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Flips, Real Estate, & Landscaping... You gotta Johnny Hustle baby!!

wyattnorton

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The first one is a $25k total project and the second is a $15k project.
Just in case anyone is wondering the profits from these projects.

$25,000 + $15,000 for the jobs total (deposit and everything)

Materials:
$4,500 job 1 - New pressure treated wood, Zinzer Primer, Cabot deck correct (the lady bought the paint for the larger job so subtract $750, but i will keep it in because that is rare)
$3,500 for the second job. Plants, mulch, and cedar wood which is much more expensive than pressure treated but it was a much smaller deck
$475 for a 30 yard dumpster
Gas is around $3.65-$3.85 a gallon, I drive a Dodge ram which is okay with fuel
$650 for gas lets says to drive guys around
$450 for Ubers/Lyfts to get guys home or from job to job since they're pretty close
$500 in extra material expenses (screws, drill bits, extra wood pieces)

Labor:
I pay both my guys $20/hr
These two projects have and will take a total of 3 weeks so 15 work days.

9 hours a day for two guys = $180/day * 15 = $2,700 for the job total

= $40,000 - $10,075 - $2700 = $27,225

I add a buffer of around $1,500-$2,500 for extra expenses so just around a $25,000 profit for these two jobs.

One came from doing a trade show this spring and the other was a nurse at my mom's old grade school so I was referred to her by some of the teachers there.

We do around 20-25 jobs a year varying in size, so we average around $10k-$15k in profit per job.

I get around 20-25% per job that we complete because I did just hop on as a partner. I'll take the low pay now to learn, learn, learn, and build a reputation/following around my area which is still taking off with new people moving in.
 
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Guest-5ty5s4

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In MY view, I see a lot of "fertilizing" companies. Seems like it's harder to find anyone that actually cuts grass. But when customers call in, they only ask for anything like fertilizing services less than 10% of the time.

To me, it seems like a competitive industry, that not many people are really even looking for, so there doesn't seem like much of a problem to be solved = less money to be made.
Best business would be to start a fertilizer manufacturing plant... just be careful with your safety/quality standards and maintenance plan, because that stuff is explosive!!

Jk. Nice progress @wyattnorton !!
 

wyattnorton

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Rough week at the end... had 2 contractors fall thru, one employee took Thursday and Friday off (which I knew about Friday, but not Thursday)

After this week I realize that the next employee we need to hire on is a materials runner. Basically, it is a guy who drives a truck around to the jobs, delivering wood, brick pavers, concrete, tools, etc.

Been running around WAY too much for it to make sense. So much so that I missed 2 appointments and rescheduled 4 for today on a Saturday.

It sounds like I am complaining, rather I am just putting down what is the next move and am quite excited that we are in the position with so much work to hire on a new employee. Training them will take some time... maybe a month or so and it will probably have to wait until next season as this one closes out. If we find someone who is going to stick around next season, then bringing them on now is not a ridiculous idea.

Bought another truck for $1250. 2005 Chevy Silverado 2500 HD 4x4 cab and a half. This may be a flip because of the amount of work (gas lines, brake lines, rusted frame) but the engine runs well and is a solid truck for ~ 250k miles.

Hopefully, these projects pop and can add 1-2 more projects to push before economy drops!!
 

wyattnorton

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My eBay store update.

Imagine if I was full time on this thing! I would love to set-up a real ecommerce business. This winter I am going to dive into how to do that once the landscaping slows down
 
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wyattnorton

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Update 9/30/2022:

Wrapped up the outside of one of the my flip houses.
The contractor that finished the roof, soffits, facia, and gutters is looking to do the inside work of my other property.

My plan is to keep the other house over and accept that I can't keep spending the amount for both houses... both new roofs, new gutters, and having to replace the garage door because of contractors slamming it is always fun. The one house that is inside work ready needs drywall, paint, flooring, and most likely plumbing/electrical. I'll respond to this with pictures of inside as is.

