Homeschooling your kids, yah or nay?

[MJ DeMarco]

Can't recall where, but I said 4 to 5 years ago that homeschooling would be a huge industry, minting new millionaires and billionaires.




Pathetic... or you can say, awesome, 9 in 10 own books.

 

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[AceVentures]

Can't recall where, but I said 4 to 5 years ago that homeschooling would be a huge industry, minting new millionaires and billionaires.

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Pathetic... or you can say, awesome, 9 in 10 own books.

View attachment 52210

My daughter is still too young but that's definitely the road we're taking with her. Also got another one on the way. He'll also be homeschooled. I'm going to spend big bucks on good programs. If they come supported with extra-curriculars with local organization I'm paying. Zoo, museum, arts, parks, hikes, sports, whatever they organize I'll pay.

I follow a handful of organizations through their Twitter and after following them for a few months I've become successfully nurtured lol I want to buy access for my kids.

I can imagine a bunch of other dads out there homeschooling their kids and customizing every aspect of their learning. What's the alternative? Who wants to send their kids to indoctrination camp?

 

[GPM]

My daughter is still too young but that's definitely the road we're taking with her. Also got another one on the way. He'll also be homeschooled. I'm going to spend big bucks on good programs. If they come supported with extra-curriculars with local organization I'm paying. Zoo, museum, arts, parks, hikes, sports, whatever they organize I'll pay.

I follow a handful of organizations through their Twitter and after following them for a few months I've become successfully nurtured lol I want to buy access for my kids.

I can imagine a bunch of other dads out there homeschooling their kids and customizing every aspect of their learning. What's the alternative? Who wants to send their kids to indoctrination camp?

Sounds like you and me are thinking the same way. My daughter is 6 next year, and will be in "grade 1". Which means mandatory school of some sort.

I don't want my kids to step foot in a government propaganda institute. They are disgusting. The crap going on in them makes my stomach churn. I live in a very conservative leaning city, and the shenanigans is even happening here. I recently was chatting with a kid who just graduated from high school, the stuff she said is going on was absolutely bonkers. Literally kids who said they were cats, and they would hiss at people and stuff, and everyone just goes along with it.

 

[Kak]

Homeschool works. My two and a half year old son could place in 1st grade already.

He knows every letter, every number, all the phonetic sounds for each letter, can count well past 20, can sound out some words, has a massive vocabulary.

I have real conversations with him.

When parents take time to raise their own kids, it is magic.

It is alarming how many people are threatened by his intellegence. "You guys are already teaching him this stuff? Why?" "Because then he doesn't need to learn it later, and he asks."

Whatever... Talk to your kids, even if they are super little.

 

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[WillHurtDontCare]

Homeschool works. My two and a half year old son could place in 1st grade already.

He knows every letter, every number, all the phonetic sounds for each letter, can count well past 20, can sound out some words, has a massive vocabulary.

I have real conversations with him.

When parents take time to raise their own kids, it is magic.

It is alarming how many people are threatened by his intellegence. "You guys are already teaching him this stuff? Why?" "Because then he doesn't need to learn it later."

My cousins are 6 & 8 and you can have real conversations with them too. It's disgusting how incompetent some adults are.

Teenagers led armies in the past. Kids can do a lot more than they are given credit for today.

Joined an army at 11, commanded a captured ship at 12 - David G. Farragut

Read history books and biographies / autobiographies of / by great people.

I'm reading Bust Hell Wide Open about Nathan Bedford Forrest. This dude grew up on the American frontier in the 1800s. His dad died when he was 15 and he took over the family. As a teenager he hunted and killed a panther that attacked his mother.

You get people in their 30s and 40s talking about "adulting" and 300 years ago teenagers used to hunt panthers.

Raise your standards.

 

[Robdavis]

Homeschool works. My two and a half year old son could place in 1st grade already.

He knows every letter, every number, all the phonetic sounds for each letter, can count well past 20, can sound out some words, has a massive vocabulary.

I have real conversations with him.

When parents take time to raise their own kids, it is magic.

It is alarming how many people are threatened by his intellegence. "You guys are already teaching him this stuff? Why?" "Because then he doesn't need to learn it later, and he asks."

