The goes up and down all the time. That's kinda risky.

How is a house an asset? Gotta pay mortgage. Gotta pay any maintenance fees(Washer or sink broke again! Tree fell and hit the house again?!) Gotta pay taxes. etc...

 

I find the "house is an asset" thing to be the result of living in the past. Before, owning your own piece of land was a big deal and the ratio of price to time was reasonable. It didn't used to take 30+ years (and paying twice what you thought) to own your house.

Additionally, unless you live in Florida you NEVER own your house. Miss a few tax payments on that land and Uncle Sam will snatch it. At best, you're renting from the government.

So many people brag about buying their house to me and look at me like I'm a sucker for renting a hostel for ten years. But they don't really own their houses and I LIKE that I can walk away without even giving notice to my landlords.

The business makes profit every single month and THAT's where the value is. Sinking your money into a mortgage only to realize your not liquid and then doing a reverse-mortgage to fund your golden years has to be the definition of insanity.

 

I'd love to hear about WJK's thought on this

 

I'm surprised it didn't say to stop drinking expensive drinks at Starbucks... but seriously, it wasn't until almost 2 years ago that I found MJ's work / this forum and honestly at first, I was pissed off.

I was angry that no one ever taught me at an early age that this was an option. All I heard was "a business is risky"... "99% of businesses fail in the first year".

The more I read, the more I realized that it wasn't as risky as everyone made it seem to be and that if you get it to be successful, you can escape the 9-5 grind that everyone hates.

It was terrifying to quit my cushy job because you're going against the grain of everything you're taught growing up... but so far it's been an amazing experience.

I just wish it wasn't demonized so much (greedy businessmen, sleazy salesmen, too risky, etc).

 

Hey MJ,

Yep! I'll keep it somewhat anonymous but it's one of the main top global investment banks that everyone knows the name of.

Even with how poorly the employees are treated there, sadly, there will be thousands of people always lining up for those jobs because of the company name and the salary they offer.

 

@Vigilante I think a BAN is in order

 

That article is fake news.

 

Just Wow!

Let me throw a few bones your way to chew on.

First of all, unless you live rent free in your Mom's basement, EVERYONE pays a mortgage. You might not own the home you're paying the mortgage on - but you do pay it. Let that sink in.

Next - as long as you ARE paying a mortgage, you might as well own it.

Third - you think there is no rent, or "overhead" in things? Every brick and mortar biz pays rent. Even online biz ventures have overhead. Oh - but that's called advertising, or support functions, right? It all costs money. Call it whatever you want to.

Fourth. I think you're going to love this one a lot. If you live in a home for two years and sell it, you don't have to pay taxes on any profit you make. To work this system, buy a home below market, then fix it up, then sell it after two years. Repeat. If you make, say $100,000 on each transaction, which is totally possible in my Denver market, when you get around to year ten you can pay cash for your home and not have a mortgage payment. Your friend/brother/co-worker, however, will probably be looking at 20 more years of mortgage payments.

Fifth. After you have your house paid for, you then duplicate your efforts all over again by buying a second home. Now you have PASSIVE income (income you don't have to work for) in the form of rent coming in that pays for - wait for it - your TAXES/overhead. Wah La. Now you live free and at the same time likely have some very expensive assets that are appreciating enough to keep up with inflation.

Sixth. Find someone that can tell you what I just told you. If you are young, you can EASILY be a millionaire using this knowledge in a very short time. Hopefully that person is in real estate (as I am) and knows the inside track of real estate, and can get you started in this direction.

Seventh. Find someone that thinks the way you do, but is 20-30 years older than you are. Now you have a role model that will probably resemble where you will be in 20-30 years from now. If you like what you see, then do what they have done. If they have just been staying alive and not making any progress over the past few DECADES, then you better change your thinking real quick. Or, you're going to be just like they are.

Get some books. Read some articles. Talk to some experts in real estate that do more than just "show" homes to sell to buyers. {Yawn} I wasn't born with this knowledge and neither was anyone else. Seek it out. You can educate yourself and be extremely successful. This should be one of the "core methods" you have at your disposal.

Or. Keep paying that mortgage. The world needs people like you to pay THEIR bills so THEY can be successful.

If this made you slightly uncomfortable, that's good. Then I have done my job for today!

 

This is a huge eye opener to me! In England the Crown pretty much owns everything, which means that when most people buy a house here, they have a leasehold.

Most of these leases are between 80-120 years (about 99 year average), meaning you never actually own the house you potentially pay millions for even though they call it 'buying a house'.

You can get a freehold, and a couple of decades ago somebody somewhere reminded someone that we aren't supposed to be a feudal society anymore and therefore freeholds (outright ownership) should be easier to obtain.

I have always put up America as an example of what happens in a society that was never feudal, in that you buy a house, you damn well own that thing and the land it sits on.

However having to pay tax on the land is pretty much the same as buying a house here and not actually owning it. In fact it's worse, at least there's a scenario in the UK where you can buy the freehold, whereas your situation is kind of like having a King you have to pay tithes to for your entire life.

I'm genuinely shocked, I thought this sort of thing would be everything America stood against.

It's almost ... almost Communist!

 

America.... please read small print before you crash the gate down to get here.....

 

Move to sunny Australia!

We run on the Torrens system here (which incidentally is what I thought the UK had... you are the mother country after all).