Landscaping has been rolling. We pounded out 3 larger projects. One was the deck job I posted pictures of, another was a retaining wall/dirt leveling job (nice $4k and $3k profit), and the third was a deck clean and paint and build retaining walls around the edge (I'll post pics)

Overall revenue for September was $55k. Profit was $32k.

Season is wrapping up soon so I'll have time to be on here more often and build my ecommerce business.

I'm at 367 listings, I need to hit around 15-20 a day to reach 2,000 by December 31st. Just going to push and grind to see if I can get to 1,000 before end of year.
 

wyattnorton

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Update 9/30/2022:

Wrapped up the outside of one of the my flip houses.
The contractor that finished the roof, soffits, facia, and gutters is looking to do the inside work of my other property.

My plan is to keep the other house over and accept that I can't keep spending the amount for both houses... both new roofs, new gutters, and having to replace the garage door because of contractors slamming it is always fun. The one house that is inside work ready needs drywall, paint, flooring, and most likely plumbing/electrical. I'll respond to this with pictures of inside as is.

Landscaping has been rolling. We pounded out 3 larger projects. One was the deck job I posted pictures of, another was a retaining wall/dirt leveling job (nice $4k and $3k profit), and the third was a deck clean and paint and build retaining walls around the edge (I'll post pics)

Overall revenue for September was $55k. Profit was $32k.

Season is wrapping up soon so I'll have time to be on here more often and build my ecommerce business.

I'm at 367 listings, I need to hit around 15-20 a day to reach 2,000 by December 31st. Just going to push and grind to see if I can get to 1,000 before end of year.
 

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TheJon

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Hey man, I really like to see folks like you out making the real estate thing work. I'm working on my mindset in general and have been wondering if real estate really is a fast lane business vs an investment vehicle once you have your number. Keep up the updates! My overall current thought is to start supporting businesses and crank out the hustle like you've described here
 
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wyattnorton

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Hey man, I really like to see folks like you out making the real estate thing work. I'm working on my mindset in general and have been wondering if real estate really is a fast lane business vs an investment vehicle once you have your number. Keep up the updates! My overall current thought is to start supporting businesses and crank out the hustle like you've described here
Real estate can be both. I’m flipping 2 houses to get cash returns with 6 months of purchase. Investing in real estate depends on the property and market it is in. If the property is a little shit C or D duplex in a B or A neighborhood, F*cking buy it fix it and sell it.

People who rent out small buildings like that are idiots. Get the cash and buy a bigger property.

Investing in real estate is when you do it to put your money to work for you. The way my two flips are going, I can hardly say it’s an investment or business… more like an expensive headache.

Watch Invest with Ace for no BS real estate knowledge. Some of Bigger Pockets episodes are okay, new ones suck so I moved on from them. Multi family Strategy is a good one too.

How do you support businesses?
What do you mean by working on your mindset?
 

TheJon

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Real estate can be both. I’m flipping 2 houses to get cash returns with 6 months of purchase. Investing in real estate depends on the property and market it is in. If the property is a little shit C or D duplex in a B or A neighborhood, F*cking buy it fix it and sell it.

People who rent out small buildings like that are idiots. Get the cash and buy a bigger property.

Investing in real estate is when you do it to put your money to work for you. The way my two flips are going, I can hardly say it’s an investment or business… more like an expensive headache.

Watch Invest with Ace for no BS real estate knowledge. Some of Bigger Pockets episodes are okay, new ones suck so I moved on from them. Multi family Strategy is a good one too.

How do you support businesses?
What do you mean by working on your mindset?
Well I'm considering creating a support business instead of a completely separate from my tiny real estate business. So for example, a good landscaping company is impossible to come by in my market, a good handy man is hard to come by, a good management company is hard come by. So if I build a business to help my fellow landlords with this, this might be a more direct path then splitting focus.

Mindset wise, I struggle with believing I can do it. I'm also struggling with my procrastination tendency. Working on both now and my plan.
 

wyattnorton

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Ups and Downs as they come:
Finished up one job on Monday for a nice $1700 final draw.

Tried finishing up a job today for another $1680, F*cking rain got us in the last 2 hours of day.

