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HOT TOPIC Let’s be real: If you're over 35, you don't have a chance.

Kevin88660

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What I am saying is that it is okay to be broke at 30 and not affecting you getting married and have kids later.

You try it at 40. Good luck.
 

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Kevin88660

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What I am saying is that it is okay to be broke at 30 and not affecting you getting married and have kids later.

You try it at 40. Good luck.
It is the same with job market.

At 30 if you are broke you can go back and work. After your hands get itchy again you might even venture into business again later.

But at 40 if you are broke and all you had is 15 years of entrepreneurship experience, you cannot even have that option because you are deemed as “too old to be trained” with no relevant experience. You have to keep doing entrepreneurship or drive a taxi.
 

MTEE1985

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So. Much. Straw.

I believe what my fellow FLF members are trying to ascertain is...what exactly was your goal by posting this thread? Pontificate about what life is like for people at an age you won’t reach for a decade?

There are certain people in this world that could be handed a business selling $20 bills for $10 and they would find a dozen reasons it wouldn’t work.

Your two biggest problems are A) saying this is reality. No. That is your reality. You are projecting your own limitations on the rest of the forum. There is no mathematical equation stating that a 20 year has a better chance than a 35 year old because there are way too many variables.

B) Like any strawman argument you can always twist it in your favor. Who has a better chance of succeeding...a 20 year old that read a couple books and thinks he wants to pursue entrepreneurship or a 35 year old who read the same books, commits to it AND spent the last decade building up a network of multimillionaire and billionaire contacts? So while the 20 year old is “stifled by resources” (where have I heard that before?) the 35 year old can make one phone call and get a $5,000,000 investment with the right idea.

See what I did there? Nobody in their right mind would bet on the 20 year over the 35 year old.

You are completely within your rights to think all this nonsense but again I ask: who are you helping by bringing it to a forum full of entrepreneurs of all ages? Because by my count you have about 2 people that agree with you and dozens that don’t with hundreds more who haven’t posted a thing who would also disagree.

Instead of offering up advice on things you think you’ve experienced but actually haven’t why don’t you jump in more often on the fitness/fasting threads where it sounds like you can offer up tremendous value?
 
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cy-

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This is dumbest thread I've read in a long time.

I am 23 like you, I already hit my first "small" success after 3 years of failure and being broke AF.

You compare a tree growing 20 years with a seed being planted today.

You also compare someone doing a specific sport from e.g. 16 year old against someone who starts at 35.

This comparison does not work in entrepreneurship and let me tell you why.

An entrepreneurial success can be hit within 3-5 years

Your logic implies that someone who hits a huge success at 23 years old would keep making new companies and trying to hit the same or bigger success continuously, just like the tree would continuously grow and the athlete will continuously practice day-in and day-out.

This is simply not the case for many successful entrepreneurs.

And even if it IS, then it wouldn't matter.

Why? Because even if the guy who started at 23 kept hitting successful ventures and started having a networth of $1 billion, then the guy who started at 35 would hit one venture and "only" be worth $100 million.

The difference here in terms of lifestyle is non-existent for the most part. So who cares?

Your logic is flawed and you keep putting disclaimers to your own statements that makes no sense.

For example you make excuses in all of your posts and then say "I CLEARLY stated that I am not making excuses".

It doesn't mean you make any less excuses because you say that you are not making excuses, when excuses is what you are actually making.. The whole time..
 

bibbysoka

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I don't agree with OP entirely that 35 years old have fixed bad patterns that cant be changed. Quite the contrary people do not change until a crisis hit and the crisis doesn't arrive until they have doe enough damage to themselves. Usually it happens at a later age when the damage has been accumulated over the years.

My main issue was risk tolerance. People seldom marry that early today at early 20s and if they do the male more or less made a conscious choice that career ambition and entrepreneurship is not that important. Forget about business, a lot of corporate front line jobs (investment banking) demands hours that married people cant provide.

Even if you compare a 25 year old single man versus 35 year old single man, the 25 year old has more options. As I said he can try an adventure and fail. At age 29 he can go back to corporate world and work the typical way and get married.

But let us say at age 29 he didn't go back to the corporate world he tried another adventure and failed. He is 35 now, with not too much money in the bank account. He has thoughts about finding a girl to start a family but he doesn’t have a stable finance to fall back on. He saw another business opportunity and he wonders whether he should give it a try. In short he faces a dilemma that the 25 years old didn't have to face. He has to sacrifice other areas of his live to pursue the entrepreneurship goal.

Well then of course. Anyone would agree that you if you have a family, loved one, or any other obligations, that it takes more work than if you're completely single. But we're talking about age.
 

