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Live Rent Free in Multiple Countries

HyperFocus

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I would like to see the REAL numbers to prove 15-20%. Not saying it is impossible, but highly unlikely. I have seen how people measure their return and unless they know what they are doing, they frequently leave out some expenses thus skewing the results.

I have seen airbnb owners who rent a room in their house/flat. I have also seen where people rent their place and just go to a friend's place while their guests are there. Personally I think those are both bad options, but that is my personal preference as both a guest and a host.

I don't want to share the space with either a guest or a host. Nor would l like the idea of being kicked out of my home on short notice.



You are missing the point. It seems you are reading this from your personal frame of reference.

Consider this. You own 3 apartments. One in Barcelona. Once in Lisbon. One in Denver.

You plan your life around times in these 3 apartments. Two weeks in Barcelona. Traveling around in Europe for 2 weeks. Two weeks in Lisbon. Traveling around for 2-4 weeks. One month in Denver.

You block off your times in each of the 3 apartments making them unavailable while you are staying there. But you make them available for rent while you are away.

The rental income from your 3 apartments when you are not using them covers the cost of your apartments, all expenses, your personal expenses and travel, plus you earn some additional income from it.

This is the idea behind living rent free in multiple countries. Is that more clear?

Yes I understand your point but why not rent out the three apartments all the time because they are located on the best yield locations (at least u try).
And then live for how long of time on other places by renting yourself.
[emoji6]

You will have more money in the end + more flexibility.
 
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GlobalWealth

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What do you think, wise friend? Should I look into making a real estate investment outside the Toronto core with a 5%? I currently rent-free with my parents and am not under pressure to leave. I might be able to just transition straight into renting. Or should I look outwards?

I cannot give you specific advice. As you told me you are young. I assume 18-21. There are a lot of variables to consider. I can only tell you what I would do if I were 20 years younger.

Focus.

Focus on what makes you money and start your own business as soon as humanly possible. Save as much cash as you can. Keep a rainy day fund. Get free from the job slavery.

If investing in real estate will distract you from getting your own business up and running, don't do it yet. It may not be your time.

If investing in real estate IS the vehicle you choose to get out of that job slavery, they do not delay.

I don't know enough about the Toronto market to tell you if it is a good deal though.

Isn't there a certain feeling that real estate is a way to "park" your wealth, rather than grow it? Should I really do the mortgage thing?

Some people do in fact use real estate as a way to "park" wealth. Some people start out with leverage though and use real estate as a way to create wealth.
 

GlobalWealth

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Yes I understand your point but why not rent out the three apartments all the time because they are located on the best yield locations (at least u try).
And then live for how long of time on other places by renting yourself.
emoji6.png


You will have more money in the end + more flexibility.

I say go for it.

Or maybe I like my 3 apartments and want to spend time in them just for personal reasons. But when not there I can rent them out and earn money giving me an international rent free lifestyle.
 

HyperFocus

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I say go for it.

Or maybe I like my 3 apartments and want to spend time in them just for personal reasons. But when not there I can rent them out and earn money giving me an international rent free lifestyle.

Yes you can but disadvantages are:

-your own personal opinion isnt always the best invesment in terms of financial returns

-you cant easily move around

-long term appreciation likely will be lower

If you rent them out all the time you

-will still have international free lifestyle as you call it

-you can still live and spend time in an apartment that you personally like. In fact you will have more options because if you dont like it anymore you can move.
 
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IGP

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Great thread! If was young, single and didn't have kids, I would be all over this.
 

GlobalWealth

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-your own personal opinion isnt always the best invesment in terms of financial returns

And not all of my choices are purely financially related

-you cant easily move around

Yes I can. And do.

-long term appreciation likely will be lower

This statement makes no sense. Whether I live in my apartment full time or not has no bearing on its long term appreciation. Additionally, I never make real estate purchase decisions based on the hopes of future appreciation. That is a fools errand.

If you rent them out all the time you

-will still have international free lifestyle as you call it


You have completely misunderstood the entire thread. I will leave it to you to reread it. I cannot rewrite everything here.

-you can still live and spend time in an apartment that you personally like. In fact you will have more options because if you dont like it anymore you can move.

Apparently you feel the need to show the world that your solution is better than mine. More power too you.

I have no skin in the game if you choose to invest for income and live in rentals or follow my path. I couldn't care less.

One of my good friends is a hugely successful investor with hundreds of "doors" and he chooses to rent his own place. it works for him. It is a personal preference.

I only offered an alternative solution that gives someone the ability to own property, enjoy it, earn some income, and travel the world.

If you have a better solution, I suggest you fulfill it.
 

GlobalWealth

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Great thread! If was young, single and didn't have kids, I would be all over this.

@IGP , I am neither young, single or child free. But it works for me.
 
