someone who takes the pills and does therapy, and is a peak performer... It just doesn't happen. So the whole system, drugs + therapy, is broken.
You have extremely valid points, especially that labelling yourself with a certain mental disorder is actually more harmful than helpful. Unfortunately, for a majority of people going to therapy (probably 99% or more), they will never live up to even 50% of their full potential and are struggling to make it day by day (because they rely on therapy and drugs to do all the work for them). I've been going to therapy to deal with a lot of things from the past that are affecting me now - mostly shitty parenting or lack of parenting. But one thing I recognize is that therapy isn't a tool to help me directly on my entrepreneurship journey. It's more or less just helpful in identifying and explaining hardships from the past and using that to build a better present mindset/thought pattern and understanding of myself that can help me focus on important things in my life like entrepreneurship (using CBT). It's true, therapy isn't the end all be all, but I make improvement on my own time as well, through martial arts (kickboxing, jiu jitsu), meditation, implementing stoic philosophies in my life, and a few times a year using psychedelics. I don't expect talking to a therapist one hour a week to be a miracle cure, but I do know that therapy has and is playing an important role in me becoming a better person, which will hopefully translate into me becoming a better entrepreneur.
 

missinfinity98

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Unfortunately, for a majority of people going to therapy (probably 99% or more), they will never live up to even 50% of their full potential
Where did you take those stats from? % It is hard, but it is important to remember we are in constant movement -change. Although it might not seem like it at first sight. I had a moment in my life, where I was relying too much on psychologists and psychiatrists. There are stages in healing. There is the stage called the "victim stage". Everyone who is healing from something goes through it. It is natural. This stage is not very proactive. This is why it is important not to get stuck in it. But this is a process that cannot be rushed. Everyone has got individual tempo, right?
 
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claudek

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There is no proof at all that differences in brain activity are CAUSATIVE as opposed to CORRELATES. Of course if I'm using my mind differently than others, then there will be some differences that you can notice if you scan my brain. Of course! But it's a HUGE leap to say that this is proof that the neural correlates of those conditions are causative of them.

Again, I have yet to see someone who takes the pills and does therapy, and is a peak performer... It just doesn't happen. So the whole system, drugs + therapy, is broken.
Hi @Black_Dragon43

Could you please share two things:

1- which books of Daniel Amen did you read?

2- what's the source of the correlation/causation theory in relation to brain SPECT?

I ask this last question because this technology, when used correctly, it's only a part of a more complex system.

In a professional, comprehensive psychological approach, the brain SPECT is only one part of a complex system.

In a soccer team you have the goal keeper, the defense, middlefield, and attack. In a comprehensive and professional psychological approach, you have:

- a psychiatrist/psycologist to talk to
- a proven questionnaire system filled by you and by a person close to you
- reactivity tests
- follow up visits
- brain SPECT (only when necessary) at rest and during concentration tasks.
- diet and exercise
- supplements and/or drugs

If someone tells you that the process is brain SPECT--> Diagnosis, they are wrong or they use the technology in the wrong way.

Thank you for your help
 

Black_Dragon43

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In a soccer team you have the goal keeper, the defense, middlefield, and attack. In a comprehensive and professional psychological approach, you have:

- a psychiatrist/psycologist to talk to
- a proven questionnaire system filled by you and by a person close to you
- reactivity tests
- follow up visits
- brain SPECT (only when necessary) at rest and during concentration tasks.
- diet and exercise
- supplements and/or drugs
So initially you said this:

"Mental illness simply is, in most of the cases, a problem related to too much or too little activity in one or more parts in people brains. it's a physical injury."

If it's a problem related to too much or too little activity in a part of the brain, and it's a physical injury, it follows that the state of your brain is the cause of your mental health issues.

And my assertion is that this claim is false. It's not the state of your brain, so much as how you use it that is the cause of mental health issues. There are biological factors the predispose one to mental health issues, however the activating factor is STRESS. Typically a form of stress that the person is unable to handle or cope with, that overwhelms the person.