Mattie

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Brian and Kevin - you guys are confused. It's not being 'optimistic' to say that you can succeed at any age. It's having an open mind.

If a 19 year old and a 35 year old both knew nothing about business and started from scratch, who would do better?

If they both knew nothing about programming and started to learn at the same time, who would be a better programmer?

The funny thing is, the 35 year old would more than likely do better. However, the age doesn't matter. There are other factors at play that are more important than age.

Your NBA analogy is shit. This isn't the nba.
I don't know about that. Ha ha...I remember when my son was five years old I put him on chess game online because he loved playing and picked an 18 years old just to see if he could beat him. And he had just been tested for his intelligence and went off the charts. He beat the 18 year old, and the guy said oh your good. I answered, you just got your a$$ kicked by a 5 year old and I'm his mother. :rofl:
I believe it depends on the person actually. I've watched him create his own servers, coding, scripting, and he's been doing this forever now an only 24.
Started creating his own video game this last year from scratch and chosen as a class project out of other students ideas by the professor.
He was on the internet since he was 2 and always had a gadget in his hand, mechanical, technical, and of course that is my fault, but amazing how he has figured out so much along the way himself.
Also loves robotics and engineering.
I believe age has nothing to do with it.
 

Tubs

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LOL. The posts here are very funny, and sad. I CLEARLY stated that I am not making excuses. I am 23 not 35.
If that's the case then why notwork on getting shit done rather than asking questions that have noting to do with your situation?
 

Boychamp

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I didn't read through all this so if someone already posted this, my bad. Anyway, check out this article, based entirely on just the stats..
"Research: The Average Age of a Successful Startup Founder Is 45"
Basically, the average age of the highest growth start-ups is around age 45. Tech start-ups which get more news coverage tend to skew a little younger, around 30's but the myriad of other industries skew older.
 

Fox

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I can tell you that most 35 years old have a much better chance then you do right now at 23.

Your mindest sucks and you are burning up brain power in all the wrong areas.

You can mentally masturbate to this and most of your other threads while you waste your 20s.

Meanwhile, there are 35-year-olds out there who are just getting started now who will crush you.
 

Champion

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I believe you can achieve anything at any age, as long as you had your FTE (F*ck this event).

I know .. I know... sounds like im just repeating what MJ says, but I've had the turnaround myself in different areas of my life now and for me personally, it really was just like that.

Once lying down on the nail hurts enough, You finally decide to get up and do something about it, for real.

And the funniest and most ironic thing about it is: You end up realising that taking action requires just as much energy as not taking action.

As an analogy: Getting out of bed after the first 5 seconds you wake up in the morning takes just as much mental energy as hitting the snooze button 4 times and listening to your brain to tell you to stay in bed.

It really is like that..

No need to ask questions such as "will it work" or "is it possible" because the answer will always be: YES, it is.

Ok great, so now go do it, because doing it will be just as difficult as not doing it and living with regret!

Best
 

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guy93777

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What I am saying is that it is okay to be broke at 30 and not affecting you getting married and have kids later.

You try it at 40. Good luck.


Grant Cardone is 61 . he is married with kids and he has the energy and the busy life of a 35 years old guy. he doesn't want to retire

25855




Bob Proctor is 85 ! and he is still giving seminars ! ( lol by the way )



25856





Dan Pena is still working like crazy with his protegees . he is 73


25857



and so on . the list is endless



.
 

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Process

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Let’s be real, can you make it when your past 35? Now I KNOW what more then the majority of this site will say. “Of course you can! There are so many examples! You can do anything you set your mind to!”

The reality is that one’s youth is HIGHLY HIGHLY influential in the direction of one’s life. Take a guy who got bullied since pre school. He will grow up thinking he is unlovable. This will cause him to not try in anything. This will then further reinforce his low value even further creating a downward spiral. Can he fix this? Of course. And many have. But some won’t. And those that didn’t receive that negative feedback will have a major advantage.

The same with any skill. If you are 6’7 and want to join the NBA at 31 you have no shot. The guy who was 6’7 and wanted to join the NBA since 7 will outclass you 10000%.

I think the same could be with entrepreneurship or with anything. The younger you are the more positive reference experience you will get which will further reinforce your level of output and energy to get the result. The upward spiral of awesomeness. The opposite holds true as well.

Let’s be honest. How many that start (key word start) at 35 actually make it?

Customers don’t care as long as you solve their annoyance/frustration/etc.

I nominate this post for #landfill

@MJ DeMarco @Andy Black
 

socaldude

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There is some truth to what you are saying but it depends on what variables you are talking about.