Also, eBay is playing the pimp game with my account by restricting it for a week saying I listed a "counterfeit" product when I was testing out drop shipping items from TJ Maxx and other stores... F*cking jokers

Anyways, on that pissed off part of the season wrapping it all up before winter comes. We have 4 more jobs to bang out and they should suffice.

Flip trucks are taking awhile to sell, sold one a week ago and crickets from then on out. Will update once I sell one.

Salute
 
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Guest-5ty5s4

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Something odd about real estate and investing in general that I've found is that mathematically, the active strategy almost always comes out on top. Passive gains from appreciation and holding are never going to win versus taking your big sale as fast and early as possible and repeating.

It's just harder to keep replicating amazing deals (flips, or new developments). But mathematically, money now > money later. So the sooner you can sell and do it again, the better.

Thoughts on this?
 

wyattnorton

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Something odd about real estate and investing in general that I've found is that mathematically, the active strategy almost always comes out on top. Passive gains from appreciation and holding are never going to win versus taking your big sale as fast and early as possible and repeating.

It's just harder to keep replicating amazing deals (flips, or new developments). But mathematically, money now > money later. So the sooner you can sell and do it again, the better.

Thoughts on this?
I agree with you on that. When you purchase a property for $100k, fix it up for $20k, hoping to rent it every month for $2k "passively" which is bullshit because you have to deal with turnover, clean ups, maintenance scheduling, etc. and you MAYBE net $500-$1k a month.

Versus you buy this property for $100k fix it up for $20k and sell it for $200k, NOW you have $200k to play with versus the original $120k you spent.

I never understood the initial buy to rent strategy. With my flip houses, I plan on selling these F*ckers as fast as possible for as much as possible so I can fold them into even larger properties.

It is the BEST compound effect in the world IMO:

1. Buy a property for $100k fix it for $20k sell it for $200k
2. Buy 1 more property for $150k, fix it for $50k sell them for $400k total
3. Buy 2 properties for $100k fix them for $20k each, sell them for $250 total

You can factor debt for even more money but let's use cash for that example

Etc etc.

That was just a quick example. However, when you realize that cash now is much better than cash later because you can use that to purchase bigger and/or more properties, then you truly start to see wealth.

Once you hit a certain point... let's say you have $500k to play with now:
  • Buy a flip property(s) for $300k
  • Put $200k down on a $1million apartment building.

Now you can utilize debt and/or equity financing (proven track record and you made some buddies down the line in the industry to invest with you) you can begin to focus on rent.

Even with the $1million apartment building i'd rather cash out from value increase

Let's say the apartment building (10 units) is 80% occupied while the market is around 90%-95% occupancy and it is $100 under market on the rents.

Renting at $500/month.
Old ---> 8 * 500 = $4000/month PGI (Potential gross income)
New --> 9 * 550 = $4950/month

This is just from raising rents $50/month and filling vacancies

Then you look to SELL THAT THING because you showed the market it can be rented for more cashflow.

I love a good flip and will continue to do that way. However, I am going to get into the debt/equity department regardless of the recession/depression were headed to.
 

Pete799p

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Here are some additional factors to consider with this decision

- Business or Investment Vehicle: If real estate is your primary business then a more active approach likely makes sense as you intend to use the income generation from flipping/selling to acquire more properties. However for someone who already has another active business/income real estate could just be a means to preserve wealth vs. generate it so the extra time/effort required to flip real estate presents more downsides then upsides.

- Tax Implications: Often overlooked in these debates is tax implications. For someone who lives in a high tax state like CA who is already in the top tax bracket the after tax return of holding vs. selling can be material.

$250k(Sale Price) - $100k (Purchase Price) - $50k Reno = $100k Pofit * 50% (top tax rate in CA) = $50k after tax return
Vs.
$100k(Purchase Price) - ($50k accelerated depreciation * 50% (top tax rate) = $75k Basis + $50k Reno = $125k Basis. ARV $250k * 50% = $125k refi loan amount that is not taxable. In this scenario the purchaser reduced their tax bill by $25k and was able to get 100% of their money back out of the property tax free so they can go do another deal. On paper their net worth increased by $125k tax free.