The solution, in my eyes, is improving the way people use their brains - which is psychological strength. Not pills, drugs, or whatever. That's just a band-aid. As I mentioned before, people who resort to these means, never end up becoming high performers in most cases.

By the way, I especially find the "proven questionnaire system filled by you and by a person close to you" amusing. Imagine if we diagnosed any other medical conditions in that manner. It would be RIDICULOUS. And yet, we put so much faith in such man-made systems that have nothing to do with reality. A "proven questionnaire" is nothing more than a questionnaire dreamed up by some big hitters in the psychiatric world, who hold political influence, and who have "tested" it on patients where THEY decide what the outcome is anyway! (it's not the patients who make the final call as to their diagnostic, nor some objectively verifiable matter is it?)
 
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claudek

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So initially you said this:

"Mental illness simply is, in most of the cases, a problem related to too much or too little activity in one or more parts in people brains. it's a physical injury."

If it's a problem related to too much or too little activity in a part of the brain, and it's a physical injury, it follows that the state of your brain is the cause of your mental health issues.

And my assertion is that this claim is false. It's not the state of your brain, so much as how you use it that is the cause of mental health issues. There are biological factors the predispose one to mental health issues, however the activating factor is STRESS. Typically a form of stress that the person is unable to handle or cope with, that overwhelms the person.

The solution, in my eyes, is improving the way people use their brains - which is psychological strength. Not pills, drugs, or whatever. That's just a band-aid. As I mentioned before, people who resort to these means, never end up becoming high performers in most cases.

By the way, I especially find the "proven questionnaire system filled by you and by a person close to you" amusing. Imagine if we diagnosed any other medical conditions in that manner. It would be RIDICULOUS. And yet, we put so much faith in such man-made systems that have nothing to do with reality. A "proven questionnaire" is nothing more than a questionnaire dreamed up by some big hitters in the psychiatric world, who hold political influence, and who have "tested" it on patients where THEY decide what the outcome is anyway! (it's not the patients who make the final call as to their diagnostic, nor some objectively verifiable matter is it?)
That's fine man.

The questionnaire is just part of the system. Even a referee in a soccer game doesn't play but his role is fundamental.

Once, after several therapist, I went to this new guy. After a few sessions he couldn't understand what my problem was. So what he did? Yep, he gave me a questionnaire. Why he did it so long after the therapy started (and money paid)? Because he didn't have a system. He would have more success, IMHO, if he gave the questionnaire to everyone before starting therapy (or after the first session). It's just part of the process. It's just a questionnaire. We need to use all the tools at our disposal. You surely understand this.

I don't know how many lives you have saved (surely some as we all do in a way or the other). What I want to say, is just that this doctor saved, literally, a lot of lives and changed for the better many others.

His books are eye opening. People desperate that found solutions to problems they were dealing with for years. Nothing worked for them (traditional therapy and even drugs) until they saw their brain and understood the problem.

Also, knowing the brain, allows therapist to give specific solutions that sometimes don't involve drugs at all. Elimination diet, exercise, and supplements are great tools used by these kind of physician.

I think a lot of people out there may benefit from certain technologies.

I totally respect your point of view (as many other psychiatrist think the same). I just want to say, please, put other people first. Your point is respectable. It's just that if you read his books ("the end of mental illness" is recommended) you realize that people.may really benefit from this kind of knowledge.

Keep the doors open. You have a lot of points in this forum, be wise. People listen to you (I do).

There are a lot of people with "mental" illness. While we are not talking about "peak performance" right now, we want to help people that have problems living their life properly (these people usually don't talk, but they are here).

I wish everyone to find solutions to their problems in a quick way. Instead of going to a psychologist for years with little to no benefits (sometimes with good benefits of course), people may simply learn that they are not the problem, it's their brain the problem.

People feel bad and they blame themselves. This sucks and it's false.

Hope my point is clear. I respect your view. If you read one of his books we may find a common ground, or maybe you just have a different view, which I totally accept and that may benefit other people for sure.