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HyperFocus

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And not all of my choices are purely financially related



Yes I can. And do.



This statement makes no sense. Whether I live in my apartment full time or not has no bearing on its long term appreciation. Additionally, I never make real estate purchase decisions based on the hopes of future appreciation. That is a fools errand.




You have completely misunderstood the entire thread. I will leave it to you to reread it. I cannot rewrite everything here.



Apparently you feel the need to show the world that your solution is better than mine. More power too you.

I have no skin in the game if you choose to invest for income and live in rentals or follow my path. I couldn't care less.

One of my good friends is a hugely successful investor with hundreds of "doors" and he chooses to rent his own place. it works for him. It is a personal preference.

I only offered an alternative solution that gives someone the ability to own property, enjoy it, earn some income, and travel the world.

If you have a better solution, I suggest you fulfill it.

Sorry for offending you, that was not my intention. I just tried to help by showing that living in the place you own often isnt financially the best choice. You disagree and thats fine

can you tell me why you think its dumb to buy RE in the hopes of future appreciation? Because its impossible to forsee the future or its better to focus on short term yields?

Thanks for taking the time to answer
 

GlobalWealth

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Sorry for offending you, that was not my intention. I just tried to help by showing that living in the place you own often isnt financially the best choice. You disagree and thats fine

I'm not offended. You came across as argumentative. There is no point in me restating the premise of the thread. You even make a statement here that "living in the place you own isn't the best...".

You cannot say this is true for all people. In fact, I personally live in multiple apartments. And all of them make me money. Is that the best choice for you? I don't know. It's none of my business. But it is the best choice for me at this point in my life.

The world is not black and white. Best to learn that early.

can you tell me why you think its dumb to buy RE in the hopes of future appreciation? Because its impossible to forsee the future or its better to focus on short term yields?


It is impossible to know the future. You should never buy a property at 100k with the expectation it will appreciate to 150k in X# of years.

However, if you buy the property at 100k and it earns 10k, then you know you can earn 10k in cashflow. If the property falls to 80k, you are not terribly concerned. If it goes to 150k, maybe you sell, maybe you keep earning 10k.

I have never met a smart real estate investor that buys a property hoping for future appreciation. The clowns in the 90's and early 00's bought "knowing" property would appreciate 5-10% per year so they were willing to take break even or negative cashflow. Those clowns now work at Starbucks making my coffee.
 

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GlobalWealth

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What do you for school? Home school I'm guessing? Or are your kids grown?
Now my daughter is 19 (almost 20). But when she was younger she was in an online school.

Previously my youngest son was also in an online school when he was living solely with me (divorced).

Now my 2 sons (16 and 8) live with their mother in the states.

I am not a huge fan of home school as I don't want to be the teacher. But there are many online schools that work great.

Last year my 8 year old spent an average of 2 hours per day with his online school. He could work at his own pace. Some days we had a busy day and he didn't do school at all. Then he would work longer days to get caught up.

But he got a much more valuable education. Just in the past year he spent time in Latvia, Estonia, Hungary, Panama, St Martin, Anguilla, Canada, and several parts of the US.

That education is priceless and can never be duplicated in a classroom.

All 3 of my kids have been in 25-30 countries in total.

My daughter now lives in London on her own. Without her earlier experiences I doubt she would have been confident enough to buy that one way ticket to London almost 2 years ago.




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Paul David

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Some very valuable information in this thread, thank you @GlobalWealth.

My question is regarding purchasing your first property using your 30% mortgage example down payment. If I only had enough cash to make one down payment and my new property is bringing in $5000 - 10,000 a year net. How do get myself in a position to buy another one?

I'd have to wait 5 years to make $25,000 - $50,000 from the first one to use as a down payment against the second one or am I missing something?



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GlobalWealth

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Some very valuable information in this thread, thank you @GlobalWealth.

My question is regarding purchasing your first property using your 30% mortgage example down payment. If I only had enough cash to make one down payment and my new property is bringing in $5000 - 10,000 a year net. How do get myself in a position to buy another one?

I'd have to wait 5 years to make $25,000 - $50,000 from the first one to use as a down payment against the second one or am I missing something?



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Think outside the box.

There are investors just looking for yield willing to do private mortgages.

Find one who will lend you cash privately and use that for a down payment. Just be careful.

Private lenders want higher interest rates. You need to ensure you have sufficient cash flow to cover all debts.

This will make you work harder to find "no brainer" deals.

Start with FF&F (friends, family and fools) to borrow money.

If you are in the US and have good credit (>700) you should be able to buy with 10-20% down.

You can also do some flips to build cash.

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biophase

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Yes I understand your point but why not rent out the three apartments all the time because they are located on the best yield locations (at least u try).

Renting as a short term/vacation rental yields higher rates than doing a 1 year lease. Of course that is assuming that occupancy rates are decent.

