Just wondering: Affiliate marketing and copywriting to get started?

[Honestfreedom]

Hey I have been tossing ideas around my head.

I have tried (and currently trying) affiliate marketing to make money to fund other ventures.

I am struggling with it and was wondering what all you good people think of this.

I am a novice wood carver and have been thinking this might be a better way to fund future ventures.

To give an idea I can carve about 1 6 inch figure in a couple hours and then another 30 minutes or so for paint and detail.

From what I have seen a 6" figure sells for about $40-60.

Cost of materials is about $5.

Is this something I should focus more on?

If not back to the drawing board (maybe something to do with copywriting or writing).

Edit: Just to be clear I am not looking for the side hustle to be a fastlane thing. Currently I have crap credit and nothing left at the end of the month (both due to divorce and child support). The side hustle is only for getting seed money.

 

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[Johnny boy]

I personally think 'copywriting', writing, and 'affiliate marketing' are awful businesses to get into.

I haven't met anyone who is making any money doing it. Not once. Especially not anyone making 10k a month or more.

99% of your trouble with the wood carving will be 1. finding people who give a fraction of a shit about buying them and 2. hiring someone else to do it because if not, you just have a job.

If you wanna make some money, do stuff that a lot of people want/need and scale it up.

 

[Cool_Llama]

I haven't met anyone who is making any money doing it. Not once. Especially not anyone making 10k a month or more.

Yup me too.

The ones who are the ones teaching courses on how to do copywriting lol

 

[Metz]

I personally think 'copywriting', writing, and 'affiliate marketing' are awful businesses to get into.

I haven't met anyone who is making any money doing it. Not once. Especially not anyone making 10k a month or more.

Yup me too.

The ones who are the ones teaching courses on how to do copywriting lol

Was strictly a copywriter, can confirm. Best I did as a copywriter was like.. max out at $60k/year and I was already overworked and couldn't figure out a way to scale further except charge more for my writing which would be a tough sell -- not because I was already charging a lot but because a lot of clients will opt to go with content mills that pay fractions of pennies per word, not really caring too much about quality.

HOWEVER, aside from teaching courses on copywriting or building a business around the discipline of copywriting (there are people who have their own sites and drive traffic to their blog posts with ad revenue and merchandise and make six figures that way), I'm having much more success having pivoted away from just copywriting to building a firm handling a company or brand's content strategy because now you're adapting copywriting to sales, lead gen, marketing, and SEO which are all much more valuable on their own, but even more so wrapped together into one service.

I know some companies that charge clients upwards of $10k/month for a handful of articles placed on specific publications (a mix between content writing, SEO, and advertisement) as the bare minimum of what they do. So there are ways to make money in this field, just you're gonna have to go beyond "imma write copy" if you want to truly scale.

 

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[Honestfreedom]

Was strictly a copywriter, can confirm. Best I did as a copywriter was like.. max out at $60k/year and I was already overworked and couldn't figure out a way to scale further except charge more for my writing which would be a tough sell -- not because I was already charging a lot but because a lot of clients will opt to go with content mills that pay fractions of pennies per word, not really caring too much about quality.

HOWEVER, aside from teaching courses on copywriting or building a business around the discipline of copywriting (there are people who have their own sites and drive traffic to their blog posts with ad revenue and merchandise and make six figures that way), I'm having much more success having pivoted away from just copywriting to building a firm handling a company or brand's content strategy because now you're adapting copywriting to sales, lead gen, marketing, and SEO which are all much more valuable on their own, but even more so wrapped together into one service.

I know some companies that charge clients upwards of $10k/month for a handful of articles placed on specific publications (a mix between content writing, SEO, and advertisement) as the bare minimum of what they do. So there are ways to make money in this field, just you're gonna have to go beyond "imma write copy" if you want to truly scale.

Hey was thinking that copywriting was just a start. Currently learning HTML and Javascript. So, figure long term I could offer a package like custom site with copy for lead gen, etc.