For most mum and dad purchasers, you can purchase the freehold here, meaning you can own it free and clear. Land Tax is only applicable on Investment properties, not on your principal place of residence. Similarly, there is no capital gains tax on your principal place of residence either.

That said, there are lots of snakes, spiders, and the occasional stingray.. gotta watch out for them!

 

Personally, I don't fundamentally have an issue with the 'buy a house' argument.

It's pretty good advice for 95% of the population, who never have any intention of being anything except an employee.

It offers stability, and a form of forced saving, and with a little bit of luck, an asset that is worth something in 30 years time, and if this this your motivation for buying, then you're probably ok.

I have issues with the uninformed mentality of 'real estate is always an appreciating asset' and as such lets leverage ourselves to the eyeballs to buy multiple properties on the expectation of making wealth quickly.

Recent rapidly rising markets appear to have instilled a mentality that all real estate is a short term money making wealth vehicle.. it's not, and never has been. It's illiquid, expensive, and in the in and out costs are massive!

 

You're absolutely right, of course. It's good that you can see this so clearly.

However - IF you are going to be the 'opposite' of average, you have to do something. The control and leverage you have in real estate can only be matched by starting your own business from the ground up and being very successful. I do know a lot of people that are very successful this way. But it's not for everyone. It takes a huge amount of work and a very good grasp of business. Those are qualities most people are weak in. That's why 20% of small businesses fail in their first year, 30% of small business fail in their second year, and 50% of small businesses fail after five years in business. Finally, 70% of small business owners fail in their 10th year in business.

Real estate, on the other hand, can be a rocket ship to wealth. There are books that explain that in detail, so I'm not going to tackle that here. And there are people here that have been there, done that - extremely well.

What I'm trying to say is that everything has its risks and rewards. I'm an expert on how to do things wrong. I seem to be able to invent new ways to run face first into brick walls. But I'm also an expert at taking things to a higher level and eventually reaching success. I just seem to always take the long way around the block to do it.

You should always have real estate for the cash flow - and the appreciation is a side benefit. You can never have enough assets that are paying you money. A business can drag you down to the bottom though. That's a topic you can spend years learning about too.

I just want you to FIGURE OUT how some people are successful at something. There are always players in any game that do well. And there are always reasons for that. Figure that out and you'll do well. Don't drink the kool-aid of how everything can be bad. If you do that, you WILL be average because you won't do anything - and, of course, you won't fail. But you won't win either.

 

You need to do some research as your statement is completely false and misleading. MOST of the properties in England are NOT leasehold and certainly not owned by the Crown. It currently runs at around 20% overall.

This is partly due to the explosion in the building of apartment buildings in cities, but also because of some unscrupulous developers’ (Taylor Wimpey for one) shift to selling their new houses on leasehold so they can line their own pockets.

This latter trend has actually caused the government to propose a complete ban on the sale of houses as leasehold in England, alongside restrictions on ground rents that could limit them to as low as zero.

So please get your facts straight before wading in. The UK is not perfect by any measure but we don't need people painting it worse than it is.

-

 

Hi Dave,

I think here in the UK we live in a bit of a property land bubble due to the small size of our island compared with the size of our population. The in-flood of immigrants has been the driving factor for the Brexit vote as the strain on housing, health care and other public services has been pretty overwhelming.

Also there are major restrictions on building here to preserve our green belt land which I approve of otherwise we will end up with just a concrete jungle. There has to be a balance however. New land has to be made available as we are not building anywhere near the number of houses that are required to sustain our population. And this new land is being made available as we don't have much option.

Because of this (high demand for a scarce resource) market forces dictate an ever increasing rise in value so the UK property market has always been a sound investment. Yes there has been times of boom and bust which has seen people living in negative equity for a time if they bought just before a crash but looking over a longer period houses have always risen in price and quite dramatically.

In fact Professor David Miles, (former member of the Bank of England's monetary policy committee) said last year that UK house prices were set to soar over the next 50 years while the average income won't be able to keep pace, putting home ownership out of reach of millions.

But lets be clear, it is the cost of land not the cost of the housing that has been the driving force in continually pushing up values. Today a hectare of land is now worth 100 times more when used for housing than for farming. This means millions invested by companies sitting on speculative land waiting for the right time to line their pockets.

Obviously the UK is not your average country and I am envious of people who live in less densely populated countries. Especially with large land masses such as North America, Australia and Canada where the scarcity demands are no where near as great.


-

 

Shhh Shanti shanti, take a chill pill man. I wasn't professing to be an expert on the figures.

As you point out about 24% of (detached) houses are leasehold, that figure rises to around 82% when you just look at flats (apartments). - Gov figures 2015-16

I was just pointing out the fact that leaseholds exist in the first place, is down to feudalism, and the US land taxation scheme seems to have ties to that, seeing as you can never buy your way out of it, as you can in Blighty.

Deep breath, backs away from the (pointless) argument.

 

Yeah the deadly creepy crawlies kinda kills it for me!

 

That's 0.325% of the house's value yearly (or 6.5% after 20 years).
I would say that's decent to account for the city's services (running water, etc.). Unless there's a well and no sewer service, I feel like those fees make sense.

 

Everyone talks about the opportunity costs of starting a business (lost wages, promotions, etc.)

I would like to know the opportunity cost of NOT starting a fastlane business...

What could you be leaving on the table by staying in the cushy job and not going for it?

The president always gets blamed for everything regardless of how much power they actually have over the situation.