Whatever... Talk to your kids, even if they are super little.

I haven't got any kids, but just from what you are saying, it seems to me that you might have a "languages kid" on your hands.

Perhaps you could try sharing some simple poetry (on a topic a young kid might understand) with him and see if he can understand the concept of rhyme and whether he is interested or not?

If you have got a "languages kid" then he will likely benefit from being raised bilingual, although if you don't speak any foreign languages (I seem to recall that you said that you don't) this will be total nightmare for you. I would guess that living in Texas, Spanish is probably the most relevant foreign language.

Hope this helps.

EDIT:
These are a couple of poems that your kid may be able to cope with or like, if you explain them to him:

Daddy Fell Into the Pond by Alfred Noyes​ ​

​ Everyone grumbled. The sky was grey. We had nothing to do and nothing to say. We were nearing the end of a dismal day, And there seemed to be nothing beyond, THEN Daddy fell into the pond! And everyone’s face grew merry and bright, And Timothy danced for sheer delight. "Give me the camera, quick, oh quick! He’s crawling out of the duckweed!" Click! Then the gardener suddenly slapped his knee, And doubled up, shaking silently, And the ducks all quacked as if they were daft, And it sounded as if the old drake laughed. Oh, there wasn’t a thing that didn’t respond WHEN Daddy fell into the pond!​

Cats​

by Eleanor Farjeon

Cats sleep, anywhere,
Any table, any chair
Top of piano, window-ledge,
In the middle, on the edge,
Open drawer, empty shoe,
Anybody's lap will do,
Fitted in a cardboard box,
In the cupboard, with your frocks-
Anywhere! They don't care!
Cats sleep anywhere.

Sorry about the British spellings in some places, I'm sure you can Americanise them, or find American equivalents.

 

[Antifragile]

Homeschooling is a big deal in this forum and I get it, alternative being public school isn’t any good.

But none of you talk about private schools… and that IMO is a mistake. Sure you may have little toddler with slightly better ability to count than public school… but that’s a low bar to level against.

To each their own… I can’t imagine any scenario where I’d want my kid to only learn from home.

Putting it out there so there is a little counter comment on this topic.

 

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[Kak]

Homeschooling is a big deal in this forum and I get it, alternative being public school isn’t any good.

But none of you talk about private schools… and that IMO is a mistake. Sure you may have little toddler with slightly better ability to count than public school… but that’s a low bar to level against.

To each their own… I can’t imagine any scenario where I’d want my kid to only learn from home.

Putting it out there so there is a little counter comment on this topic.

I absolutely believe that the right private school can be an order of magnitude better than public school.

I also believe proper self and home education has the potential to be an order of magnitude better than private education.

The problem with private education is it is the same traditional classroom and curriculum model teaching relatively the same stuff as public school. Math this far by 18. Grammar this far by 18. Science this far by 18. Meh.

I went to a prestigous private college with a ton of private school kids that, in college, were no smarter or better than my plebian public school upbringing.

My problem isn't public school. It is traditional schooling. The hard-core inefficiencies. The one size fits all path to graduation. And with all that, my kids being essentially raised by someone other than me and my wife (and the people we individually allow to impart wisdom on them).

There's another side to this as well. Snooty dickhead rich kid syndrome. Of course, if I wasn't home schooling, I would hypothetically put them in the best private school possible, but then, I essentially get entitled prick lessons for free with my tuition.

As we have seen time and time again... When you are wealthy, it is tough (not impossible, but tough) to raise humble and hard working kids that have the fire to do cool things with their lives.

I know the "who you know" thing is an important consideration to many, but that's what country clubs are for. If we are talking purely education, I am 100 percent confident I can raise the smarter kid than a squad of the best 28 year old communist teachers money can buy.

 

[Antifragile]

I absolutely believe that the right private school can be an order of magnitude better than public school.

I also believe proper self and home education has the potential to be an order of magnitude better than private education.

The problem with private education is it is the same traditional classroom and curriculum model teaching relatively the same stuff as public school. Math this far by 18. Grammar this far by 18. Science this far by 18. Meh.

