Is todays education wrong??

[AgainstAllOdds]

Here's an interesting fact: The average high school student is smarter than the average high school teacher. McKinsey did a study to track the percentile range that teachers scored when they were in high school, and the average teacher was 46th percentile. Couple that with age-related intellectual degradation, and you have the intelligence of the average high school teacher being lower than the average high school student.

So you have a school system with inept "mentors", and they're teaching subjects like "poetry". The result you get is a F*cked system.

Think about that. Our school system considers poetry taught by below average individuals more important than financial literacy.

I'll end my rant here, but will say -- I'm all for sites like http://khanacademy.org and charter schools. The best teacher should be able to teach. The worst teachers should be purged.

 

[GuestUser450]

How much quicker, if any, do you think you would be were you are today if you were taught more relevant subjects in school?

Not at all. The failure of school isn't that it teaches the wrong things but that it doesn't teach kids how to learn on their own.

My daughter is "homeschooled". We're not religious, she has no behavioral problems and we live in a nice area with highly rated schools.

We chose to do it because it's infinitely better. I regret not doing it sooner.

 

[MJ DeMarco]

DISCLAIMER: I DIDN'T READ THE PRIOR 4 PAGES so if it has already been stated, I apologize.

IMO, today's schooling system (at least in the USA) now teaches you to be a good slave; obedient, unquestioning, and to abide by conformity. As such, you're no threat to the system.

The good news is that this presents an opportunity for entrepreneurs who want to create alternatives to the slave/indoctrination system.

 

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[eliquid]

I feel the school system is so bad, that 2 of my children are home schooled and have been that way for 2+ years now.

We left one ( our 3rd child ) in public school because he was a junior in High School and he wanted to be with his "friends".

The 2 we home school are both in "middle school" so to speak and are getting 20x better education than the one we left in public school.

You can bet some of the classes I am going to sneak in are about finance, business, and real life skills.

 

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[Runum]

By all the complaints I would deduce that there is a need here somewhere that needs to be fixed. I applaud @JScott and others that I know are trying to make a difference and fix it.

It's interesting to read the complaints, they all see to be biased due to one's school performance, perceived deficiency, social challenges, emotional needs, etc.

My position on education is that a sperm and an egg got together somehow and produced a living human being. It is the parents' responsibility to raise and educate that offspring. The parents have a lot of choice in this matter, they can home-school, they can hire someone to partner with them, that could be public, private, charter schools, or a private tutor. However, in our land of freedoms parents also can neglect their child's needs and dump their raising on the state.

If you have never spent time as an adult in a public school, you should. If you have never cared for pre-K kids from all types of backgrounds you should give it a try.

We are not all born with the same opportunities and knowledge. Not all parents are engaged or mature enough to be parents. Not all teachers should be teachers. Not all students accept the help that is provided.

Like it or not, the local school system is a direct reflection of the community it serves. If the community is rough, aggressive, and non supportive the students bring the attitude with them and the school has to respond. It is not productive for anyone. If the community is peaceful and wanting to improve, the students bring that attitude with them and the school responds.

Schools do have community improvement initiatives in place. However, apathy and aggression seem to be the predominant feeling in many communities that I see right now.

My suggestion is to get off the internet and get engaged with your community. Reflect on how the children are being taught. Reflect on how students, parents, and teachers act. Are there fights in the streets and every pee wee football game? Are parents outside the school building physically fighting over a parking space? Are parents driving through the paved playground oblivious to the students playing ball on the playground? Or, are people making an effort to get along and solve problems?

Federal education will not improve. It's too big. Local education can improve but it takes school and community leaders working together for that to happen.

Volunteer to be a dad or mom on campus. Put your time where your bitching is. Jump in and try to find solutions. Bitching on an internet forum doesn't solve anything.

Good luck to all.

 

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[Runum]

Re: the 4 year old child lost cause.

I am sure the statement was made in the context of a teacher trying to change a child's life in an 8 hour day while trying to work with other children at the same time. I am also sure that those lower performing students would be the outliers as suggested.

However, the outliers do count and they do matter.

