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MTF

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When I’m 85 years old I’m not going to look back on my life and think “Man, I should’ve lived somewhere I would’ve paid less taxes rather than the place I enjoyed most.”

This Alex Hormozi quote has really hit home with me lately although I can still enjoy the Irish tax rate if I start an online business

I also have a relatively low tax rate and it's one of the reasons I wouldn't want to move entirely to another country with a higher tax rate.

If you have to pay 2-3x more in taxes, then it will take you way longer to hit the Fastlane. So I think that the best of both worlds is to remain a tax resident of your country (if it's low-tax) and travel between a few places so that you don't end up becoming a tax resident elsewhere.

Do you have any places where you'd like to move that are high tax rate?
 
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David Fitz

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I also have a relatively low tax rate and it's one of the reasons I wouldn't want to move entirely to another country with a higher tax rate.

If you have to pay 2-3x more in taxes, then it will take you way longer to hit the Fastlane. So I think that the best of both worlds is to remain a tax resident of your country (if it's low-tax) and travel between a few places so that you don't end up becoming a tax resident elsewhere.

Do you have any places where you'd like to move that are high tax rate?

Europe doesn't really appeal to me but if I was moving it would be to somewhere with a good climate so Spain, Portugal or Italy.
 

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Not sure how accurate is this image but if it’s true, then US has much more sun then Europe during a year. I didn’t realise that the difference is so big.
Add to this that South-European countries are bad places to make money (either slow lane or fast lane), in opposite to Miami, California or Texas and it looks like Europe is less appealing than I thought.

If I will get a Green card to the US, I won’t think twice :D
 

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It definitely has. Moving from Germany to Florianópolis, Brazil. It's an island in the south of Brazil with 42 beaches, great infrastructure, nightlife, safety and just general high quality of living.
 
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MTF

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View attachment 45940

Not sure how accurate is this image but if it’s true, then US has much more sun then Europe during a year. I didn’t realise that the difference is so big.
Add to this that South-European countries are bad places to make money (either slow lane or fast lane), in opposite to Miami, California or Texas and it looks like Europe is less appealing than I thought.

If I will get a Green card to the US, I won’t think twice :D

It's definitely true. Even Canada is sunnier than most of Europe.

For that reason, Seasonal Affective Disorder isn't as prevalent in the US as it is in Europe, particularly in very cloudy countries like the UK.

It's super unhealthy to live in a place where you can go weeks without seeing sun (this isn't an exaggeration, sometimes in Poland you don't see any sunlight for two weeks, just complete grayness). That thick gray layer of clouds that doesn't let in any sunlight eventually gets into your head and kills your spirit.

It's been like this for me since I was young. I could never understand how other people don't have this feeling.
 

simply_ravishing

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not sure how accurate is this image but if it’s true, then US has much more sun then Europe during a year. I didn’t realise that the difference is so big.
have lived in central cali my whole life -- IT IS HOT.
lol think the coldest it's ever been here is . . . 30* F maybe? has only snowed once in my life, when I was a baby
 

simply_ravishing

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It definitely has. Moving from Germany to Florianópolis, Brazil. It's an island in the south of Brazil with 42 beaches, great infrastructure, nightlife, safety and just general high quality of living.
have heard great things about Curitiba... that’s where I’ll be I ever head down there, plus I hear the women are stunners, all of em, could all be models… best part, they don’t even know it cuz they’re all so attractive it’s like it’s normal haha
 
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Tiago

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have heard great things about Curitiba... that’s where I’ll be I ever head down there, plus I hear the women are stunners, all of em, could all be models… best part, they don’t even know it cuz they’re all so attractive it’s like it’s normal haha

Curitiba is awesome, the only problem is that it's too far away from the ocean :D
 

Benjamin Pavliha

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I live in a cold country and each year suffer for up to 6 months because of the low temperatures, lack of sunlight, short days, and people with permanent scowls on their faces. I'm starting to wonder if it wouldn't be better to leave everything I have here and move elsewhere where I wouldn't live with anxiety, frustration, and stress for a half of a year.

To anyone who has moved from a cold, dark or wet climate to a warm, sunny and dry climate - has it made you noticeably happier and greatly improved your quality of life?