 

[Metz]

Hey was thinking that copywriting was just a start. Currently learning HTML and Javascript. So, figure long term I could offer a package like custom site with copy for lead gen, etc.

Good, good. That'll be a good way to augment yourself and build something cool.

 

[Black_Dragon43]

I personally think 'copywriting', writing, and 'affiliate marketing' are awful businesses to get into.

That is because it’s actually a very competitive field. But there are people making over $10K/mo easily - it’s called royalties. Write a great promotion that sells millions, you wrote yourself a nice big, fat check. But you can make $30-40K/mo out of 3-4 promos that you’re running that are doing well.

Also people approach this niche wrong. The thing with copywriting is you have to work for the right clients, if you want to make big money. If you work for the wrong clients, forget it. So identifying the right clients is very important.

And affiliate marketing isn’t much different. To be successful, you need to go after the right markets with a strong offer. You can’t sell “anything” profitably, regardless of how good you are.

Remember Halbert back in the day… what did he say. It’s all in the list. The people you’re going after.

Most people go into copywriting thinking this is an easy business. It’s not. It takes a lot of brains and a lot of skill, a lot more than you’d even imagine when you’re first starting out.

 

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[Kung Fu Steve]

I've made money copywriting.

It only took a decade or so to get good enough at it to do that.

An invaluable skill for my current business ventures.

You, too, can become wildly successful at copywriting if you read a hundred books on copywriting, practice it every day in multiple industries, and learn to master the skill instead of dabble in it! ... in just 10 short years

On a serious note:

If your plan is to get into a different business what's all this nonsense of "starting a business so that I can start another business" ? How about you just do what you want to do?

 

[peterb0yd]

I've made money copywriting.

It only took a decade or so to get good enough at it to do that.

An invaluable skill for my current business ventures.

You, too, can become wildly successful at copywriting if you read a hundred books on copywriting, practice it every day in multiple industries, and learn to master the skill instead of dabble in it! ... in just 10 short years

On a serious note:

If your plan is to get into a different business what's all this nonsense of "starting a business so that I can start another business" ? How about you just do what you want to do?

Hey Steve, thanks for sharing this. Quick question.

I've been studying copy like a fiend for my current venture... I've read a bunch of great books, I'm part of Brian Kurtz' marketing mastermind, and I even have a marketing/growth coach.

But I'm curious as to how to "get better" at copywriting.

I do a lot of it now for various marketing efforts, but I'm not sure I'm getting any better.

If I write an email to 30 people and only see 1 or 2 take action.. how can I know which part of my copy needs to improve?

I have a landing page with lots of copy on it... how do I know which part is poor, or confusing, or good?

Aside from spending several G's to hire a real pro to look over my content, how would you recommend getting better?

I am willing to put in the time.

 

[Honestfreedom]

That is because it’s actually a very competitive field. But there are people making over $10K/mo easily - it’s called royalties. Write a great promotion that sells millions, you wrote yourself a nice big, fat check. But you can make $30-40K/mo out of 3-4 promos that you’re running that are doing well.

Also people approach this niche wrong. The thing with copywriting is you have to work for the right clients, if you want to make big money. If you work for the wrong clients, forget it. So identifying the right clients is very important.

And affiliate marketing isn’t much different. To be successful, you need to go after the right markets with a strong offer. You can’t sell “anything” profitably, regardless of how good you are.

Remember Halbert back in the day… what did he say. It’s all in the list. The people you’re going after.

Most people go into copywriting thinking this is an easy business. It’s not. It takes a lot of brains and a lot of skill, a lot more than you’d even imagine when you’re first starting out.

Yeah copywriting is definitely not easy to learn and a lifetime to master. I have taken 2 courses to learn copywriting and 1 course to learn email copywriting. My only struggle was getting clients. That is what I am trying to learn now.

 

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[Honestfreedom]

I've made money copywriting.

It only took a decade or so to get good enough at it to do that.

An invaluable skill for my current business ventures.