We have had children come to preK that cannot speak, they may urinate or defecate wherever or whenever they want. Their impulse control is non existent as are their social skills. They only eat with their hands and usually sitting on the floor. They may have been exposed to drugs, shootings, murder, abuse, and porn for all of their years. There may be 2-3 of these students in a class of 10-15.

We also have the students that excel in everything. They are well adjusted and have great manners. They adapt to new situations well. There may be 1-2 of these in the same class room.

Edit: I should have also included students with other needs such as autism, down syndrome, ESL, ODD, SPED, etc will also be included in a typical classroom.

The rest of the students are somewhere in between.

Given limited resources, staff, money, and time, who do you think gets the most attention? The lower performing students of course!

I also do not think they are a lost cause, but, it will take far more resources than one teacher, 8 hours a day, 180 days a year, can deliver. That one preK teacher will try but will probably not be successful in changing that child's life. That child needs more time, more training, and more resources from others. Keep in mind that the lower performing student returns to their home environment each evening and all summer 24/7 to fall back into the old habits.

Those outliers consume a LOT of resources.

 

[eliquid]

I would not change it for anything, for the foreseeable future.

It really is awesome, isn't it?

I'll give you an example. My kids spent basically close to 7 hours at school doing "work". Include the mandatory "homework" most of them have to bring home daily/weekly and that could stretch to close to 8 hours a day of that "work".

We start homeschooling and magically they get their work done ( and retained at a better level ) in 2-3 hours a day. Also, when I take a trip or vacation I can take them with me without fear of asking permissions and explaining why the kids were absent from school for a week or 2, plus they take their work with them and get it done while on vacation/trips since it only takes 2 hours a day or so and they aren't "behind" and have to "make up" work that would present itself in a normal public school environment.

Also, they can work on any subject they like within the curriculum when they choose. We can even "make up" SOME of our own too at times. They can revisit subjects. It's ultimate flexibility. We tend to not make up our own, but if I wanted to teach them entrepreneurship with Fastlane principles, I certainly can and they would get credit for it.

The credits are real credits, not some fake diploma mill shit. Many of the homeschooled kids we know get into colleges and universities just fine and they are big name, not some small private no-name schools. We know one specifically that recently got into Harvard.

It's just ultimate flexibility.

Example:
I have one child that just loves a certain subject. Now I am not saying this is the correct way to do things, but they basically devoured the info in that subject book in a few days and that was all they did for those days. It was crazy. Now they spend a few hours a day on the other topics.

My kids hate math. I did too. They had a very hard time with 5th grade math. They are now in the 6th grade though. We made them retake 5th grade math all over again for the first 3 months of last semester so they could really "get it". Now we are making them do 6th grade math currently ( normally they would have done just 6th grade math this last 3 months and now the next 3 going forward ). We are "cramming" it in, but the magic is they really really "get it" now and are blowing through 6th grade math quite quickly even though we are doing it in a crammed fashion. They will finish right on time like normal, like nothing ever happened.

This is just stuff you couldn't really do in public schools.

Plus, I get to somewhat dictate what they do and don't learn and in what style.

We don't waste time on "normally" mandatory P.E. classes, music classes, 2nd languages and incorrect "facts" in subjects like history. My kids get enough P.E., music, and 2nd language stuff in their own SPARE time that would have been "after school" hours and we get to teach them facts in their subjects that are real and not incorrect or slanted to one view of things.

 

[juan917]

Imo a nightmare beyond repair. Am not intending on putting my children through it

 

[ZCP]

So what is everyone doing about it?!

We go out multiple times a year to introduce engineering and technology careers to middle school kids. We start with money and budgets, then end with cool things you can do to earn a living.

Also spend a lot of time coaching sports and in scouts working on real world experience for the kids.

What can you do to help?

 

[devine]

Unlike popular belief, the problem is never with parents.
It doesn't matter who raises a kid and how they do it, because the moment he/she steps into kindergarten/school they are in a new realm with its own rules, conditions and authorities.

The system is good at what it does. It's good at raising people who are good at sitting in front of a desk and kicking their shit back and forth until the clock strikes. In schools there is no "math, biology, english, etc', each class teaches the same thing that has nothing to do with class title itself. This is exactly what our governments need.