Do this 10 more times and now you've got somethings. Portfolio Value $2.5m w/ $1.25m equity vs. 10 flips that increased your net worth $500k.

1031 Exchange: Major tax benefit to real estate. Allows you to sell your property and purchase new property without paying cap gains or depreciation recapture. Now that you have a portfolio of 10 properties you sell them all for $2.5m. You can now roll that $1.25m in equity into another deal.

100% agree that the "passive income" from renting houses is bs but there are other asset classes that are, or at least as close as you can get. For this example we'll use a single tenant retail asset leased on a long term absolute net lease (no land lord responsibilities).

So now that you've sold your portfolio for $2.5m you roll this into a single tenant property occupied by Chipotle who signed a 15 year NNN lease and you have passive income for the next 15+years (as long as Chipotle doesn't go out of business) and you paid no taxes. In fact you reduced you're tax bill by $250k ($25k/year * 10) essentially using "house" money to increase your networth.

You could also roll this money into another "flip" like a value-add apartment building etc.

- Portfolio Size/Networth: For many in the current environment the constraint is not actually the capital but the access to deals. If you already have a $100m portfolio with reasonable leverage you can likely continue to regularly buy properties off of just the cashflow generated so selling the assets actually creates more problems as you now have to find another deal to exchange into lest you get crushed by the tax man in a market where you are already having a hard time deploying your existing cashflow.
 
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David4431

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My eBay store update.

Imagine if I was full time on this thing! I would love to set-up a real ecommerce business. This winter I am going to dive into how to do that once the landscaping slows down
If you want to set up a real ecommerce business, one way to do this is by starting to pay attention to problems that you encounter while running your businesses / hustles. Anytime you wish there was a tool that does this or that for you while you're rehabbing your houses or cleaning out a house, that's an opportunity for a new product. Sometimes people will actually just tell you that they want a product / tool which does xyz.

The actual steps of setting up an ecommerce business are not that difficult (although it can get more complex the further down the rabbit hole you go, but this won't be something you need to worry about for a while yet). The most important part about setting up an ecommerce business or any business in general in my mind is to make sure you build it on a strong foundation, meaning you have a great product or service. If you start with a strong foundation, you can make a lot of mistakes along the way and the market will forgive you.

I agree with you on that. When you purchase a property for $100k, fix it up for $20k, hoping to rent it every month for $2k "passively" which is bullshit because you have to deal with turnover, clean ups, maintenance scheduling, etc. and you MAYBE net $500-$1k a month.

Versus you buy this property for $100k fix it up for $20k and sell it for $200k, NOW you have $200k to play with versus the original $120k you spent.

I never understood the initial buy to rent strategy. With my flip houses, I plan on selling these F*ckers as fast as possible for as much as possible so I can fold them into even larger properties.

It is the BEST compound effect in the world IMO:

1. Buy a property for $100k fix it for $20k sell it for $200k
2. Buy 1 more property for $150k, fix it for $50k sell them for $400k total
3. Buy 2 properties for $100k fix them for $20k each, sell them for $250 total

You can factor debt for even more money but let's use cash for that example

Etc etc.

That was just a quick example. However, when you realize that cash now is much better than cash later because you can use that to purchase bigger and/or more properties, then you truly start to see wealth.

Once you hit a certain point... let's say you have $500k to play with now:
  • Buy a flip property(s) for $300k
  • Put $200k down on a $1million apartment building.

Now you can utilize debt and/or equity financing (proven track record and you made some buddies down the line in the industry to invest with you) you can begin to focus on rent.

Even with the $1million apartment building i'd rather cash out from value increase

Let's say the apartment building (10 units) is 80% occupied while the market is around 90%-95% occupancy and it is $100 under market on the rents.

Renting at $500/month.
Old ---> 8 * 500 = $4000/month PGI (Potential gross income)
New --> 9 * 550 = $4950/month

This is just from raising rents $50/month and filling vacancies

Then you look to SELL THAT THING because you showed the market it can be rented for more cashflow.

