Is todays education wrong??

[devine]

There seems to be hint in this thread that an area schools are failing is by not teaching programming. Even if they wanted to push it out on a nation-wide initiative where would they find all the teachers? Programmers right now have plenty of employment opportunities that pay far more than a teaching salary ever will.

I began learning programming on my own when I was around 11 years old but by the time I got to high school my school actually had a couple programming courses so I took them anyways. They were filled to the brim with kids who just picked the class so they could play on the computers. The teacher who actually seemed to at least understand basic programming taught everything in EXTREMELY slow bits because he had to match the flow of the class. It took a whole year to teach the class what they needed to make a VERY basic text based calculator as their end of term project. That is something you could learn in an evening sitting down with a book/some online tutorials even if it is your first time coding.

I don't know if I am fully expressing what I am trying to but I am not as optimistic as others on programming courses for kids after watching/hearing the whining day after day about how 'hard' it was, the end of week ritual of students copying source code from the few who did it, and the overall snail pace of the course compared to any other STEM course I took (we did two lessons a day in my math courses for comparison).

There is a certain level of persistance/grinding that comes with learning software which I think could be hard for teachers and the current way curriculum is set up in schools to be able to handle.

Additional subjects have no impact on pupil's future efficiency and development of right qualities. The idea of "better subjects" is a based on hope that learning more relevant and usable information wll increase productivity and lead a person to success.
This is dead wrong, because fundamental subjects produce students with multi-faceted set of skills and better orientation in any field.

Why doesn't it work? Because those fundamental subjects are taught in isolation from spheres they are applied within.
This is why "Will I ever use it" and "I never needed any of that in my whole life" are the most common phrases about education. People just have no clue how it's appliable in real world, while in reality fundamental subjects are appliable everywhere. People are just taught improper things in context of these subjects.

Regarding programming and other non-fundamental subjects being taught at schools - this is a kind of system we will see in countries like China, because this is exactly what produces a convenient unit for a mechanism like what their country primarily is. China doesn't focus on innovations, they don't need people to think, they need them to serve, and current trends demand more single-purpose specialists. US partially goes the same way, which is highly visible by their educational process.

 

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[Jake]

Love it, I think you've touched on a big need here with your business. Do you have anything sold yet and implemented in schools?

I am an ex middle school teacher, and couldn't believe they weren't teaching computer engineering. All of the elective courses were baloney, except for music, which I taught. I think kids would be very interested and capable in doing this. To code is to create, and knowing that skill will open doors for anyone.

My Daughter's new school seems on top of it.

"Our focus with our younger students is technology exposure, to give them the foundational skills necessary to make best use of technology in later years, and to introduce them to the basic concepts of programming. Our kindergarten lab doubles as a technology exploration lab with desktop computers, iPads, games, a green screen and programmable robots. These robots allow us to introduce our younger students to basic coding concepts such as sequential logic and command functions, and these concepts give them the basic toolkit necessary to excel in a wide variety of overlapping subjects."

 

[GuestUser450]

However, the devil is in the details. Getting everyone to agree on the minimums is the problem.

And this realization is where it ended for me - a 5 year effort of pto meetings, budget override assemblies, stem clubs, etc. concluding with a defeated shrug.

The model isn't built for what it needs to do.

We can pretend that rational adults want to sit down with local school boards and teachers and hash out appropriate curricula based on real needs but it doesn't happen.

So the scope of public school will only get bigger and bloatier - it'll continue to be overcrowded, underfunded, convoluted in policy but lax in actual standards and simultaneously behind the modern tech curve while ignoring emotional iq and communication fundamentals.

Maybe it's privileged bitching but I don't think most people expect miracles from a public service; they're just frustrated with the bare minimums.

So where do we go from here? I think the future is independent learning and the products and services that facilitate it.

When folks see both the smart and the wealthy choosing homeschool over private, the stigma will fade. For teens it'll eventually become the norm; to which I think middle and high schools will eventually look and act more like coworking spaces than classrooms.

 

[lucasmello]

Coincidently, I was watching this today.