If you have family and close friends back in your cold state/country, do the benefits of living in a sunny and warm place still outweigh the cons of missing them and essentially having to build a new life from scratch?
I currently live in Dubai (sunny & hot 365 days per year), but I used to live in the UK and the Netherlands where it's rainy, foggy and cold 70% of the time.

I have to say being exposed to sun light and having the freedom to be outside all the time really improved my lifestyle. However, my advice would be to try it out yourself.
 

Damien C

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I'm in Melbourne Australia and while we have a nice spring and summer, I pretty much HATE winter. I know I'm a soon because an Australian "winter" is moderate and nothing like the brutal ones I see and read about on TV. For perspective, I did not see or touch snow until I was like 30 years old. But I still hate the cold, I feel it down to the bone.

I skipped a winter in 2019, living and working remotely in the republic of the Philippines and loved it. For me it makes a huge difference. When the sun is out, anything is possible. I feel optimistic, I feel energised, I feel happy. Dreary, grey, miserable and wet conditions make me feel like shit. I stay in, I overeat, and I am not motivated to go do things at all.I want to hibernate

I say it every year but I really don't know why I F*cking live here. I have a strong sense of obligation to my family and friends, but I barely see them while I'm here anyway, yet they get all "offended" when I pack up and go. I really should grow a pair pack up and go . Or at least take 3-4 months off over winter and go someplace else each year.
 
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MTF

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I'm in Melbourne Australia and while we have a nice spring and summer, I pretty much HATE winter. I know I'm a soon because an Australian "winter" is moderate and nothing like the brutal ones I see and read about on TV. For perspective, I did not see or touch snow until I was like 30 years old. But I still hate the cold, I feel it down to the bone.

It's really interesting since I see that Melbourne gets temperatures of at least 13-14 degrees Celsius during the day in winter and 120 hours of sunshine in the cloudiest month. That's a very mild winter.

Where I live, in the winter it's maybe 1-2 degrees and a ridiculous 35 hours of sunshine a month in the cloudiest month. Literally weeks can go by without seeing the sun. Even now, uncommonly for November, there's already a lot of snow and I haven't seen proper sun while being outside for a few days already.

And the forecast shows more of the same grayness for the entire next week:

gp.png

That's pretty standard weather between November and March. Almost a half of the year in hibernation.

Having said that, I still understand you because I once spent several weeks between November and December in one of the warmest and sunniest parts of Europe (southern Spain).

Despite temperatures around 15-20 degrees during the day (nights were cold, around 8-10 degrees) I still felt that it was winter and not summer. And while it was way better than being back home, it wasn't recharging me as much as being in the tropics or experiencing the summer with properly high temperatures and long days.

I skipped a winter in 2019, living and working remotely in the republic of the Philippines and loved it. For me it makes a huge difference. When the sun is out, anything is possible. I feel optimistic, I feel energised, I feel happy. Dreary, grey, miserable and wet conditions make me feel like shit. I stay in, I overeat, and I am not motivated to go do things at all.I want to hibernate

You have textbook Seasonal Affective Disorder, similar to mine. I have exactly the same symptoms. I can sometimes mask them working a lot (like I'm doing now) but sooner or later they'll hit me back. Which is why I'll be leaving in January (ironically, to Australia first and then New Zealand), if I won't have to take at least a short trip somewhere warmer before that.

I say it every year but I really don't know why I F*cking live here. I have a strong sense of obligation to my family and friends, but I barely see them while I'm here anyway, yet they get all "offended" when I pack up and go. I really should grow a pair pack up and go . Or at least take 3-4 months off over winter and go someplace else each year.

That's very interesting as my reasons are similar. My family and friends don't get offended when I travel but I largely stay out of the obligation for them. It's primarily for my parents as I very rarely see my friends in person now.

I recently had a realization, though, that my obligation for my parents is only on my side. I'm afraid that once they're gone, I'll regret not spending enough time with them. But the thing is that they have their own life and when I come visit, they often do something else anyway (like backyard stuff and things like that). So why do I stay here and suffer if this is only a single-sided thing?

Even if I offer to take them on a trip somewhere and cover the costs and take care of everything, they always come up with reasons why they can't do it (and my mom has been saying for years that she would like to travel).

So yeah, I can empathize with that.

I spent the last three years away for at least 2-3 months during the fall or winter and it's been good for me.