I love a good flip and will continue to do that way. However, I am going to get into the debt/equity department regardless of the recession/depression were headed to.
Some thoughts on this:
1. Reinvestment risk - This is something that is often overlooked. Just because you can find a good deal / investment today does not mean you will be able to find one tomorrow when you need it (after you've sold your original deal / investment). Simply a risk to be aware of. You don't want to be chasing mediocre deals just because you need to put your money into something (because of a 1031, inflation, returns seeking, etc.).
2. Most of the returns from a buy and hold strategy for RE comes from appreciation and not from cash flow generated by the property. We were analyzing properties a couple of years ago and I modeled out the returns on them. It was pretty eye opening for me to see that the majority of returns came from appreciation.

But don't misunderstand me. If you are able to buy below market RE that is underperforming and remediate them / create value, you can potentially create a lot of equity (this is what we did). You can then sell and then rinse and repeat as you noted. Just wanted to share the 2 thoughts above in case you haven't considered them. Hopefully this helps you a little as you make your way along your business journey.

Anyway, just wanted to share some thoughts with (and hopefully help) someone who has done a good job taking action!
 

wyattnorton

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Holy shit it's been since October since I logged anything so here we go:

1. Landscaping - Finished the season in early December with 7 deck repairs for a condo association and a retaining wall build for a nice old lady we are repairing her deck in March as well.

2. Flip Cars: Not sure how many I bought and sold since October... perhaps 3-4. I just sold a 2007 Monte Carlo SS for $5,500 (bought and worked on for $4,250 total). Selling a 2007 GMC 2500HD 8.1L beast for around $15,000.

3. Flip Houses: The contractors here absolutely suck. I had to redo all of this one guy's trim he put in and the floors he put in are "good enough"... we'll see. Should finish this one up in the next 1-2 months.

4. SMMA Agency - No this is not some dumbass agency selling FB ads to a business they don't understand. I have started outreach and building on a way to provide leads and appointments for landscape companies. I have personally done this for 2 years and understand how it works enough to provide it for others.

Will let you know more as I continue.
 
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wyattnorton

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One thing I found out through flipping these houses is it is expensive no matter what price you buy at...

So you MUST find ways to keep it cheap when you can.

I bought $2,000 worth of items on FB marketplace for less than $500. (Doors, blinds, trim pieces, etc.)

A roof cost me around $10k (which was a bargain compared to the other jackies down here) but the guy did a fantastic job.

I still have to pay a $4k-$10k nut for the HVAC, electricity, and plumbing because I want the person who buys this house to have a safe place to live.


I will post more as I learn and do more.
 

wyattnorton

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Uno mas update:

Turned the electric, water, and gas on in my one flip. Gotta give it to those 1980s heaters... those things go man.

Probably going to have to buy a new hot water heater ($500) and put it in or have a deadbeat plumber put it in.

9 times out 10 where I am, the contractors are complete F*ck ups. I would love to bring some of the young guys on this forum and show them what NOT to be like.

Landscaping will be starting up again soon. I've got those two projects starting next week.

Sold that 8.1L for $13,950. Net profit was $3,400.

Still rolling baby!
 

wyattnorton

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Interesting how I tend to pop on here when I am down south working on the house... only brain cells I can muster up most times.

The last two weeks I have been coming down here to work (4 hours south of me).

Just wake up around 5-6 am, drink some coffee, get to work, work till dark, come back to hotel, swim workout, hot tub, eat, pass out around 10pm.

Met with the electrician and plumber today.

I can sneak off with $650 in electrician repairs but the plumber is a much different story.

He's telling me that I need to add vents and re-run the bathroom amenities to the main system's drain.

This would be around $3k

Not sure if I am going to add the venting because I already am passing up on gutting the whole place to rewire for electric.

We'll see how I finesse this one.

My guys are finishing up another flip truck: white 2004 Chevy 2500 HD, should bring around $8k-$9k

Have a guy coming Friday morning to buy the Ford I am selling. Small $2k short profit but it is what it is.
 