Whole educational system can be fixed in no time, worldwide. The problem is - nobody in this system wants to fix it, and those who want and have right skill sets are way outside of educational system.

 

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[mayana]

We homeschool, too. I've got three kids in homeschool right now, and it's great. It's freaking amazing as far as a schedule goes. Before, we had one kid in public school, one kid in a charter school, and another kid in a magnet school. So we were driving around all morning, and spending like 2 hours in the afternoon driving and waiting in car lines. Ridiculous. Plus, fighting with the teenage boy about homework and whatever.

Now, it's super relaxed all day. The oldest ones know exactly what they are supposed to do, and they do it because I let them pick their subjects. So my 9th grader got tired of environmental science and just wants to do chemistry all day. Fine with me! Plus, the oldest ones both have their own "small business". They both are learning about e-commerce and freelancing. It's amazing to watch them be so independent, making decisions and dealing with customers on their own.

I would not change it for anything, for the foreseeable future.

 

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[TonyStark]

I think we should teach more vocational subjects. I think experience is important when learning, so the sooner kids can start to put their knowledge into action, the better.

 

[mayana]

Some kids are lost causes at the age of 4

I'm sorry, but I take huge issue with this statement. I would say that only a minute percentage of four year olds are "lost causes". Even a four year old with a terrible home life can grow up to be a brilliantly productive member of society. I think that it is this statement that is what is wrong with the way that we think about children in this country.

We don't put a priority on REAL education in our country. People would rather the school systems spend money on developing good sports programs, instead of hiring better teachers/new books/other educational things. Parents are stuck in front of the TV all night and weekend. Kids aren't taught by anyone that learning is more important than video games.

We have a gigantic problem with priorities and how we assign value as a culture.

 

[PoGOOD]

I finished my high school at a time when all Polish men were supposed to go to the army for 24 and later 18 months at least. The only way out of this duty was to go to university. After graduation you "only" had to go to the army for 6 months.

As somewhere near the half of my Highschool I realised I don't learn much, my decision was simple - I go to the university only to avoid losing years of my life in the army.

I was attending the university during the weekends and worked my arse off every week. Within 4 years of exceptionally hard and diligent work I learned so much and became so valuable to my bosses they promoted me to the position of marketing manager f the Puma sport goods brand for Poland.

At that time I was still a student of management and marketing studies. I quit this school after a truly hot "discussion" with my marketing professor that was teaching us so much bullshit and pure theory that I couldn't stand it any longer.

It was nearly 20 years ago, but I never stopped learning. I read books, paid my own tickets to various trainings and courses, attended events and bought online courses. Plus I practiced like crazy. Whatever I read - I put into practice ASAP.

Do I regret dropping-out of university?

Not at all!

It was - by far- the best decision I made in my life.

I don't press my kids when it comes to educational choices. I focus only on their talents, abilities and dreams. My goal is to help them choose wisely - not choose the path preselected by our crazy society...


Wysłane z iPhone za pomocą Tapatalk Pro

 

[Pilot35]

 

[VDon]

My girlfriend is a kindergarten teacher and it is more than obvious, that education already failed BEFORE kids are entering the school system.

What can be observed is, that every year more and more underdeveloped kids enter kindergarten. Some kids are lost causes at the age of 4, just because the parents are idiots or the kids come from broken homes. Nobody can fix that and this will be a huge problem in like 10-20 years, when those people enter the labour market and nobody can use them.

 

[HoneyBadger]

The general notion of going to school/college is to get a job. Notice I said "get" and not "make a job" or "make jobs". Therefore the education system is operating under those beliefs and is set up currently to generate "employees". Certainly if you view that system from an entrepreneurially minded perspective you are going to say it is broken. However it is operating how society has instructed it to mixed with general government inefficiencies.

 

[Guest34764]

Uh... Thanks dad...

LOL this brightened up my day.

 

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[Runum]

You are not taught financial literacy in US schools. I tried to go out of my way to learn about economics in school, but all the classes like financial math and entrepreneurship (all electives btw, you could easily go through school learning nothing about taxes, supply and demand or the job market) were either on a crappy computer program or taught by a football coach and you learned nothing.