I agree with a lot with that is being said here. And I will add, it is not a US problem, or an European problem. It is a world problem. I have attended schools in Brazil, France, the US. Have tried the IB system, American system, the Brazilian, the International system and had friends in the German, French and Italian systems. IT IS A WORLD PROBLEM.

I think we wait too long for kids to decide what area they want to focus on. For example, let's take an entrepreneur which wants to go the academic route before diving into the market. He will go on to do high school with people that want VASTLY different things from him and that don't care (and probably don't need as much): financial planning, stock market, etc. THEN, he goes on to college to do Business. AGAIN, a very general degree full of people that want to be Investment Bankers, Consultants, Accountants, etc. ONLY when he has reached a master's level, will he able to FINALLY "study" entrepreneurship. I think if you show a predisposition to learn entrepreneurship, you should be able to take the route. Instead of having Chemistry in school, I could've had programming. Instead of English literature, Microeconomics. We lose so much time (years) in nonsensical stuff.

 

[ApparentHorizon]

Holy hell batman. This thread.

Asian countries have the highest education rankings:
http://www.bbc.com/news/business-32608772

They also have the highest suicide rates (especially around exam time):
http://www.worldlifeexpectancy.com/cause-of-death/suicide/by-country/

And yet...

Record number of Americans are millionaires:
http://www.cnbc.com/2016/03/07/record-number-of-millionaires-living-in-the-us.html

But...

Half of you sound like you're venting for being lied to - the other half just complaining about something that's out of your control.

You're telling me, none of you have ever learned a single thing from school that you can't apply to your biz or everyday life? Am I taking crazy pills or something...

I certainly don't think this thread implies that programming is the panacea for fixing schools... At least, I don't think that's the case.

I have a programming background from school - and programming teaches you discipline and problem solving - both essential for long term business success.

We all have a self-image that was created by this false environment called "school" and often times this is exactly what holds us back when we try to learn something all on our own when we grow up. All thanks to a false and ineffective system that everyone defends and praises.

I wrote a research paper about this in college before dropping out to start my biz: School actually has very little to do with how you view yourself. 90% of how you judge yourself and your peers comes from TV and social media. I'll post it if I come across it.

 

[farrishayes1]

Holy hell batman. This thread.

Asian countries have the highest education rankings:
http://www.bbc.com/news/business-32608772

They also have the highest suicide rates (especially around exam time):
http://www.worldlifeexpectancy.com/cause-of-death/suicide/by-country/

And yet...

Record number of Americans are millionaires:
http://www.cnbc.com/2016/03/07/record-number-of-millionaires-living-in-the-us.html

But...

Half of you sound like you're venting for being lied to - the other half just complaining about something that's out of your control.

You're telling me, none of you have ever learned a single thing from school that you can't apply to your biz or everyday life? Am I taking crazy pills or something...



I have a programming background from school - and programming teaches you discipline and problem solving - both essential for long term business success.



I wrote a research paper about this in college before dropping out to start my biz: School actually has very little to do with how you view yourself. 90% of how you judge yourself and your peers comes from TV and social media. I'll post it if I come across it.

I took 2 classes in high school that I actually use the information in my entrepreneurial ventures. One we took a dave Ramsey course in math and another we watched shark tank in an economics class. I love those teachers for that! other than that basic things like English, simple mathematics. Alot of time was wasted other than that. Which is the point tailor it to the student somehow so their time isn't wasted. Though talking won't get much done, we have to take action

 

[Empires]

Good video on the subject.

 

[G-Man]

After spending 4 years in a large education iNGO with funding from governments and billionaires, I decided that my child will never be in public school. The primary function of school is social indoctrination (like MJ said above).

If you're interested in how it's super important to teach LGBT sensitivity to starving people, or how homeschooling your child violates their 'human rights', let me know. BTW, not joking. I've sat in rooms full of PhDs arguing those very things.

 

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[Hac]

i think the problem with our school systems is that it subconsciously places an emphasis on the students becoming employees instead of employers. How so? Maybe because the people that work in the school systems are all employees.