It really depends on the numbers and it may just end up being exactly the same return after you factor in your "free" two weeks of living at the place.

I struggle with this when I purchase real estate. Do I use it when I want to? What is my lost revenue when I'm using it?

In my case, the cost of me using my potential vacation home was $15,000/mo. This was because I wanted to stay in it during the prime season when it would have rented at $500/night. So for me it was better to NOT buy a property there and just go rent someone else's home when I wanted to stay there. Instead, I bought a normal rental and rented it out on a yearly lease somewhere else.
 

HyperFocus

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Renting as a short term/vacation rental yields higher rates than doing a 1 year lease. Of course that is assuming that occupancy rates are decent.

It really depends on the numbers and it may just end up being exactly the same return after you factor in your "free" two weeks of living at the place.

I struggle with this when I purchase real estate. Do I use it when I want to? What is my lost revenue when I'm using it?

In my case, the cost of me using my potential vacation home was $15,000/mo. This was because I wanted to stay in it during the prime season when it would have rented at $500/night. So for me it was better to NOT buy a property there and just go rent someone else's home when I wanted to stay there. Instead, I bought a normal rental and rented it out on a yearly lease somewhere else.

Hey Biophase,

Yes you are correct. If you airbnb u can get 2-4x more than with long term contract. Def possible.

I see why you decided to make that decision. The vacation home wouldnt be wise in your case.

My point is that when buying RE its also possible to purely focus on getting the best place as an investment with high yields + future potential, rather than to think about where you would like to live. I didnt mean that long term rent is better than short term, that depends. I just meant that in either case one could focus purely on the economical side, Because the higher yields you get can be used to rent another place whenever u want to go there, you wont lose money, in fact you will gain financially + will have a more free mind in picking where to go in the future.
Many people often focus on where they would like to live in the future or where they can go to during the holiday, but where you want to live is not always where others want to stay.

Off topic: I read several of your threads. You have given me several insights and ideas, thanks a lot for that. If you ever have some questions regarding marketing you can always ask me. Btw Im currently in conversation with several factories in China and hope they can do what I want, exciting !! :)
 

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@GlobalWealth thanks for this awesome thread, something I would definitely consider when I want to take money out of my business.

My question to you is what percentage of your investments do you have in these apartments?
 
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GlobalWealth

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My question to you is what percentage of your investments do you have in these apartments?

Let's just say I'm heavily invested and still shopping.
 

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Let's just say I'm heavily invested and still shopping.

Are there certain countries you would reccommend to start with? I am sure that almost any country can work, but through your expertise are there any that you had an easier time whether it be finding deals, laws, traffic etc.
 

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Are there certain countries you would reccommend to start with? I am sure thaGood t almost any country can work, but through your expertise are there any that you had an easier time whether it be finding deals, laws, traffic etc.

@NYCGoblin , if you are doing this for a combination of lifestyle and profit, then make sure it is a place you like to spend time personally.

Right now on my radar are: Medellin, Colombia; Alicante, Spain; Lisbon, Portugal; Budapest, Hungary.

For me, all of these meet my personal criteria:
  • I like the areas
  • Low cost of living
  • Relatively high visitor traffic
  • Good occupancy rates
  • Good daily rental rates, thus good yield
  • Low cost properties
 
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NYCGoblin

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@NYCGoblin , if you are doing this for a combination of lifestyle and profit, then make sure it is a place you like to spend time personally.

Right now on my radar are: Medellin, Colombia; Alicante, Spain; Lisbon, Portugal; Budapest, Hungary.

For me, all of these meet my personal criteria:
  • I like the areas
  • Low cost of living
  • Relatively high visitor traffic
  • Good occupancy rates
  • Good daily rental rates, thus good yield
  • Low cost properties
Thank you for the reply @GlobalWealth I am very much looking forward to your presentation at the summit!
 
Last edited:

ace81385

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@NYCGoblin , if you are doing this for a combination of lifestyle and profit, then make sure it is a place you like to spend time personally.

Right now on my radar are: Medellin, Colombia; Alicante, Spain; Lisbon, Portugal; Budapest, Hungary.

For me, all of these meet my personal criteria:
  • I like the areas
  • Low cost of living
  • Relatively high visitor traffic
  • Good occupancy rates
  • Good daily rental rates, thus good yield
  • Low cost properties

Hi,

I've been following the thread, thought I should jump in and ask a few questions.

I was recently in Colombia(Cartagena) thought that might be a good location.
Prague, but I wonder if prices are high, I was living there 10 years ago a student and wanted to badly buy in the Old Town area.

Right now with depreciation of currency in Asia vs USD I was thinking about Bali, Indonesia or Phuket and Bangkok ,Thailand. I was just in Thailand and its incredibly cheap and full of tourists, specifically backpackers from Europe. However I believe you cant actually own land in these countries so you have land leases? Which I don't recall if this was discussed earlier in the thread, I imagine is not an ideal situation.