I went to a prestigous private college with a ton of private school kids that, in college, were no smarter or better than my plebian public school upbringing.

My problem isn't public school. It is traditional schooling. The hard-core inefficiencies. The one size fits all path to graduation. And with all that, my kids being essentially raised by someone other than me and my wife (and the people we individually allow to impart wisdom on them).

There's another side to this as well. Snooty dickhead rich kid syndrome. Of course, if I wasn't home schooling, I would hypothetically put them in the best private school possible, but then, I essentially get entitled prick lessons for free with my tuition.

As we have seen time and time again... When you are wealthy, it is tough (not impossible, but tough) to raise humble and hard working kids that have the fire to do cool things with their lives.

I know the "who you know" thing is an important consideration to many, but that's what country clubs are for. If we are talking purely education, I am 100 percent confident I can raise the smarter kid than a squad of the best 28 year old communist teachers money can buy.

Oh man… so much to unpack there …

It may need to be a thread of its own but we really don’t see eye to eye on this.

1. You weren’t home schooled yourself. Neither was I. Somehow I don’t see either of us being some broken humans. So there is that.
2. Your use of “commie” … I was born in the USSR… so I was taught by real people under a real communist regime. Yet again, I don’t see myself as a victim of any kind. Quite the opposite. lol. So I’m not afraid of a “teacher” telling something to my kid. It’s my job to be a parent, but not to shield my own kin from the real world out there.
3. Rich is what your kids are born into! If you think that by avoiding private school you are avoiding entitlement your kids will feel … come on, we both know it’s a fight, hard road to make sure our kids don’t behave like entitled idiots, but likely they will. The hunger a dog feels when having easy access to abundant food isn’t same as a wolf in the wild.
4. I can see the early years education being whatever… easy to teach at home. But eventually subjects like physics get more advanced… what’s the issue with having people who are paid to teach doing their jobs?
5. Daily conflict with other kids allows them to lean social skills. I’ve only met one person in my life who was home schooled … and let me tell you, he was a CEO of a decent company! All good but his one regret was … being home schooled. Sample of 1 isn’t a sample at all, still that’s the only reference I got. His complaint was that at university he was socially awkward. It was the hardest battle he fought. I don’t want my kid to be socially awkward.
6. Your reference to “who you know” is on the money. But let me say that some snooty private golf club isn’t same as studying together every day for years. Friends are built through some common hardship are stronger. That’s why I prefer private schooling.
7. Unlike 99.9% of the population I don’t need my kid to be someone who I defined. Meaning that just because I’m an entrepreneur… it doesn’t mean my kids have to be entrepreneurs. My philosophy is “you be you, and I’ll be me”. So there are areas where I’m not only bad but I just don’t understand- like art. School can provide that inefficiency you describe and I’m happy to see it. I had same inefficiency when I was growing up and it let me break free from my family’s plan for me! I became the “black sheep”. And boy am I glad to have done that.


It’s interesting that you and I see a lot of things the same way but this is one example where we differ a lot. There’s just no way I can see my kid being home schooled.

That said, we agree on one thing here - the job of raising children is on parents. Anyone who’s “outsourcing” being a parent isn’t likely to have a great relationship with their kids later. As Steven Covey said “it’s the quality of time at work and the quantity of time with family”. So I’m the type of dad that is highly involved in my kids life. That’s also true for the other dads at the private school. We are there a lot.

I’ll repeat “to each their own”. But this debate needs a little more balance as it seems (albeit I may be wrong!) that his forum’s majority opinion is “home school your kids!!” And I don’t agree with that. Be a parent to your kids! Spend time to impart wisdom etc. but now I ramble …

 

[MJ DeMarco]

The homeschooling thread has been extracted into it's on chat thread... carry on.

 

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[AceVentures]

I absolutely believe that the right private school can be an order of magnitude better than public school.

I also believe proper self and home education has the potential to be an order of magnitude better than private education.

The problem with private education is it is the same traditional classroom and curriculum model teaching relatively the same stuff as public school. Math this far by 18. Grammar this far by 18. Science this far by 18. Meh.