Also agree that it KILLS creativity. I only recently realized it but I literally have probably 1% of the creativity I had when i went into public school in the second grade. Throughout school, you are penalized for doing anything more than 1 or 2 ways, or write in any other format besides the one the teacher prefers.

The biggest thing that got to me in school though, was that the teachers can pretty much say or do whatever they want to you as long as they don't hit you or cuss at you. And you are pressured into believing it's okay

You seemed aware of what you wanted to learn. What stopped you from learning what you desired? No one stood in your way. You had multiple hours after school, the internet probably at school and at home, libraries, newspapers, etc. If you truly want to learn something why wait or blame others?

Edit: The thing is most people generalize and I understand. I agree the education system is a machine that is out of control, broken. It is sustained by federal and state politics and big business(Pearson). Generally everyone doesn't like it.

I can generalize too. I have managed an alternative high school class full of big talking students.

It seems to be that time of life. Some of the students are scared of their future, the unknowns. Those students rarely make a noise.

There are other students, mostly guys, that are full of themselves. They are going to be the next millionaire by 21. They are going to sign the major NFL contract at 18. They are going to get rich by breathing, all they need is an idea. They make a lot of noise wherever they go. All about attention.

I sat with those guys for 6 months with my own grand ideas of giving them a boost, a kick start. I showed them how to set up web sites. I demonstrated web research. I showed them REI. I supported any ideas they had. I spent my own resources backing them up.

100% of those guys quit. They were full of hot air. All talk. Someone called them on their BS and they couldn't ride it out. Mainly, because it wasn't instantaneous enough for them. I see them around town now, years later, working at Burger King and Walmart, still talking their shit.

Sometimes similar minded big talkers wind up here and still talk their shit. They may get some help and they STILL don't get anything done.

My challenge to you, quit looking at other people for your excuses. If you know where you want to be and what you want to learn then do it. Look at the face in the mirror and man up. Set the world on fire and show us all how it's done. We would love to cheer you on.

 

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[Runum]

I kind of feel like alot of the stuff wrong with high school was trickle down from the monopoly the college level has on being "prestigious" and "well paid" and "successful" + the factor of funding

I saw alot of people get treated like worthless trash because they weren't going to college, or were going to trade school

Nowadays HS is more like "college prep" with little to no branching curriculum paths for other choices

I do agree with you about HS prepping students for college. They do put pressure on the students to go to college. The schools are graded on college prep.

Also agree with you there is wasted time, from students and schools, both.

 

[Vigilante]

I do agree with you about HS prepping students from college. They do put pressure on the students to go to college. The schools are graded on college prep.

Also agree with you there is wasted time, from students and schools, both.

My kids high school counselors were not counselors. They were college admittance advisors. They tracked and published statistics of how many kids from that class were going on to college, where they were going, etc...

There were no other options. Their whole job was college admittance. The schools were measured based on how many kids from that graduating class went on to college.

Community college was an option. I think vocational schools were also tracked. However, we know that nationally :

• 50% of kids never attend their college freshman orientation (i.e. half of high school kids don't go to college) and

even more damning is that

• 50% of kids that start college NEVER FINISH COLLEGE

 

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[Runum]

My kids high school counselors were not counselors. They were college admittance advisors. They tracked and published statistics of how many kids from that class were going on to college, where they were going, etc...

There were no other options. Their whole job was college admittance. The schools were measured based on how many kids from that graduating class went on to college.

Community college was an option. I think vocational schools were also tracked. However, we know that nationally :

• 50% of kids never attend their college freshman orientation (i.e. half of high school kids don't go to college) and

even more damning is that

• 50% of kids that start college NEVER FINISH COLLEGE

Our experience with HS counselors was the same. They weren't very good when I was in HS but now their job description has changed, at least in my state. The counselors are responsible for campus administration and coordination of the mandated standardized tests. They go to a lot of training for that, off campus. They really don't have time to be a counselor any more.

My kid's HS experience was eye opening but we all survived.

 

[eliquid]

My wife and I are considering this, although we learned to keep our mouth shut about it, because it turns out that wanting to educate your own child is very offensive to some people.