There is more than one variable you can leverage to get rich. Not just genetics or family or social environment. You can leverage other variables you can directly control.

What if that 35 year old is an attorney with lots of life experience who just wants to do something else? My bet is he would be way more successful than some 22 year old kid who just plays video games.

Now if you are some 35 year old who is just stupid and lazy compared to some 22 year old who just launched a prototype then it's different.
 

Andy Bell

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Just grabbed this from the inc website....some motivation :) I just turned 30 and this is the first year I am making any real quit your job money after 5 years of trying to get my business started.
  1. Liu Chuanzhi founded Lenovo at 39
  2. Gordon Moore founded Intel at 39
  3. Amancio Ortega founded Zara at 39
  4. Cher Wang founded HTC at 39
  5. Min Kao founded Garmin at 38
  6. Wayne Hughes founded Public Storage at 38
  7. Masaru Ibuka founded Sony at 38
  8. Hugo Boss founded Hugo Boss at 37
  9. Milton Hershey founded Hershey's at 37
  10. Doris Fisher founded Gap at 36
  11. Rowland Macy founded Macy's at 36
  12. Reid Hoffman founded LinkedIn at 36
  13. Namihei Odaira founded Hitachi at 36
  14. J C. Jacobsen founded Carlsberg at 35
  15. Marc Benioff founded Salesforce at 35
  16. William Boeing founded Boeing at 35
  17. William Procter founded Proctor & Gamble at 35
 

C.Hamp

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This post is the poster child of ignorance. Sorry, not trying to be a jerk. But its dripping with it.
I've trained more elite level marathoners than I can remember. Ive attended every major marathon the world over, multiple times each. But that number is a fraction of the number of people over the age of 35, 45, 55, and 65 I've seen turn their life around and go from couch potatoes to literal changed person.
I don't need to argue the dumb in this thread. I've seen more proof of the opposite than I can possibly remember.
All it takes is the right spark.
When I first read the OP I thought maybe it was a joke. Still hoping it was....
 
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Matt Dassel

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I was actually looking for a solid argument but there isn't. It should be clear that waiting too long until you are 35 is just not living with enough ambition.

But as you haven't defined what field of success you were referring to there isn't much to be said. Looking at your age and trying to solve this matter is a pure gamble. An idea too much subjective to entertain.
 

broswoodwork

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F*ck yeah! I started this business at exactly 35; what good luck I have.

See ya never geezers!
 
OP
OP
Brian Suh

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I think you guys are highly missing my point. Of course people can succeed. In fact I do believe that someone at 35 because of (hopefully) their maturity can succeed harder than most youngsters as they are only focused on fun usually. All I’m saying is have you ever seen someone deep in the script (or sh1t) escape at 35? They have to get out of the mud of family responsibilities, bad habits and beliefs, social conditioning, and rationailzatio s. MJ himself uses the 99% to 1% ratio in most of his chapters in unscripted. I don’t think that is a coincidence and I think that’s true.
Most people sleep walk through life. Walk outside anytime and I guarantee you will see a majority of grumpy faces. I don’t like that it’s likr that but it is. I say the same with marriage. Some people are so invested in their marriage that they won’t leave. Same with their beliefs.
Again. I’m not saying give up. Not AT ALL. I apologize to anyone that took it that way. Still need to work on my writing and my talent of articulating my thoughts clearly.
 

JScott

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I find it hilarious that the OP based his entire premise off his "beliefs." And pretty much every response to the OP has been based off of other posters' beliefs, anecdotal evidence or personal experience ("I know a guy...").

The cool thing is, there is actual data out there if you want to look for it. Yeah, it takes about 30 seconds, but it's worth it!

Here's research out of MIT, Harvard, Duke, Northwestern and a few other schools:





Long story short, the OP is wrong. And there is data to back it up.
 

Garret S.

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If your chronological age is advancing, delay your biological age by taking care of your health and exercising regulary.

That way if you are already in your late thirties, then you will still have the energy and a sharp mind of a mid twenties man to execute on your business.
 

FierceRacoon

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@Brian Suh I've thought about this question for a long time in the context of learning skills (e.g. your NBA example).

My current opinion is that
- yes, there are limitations, and
- you will be thrilled even if you achieved half or 10% of your dreams.

Let's say you are 31 and you really love basketball, and you decide to go for it. You can't do it full-time, but you try to do it 10-15 hours/week most weeks, and spend a good amount of cash on private coaching. After 5 years you still feel like a beginner. After 10 years it feels like you have a chance, but you are also getting tired easily as you get older.
Finally, say, at 46 you become a pro. You don't join NBA but, say, move to another country and join a team and make "only" 200K/year in salary. Yet you become a professional basketball player and play until your early 60s, when your knee problem makes you stop.