We are all different, and what works for one may not work for the other.

Ray Dalio was the first one that introduced me to the concept of "chemical imbalances" in the brain. In his book "Principles: Life & Work" he explains how his son had problems with justice due to having a bipolar disorder (which they didn't know at the time).

Then, after several books and therapists (an passion and live to find a solution for his son), he realized that these kind of mental problems are simply "chemical imabalances" (this is how he calls them).

His son got treatment and produced a beautiful movie about bipolar disorder called "touched with fire".

Correlation may not be causation neither here. It's just how Ray Dalio explains the story. It's touching that part of the book. You see the love of a dad trying everything he can to change his son life for the better.

In any case, I would love to hear what would you recommend to someone that wants to change their brain through action. Exercise is surely helpful. What do you mean specifically?
 
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claudek

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To back you up, since I agree with what you say.

When I was a kid, my mama was dying from depression (I never investigated further to avoid having her relieving certain memories).

The doctor gave her antidepressant which she refused to take. Instead, she found a religious community (in a small village in Italy (not a cult, just people supporting each other) and a compassionate priest.

That community, helped her to deal with her difficulties. It saved her life.

What was the cause of her problems? As you said, STRESS. A situation she couldn't deal with.
At the same time, Daniel Amen tells a story of this 7 years old kid that was hitting his class mates, and his mama found two drawings in his bedroom: one of him hanging from a tree and the other of him killing people with guns (he was probably an artist).

After several therapist, she brought him to Daniel Amen. They did a brain SPECT and it showed that there was no left temporal lobe.

After another analysis they discovered that this poor kid had a cyst in his brain that took over his left temporal lobe (associated with anger and violence).

They found a doctor that drained the cyst, and the kid started smiling again.
Who knows, maybe some diet and intense physical activity may have helped him. Or maybe religious community. I say it seriously. We don't know, though. We just know that this doctor saved a life.

The guy who drained the cyst said that the kid could have died if a basketball would have hit his head.
 
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Black_Dragon43

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What I want to say, is just that this doctor saved, literally, a lot of lives and changed for the better many others.
Good post. Sorry, I’m just not sure which doctor you’re talking about?
In any case, I would love to hear what would you recommend to someone that wants to change their brain through action. Exercise is surely helpful. What do you mean specifically?
Well, it’s very difficult to say, because it isn’t one thing and it depends what the problem is. I’ve only had issues with OCD, anxiety and depression, so those are the subjects I can talk best about.

Personality disorders, as in Ray Dalio’s son above are a different beast - hard to treat and poorly understood.

In my experience, depression is the easiest to deal with out of the 3, and most often ended up being a result of not being able to deal with the other 2. When I felt overwhelmed by anxiety, a response to that was depression. It takes time to get out of it, and the way to do it is by establishing routines and goals that are meaningful to you.

OCD you can beat - just need to learn to face what makes you afraid (not doing your compulsions), and gradual exposure to triggers to the point you desensitivize yourself.

Anxiety I still deal with it to this day. I never quite got rid of it completely. And there is a reason why I say that, because in terms of my day to day lived experience I have very few signs of anxiety. But there are some real, physical signs that are present. For example, heart rate average is 80bpm for me and blood pressure around 135/85 even though I’m a healthy young male, never drink alcohol or coffee, eat little salt, never eat junk or drink soft drinks, exercise regularly. There is nothing physically wrong with me that would explain why my heart rate and blood pressure tend towards the high side. And if you were to give me an SSRI though, my heart rate would drop to 60bpm and blood pressure 110/70.

So I have a theory that I have a constant level of background anxiety that is always there. But, I’ve learned to control it to the point where I don’t feel much of it. I used to have panic attacks 10-15 years ago regularly… haven’t had a single panic attack ever in the past 10 years almost. It really feels like I’m immune to it now somehow.

Acute anxiety -> you control that by learning to face it. More vague anxiety, you control it by learning to take back control of your attention and shift your state.