You, too, can become wildly successful at copywriting if you read a hundred books on copywriting, practice it every day in multiple industries, and learn to master the skill instead of dabble in it! ... in just 10 short years

On a serious note:

If your plan is to get into a different business what's all this nonsense of "starting a business so that I can start another business" ? How about you just do what you want to do?

That last line I was thinking a lot about since I posted this. I am hating what I am doing to try and get clients in affiliate marketing. That is why today I took MJ's advice and made a 1/5/10 plan and its foundation is going to be a marketing company that offers services that will help a company with anything related to marketing from websites to copywriting. There might be things I need to learn along the way but I won't know what those are until I need them

 

[Honestfreedom]

Hey Steve, thanks for sharing this. Quick question.

I've been studying copy like a fiend for my current venture... I've read a bunch of great books, I'm part of Brian Kurtz' marketing mastermind, and I even have a marketing/growth coach.

But I'm curious as to how to "get better" at copywriting.

I do a lot of it now for various marketing efforts, but I'm not sure I'm getting any better.

If I write an email to 30 people and only see 1 or 2 take action.. how can I know which part of my copy needs to improve?

I have a landing page with lots of copy on it... how do I know which part is poor, or confusing, or good?

Aside from spending several G's to hire a real pro to look over my content, how would you recommend getting better?

I am willing to put in the time.

I know I am not the one this is directed at but I would say split test.
Change one part and run traffic and see if the results are better or worse.
Continue until you get better results.
I am curious to hear what others that are further in the journey would say about how to troubleshoot.

As for getting better at copywriting. I pick an ad from Swipe-Worthy » Swipe File Archive » Marketing & Copywriting Examples and hand copy it all.
It not only teaches me the structure and wording that has worked in the past but also develops muscle memory.
Hope this helps!

 

[MJ DeMarco]

That is because it’s actually a very competitive field. But there are people making over $10K/mo easily - it’s called royalties. Write a great promotion that sells millions, you wrote yourself a nice big, fat check. But you can make $30-40K/mo out of 3-4 promos that you’re running that are doing well.

Yup, work for FREE, and only take a cut of the sales or profits. If you fail in the offer, you fail to earn the dollars. That's how one can scale copywriting, but you have to be good and 2, make sure your partner is competent for execution with a good budget.

 

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[Kevin88660]

Hey I have been tossing ideas around my head.

I have tried (and currently trying) affiliate marketing to make money to fund other ventures.

I am struggling with it and was wondering what all you good people think of this.

I am a novice wood carver and have been thinking this might be a better way to fund future ventures.

To give an idea I can carve about 1 6 inch figure in a couple hours and then another 30 minutes or so for paint and detail.

From what I have seen a 6" figure sells for about $40-60.

Cost of materials is about $5.

Is this something I should focus more on?

If not back to the drawing board (maybe something to do with copywriting or writing).

Edit: Just to be clear I am not looking for the side hustle to be a fastlane thing. Currently I have crap credit and nothing left at the end of the month (both due to divorce and child support). The side hustle is only for getting seed money.

I think the best business opportunity are still demand driven, not driven by your own interest/existing skill set. I am not saying your interest are not important, but they are best used when serving a hot need.

I think to carry on with copy writing you have to identify with business/sectors sales that copy writing will make a big difference, and the owners of such business will know. Just like traditional sales in real estates and insurance still pay heavy commission to flesh and blood humans pushing their products because they do know agents make a big difference and online sales make less than 3-5% despite years of trying.

Find what people are willing to pay for and serve a "must have" need. People will always pay for a mediocre product to serve a dire/ hot need than to pay for a good product that is not a burning need. Being good in something can be "overrated". Pick your industry and sector wisely. I definitely do not think highly of making artwork as a good choice.

If you do not have any idea just go research in the five timeless perma-hot sectors: make money, girls, healthcare/supplement/funeral, beauty/skincare, education for kids. Then see if any of them could match your existing interest/skillset.