I encourage you to do the same, particularly since it's so much easier in your case to fly to, say, Cairns, and skip winter entirely while staying in the same country.

Out of curiosity I checked that the flight from Melbourne to Cairns takes only 3 hours. Or you can even fly to Brisbane/Sunshine Coast in 2 hours and still get way better weather (maybe not skip winter entirely but not be cold). That's like a dream. In 2-3 hours I can fly to a warmer and sunnier country but it'll still be winter there.
 

Damien C

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It's really interesting since I see that Melbourne gets temperatures of at least 13-14 degrees Celsius during the day in winter and 120 hours of sunshine in the cloudiest month. That's a very mild winter.
It is mild, but it's all relative and I still hate it haha, I need sunlight every day to function and be happy!

That's very interesting as my reasons are similar. My family and friends don't get offended when I travel but I largely stay out of the obligation for them. It's primarily for my parents as I very rarely see my friends in person now.

I recently had a realization, though, that my obligation for my parents is only on my side. I'm afraid that once they're gone, I'll regret not spending enough time with them. But the thing is that they have their own life and when I come visit, they often do something else anyway (like backyard stuff and things like that). So why do I stay here and suffer if this is only a single-sided thing?

I am exactly the same. It's one sided and a lot of it its in my own head. I think it's also the security of "knowing" if something went down and their health declined I could rush to their side and aide them. I think we need to stop apologising for going after the life we want and living for other people though.

I also have a friend who I live nearby who gets funny every time I gear up to leave, but I suspect it's down to their own insecurities and fear of being alone. I am their security policy in old age - which is unfair, really.

Out of curiosity I checked that the flight from Melbourne to Cairns takes only 3 hours. Or you can even fly to Brisbane/Sunshine Coast in 2 hours and still get way better weather (maybe not skip winter entirely but not be cold). That's like a dream. In 2-3 hours I can fly to a warmer and sunnier country but it'll still be winter there.

Yup - I have the capacity to get on a plane and go interstate / chase the sun in winter and I may very well have to do that in 2023 now that I am not on a salary / chained to a "job" For longer stints , going international i.e Bali, Thailand, Phillipines offers more sun for less money as the cost of living is lower in those places, so I can stay longer. For a few weeks I would go to the Sunshine Coast, for months - Indonesia or Thailand.

The dillema is, Melbourne offers me a better quality of life overall. Better transport, better housing, better people, better food - the only thing missing is the sun!!

You have textbook Seasonal Affective Disorder, similar to mine
I definitely have this, also bipolar disorder, so the weather swinging all over the place does not do me any good! I'm thinking of getting a lightbox for winter and doing bright light therapy in addition to fleeing the dreary grey winter. Anything else you would recommend for SAD? It's definitely real and it impacts me in a major way. Glad i'm not the only one.
 

MTF

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Yup - I have the capacity to get on a plane and go interstate / chase the sun in winter and I may very well have to do that in 2023 now that I am not on a salary / chained to a "job" For longer stints , going international i.e Bali, Thailand, Phillipines offers more sun for less money as the cost of living is lower in those places, so I can stay longer. For a few weeks I would go to the Sunshine Coast, for months - Indonesia or Thailand.

As long as you feel good in these places that's an option. I personally don't feel good in Asia as you always stand out (if you don't look like an Asian) and will always be targeted for potential scams and stuff.

The dillema is, Melbourne offers me a better quality of life overall. Better transport, better housing, better people, better food - the only thing missing is the sun!!

Pretty sure that you can have an even better quality of life overall in a Scandinavian country. But with shitty weather, it doesn't really matter much.

I definitely have this, also bipolar disorder, so the weather swinging all over the place does not do me any good! I'm thinking of getting a lightbox for winter and doing bright light therapy in addition to fleeing the dreary grey winter. Anything else you would recommend for SAD? It's definitely real and it impacts me in a major way. Glad i'm not the only one.

I have a lightbox and it's not helping much. It can stimulate you a little on a groggy morning but that's about it. It doesn't replace the sun because it's just a freaking lamp. You still aren't outside, you don't feel warm, and you can't enjoy the weather.

I've tried pretty much everything, from vitamin D to cold plunges. Daily walks in nature (regardless of the weather) is the most helpful. But the only thing that eliminates it completely is being in a warm and sunny place.