"You should just believe in yourself go out in the real world and create your own destiny" SAID NO TEACHER EVER

 

[Pilot35]

 

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[OpulentSupercars]

Today the education is bad because it teaches kids to follow the rules, that good if you want to work for a boss. But kids need to be able to self express and learn that there are more than two paths in life and those are work or school.

Schools should have courses for entourpourship because growing up I never knew I could make an opportunity for myself. But I also think no one wants to talk about it because it's risky and a lot of let downs happen.

In order to be successful you need trial and error and most parents don't want that it's safer to work for a boss then to be one.
Young adults usually figure it out after the fact.

 

[G-Man]

making decisions and dealing with customers on their own.

That is super cool for someone that age. My 9th grade public school introduction to business was reading "the Jungle", and learning how business people are heartless tyrants that live to exploit people.

 

[applesack]

Modern "education" is wrong. That's about all I care to say on that subject. I let my kids pursue what they love and work the rest in as necessary. Most of my kids can speak to eachother in ASL sign langauge, and none of them know anyone who is deaf. My oldest three are considered by most adults to be musical geniuses because of their crazy tenacity to get through Suzuki Method piano and violin. My 15 year old has illustrated the covers of two local magazines and is a shockingly good 3D artist. My 11 year old has a flock of sheep that she manages and cares for. She gets help with shearing and "harvesting" but beyond that she does it all.

Its just as @eliquid above mentioned, let them follow the things they enjoy and give them the tools they need to get there. If the kid hates math, its okay. The kid still needs math. Show him / her how they need it and then give them the tools to excel. I was / am a freaking math genius, but none of my kids have any affinity for it. I still show them how they need it in projects they pursue and give them incentive to work through Kahn Academy or similar... whatever works best for them.

On top of this I always teach them how to ground themselves (principle of freedom). Then what things in life are most generative, and what things are useless. That, in my opinion, is true, effective education.

 

[mayana]

It's just ultimate flexibility.

Exactly! We love this. We do year-round school, since we like to travel a lot. We can take days off whenever we want to. I let my daughter go out of the country (where they also speak another language!) for three months last year to stay with a relative just because it was a good opportunity for her. I never would have been able to let her do that otherwise. She does most of her school online, so she did all of her work there, and even played her musical instrument with a youth group there, and took lessons while she was there. It was fun for her to be so independent. We go wherever we want, whenever we want. It's fantastic. And no begging and pleading schools to accept whatever excuse for missing school

Its just as @eliquid above mentioned, let them follow the things they enjoy and give them the tools they need to get there. If the kid hates math, its okay. The kid still needs math. Show him / her how they need it and then give them the tools to excel. I was / am a freaking math genius, but none of my kids have any affinity for it. I still show them how they need it in projects they pursue and give them incentive to work through Kahn Academy or similar... whatever works best for them.

That's very similar to what we do here. It is working wonderfully for us!

All of my kids speak two languages fluently. The two middle kids are gaining fluency in a third language, and the oldest speaks four languages with varying levels of fluency. They love it, and they would never have time for that if they were spending so much time in class at school.

I'm definitely not a hater of public or private schooling. If it is working for people, that's great. If we lived in a place where the schools are better, I might (?) be making different choices. So I support everyone in how they decide to education their children.

Also, we don't spend any more than $200-$300 a year on the homeschool supplies. Most of the things that we do are free online. I do occasionally have to buy something like a new textbook, but usually I can find things used very easily. I just mention this for anyone who is wondering if it is really expensive to do this. There was also a question about regulations. Where I live, it's so freaking easy. You just fill out an online form once a year. There is no reporting grades or anything to the state. Some states have stricter laws, so people just have to look into it where they live.

 

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[Invictus]

Yes, other than obvious like having a calulator, pens, paper, etc which cost is NILL pretty much. It was right at $500 give or take $20 total to allow all 3 kids to get their grade level books or online course.

Good to hear! That's not a bad investment at all.

Thanks for letting me know!

 

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[Jackflower93]

I know this may have already been discussed but i couldn't find it.. I feel pretty passionate about this tonight...