 

[Kevin88660]

Yeah copywriting is definitely not easy to learn and a lifetime to learn. I have taken 2 courses to learn copywriting and 1 course to learn email copywriting. My only struggle was getting clients. That is what I am trying to learn now.

Correct me if I am wrong but most rejection are perhaps coming from "do not believe that better copywriting will drive sales" instead of not believing in your skill.

 

[Black_Dragon43]

That's how one can scale copywriting, but you have to be good and 2, make sure your partner is competent for execution with a good budget.

That's great advice MJ. I'll add a third...

Make sure you get paid. The thing that happens most often in this industry is that terms are all ok until the great money starts coming in, then... not so much. So always have contracts, AND sometimes even that isn't enough, depending on where your client is from. So make sure to seek legal advice as needed.

I've heard from many copywriters who didn't get paid for work they've done, and it also happened to my agency. It's a really big risk, and very often you have to be willing to pursue your clients and get the money if you have to. But the foundation of that is having a strong contract that's looked over and approved by a competent lawyer.

 

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[Kung Fu Steve]

Hey Steve, thanks for sharing this. Quick question.

I've been studying copy like a fiend for my current venture... I've read a bunch of great books, I'm part of Brian Kurtz' marketing mastermind, and I even have a marketing/growth coach.

But I'm curious as to how to "get better" at copywriting.

I do a lot of it now for various marketing efforts, but I'm not sure I'm getting any better.

If I write an email to 30 people and only see 1 or 2 take action.. how can I know which part of my copy needs to improve?

I have a landing page with lots of copy on it... how do I know which part is poor, or confusing, or good?

Aside from spending several G's to hire a real pro to look over my content, how would you recommend getting better?

I am willing to put in the time.

I don't want to hijack the thread too much here but I can share a thought or two:

1. I reference a lot of old books. They're sitting behind me on the shelf. Breakthrough Advertising. Ogilvy on Advertising. How to Write Sales Letters That Sell. And I have some treasures -- some old books from the 1930's on copywriting that are just pure gold. They're long out of print, cost me thousands... and they're locked away in storage somewhere

2. I have a coach. I've paid a particular coach thousands a month since 2008 to learn marketing at his level. While he doesn't read all my stuff and give me tips, I do get to hear him every 2-3 weeks about what he's writing, why he's writing it that way, and it really helps keep me centered. Copy is a formula, after all. There's just certain things that HAVE to go in a sales pitch. If you ignore those things, you're gonna have a bad time. (Risk reversal, guarantees, headlines, bullet points, etc.)

3. The copy doesn't matter as much as the follow-up. Every year Ogilvy and Mathers puts out an extensive report. Recent studies pretty definitively showed that from the day someone starts thinking about a product or service, it takes (on average) 21 days before they make a purchase. During those 21 days apparently it takes 37 impressions to get someone to choose YOUR product.

So there's something key... it's not necessarily about selling as hard as you possibly can in the moment otherwise you're going to lose them... it's more about getting the permission to follow up with them, use retargeting ads, following them around and bothering them until they buy. No one is ever upset about an ad for something they actually want.

Instead of trying to get your conversion rate from 2% to 3%, it's easier to get your follow-up from 0% to 50%. s

4. Assembly Line Copy

This is what my coach teaches me. I have templates and templates of stuff that I use over and over again. Simple phrases like "here's how to YAY without BOO" for headlines. Bullet points that reference a feature, advantage, and benefit. And the overall structure of the letter (or sales video). I do a lot of pitching via video these days so that's become more important than writing ... except I almost always write down my notes before I give a presentation and then have like 6-7 reminders "headline. opening. why to listen to me. here's what I've got. here's what it's going to do for them. here's why it's guaranteed...."

Hopefully that helps.