I went to a prestigous private college with a ton of private school kids that, in college, were no smarter or better than my plebian public school upbringing.

My problem isn't public school. It is traditional schooling. The hard-core inefficiencies. The one size fits all path to graduation. And with all that, my kids being essentially raised by someone other than me and my wife (and the people we individually allow to impart wisdom on them).

There's another side to this as well. Snooty dickhead rich kid syndrome. Of course, if I wasn't home schooling, I would hypothetically put them in the best private school possible, but then, I essentially get entitled prick lessons for free with my tuition.

As we have seen time and time again... When you are wealthy, it is tough (not impossible, but tough) to raise humble and hard working kids that have the fire to do cool things with their lives.

I know the "who you know" thing is an important consideration to many, but that's what country clubs are for. If we are talking purely education, I am 100 percent confident I can raise the smarter kid than a squad of the best 28 year old communist teachers money can buy.

100%. This is the same conclusion I've come to.

I'd like to share my perspective on the same concept to see if @Antifragile can better resonate with it.

The way I see it:

Traditional schooling was born out of localized residence. In the age before instant global communication.

Kids were rounded up from neighborhoods and put inside a building. Adults in the same areas who knew more than the kids took up the role of teaching whatever that local area demanded of them, which shaped their development pathway.

It isn't entirely like this today, but the point I'm trying to make is that this idea of childhood education, the way we see it today and traditionally, is a function of localized resource constraints.

Today, I can educate my daughter the same way the emperor of Rome, Marcus Aurelius, was raised. By seeking the best minds on any topic that I feel will improve my child's development. In Book 1 of the Meditations, Marcus acknowledges all the people who have influenced him most. This section has had a meaningful impact on the way I understand education.


Homeschooling isn't about keeping your kid at home staring at an iPad all day, which is how I believe many people think about it. The term does injustice to unconventional education programs. It's more about customizing the developmental pathway.

Every aspect of it can be reimagined.

Who says when they can and cannot learn how to do a thing? And what things they should interact with? And how?

Why should my kids be sitting on a chair in a pattern of flexion all day staring at a screen or a piece of paper with their pelvis locked. They'd be inside a locked box-shaped room with neon-lights blasting their faces off for hours on end.

What if my daughter and a group of other kids get to play outside instead? Go to the pond and collect 10 different specimen to then look at under the microscope. Rig it with a 20MP rgb camera and project the view up on a wall so everyone can interact with it at the same time. Then they can connect the data stream to a pre-built Google Colab Machine Learning server to analyze their samples. Track every cell independently. Get accurate ML measurements of their samples.

Imagine she did that for 3 hours once every week. By the time she's 12 she would have more microscopy experience than graduate-level microbiology students at a University.

Now stack another skill and hit it for 3 hours a week for however many years.

What if she did 5 different programs each 3-4 hours during the week. Stack that with sports and play. 20 hours of "deep work" in a meaningful way with the help of world-renowned experts on whatever topic of your desire. And the rest mostly play.

This method is way more appealing to me. It obviously demands a lot more from the parent. Some people are too busy and poor to be able to do that. But for people that are able to break free from the Matrix, you can commit to their development, be active in it, and watch them grow into badasses.

 

[amp0193]

I’m generally cool with public school, but USA public school is a mixed bag, and a lot of it comes down to which specific school.

My kids have a pretty good one, but we’re looking at moving to another country, with a much higher commitment to education (and quality of life in general).

Not sure how I’d simultaneously build a business and homeschool my kids. But if had already made my FU money, and could dedicate my full energy to it, I’d consider homeschooling.

In any case, lots of travel and experiencing things around the world will educate them a lot more than anything else.

 

[Choate]

I don't see myself being able to give my future children a better education and experience than they would get from going to school, playing sports/extracurriculars, and being with their peers for 10 hours a day.

I don't see myself being able to teach them advanced subjects more efficiently than teachers with Master's degrees can.

I remember there being advanced math groups as early as first grade. 'A' and 'B' soccer teams as early as second grade. There is a meritocracy that coexists alongside the bureaucracy and if your kid is any good, they'll find it.

To me, the opportunity cost of homeschooling seems too great, in terms of both the child and the parent.