You may find this book interesting:
 
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Simon Angel

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I don't know, I like the variety. And I'm grateful that I live in a country that has 4 seasons.

I used to be depressed in the winter, often for no reason at all.

However, taking Vitamin D pretty much obliterated said depression from existence. This reminds me that I haven't taken any in a while...
 

heavy_industry

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I don't know, I like the variety. And I'm grateful that I live in a country that has 4 seasons.

I used to be depressed in the winter, often for no reason at all.

However, taking Vitamin D pretty much obliterated said depression from existence. This reminds me that I haven't taken any in a while...
Have/had the exact same problem. Fixed it with the same solution.

How much do you take per day?

PS: Getting a lot of light exposure during the morning also helped a lot.
 
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Have/had the exact same problem. Fixed it with the same solution.

How much do you take per day?

PS: Getting a lot of light exposure during the morning also helped a lot.

I'm at my balcony every morning after a cold shower to soak up some sunlight too.

When I do take Vitamin D, it's 5000iu and always with K2 as I'm prone to stones. I'm currently only taking a spoonful of fish oil per day which happens to have about 1200iu Vitamin D to go with the omega.
 

MTF

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Grim here in England today. Cold, wet and miserable weather.

Welcome to the club. Here's my forecast:

tpf.png

Pretty sure there will be no sun on Friday, either.
 

MTF

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I don't know, I like the variety. And I'm grateful that I live in a country that has 4 seasons.

I used to be depressed in the winter, often for no reason at all.

However, taking Vitamin D pretty much obliterated said depression from existence. This reminds me that I haven't taken any in a while...

You don't have SAD if simply taking vitamin D fixed the issue. Also, as far as I know, where you live the climate is much sunnier and warmer than in northern Europe so that's helpful.

But generally speaking, if you don't remember feeling depressed as a kid or a teenager when the winter came, then for sure you don't have SAD.

Edit:

Forgot to add that I literally can't understand logically how people can like four seasons. How can they be equally as happy during the winter as in the summer? How can you enjoy being cold? How can you enjoy short, dark days? To me, it's like saying that you enjoy being malnourished or sleep deprived.

It really is beyond me, and that is also a common symptom of SAD. The weather is a REALLY big deal to you because it has a huge impact on how you feel and see the world.
 
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heavy_industry

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When I do take Vitamin D, it's 5000iu and always with K2 as I'm prone to stones. I'm currently only taking a spoonful of fish oil per day which happens to have about 1200iu Vitamin D to go with the omega.
That's a very good combo!
Pairing vitamin D with K removes calcium from the arteries and soft tissues and puts it back into bones. It's great for cardiovascular health.

I guess that's cod liver oil then. I don't believe regular fish oil has significant amounts of vitamin D by itself.
 
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Simon Angel

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You don't have SAD if simply taking vitamin D fixed the issue. Also, as far as I know, where you live the climate is much sunnier and warmer than in northern Europe so that's helpful.

I didn't say I have SAD, I just felt depressed all year round and especially during the winter. A few months after I started taking Vitamin D, I suddenly realized that life didn't feel as "intense" and dramatic anymore and I didn't have that "dark cloud over your head" feeling all the time.

But generally speaking, if you don't remember feeling depressed as a kid or a teenager when the winter came, then for sure you don't have SAD.

I did but I didn't know that was depression at the time. Thought it was normal or just me being a sensitive kid.

Edit:

Forgot to add that I literally can't understand logically how people can like four seasons. How can they be equally as happy during the winter as in the summer? How can you enjoy being cold? How can you enjoy short, dark days? To me, it's like saying that you enjoy being malnourished or sleep deprived.

How can people be equally as happy during the summer as in winter? How can you enjoy being hot and sweaty?

On a more serious note, I'm not comparing the seasons in any way. Summer is still my favorite. I just like the variety and the summers are even better after a long and grueling winter.

It really is beyond me, and that is also a common symptom of SAD. The weather is a REALLY big deal to you because it has a huge impact on how you feel and see the world.

What is a common symptom of SAD? I'm at home for 90% of the day so the weather doesn't really affect my mood as much. I try to see the positives in any weather.

Oh, it's raining? Time to fall asleep to the calming sound of raindrops hitting my window.