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wyattnorton

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After I sell this house and the other one,

I am going to another state where I own 2 parcels of land on and near lakes, building some cheap houses, and selling those puppies off.

Honestly, I want to get around $150k-$250k+ within the next 2-3 years for when the bottom drops.

Going to be me a nice real estate empire. No jabboni bs
 

wyattnorton

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Update:

Last Friday I listed the first house I am working on for $119,500.

This is around $20k-$30k less than the other 5 houses selling in the area within the same specs as mine.

I've spent around $40k so far on this house with labor, materials, and bills.

So far I've had one realtor set-up a showing this Wednesday, but once I get more pictures uploaded to the MLS I know it will show more.

A trick I learned when listing with a flat fee realtor is to contact other realtors selling in the area offering them a bonus on top of your buyer's commission if the house sells before a certain date.

I am offering a 2.4% commission for buyer's agents and if they sell it by April 15th they get a bonus of $500 for it.

Just a little incentive.


Landscaping started back up. My guys began a project for taking down and moving back a boulder retaining wall among a few other portions of the project.

This is just under a $30k job and I have an $8k deck job lined up to begin late next week.
 

wyattnorton

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I should make a new thread called "Scumbag Contractors"

Had a plumber lined up this morning to come by and do simple things... easy $2k for him to make today.

Needless to say, the loser bailed because he "didn't want" to wear booties (shoe coverings)

F*cking dweeb set me back today and with a showing tomorrow I had to just rig everything in position without attaching things to their places.

Lined up two more plumbers for tomorrow. When in doubt, go to Ace and ask for references.
 
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wyattnorton

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Before and afters.

I did door trim, bathroom tile, cabinets, paint, and a few others

All else was done by contractors for less than $5k total
 

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wyattnorton

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Haven't posted much about the flip trucks:

Just sold a 2004 Chevy Silverado 2500 4x4 for $8500.

Bought it for $4,800, fixed it up for around $2,000. $7k in, $8,500 out. Took 3-4 weeks.

Now I've got this bad boy coming in. 7.4L V8... aka a big bitch. Got it for $2,400. Selling as is.

If I don't get the price I need to make it work, I'll just fix her up and sell for more.

Pics belows. Got excited because I didn't realize it was 3500... even better
 

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wyattnorton

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Update:

Landscaping season is 90% in full go... other than the snow storm we had today in the middle of April.

Let's talk projects.

Current project is large man. We rebuilt a 6' boulder wall that's around 30' long, poured a small cement pad, poured a cement walkway with a step for the client. Now we're building an engineer retaining block wall in the back, then pouring an 8' x 8' cement pad for a hot tub.

The client loved our work they decided to add on plantings and a boulder design... a nice little $5k additional down payment and another $5k when done with it.

Overall, this job is just over $40k.

Next job is a quick 2 hour $895 two maple tree install

After that we have a $5k deck repair job

Then two tree/plant install jobs right down the street for $20k combined.

And 3 others jobs lined up.

I had to pivot on how we acquire clients this year because two trade shows we did last year that gave us 8-10 projects did not do it again this year. Never got a reason why, apparently it wasn't profitable for them. Was for me.

So now I really dove into Facebook and Google Ads driving traffic to our website. I've had 7 appointments within the last 21 days from it and closed 3 of these, another will sign up soon.

We're at around $40k in deposits so far this season with $80k for completed projects. My goal is to get to $100k deposits by the end of May and then $200k in deposits by the end of July.

I really need to get creative with how I approach advertising... good ole door to door fliers may be necessary.

Other than landscaping, I sold the truck I picked up on my last post for $5k cash. Quick profit. Only changed a tire for $200, so $2,600 in it.

Looking to buy a few more trucks after I drop a $12k nut for taxes. Gotta love Uncle Sams pimpin'
 
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Last edited:

wyattnorton

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project pictures. I don’t do these enough but here is the front wall after we reduced the size. The clients wanted us to add a nice plant design and mulch to front.

The retaining wall is an engineered wall
 

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