I really need to do some further research into this as I would like to have the ability to bounce around the world while earning income and this maybe a good way to start.

I appreciate your advice thus far, has been helpful/
 

GlobalWealth

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I was recently in Colombia(Cartagena) thought that might be a good location

If you like Cartegena, I think it would be great. I personally don't like it - too hot.

I will most likely be visiting Medellin though in a couple of weeks.

Prague, but I wonder if prices are high, I was living there 10 years ago a student and wanted to badly buy in the Old Town area.

Prague is too expensive now. Overly Germanized.

If you like Prague and are looking for a similar city but lower cost property, look at Riga, Vilnius, Belgrade and Budapest.

I primarily live in Riga and was just apartment shopping again today and the prices of property as fallen due to an increase in property taxes this year for non-residents. Personally, I think this is an opportunity as there is a flood of properties hitting the market as some Russian investors are unloading. But the tourism market has not changed. So yes, your property taxes will be higher, but your yield will be MUCH higher.

Budapest is one of my top favorite cities in the world and remains ridiculously cheap.

I think Asia would be tough, as you mentioned there are some issues with foreigners owning property. I have a Russian client who owns 15 apartments in Thailand, but he had to jump through a lot of hoops to get it done. And now he is trying to unload them.
 
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ace81385

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If you like Cartegena, I think it would be great. I personally don't like it - too hot.

I will most likely be visiting Medellin though in a couple of weeks.



Prague is too expensive now. Overly Germanized.

If you like Prague and are looking for a similar city but lower cost property, look at Riga, Vilnius, Belgrade and Budapest.

I primarily live in Riga and was just apartment shopping again today and the prices of property as fallen due to an increase in property taxes this year for non-residents. Personally, I think this is an opportunity as there is a flood of properties hitting the market as some Russian investors are unloading. But the tourism market has not changed. So yes, your property taxes will be higher, but your yield will be MUCH higher.

Budapest is one of my top favorite cities in the world and remains ridiculously cheap.

I think Asia would be tough, as you mentioned there are some issues with foreigners owning property. I have a Russian client who owns 15 apartments in Thailand, but he had to jump through a lot of hoops to get it done. And now he is trying to unload them.


I assumed that about Prague, would have been a smart decision looking back on it now but oh well.

Budapest is a good choice I've traveled there as well, ill do some further research.

Riga, i haven't been yet would definitely consider it however is knowing Russian and or Latvian necessary?
 

GlobalWealth

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I assumed that about Prague, would have been a smart decision looking back on it now but oh well.

Budapest is a good choice I've traveled there as well, ill do some further research.

Riga, i haven't been yet would definitely consider it however is knowing Russian and or Latvian necessary?
No. I speak bad Russian and worse Latvian and have no issues whatsoever.

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I assumed that about Prague, would have been a smart decision looking back on it now but oh well.

Budapest is a good choice I've traveled there as well, ill do some further research.

Riga, i haven't been yet would definitely consider it however is knowing Russian and or Latvian necessary?

In Riga and overall in Latvia it is now quite easy to communicate in English. Most of people now 3 languages - Latvian, English and Russian.

And I agree with GlobalWlth that in Riga and also even more in Jurmala (more a tourism city near sea) priceas for real eastate is now good for shopping.
 
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GlobalWealth

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In Riga and overall in Latvia it is now quite easy to communicate in English. Most of people now 3 languages - Latvian, English and Russian.

And I agree with GlobalWlth that in Riga and also even more in Jurmala (more a tourism city near sea) priceas for real eastate is now good for shopping.
Are you in Riga?

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Near Riga, going to Riga almsot every day.
Let me know when you're in town. I am right in the center near freedom monument. I just sent you a pm.

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ace81385

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In Riga and overall in Latvia it is now quite easy to communicate in English. Most of people now 3 languages - Latvian, English and Russian.

And I agree with GlobalWlth that in Riga and also even more in Jurmala (more a tourism city near sea) priceas for real eastate is now good for shopping.


Okay Great thanks guys for the information. I started doing some preliminary research last night.
 

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While I think rents and property prices are still too high for the living standard of the population here in Lisbon (1 bedroom in a shared house takes half of the minimum wage), the rest is really really cheap.

I just stockpiled my kitchen with 90 EUR, home delivery included: 8 boxes of cereal, 5 packs of cookies, 5Kg of Spaguetti, 1.5 Kg of Bag Fries, 60 Litters of bottled water, 24 litters of milk, 3 frozen pizzas, 1Kg of frozen meatballs, 6 litters of pepsi and some bathroom stuff

Conclusion: it is really that cheap, and my diet sucks :D

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