Would you call it a failure? If this were to happen to you, I bet you'd be thrilled. In other words, yes, it may not be possible to join NBA starting at 31. However, it may be possible to go very far so as to completely fill your life with meaning and the excitement of proving everyone wrong. In that sense I would say, go for it.

The same applies to entrepreneurship. Say that in 10 years all you have is $5k/month in passive income and an ability to make $200/hour by consulting remotely, on your own schedule. Guess what, this is still awesome. You still get to travel, spend time with your family, play basketball or whatever you like You may not be able to afford a Lamborghini, but the rewards are still worth it.
 

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biophase

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After a certain age, you are DONE. Don't believe me?

Walk outside and look around. You will see a mass of people whose dreams have been destroyed. Why? If someone starts again at 35 and realizes that their beliefs have been messed up and that they have to rewire it like christmas lights they will beat themselves up for years and have to restart again.
Those people were done at 23. The people with destroyed dreams never had a chance because they never pursued the dreams at 23.

You can blame the age game all you want, but you are done at 23 because you believe you are done at 35. Just like the 18 year will believe that you are done at 23.

Do you see the irony in your post "someone starts again at 35 and realizes that their beliefs have been messed up and that they have to rewire it like christmas lights"? You are talking about yourself at 35 and don't even know it.

BTW, you should probably find out what age most people on this forum started their business. For me it was 36. Steve O said 37. @MJ DeMarco , what about you?

Let me put it this way. There's no way at 47 that I can try to compete in MMA or the NBA, but I sure a f*ck have a chance at competing with the corporate big boys in any business.
 
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biophase

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The 35 year old guy simplify has less risk tolerance.

If he was to quit his decent paying job in F&B and start to learn coding and try to start a business based on that his newly wed wife will kill him. I haven't include children in the picture.

He has less options in business choice. At age 25 you can join a new industry that people never heard off and start a business to attract users even though the profit model is unclear. Get a VC and get going first. Worry about the rest later. Even if fails you can always get a job at 29 and have a wonderful experience. Your life is not screwed.

At age 35 if you want to do business, It has to perform NOW. Money has to come in in the next quarter or this is a bad idea. You just cannot be adventurous as the 25 years old. If you have some saving at hand you can afford to wait longer take more risk. But if let us say at age 35 if you have nothing but just ten years of entrepreneurship experience with not much money, it is a bad idea to keep being adventurous. You have to do things that turns into sales and profit quickly.
Kevin, why don't you compare a single guy at 23 vs. a single guy at 35? We are talking about age, not about other circumstances like finding a girl friend, job or getting married.

What does this have to do with their skills in starting a business?

I think your financial advisor background is clouding your judgement because you are clearly dealing with time horizons here. Telling a 35 yo not to take high risks is something a financial advisor would say. A business advisor would say the opposite, "you have to take risks now because it's too late for compounding interest an a job to save your a$$ from retirement."
 

Kevin88660

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Kevin, why don't you compare a single guy at 23 vs. a single guy at 35? We are talking about age, not about other circumstances.

I think your financial advisor background is clouding your judgement because you are clearly dealing with time horizons here. Telling a 35 yo not to take high risks is something a financial advisor would say. A business advisor would say the opposite, "you have to take risks now because it's too late for compounding interest an a job to save your a$$ from retirement."

BTW, you should probably find out what age most people on this forum started their business. For me it was 36. Steve O said 37. @MJ DeMarco , what about you?
I did import and wholesales/distributing business in 2016-2017, didn't work out and I closed it. I am coming 31 end of this year.

You are right to say my time horizon mindset is at work now. But I am not just plucking a theory from somewhere I read. I am forming my opinion based on people I know. There is difference between a person doing business at 25 versus 35. The 35 year old (assuming no money) has to sacrifice a bit more and take a bigger hit if the business took him another few years of his time and didn't work out, compared to a 25 years old who can simply take his failure as a useful experience.

Let us say both are single. The 25 year old guy spent five years and his business venture didn't work out. At age 30 being broke, he can go back and get a job, find a girl and get married. If he is broke at 40, with nothing but 15 years of entrepreneurship experience in three different start ups, he will have less options in finding work and getting a girl to marry.

However if someone at age of 35, has accumulated a significant amount of money to cushion against financial uncertainty, and he has enough industry experience and contacts to start his business, then he would be stupid to not take the leap forward. And he is definitely in a position far better than a kid right out of college.

I am not advocating not taking risk. It is a personal decision. If someone older is willing to sacrifice more for the entrepreneurship dream he deserves my respect. Some people like to go big or go home and they are willing to sacrifice everything. There is nothing wrong with that.