 

[peterb0yd]

I don't want to hijack the thread too much here but I can share a thought or two:

1. I reference a lot of old books. They're sitting behind me on the shelf. Breakthrough Advertising. Ogilvy on Advertising. How to Write Sales Letters That Sell. And I have some treasures -- some old books from the 1930's on copywriting that are just pure gold. They're long out of print, cost me thousands... and they're locked away in storage somewhere

2. I have a coach. I've paid a particular coach thousands a month since 2008 to learn marketing at his level. While he doesn't read all my stuff and give me tips, I do get to hear him every 2-3 weeks about what he's writing, why he's writing it that way, and it really helps keep me centered. Copy is a formula, after all. There's just certain things that HAVE to go in a sales pitch. If you ignore those things, you're gonna have a bad time. (Risk reversal, guarantees, headlines, bullet points, etc.)

3. The copy doesn't matter as much as the follow-up. Every year Ogilvy and Mathers puts out an extensive report. Recent studies pretty definitively showed that from the day someone starts thinking about a product or service, it takes (on average) 21 days before they make a purchase. During those 21 days apparently it takes 37 impressions to get someone to choose YOUR product.

So there's something key... it's not necessarily about selling as hard as you possibly can in the moment otherwise you're going to lose them... it's more about getting the permission to follow up with them, use retargeting ads, following them around and bothering them until they buy. No one is ever upset about an ad for something they actually want.

Instead of trying to get your conversion rate from 2% to 3%, it's easier to get your follow-up from 0% to 50%. s

4. Assembly Line Copy

This is what my coach teaches me. I have templates and templates of stuff that I use over and over again. Simple phrases like "here's how to YAY without BOO" for headlines. Bullet points that reference a feature, advantage, and benefit. And the overall structure of the letter (or sales video). I do a lot of pitching via video these days so that's become more important than writing ... except I almost always write down my notes before I give a presentation and then have like 6-7 reminders "headline. opening. why to listen to me. here's what I've got. here's what it's going to do for them. here's why it's guaranteed...."

Hopefully that helps.

Really solid, thanks for this.

 

[Honestfreedom]

Correct me if I am wrong but most rejection are perhaps coming from "do not believe that better copywriting will drive sales" instead of not believing in your skill

Truthfully when I was finished the course. I did not have the a)the right mindset (add value) b)any training in marketing my services so I had no idea how to get clients. Instead of learning how to market I quit and then started trying affiliate marketing.

 

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[Honestfreedom]

So, I want to throw something out there and see what people think.
I purchased a course and mentoring on High Ticket Marketing (it is already paid in full).
I bought this before reading either Fastlane or Unscripted .
I am wondering if I should continue trying to learn and apply what I am learning and try and recoup the cost or
if I should just focus on building a marketing business with emphasis on web design and copy.
Any insight is greatly appreciated

 

[Awaken Study]

So, I want to throw something out there and see what people think.
I purchased a course and mentoring on High Ticket Marketing (it is already paid in full).
I bought this before reading either Fastlane or Unscripted .
I am wondering if I should continue trying to learn and apply what I am learning and try and recoup the cost or
if I should just focus on building a marketing business with emphasis on web design and copy.
Any insight is greatly appreciated

Might as well learn what you can. Every business requires marketing so the skill is transferrable.

 

[Gio9]

You can make big money with copy if you pick the right type of copy to master and work with the right clients.

And as far as scale, you can create leverage by starting an agency and becoming a copy chief (hiring junior trained writers and overseeing their copy before delivering it to clients.

Or simply closing deals with clients and having a copy chief you trust.

Or by being paid as a partner with the client instead of as a hired gun. But only when you have a track record and have proven to be able to deliver results. And yes, this means having clear contracts in place to protect yourself.

A few programs that have helped me get on the right track as far as freelance copy:

Copy Chief - Escape Velocity
Chris Orzechowski - Email Copy Academy (Owns an email marketing agency. Was a freelance copywriter before.)
Derek Johansson - Copyhour
Abbey Woodcock & Chris Orzechowski - Get Clients Masterclass

Yes, they're paid programs but they're about teaching you the skills to be a pro and avoid the mistakes that many freelancers make when they start out.

I think this is one of the most valuable skills to have in general. Great copy can be used in any business, otherwise, sales can suffer.

 

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