Of course things like meditation, exercise, eating healthily, having routines, having goals -> all that helps with any mental health issue.
 

Black_Dragon43

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Ray Dalio was the first one that introduced me to the concept of "chemical imbalances" in the brain. In his book "Principles: Life & Work" he explains how his son had problems with justice due to having a bipolar disorder (which they didn't know at the time).

Then, after several books and therapists (an passion and live to find a solution for his son), he realized that these kind of mental problems are simply "chemical imabalances" (this is how he calls them).

His son got treatment and produced a beautiful movie about bipolar disorder called "touched with fire".

Correlation may not be causation neither here. It's just how Ray Dalio explains the story. It's touching that part of the book. You see the love of a dad trying everything he can to change his son life for the better.
Hmmm, it doesn't sound like this is accurate? Maybe you can provide a quote?

Here's Ray Dalio's son:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D65GD3NhjXg&ab_channel=DavidLynchFoundation


It seems transcendental meditation made the biggest difference in his life, much like it did in his father's life.

He dropped the medication below the minimum requirements...

This forum raised Michael Singer as the solution to all your emotional and mental problems. It's not like that. Yes, he definitely helps you to improve your life, but if you have a physical injury (in your brain) you still need something else.
Earlier you've said this - but it seems to me that things like meditation are more helpful in the long term than medication.

The specific treatments for each of my own conditions was different, but meditation probably provided the most global insight into it. The ability to detach from what is happening to you, and watch it from an external perspective. No medication can give you that imo.
 

ryanbleau

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Mental health guides whole health. I lucked out, wife is a shrink, which comes with its own challenges. Learned a few things over the last decade revising her papers and every discussion post she had to write. Self checks and the ability to know how far you are off your mental and emotional baseline is key. Knowing the difference between a situation and a symptom can help you find the moment you need help.
I am not an emotional person. I am by all means damaged goods and my wife is very patient with me.
I'm autistic and had to learn how to "people" because it wasn't a hardwired skillset.
I grew up in a cult that my parents are still deeply involved in that controlled everything and treated depression as a lack of faith.
My parents were both heavily drugged for depression and my mother ended up hospitolized for most of the last 2 decades

But i understand my baseline. I know when i'm far enough off of it to ask for help. For some us we need to see our actions and motivations from a point outside of ourselves. I'm not sure if this is something that could be taught or you're just born with.
We can get addicted to success to the point where not achieving success can be soul crushing. Its a drug just like heroin or alcohol. The journey has to be as important as the wins and loses need to be dealt with but not allowed to be the end.

Mental health has always been a theme for me. If something is unhealthy maybe its time to just let it go.
 
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claudek

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Hmmm, it doesn't sound like this is accurate? Maybe you can provide a quote?.

I'm not very good at adding quotes with the phone. Below is a copy paste from the book. In any case, that video (really interesting) seems to be shot after a while from the following story taken from the book. It seems Paul got to know better how meds work and improved his brain through meditation. Also, reducing the dose (also too much water kills people) brought him to a balanced state together with hours of meditation adding up and bringing him compound benefits.

Yes, meditation is a great deal. I have been doing it I think for at least 4 years. 20 minutes in the morning and 20 in the evening. I have maybe skipped 10 meditations in total and never a full day.

The following is Ray Dalio:

"I should also explain that my personal circumstances at the time also drew me to psychology and neurology. While for the most part I am keeping my family members’ lives out of this book to protect their privacy, I will tell you this one story about my son Paul as it is relevant and he is open about it.
After graduating from NYU’s Tisch film school, Paul headed out to Los Angeles to take a job. One day he went to the front desk of the hotel where he was staying while he looked for an apartment and smashed their computer. He was arrested and thrown in jail, where he was beaten up by guards. Ultimately, he was diagnosed with bipolar disorder, released into my custody, and admitted to the psychiatric ward of a hospital.
That was the beginning of a three-year roller-coaster ride that took Paul, Barbara, and me to the peaks of his manias and the depths of his depressions, through the twists and turns of the health care system, and into discussions with some of the most brilliant and caring psychologists, psychiatrists, and neuroscientists at work today. There is nothing to prompt learning like pain and necessity, and this gave me plenty of both. At times I felt as though I was holding Paul by the hand as he was dangling over a cliff—from one day to the next, I never knew whether I could hold on or if he would slip from my grip. I worked intensely with his caregivers to understand what was going on and what to do about it. Thanks both to the help he received and his own great character, Paul worked through this and is now better off than if he hadn’t fallen into his abyss, because he developed strengths he didn’t have but needed. Paul was once wild—staying out till all hours, disorganized, smoking marijuana and drinking—but he now faithfully takes his meds, meditates, goes to bed early, and avoids drugs and alcohol. He had loads of creativity but lacked discipline. Now he has plenty of both. As a result, he is more creative now than he was before and is happily married, the father of two boys, an accomplished filmmaker, and a crusader helping those who struggle with bipolar disorder.
His radical transparency about being bipolar and his commitment to helping others with it inspires me. His first feature film, Touched with Fire,

which received lots of acclaim, gave many people who might have lost their lives to bipolar disorder both the hope and the path forward they needed. I remember watching him shoot one scene based on a real conversation between us in which he was manic and I was struggling to reason with him. I could simultaneously see the actor playing Paul at his worst while the real Paul was at his best, directing the scene. As I watched, my mind flashed over his whole journey—from the depths of his abyss, through his metamorphosis into the strong hero standing in front of me, someone on a mission to help others going through what he had gone through.
That journey through hell gave me a much deeper understanding of how and why we see things differently. I learned that much of how we think is physiological and can be changed. For example, Paul’s wild swings were due to the inconsistent secretions of dopamine and other chemicals in his brain, so he could change by controlling those chemicals and the activities and stimuli affecting them. I learned that creative genius and insanity can be quite close to each other, that the same chemistry that creates insights can cause distortions, and that being stuck in one’s own head is terribly dangerous. When Paul was “crazy,” he always believed his own illogical arguments, no matter how strange they sounded to others. While more extreme in the case of someone with bipolar disorder, this is something I’ve seen most everyone do. I also learned how people can control how their brains work to produce dramatically better effects. These insights helped me to deal with people more effectively, as I will explain in detail in Chapter Four, Understand That People Are Wired Very Differently."


This is not to say they we have to take medications. It was just the first time i heard an intelligent person (Ray Dalio) saying that meds can actually be helpful in certain cases and because of physical reasons (chemistry).

Will soon writing another post with things I would like to ask you and share.
 
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Black_Dragon43

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Will soon writing another post with things I would like to ask you and share.
Nice, thanks for sharing! I’ve read Principles back when it was a PDF that Dalio was just giving away and totally didn’t remember that!

Let me know when the other post is up, I’d be glad to answer! :thumbsup:
 

claudek

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Nice, thanks for sharing! I’ve read Principles back when it was a PDF that Dalio was just giving away and totally didn’t remember that!

Let me know when the other post is up, I’d be glad to answer! :thumbsup:
My question is for general cuorisity. Why did you stop with SSRIs? It seems that they did their job in balancing heart rate and blood pressure (this thing is really interesting and I never heard about this connection). Hence, I conclude that they had a good effect on your brain/mental state and anxiety.

If you'd like to share it, it would be great. The video you sent of Paul Dalio, for instance, is the best explanation of the topic I have ever heard.

The reason why it's difficult to find open minded people talking about meds, speculating, may be that clever people usually don't take pills or they don't share it. There is a stigma attached to people that take medications (I'm the first ignorant). I see them as weak and stupid. I know it's just a judgment. It's jist something that, in some way or the other, got into my head without control. Know, studying the topic, I better understand how it works.


Changing topic.
In a podcast (from Rhonda Patrick I think) she interviews this person that helps people dealing with depression through hot therapy.