Oh, it's cold and snowing? Well, Christmas wouldn't be Christmas without snow and cold weather.

Oh, it's dark and gloomy? Well, looks like a nice day to stay inside and work/watch movies/smoke weed.

Oh, it's warm and sunny? Time to put on a t-shirt and collect a shit ton of Vitamin D and serotonin.
 

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I didn't say I have SAD, I just felt depressed all year round and especially during the winter. A few months after I started taking Vitamin D, I suddenly realized that life didn't feel as "intense" and dramatic anymore and I didn't have that "dark cloud over your head" feeling all the time.

Yeah I meant in general that for people reading this thread, if simply taking vitamin D helps, then it's not SAD but a vitamin D deficiency.

What is a common symptom of SAD? I'm at home for 90% of the day so the weather doesn't really affect my mood as much. I try to see the positives in any weather.

The most common symptoms collected by Norman E. Rosenthal, the author of Winter Blues (note that these are seasonal, unlike with regular depression):
  • reduced energy,
  • increased eating, including carbohydrate cravings,
  • disturbed sleep,
  • lowered sex drive,
  • thinking problems, such as difficulty concentrating and processing information,
  • mood problems, particularly depression,
  • hunger for light,
  • self-treatment with drugs (alcohol, caffeine, nicotine).
The only one here that's very specific for SAD is the hunger for light. I have this symptom very pronounced. The longer I go without sunlight, the more I suffer and make tiny adjustments throughout the day just to get more light (stuff like not walking in the shade if there's rare sun, not wanting to spend time in dimly-lit venues, feeling dread with the sunset).

The rest are fairly general, though. I find stories of people having this condition as way more descriptive and useful. Here's the one I could have written myself (also taken from that book):

I feel as though I “live” only during the sunny months. The rest of the time I seem to shut down to an idle, waiting for spring, enduring life in general. This is no joking matter to those of us who are like this. We, in effect, live only half our lives, accomplishing only half of what we should. It is really rather sad, when you think of it.

I can more or less function in the winter but my energy is incomparably higher during the summer. It's the only time I feel truly alive. I'm 100% sure that the previous posters like @David Fitz, @Paul David or @Damien C would be able to relate to that as well.
 
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Haven't seen sunlight in over 4 days! Vitamin D supplement very important but ultimately it still doesn't make up for it.
 

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I found the secret to living in a cold place is having a sunroom and a sauna in house.

The few moments when you get hit with the crisp sunshine in a sunroom make up for the lack tenfold. Feels like summer in a box!

The gloomy days are what the sauna is for. You can just close your eyes and experience a hot country on demand.

I read somewhere that most people in Finland have a sauna in their house. Perhaps that's why they are supposed to be one of the 'happiest' people in the world, despite the cold weather.
 

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Haven't seen sunlight in over 4 days! Vitamin D supplement very important but ultimately it still doesn't make up for it.

Damn that's rough as you can't even go on a semi-comfortable walk outside with all that rain.

I found the secret to living in a cold place is having a sunroom and a sauna in house.

The few moments when you get hit with the crisp sunshine in a sunroom make up for the lack tenfold. Feels like summer in a box!

You mean sunroom as in a part of a house with windows on all sides? Like this?

GettyImages-1333652574.jpg


If so, I'm not sure how's that supposed to work if you still have gray skies and gloomy weather. Where I live, you can be outside at 1 PM now and it looks almost like night already (sunset is at 3:40 pm).

That, plus most people live in apartments so you can't do it anyway.

The gloomy days are what the sauna is for. You can just close your eyes and experience a hot country on demand.

I read somewhere that most people in Finland have a sauna in their house. Perhaps that's why they are supposed to be one of the 'happiest' people in the world, despite the cold weather.

Sauna can be definitely helpful though as you emphasized, having it in your house is preferable. Going to a spa and being in a sauna with twenty random people isn't very relaxing.
 
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I think it's also important to ultimately get to a place where you're happy doing what you do each day.

Then the weather shouldn't matter as much.

I've been thinking about this a lot lately. If you genuinely love what you're doing each day and look forward to waking up and doing it, that's got to be the holy grail for me.

We're lucky to have a few holidays each year, but near the end of every single one you get that dread that you're going back to the cold weather but also the normal daily routine, but what if you didn't have these ups and downs so much. That each day whether it was being on holiday in the sun, or spending time building a business felt the same.