I see parental duty as being a guiding light in the right direction - not clearing the path itself. If public school is as bad as you all make it out to be, I say throw them to the wolves. They'll come home stronger. Or not. But it's out of my control.

 

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[Kevin88660]

I can only reflect from my own education experience, and relate to them.

From my conversation with friends the pattern is that at age 13-18 it will be an important period of life that shape your values and character.

In a tiny island country like mine, we once joked that while speaking to someone you will have a rough feel which secondary school they went to, not elementary or tertiary.

My middle school experience was that of a very good “private” all boys school. They are still heavily subsidized by state take in students via the state route (centralised exam). But they have a greater autonomy in designing their own syllabus and teaching activities without the hand being tied by the ministry of education.

The school culture and education experience can be simply summarized as “Darwinian” in which the winners are celebrated and losers are shamed openly. After every test the ranking and score of everyone become public available information being printed. If you are in a sports team or co-curriculum activities and the team fail to win any national prizes fundings will be cut and the entire club with be delegated into the next tier (drop in rank of importance). Continue to fail to perform will cause the whole club to dissolve.

The downside of this culture is it tends to produce people who are mercenary like and lack of community spirit. Within the environment such attitudes are normalised and you don’t know something is wrong until you get out of the environment and begin to meet people in the mainstream culture.

I am no longer in touch with the education for teenagers today. But definitely such practices and culture even if they exist, must have toned down a lot. Over the past 15 years, the general trend of education in Singapore is moving towards the direction of having more “political correctness” that emphasizes compassion, encouragement and toning down competitiveness. Teachers and school are also a lot less powerful as parents tend to voice out their demands and interfere with the system actively.

So my advice is choose the middle school carefully, because this is where most of the character building takes place. If you don’t like the culture think twice before sending your children there.

 

[Runum]

@MJ DeMarco had to expect that I would comment on this.

Retired certified public school teacher. Yes the whole system is screwed up. Overall a lot of people telling teachers how they should do their job. Those people don't all agree on how it should be done. On top of that, there are screwy teachers.

From my experience. Your child's education is your responsibility. You have the choice to teach them yourself but I have seen plenty of parents claiming to homeschool and clearly not doing so. You also have the choice to hire someone to teach your children, that can be a private teacher, private school teacher, or public school teacher. If you delegate their education to someone else, your child's education is still your responsibility. You cannot afford to blindly trust anyone to educate your children. Instead of outsourcing the education you should approach it as a partnership, they are your kids but teachers can help.
Example: I was a teacher but I do not have all the skills and experience to teach my own kid in all subjects K-12. We had to have some help with music and band in high school.

Teaching is a form of art. You have to read the kids and understand them when they do not understand your lesson but will not ask questions. When I taught math, I was able to know the mistakes that a student would make before they made it. I had also developed methods for the students to use to prevent or correct those mistakes. I could not teach reading very well because I do not have those skills to assist the kids effectively. Not many parents are going to be able to cover all subjects at all levels. We also recently got a lot of experience with online virtual learning. I had several very capable parents that needed assistance with their children because their own kids would not work for them and the parents were tired of the fight.

Just my $.02. Ymmv.

 

[Runum]

Can't recall where, but I said 4 to 5 years ago that homeschooling would be a huge industry, minting new millionaires and billionaires.

View attachment 52209

Government tax money is making this explode. Our Texas governor has called a 4th special session to get tax funded school vouchers passed to enable parents to pay for homeschool curriculum. Apparently other states are already doing this. Parents need to do their research and make sure of what accreditation the program has and alignment of educational standards. I would guess most parents would feel like this will simplify educating their kids. The idea of sitting kids in front of a screen to passively absorb their education, like a movie, year after year, saddens me for the kids. I can see massive litigation in the future because parents won't get what they believe they are paying for, the kids will pay the price. The masses want "simple and easy." Raising kids is neither. On the positive side, the parent won't be able to blame teachers and the schools for the lack of their student's education. That I am aware of, it is not possible to dictate to parents to be parents.

Biz idea, there will need to be lead gen places that will evaluate the different homeschool curricula for the parents to make their choices.

 

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