Basically they found that SSRIs increase body temperature in people. Hence, there is a connection between depression and body temperature (low).

For this reason, they started this researches and treatments where they put hot towels in different parts of people's body and use a cold towel in their head (the head is the body thermostat. Hence, with a cold head, people can last more in hot environment).

They had good results and they still user this therapy. If interested I can see if I find the podcast.

Anyway man, good job for your path. Keep going like this.

I have always had problems like depression and ADD. At least I think so, since every therapist I have been to never found anything wrong with me.

I don't take drugs but I want to get a brain assessment to see if there is something I can do to improve my life.

For instance, sometimes I'm depressed and hopeless. Then, I drink a coffee and come back to life. You may call that addiction (even if you don't drink it). I call that "caffeine that increase brain activity in some part of the brain). Then, in the long run, I don't believe coffee is beneficial for me in that sense. I get crushes and it sucks.

ADD is very fascinating as well. I just discovered what it is and how it works. Did you know that often people with hyperactivity disorders (which is a type of ADD. Not all ADD include hyperactivity) are cured with stimulants? Even people with nervous tics (I had a lot of them now much less). The reason is that these people lack dopamine in their brain. Hence, they try to stay active and to engage their brain in a way or the other. With stimulants, they get their dose of dopamine and stop seeking outside stimulus.

Even depression sometimes is caused by ADD. For instance, I read about this woman that during therapy kept telling the therapist that she wanted to kill herself. Hence she thought she was depressed. Instead, the doctor figured out that the reason why she said so was just to stimulate her brain. She had low activity in some part of her brain and the thought of killing herself gave her some stimulus. How fascinating is that? I say so because I do the same.

She got better with ADD medications ( not antidepressants).
 
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Black_Dragon43

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My question is for general cuorisity. Why did you stop with SSRIs? It seems that they did their job in balancing heart rate and blood pressure (this thing is really interesting and I never heard about this connection). Hence, I conclude that they had a good effect on your brain/mental state and anxiety.
Oh yeah, they did more than just balance heart rate and blood pressure, they also make you feel super relaxed, and some muscles in your body relax that have probably never relaxed before. That's the good side - on the bad side, they mess with your brain chemistry in a forceful and unnatural way (for example, it led to me getting benign fascicular syndrome, BFS, for about 2 years or so), they kill your drive/creativity, and they create dependency. What happens if you go on a mountain trip, or you get sent to prison, or God knows what happens and you don't have access to your SSRI?!

Also, for full disclosure, I took 3 different medications:
• SSRI (Lexapro - for 2 years)
• Benzo (lorazepam - for 1 year)
• Antipsychotic (Quetiapine - for 1.5 years or so)

Below is a private conversation I had with another member here, my reply only with some slight edits:

But I tell you, those medications weaken you. You take them, and you feel better... but you're less capable to withstand future stress. To become strong, you have to willingly accept and go through pain, without offering resistance. Avoidance of pain - that is the foundation for people who resort to drugs to battle anxiety or depression imo.

I built my business and done things that I never thought I could... and all that because I faced the pain, and learned to keep going without flinching. You know, when I quit those drugs, I went through some very hard times. One night, which was the worst, rock bottom, I woke up in the middle of the night, unable to sleep, drenched in sweat, anxiety 100/100 easy, and irrational as hell. Like I could NOT think. I know it doesn't make sense, but my mind was thinking that I am a physical building, and I can't move, and I'm crumbling and something bad is going on. Hyperventilation, full-on panic attack, confusion, the whole deal.

And I was alone at the time. I thought about calling 911, but then I said... let me wait. f*ck that, because those people, they're not helping me with anything. I have to face this alone. And no matter what happens, and no matter what I feel, I will keep breathing, moment by moment. In those moments, you know, all I wanted to do was take another breath. That was how narrow my focus became. Nothing else existed apart from the next breath. And slowly I realised that my mind was in a fog, and I literarily could not think. Some functions were no longer active. But I was aware of all this. And then, over time, my heart rate went from 180 bpm, to 120bpm, and suddenly those functions came back on. Like a veil was lifted. And then things slowly got better and better.