How does the brain define what's work and what's fun or pleasure? What's different that scrolling through Facebook or sending 50 cold emails for example. How does the brain decide this task is boring and mundane.

We know that one person's hobby is another person's worst nightmare. For example I couldn't think of anything worse than working in a Florist. Absolutely zero interest in flowers or plants etc. But why does my brain think that.

Would I enjoy that job if it was in a place where the weather was sunny? The answer is still no.

Just something to consider.
 

redshift

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If so, I'm not sure how's that supposed to work if you still have gray skies and gloomy weather. Where I live, you can be outside at 1 PM now and it looks almost like night already (sunset is at 3:40 pm).

That, plus most people live in apartments so you can't do it anyway.

Yeah, basically just a glass box that magnifies and traps heat. So even a tiny bit of sunshine, feels like a summer day. Apartments have this, too, the newer glass skyscrapers/towers specifically. They are called 'winter gardens'. The higher up you go, the hotter it gets.

Depends on where you live, though. If you live in a place with zero sunshine, then probably won't do much good. In that case, the sauna works better.

Sauna can be definitely helpful though as you emphasized, having it in your house is preferable. Going to a spa and being in a sauna with twenty random people isn't very relaxing.

Yeah, agreed. Maybe you could look into getting one built where you live? Not sure what the construction details etc are.
 

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I think it's also important to ultimately get to a place where you're happy doing what you do each day.

Then the weather shouldn't matter as much.

I've been thinking about this a lot lately. If you genuinely love what you're doing each day and look forward to waking up and doing it, that's got to be the holy grail for me.

We're lucky to have a few holidays each year, but near the end of every single one you get that dread that you're going back to the cold weather but also the normal daily routine, but what if you didn't have these ups and downs so much. That each day whether it was being on holiday in the sun, or spending time building a business felt the same.

How does the brain define what's work and what's fun or pleasure? What's different that scrolling through Facebook or sending 50 cold emails for example. How does the brain decide this task is boring and mundane.

We know that one person's hobby is another person's worst nightmare. For example I couldn't think of anything worse than working in a Florist. Absolutely zero interest in flowers or plants etc. But why does my brain think that.

Would I enjoy that job if it was in a place where the weather was sunny? The answer is still no.

Just something to consider.

100%.

In my case, I love sunny and warm weather because it lets me comfortably enjoy the outdoors and engage in my favorite sports.

For this reason, I wouldn't want to live in the United Arab Emirates like you said in the other thread you could. I've been to Dubai and traveled across the country as well and wouldn't want to live there at all.

Same for Singapore, which might have a hot tropical climate but would be hell on earth for me to live in a city-state.
 
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MTF

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Yeah, basically just a glass box that magnifies and traps heat. So even a tiny bit of sunshine, feels like a summer day. Apartments have this, too, the newer glass skyscrapers/towers specifically. They are called 'winter gardens'. The higher up you go, the hotter it gets.

My parents have such a room in their house. They also have a regular greenhouse in their backyard. They do get warmer but the surroundings are still bleak, even when it's sunny. Sun is very low in this part of Europe during winter so even when it's a sunny day, often it doesn't even go high enough above the horizon to be above the tree line for more than an hour or two a day.

Depends on where you live, though. If you live in a place with zero sunshine, then probably won't do much good. In that case, the sauna works better.

Many places in Europe only get a few dozen hours of sunshine a month. This means that you can literally have zero sunshine for two weeks, then 1-2 days of sun, then another 1-2 weeks without sunshine and maybe 2-3 days. So this wouldn't work then.

Yeah, agreed. Maybe you could look into getting one built where you live? Not sure what the construction details etc are.

I live in an apartment. I know someone who set up a sauna in an apartment but I'm not such a huge fan of it to make space for it in my apartment. Way too much trouble. The last couple of years I usually skip at least a part of the fall/winter so it wouldn't get that much use anyway.
 

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Grim here in England today. Cold, wet and miserable weather.

Yes, but don't forget that it seems worse because it's been unseasonably warm until last week.

It's at this time of year that I think it would be nice to be somewhere warmer, but in the summer I remember thinking how nice it might be to have some air conditioning.
 

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