Mind if I ask what curriculum you're using @eliquid?


@Pilot35 if you can tell me all about pythagorean theorems, you clearly didn't go to an American high school

Yes, once you do it all the school teachers will ask you what went wrong and why with a kind of attitude sometimes.

Currently we use the Alpha Omega program. We did the 100% online version last year and switched to the "books and paper" ( not sure thats the name, but its "offline" version ) this year.

My kids have enjoyed the offline version 10000x more. Its the same education, but they just like having the books more.

I think we pay $500 each year or so, but that's because we order the package for 3 kids. Will be cheaper if you have less kids.

 

[luniac]

I just think education is too much filler and not enough substance. It's a poor value proposition.

 

[G-Man]

I'm definitely not a hater of public or private schooling. If it is working for people, that's great. If we lived in a place where the schools are better, I might (?) be making different choices. So I support everyone in how they decide to education their children.

The biggest concern here for my wife and I was that we know they'll be imparted with a worldview that is not empowering for entering real life. When outside of school do you ever sit a room with 30 people your own age taking instructions from an authority figure at the front? And that's before you even get into how dismally bad they are at teaching basics.

I went to schools so bad that I learned to read and basic math from my mother at the kitchen table. She taught me in 30 mins a day what 7 hrs at school couldn't.

All school does is teach otherwise capable children to get busy looking busy, which might be a great preparation for the stable 9-5 world of yesteryear, but it'll get them eaten in 2017.

 

[JokerCrazyBeatz]

I didn't learn anything from school but the basics , I never liked school tho ever , I couldn't even tell u 10% of what I "learned"'in school

 

[GuestUser450]

Hmmm it all seems to be heading backwards...

Quite the opposite. The options are limitless. We can cherry-pick curricula from what we deem best whether it's Stanford, MIT or even YouTube. No politics, agendas, forced friendships, lazy educators, etc.

 

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[socaldude]

Horrible.

It does nothing to teach kids how to think and create new things with their minds.

Just memorization.

It only instills wrong beliefs into their minds about themselves, learning and "reality" that their teachers vehemently believe as well.

If you get straight A's or a 4.0 GPA you are only accelerating in a system and an environment that was created by people who are just as clueless as everyone else. Its a fantasy world quite literally. This is a belief that is very difficult to challenge because so many people believe it and will defend it.

If a child was "always" a "C" student in math then when he gets older he will feel extreme anxiety and low self-esteem if he even dares to open up a math subject book when he gets older and out of school. Because of course he "sucks" at math according to his shitty school system.

We all have a self-image that was created by this false environment called "school" and often times this is exactly what holds us back when we try to learn something all on our own when we grow up. All thanks to a false and ineffective system that everyone defends and praises.

http://www.businessinsider.com/elon-musk-creates-a-grade-school-2015-5

 

[amp0193]

I've spent about two years and about $200K of my own cash (with a partner) building a product -- and a business -- aimed at teaching kids computer engineering (programming and electronics).

I also spend a lot of time helping schools (middle, high and college) design courses to teach kids the basics of engineering and how consumer devices are designed.

Improving education has always been an interest of mine, as I firmly believe that the success of an economy is directly correlated to the innovation created in that economy. My country has been falling behind in both education and innovation in recent years...a small number of people do the majority of the innovation in the US. I'd love to help change that...

Love it, I think you've touched on a big need here with your business. Do you have anything sold yet and implemented in schools?

I am an ex middle school teacher, and couldn't believe they weren't teaching computer engineering. All of the elective courses were baloney, except for music, which I taught. I think kids would be very interested and capable in doing this. To code is to create, and knowing that skill will open doors for anyone.

 

[pickeringmt]

I've thought about this as well, and I think this country would be about a million times better off if our public schools taught kids nothing more than how to take good care of themselves physically, mentally, socially, and economically. Imagine if teachers spent about 7 hours a day explaining how to take care of yourself and your homework was to satisfy that material. You would pursue your actual passions on your own, like literature, art, science, entrepreneurship, etc; and you would learn how to build a life that works around what you actually want it to be.