I've been chatting to a group of people about the current education systems in place around the world. How much quicker, if any, do you think you would be were you are today if you were taught more relevant subjects in school?

What would these subjects be, without being to generalized?

It would certainly be interesting to know your thoughts because the guys I was chatting with tonight think education is exactly were it needs to be....

 

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[Tapp001]

The modern schooling system is such as mess of competing influences and origins that its hard to point out any one thing wrong with it, suffice to say that it's meant to be a 'one size fits all' system, and many, many students won't fit. I do think most teachers do the best job that they can, though the small percent of awful ones have a disproportionate impact.

Even if a child does well at school, the parent should keep a close eye on them, and probably provide some supplementary education. I went to school, and did OK in classes, but I also learned history and electronics from my Dad and science and literature from Mom (Very much aware at hoe blessed I was in that respect).

 

[Raoul Duke]

http://sethgodin.typepad.com/stop_s...g-dreams-the-entire-manifesto-on-the-web.html

 

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[devine]

We don't put a priority on REAL education in our country. People would rather the school systems spend money on developing good sports programs, instead of hiring better teachers/new books/other educational things.
We have a gigantic problem with priorities and how we assign value as a culture.

So true.

 

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[devine]

If anyone is interested in checking it out or providing feedback (again, we still have some improvements coming on the website), here it is:
http://www.ReadySetSTEM.com

1. Put CTA in the end of the page or rename it to "Take a tour". Make offers only after people become interested.
2. Testimonials have ~2% value at best in your case. Put them after everything else.
3. Improve clarity of message: Create an interesting tour on your home page, make people intrigued with non-generic details and benefits of your kit.
Right now majority of people who might be interested in your kit won't get enough information about it from your website. This is not a kind of product people will buy without analysis.

 

[Runum]

We've sold about 600 kits to some early adopters in the past few months and just did a more official soft-launch of the product last week -- we still have some improvements to make to the website, product video, etc. We will start more heavy marketing in the next few weeks.

We have spent much of the past year working with various parents, private schools, summer camps, homeschooling families, local technology groups and other educational organizations around the country to get input on the product and curriculum, and the feedback and reactions we gotten from parents, educators and kids has been tremendous.

Over the next year or so, we'll be working on a cost-reduced version of the kit to make it more accessible to families and educational groups in lower-income areas and we'll likely be expanding our business model (subscription services for parents, online curriculum for schools, etc).

If anyone is interested in checking it out or providing feedback (again, we still have some improvements coming on the website), here it is:

http://www.ReadySetSTEM.com

And if anyone has kids 13+ and is interested in buying one, shoot me a PM and I'll give you a 20% discount code you can use...

And if you just want to support us, feel free to follow us on Facebook (/ReadySetSTEM) or Twitter (@ReadySetSTEM)!

Impressive! I wish you well.

 

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[RussRussman18]

Wow... what fantastic information from you guys! To say one thing, and to simplify as much as I can, I am clearly not the only one that believes there needs to be fundamental changes. Thanks for your input, it's really helped me see things from several new perspectives.

One thing I have defiantly picked up on is the passion a lot of you feel about this subject like myself.



I will defiantly have a look at this!

I kind of feel like alot of the stuff wrong with high school was trickle down from the monopoly the college level has on being "prestigious" and "well paid" and "successful" + the factor of funding

I saw alot of people get treated like worthless trash because they weren't going to college, or were going to trade school

Nowadays HS is more like "college prep" with little to no branching curriculum paths for other choices

 

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[nebulus]

edit

 

[Runum]

please tell me what you think should be taught o wise one? more about how the mitochondria works in a ****ing frog?

not trying to get political, but maybe if people were taught economics in school, this presidential election wouldn't have us choosing between a sociopathic traitor, a trust fund baby boomer, and a cracked out commie pinko?

This is where you kinda cross the line and you know it. In order to learn and discuss we have to be civil and on point. Throwing out red herrings makes you look weak.

I can say that the schools are required to spend time teaching many more topics than I agree with. Each year the powers that control the schools place more subject matter on them. It concerns me because there are many things that have to be taught that I don't think should be under the umbrella of public education.