And that was the absolute worst.

Ever since then, I've been off the drugs for years, and much better. Nowadays, my anxiety only comes back when I'm very stressed. Initially, the reason why I got put on those medications is because I was in a period of high stress. And one day, coming back from martial arts training, I passed by a dog. And rabies is still a thing here, so my OCD started thinking what if he bit you or scratched you and you got rabies? Rabies is incurable! And it's a horrible way to die. Then I noticed this small scratch on my hand... and all shit broke loose! I thought it's from the dog, I'll get rabies, and die, etc. So in the next couple of hours I literarily started developing physical symptoms which got worse and worse. Anxiety 100/100, nausea, 120bpm heart rate, inability to breathe, diarrhea, and so on. NOTHING could calm it, and I could not sleep. Not alone, not with other people, not with anyone. And the next day, my family decided to take me to the psychiatrist, and that's when they put me on the medications. At that moment, it saved my life. I remember first day on the medication, I had NEVER felt so rested in my life. I slept like a baby!! 15-17 hours straight. And I felt absolute peace.

But over time, I realised that these pills, they're a weakness. Why was I such a pussy that I needed these pills to deal with the pain? Why? Why can't I be bigger than the pain? Why can't I train myself to become a beast, who can withstand massive stress and thrive? And it was this realisation and the decision to ACCEPT THE PAIN, whatever it was, and however hard it got, it didn't matter, that pulled me through. Just accepting that the worst that can happen is that the pain would kill me... but if it wouldn't, then I would be unbeatable.

At heart, I'm probably close to the Stoic philosophy. I agree that my brain has OCD/anxiety because of a biological reason, and especially in periods of high stress it can flare up. So what? My desire is not to escape the pain, but to become the man who can carry the pain. Drugs make you weaker. Uhh you're feeling anxious, here, take this pill, chill out bro. And next time, you're even less capable to deal with the pain, and need the pill again, and on and on. f*ck that... I don't want my anxiety to control me. And I CAN control it. So I can't sympathise with Jordan [Peterson] here. Since my whole experience tells me very strongly that his position on drugs is wrong, and he is a victim of it. The proof, as it were, is in the pudding. He trusted drugs, and he got screwed by drugs, despite his knowledge! It reminds me of Epictetus... all the books in the world are worthless if you can't apply them. And by taking those drugs, he was teaching himself how to avoid the pain, rather than how to bear it. And when the drugs stopped working, he was left with no alternatives.
The reason why it's difficult to find open minded people talking about meds, speculating, may be that clever people usually don't take pills or they don't share it. There is a stigma attached to people that take medications (I'm the first ignorant). I see them as weak and stupid. I know it's just a judgment. It's jist something that, in some way or the other, got into my head without control. Know, studying the topic, I better understand how it works.
Yes there is, but a large part of that stigma is, IMO, real, and there for valid reasons.

I'm not sure what to comment on it. I'm quite sure I don't suffer from ADD or anything similar to it, and never really had these problems. I'm a guy who can "suffer" boredom without much problems - I don't need things to do. I literarily don't need exciting stuff apart from spending time with family, and working on my business. So to me, it's a mystery how some people need all the adrenaline rushes, etc. etc. to be happy.

If I am to give my honest opinion, I think hyperactivity is a defense mechanism - it's an avoidance of something. The hyperactive person is trying to avoid awareness of something that they don't want to see/notice in their lives, so they jump like a maniac from one thing to the next and seek stimulants to excite them to keep the thing they don't want to notice outside of awareness.

From my observations, most extroverts are hyperactive, and the reason they are hyperactive is a defense mechanism. They're afraid to be by themselves, alone, and so they go to any lengths to socialise, interact with others, and so on. A lot of it is seeking after validation and approval.

Again, I'm not an expert at this, just based on what I've noticed.
 

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