But most people get into business to make money to improve their lives. What I am saying is it is better to count your chips and guess the odds before placing your bet.
 

GoodluckChuck

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In an era where people are regularly going from 0 to millions in a matter of a few years I find this post a little rediculous.

How many people over the years have lost everything and rebuilt even bigger? I bet most of them were over 35.

If you discount 0-18 as childhood then 35 years old is less than 1/3 of your adult life.

Also, it's not all about money. If someone has modest tastes then they can have a very nice life with little money. Freedom is a nice paycheck.
 

million$$$smile

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This thread is so sophomoric.
Who really cares? Does it make you feel better if you are in that elite age bracket that you think is the best time to succeed? Or feel worse if you are older (or younger) than the ideal age you believe is right?

It reminds me of guys sitting around and bragging about who scored first in high school or junior high.

Really?

So what if the slowlane mainstream thinks that 28 or 30 is the prime age for business success.
I'd rather be around a 16 year old that is driving sales to a growing website or a 62 year old that is building a value based business to geriatrics. I am more inspired by those outliers than by the status quo. And I learn a lot more.

I'd rather become #3 or #4 in a Billion dollar industry than #1 in a million dollar industry.

I don't care about being the back story of some statistic. I'll focus on being the front story of my success.

Sometimes we unconsciously compare ourselves by skewing our belief systems thinking we are the
beneficiaries of success because some star aligned in our favor or a news article puts us in a group, or we become legends in our own mind because we made $50 before breakfast.

I've already wasted enough time ranting on this officious thread.

What. A. Waste. Of. Time.

Out.
 

JScott

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I did import and wholesales/distributing business in 2016-2017, didn't work out and I closed it. I am coming 31 end of this year.
So, statistically, there's an infinitely better chance that you'll start a successful business *AFTER* 30 than you will *BEFORE* 30... ;)

You are right to say my time horizon mindset is at work now. But I am not just plucking a theory from somewhere I read. I am forming my opinion based on people I know.
Okay, so you're admitting that you haven't looked at actual data, and instead are just basing your beliefs on a non-random sample of people who are likely similar to you.

Why do you think a tiny, non-randomized sample of people who are all likely pretty similar is a better way to make a determination than actually looking at data that researchers have accumulated?

Let us say both are single. The 25 year old guy spent five years and his business venture didn't work out. At age 30 being broke, he can go back and get a job, find a girl and get married. If he is broke at 40, with nothing but 15 years of entrepreneurship experience in three different start ups, he will have less options in finding work and getting a girl to marry.
You're making up stories that support your opinion. I noticed you didn't include in your story that the 25 year old was likely out partying more, the 25 year old likely didn't have as much seed capital, the 25 year old didn't have as many business connections, the 25 year old likely didn't have as much experience, the 25 year old was likely still paying off student debt, the 25 year old was likely more focused on girls/guys, etc.

Picking and choosing a few details in your story to support your thesis makes no sense. Especially when you leave out a whole lot of other details that are likely true and DON'T support your thesis.

Also, here's the most important point:

Most business owners don't get successful on their first venture. Or their second. And probably not their third either. Success is a process, and that process takes time. The more time you invest in learning how to build a business, the more likely you are to be successful.

You had a failed business at 31. I had several failed businesses by 31. But, by 36, I had learned how to build a successful business, and now that I have those skills, I could lose everything tomorrow and I'm confident I could rebuild from the ground up.

That comes with experience. Something most 25 year olds (including both you and me at 25) didn't have.

If you're not successful when your 35...or 40...or 50...that's not because you got older. That's simply because you gave up.

I am not advocating not taking risk. It is a personal decision. If someone older is willing to sacrifice more for the entrepreneurship dream he deserves my respect. Some people like to go big or go home and they are willing to sacrifice everything. There is nothing wrong with that.
I think part of the problem is that you don't have a realistic perception of what most businesses look like. Most business owners don't "sacrifice everything" to start a business. Most business owners take some time, invest some money and devote some effort to a business WITHOUT risking their entire life savings and burning all their bridges.

If you think starting a business necessarily means pushing all-in, I think that might be the problem.
 
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Reefsf

New Contributor
Feb 24, 2019
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Not sure what the post was for except to elicit comments. It's YMMV and all dependent on your own goals/drive, being in the right place and right time, resources/commitments, assets/liabilities, etc. Too many variables to base it solely on age. In silicon valley, see a lot of 40+ startup founders going to meetups, surely they still have a chance even if its miniscule like winning the lottery. Luck and circumstance play a part in success also.
 
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