It would be my wish that we go back to the required minimum subjects and then there would be time left over for each student to choose their extras.

However, the devil is in the details. Getting everyone to agree on the minimums is the problem.

 

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[amp0193]

We've sold about 600 kits to some early adopters in the past few months and just did a more official soft-launch of the product last week -- we still have some improvements to make to the website, product video, etc. We will start more heavy marketing in the next few weeks.

We have spent much of the past year working with various parents, private schools, summer camps, homeschooling families, local technology groups and other educational organizations around the country to get input on the product and curriculum, and the feedback and reactions we gotten from parents, educators and kids has been tremendous.

Over the next year or so, we'll be working on a cost-reduced version of the kit to make it more accessible to families and educational groups in lower-income areas and we'll likely be expanding our business model (subscription services for parents, online curriculum for schools, etc).

If anyone is interested in checking it out or providing feedback (again, we still have some improvements coming on the website), here it is:

http://www.ReadySetSTEM.com

And if anyone has kids 13+ and is interested in buying one, shoot me a PM and I'll give you a 20% discount code you can use...

And if you just want to support us, feel free to follow us on Facebook (/ReadySetSTEM) or Twitter (@ReadySetSTEM)!

Love it, looks really cool, and I think your branding is on point!

 

[devine]

Generally "those who can't do, teach."

First, anything requires a lot of experience to teach it on a good level. Practical experience.
Second, there is a Huxley socionic type that is limitlessly more efficient in guiding than going by himself. Some people are natural born teachers and judging them by their ability to "do" is like judging a monkey by its ability to fly.

 

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[ApparentHorizon]

I remember the amount of time we spent learning poetry.. Now Im not saying its useless... but you need to weigh in how relevant it is to real life pratical situations...sure if you want to learn poetry you should have the option to opt in...

My point is this, can that limited amount of time be spent on something that could be more beneficial through life, I think yes...

Absolutely.

You could replace more than half of the subjects taught with more useful classes. Car maintenance, taxes, communication...the list goes on.

But you know what?

At this point - we have 0 excuses. You literally have all of the world's knowledge at you fingertips.

Referencing poetry - look up Neil deGrasse Tyson. He does a bit of it and his on stage communication skills are captivating. He created his own brand by connecting 2 different fields (communication and science), and is making decent money because of the fact.

 

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[Mattie]

Before the age of 18 I can't recall anything that was significant to remember right now, but what my history teacher taught us. "People tend to become what they picture themselves to be." The basics of math, english, and psychology probably were something of value. The rest of the time, I indulged more in the arts. And I believe I was just bored with it all.

The business college I went to I learned more valuable information which lead me to here as an entrepreneur. I feel the education I received was top notch, but they were professors who worked in the community and business in their field and brought it to the classroom.

I suppose it's the education you're getting, where, and whether they have high standards or just the average University or college. What sets them apart from the rest. I walked in five colleges before I chose. What gave me the most value for the money.

In the end, you can see I am in the Entrepreneur forum, so yes it applies to my projects, but I feel I've educated myself more than the college did, and when I get emails from the college today, they're behind times.

 

[Christian949]

Taking community classes as the moment, and I'd say everything I learned so far has been useless other than the speech class I took this summer.

Speech class I really saw the difference in myself overcoming the anxiety of public speaking, it is the only class that I have actually benefited from - from my perspective.

 

[GuestUser155]

DISCLAIMER: I DIDN'T READ THE PRIOR 4 PAGES so if it has already been stated, I apologize.

IMO, today's schooling system (at least in the USA) now teaches you to be a good slave; obedient, unquestioning, and to abide by conformity. As such, you're no threat to the system.

The good news is that this presents an opportunity for entrepreneurs who want to create alternatives to the slave/indoctrination system.

It's called the Prussian Factory School Model and I quote "King Frederick's system was designed to teach obedience to solidify his control of the country. In the United States it found favor for its efficiency and secular form... The factory model method also features depersonalization, strict hierarchy of authority, uniformity over innovation, process and procedure, and standardization of curriculum, testing, class sizes, time periods, and learning rates."