First Fastlane Month, Feels Amazing! $65,000+ Revenue Pre-tax

[GrayCode]

Cool, definitely makes sense.
Def agree on devs not being salesmen all the time.

How did you make the transition from being a developer to learning sales skills and management skills for the developers? What has been helpful?

Well on the project we landed worth 300k - It's just me and another developer (friend). I didn't want to take on the entire project by myself, so I decided to split the work and the pay. There's no need to manage him outside of just knowing where we're at in the project timeline and getting things done.

As for sales skills, sales IMO is honestly just the confidence to ask for what you want, and be very bullish on why you're worth that. No cracks in the armor if you will. Confidence is everything in sales. if you say "How do you feel about XYZ price" that comes across far different than "This will cost X here is why"

 

[Vanyka]

what do you think of "free code camp"?

Free Code Camp have some great tutorials on their YouTube channel. I found these tutorials great - long, detailed and well explained (and without ads). If you put in the work and do/redo everything they show you, you will get great value out of that time.

I started with a vanilla JS course from Udemy which I completed in 3 months part-time while travelling. Then I moved on to Free Code Camp and smashed the React tutorial, along with a few more. IMHO, FCC's material is on par paid Udemy stuff.

I am sure that you already realise this, but I just wanted to re-iterate for all the awesome folk who are getting started here. It is immensely important to get your hands dirty and get stuck in, regardless of what tutorials you watch.

Just my 0.02
Rock on!

 

[GrayCode]

Good thread.

Thank you.

My advice for those wanting to code is start with basic Python/Javascript as they are easier to grasp then you can branch off to either frontend frameworks like react/vue/angular or backend languages and frameworks like nodejs and ruby/rails, php/laravel once you got the basics of development down.

Good advice. But beginners don't even know what those words mean. So it's definitely confusing to hear these terms. There's almost no reason to learn both php and ruby. I know you're saying either or, but to a beginner who knows nothing about which path to take. They just see all of them and think they need each piece. When in reality it's 1 front end + 1 back end. HTML/CSS is a must.

And that's if you want to be a full-stack dev and it takes time. You can get a job just knowing one side of that equation.

My humble experience is that you are not going be earning >100k+ working for a company as a new developer without at least a few years of experience with no degrees. College kids might be able to get a 75k job with a degree working for a big company but for people with no degrees you need to show lots of pet projects showcasing your abilities and years of experience to attain 100k 150k a year.

I think that's changing. I got 100k without a degree and with virtually no experience. I think this is the experience for most people because they're not good at speaking up for themselves or lack confidence and/or have imposter syndrome.

 

[GrayCode]

Cheers bud, I’ll keep an eye out. Anything you’d recommend i read up on in the meantime? I’ve been doing some miscellaneous reading and googling on stocks but without much direction or focus.

Expanding on my earlier post, I’m now in a job where I’m surrounded by top-tier programmers with years of experience who are mentoring me daily and only 1 slack message away from answering my questions.

The company funds all my courses and bootcamps all while paying me a very healthy salary. I even get to spend up to 8 hours of my work week on any side project I want to and if theres potential of a real business they’ll fund the biz for a 10% stake. Not to mention the network of investors and people who have already built multi-million businesses. The job is literally shaving off years from the learning curve and experience while still making bank.

I think many TMF readers misconstrue MJs fastlane concept. Your end goal shouldn't be life derived from the job, but that doesn’t mean the job isnt part of the FL process. They aren’t mutually exclusive.

Also +1 on MFCEO project. Andy saved me from my depression to get back on the self development and entrepreneurship horse.

Yeah Frisella is great! and as far as reading goes - I've read some books. But I prefer being in the markets and learning as I go.

I developed my own personal strategies and ideologies along the way. I try not to let other peoples opinions control my life and everything I do.

Self help books are great and they helped me too, but at a certain point they start to really screw with your mindset - I got into a place where I felt like I needed a book on X before proceeding. It's a bad mindset to be in.

That being said - if you want to listen/read anything there's a good podcast by a guy who interviews traders. The podcast is called 'Chat with Traders'.

 

[csalvato]

Congrats!

Just clarifying: did you learn to code, and have been saving in that time while working full time? Or did you just make $65k in a month from some software product/project you've been working on?

 

[csalvato]

To be more precise I'm in Texas and in my experience the offers here hover around 85k - 95k as a javascript developer (react, react native, angular, vue) assuming that you have a couple years of verified experience. Last December-November 2018, I interviewed with at least 10 companies and those were the average offered salaries for fully remote positions (which are hard to come by btw as everyone wants them).

I had a couple companies drop me during the interview process even after sending complete react + redux code assignments so it means that they have no problems finding enough people for their roles for less than 100k. Its worth mentioning that I had been using react for around 1.5 years and angular for about 3 years by then.

After weeks of that I managed to find one that is fully remote but it was not easy and it pays below 115k with full benefits though. Having said that I did find that you can get paid a lot more with onsite jobs compared to remote but I was actively avoiding those.


Which sites do you use to search for these high paying jobs while avoiding those foreign sounding recruiters calling you for 25 dollar / hour jobs ?

Your experience is so radically different to mine, and everyone I know. I feel like something deeper is going on here.

When I'm actively looking for jobs, I go on weworkremotely.com. I didn't even exhaust all those jobs when I got an offer for more than my target salary + benefits, after looking for ~3 weeks in 2018.

When I'm not looking, I have a LinkedIn profile set to "Open to Opportunities" that lays out my experience, using the names of the technologies and competencies I hold, so I come up in keyword searches. When I am in this state, my profile appears in 200-400+ searches per week, and I get at least 2 inquiries per week. I'd say at least 40% of them are within my target comp range.

But I don't really interview anymore. It's too time consuming and takes away from other things like family, and building out my own business.

 

[GrayCode]

I don't expect that people coming out of a boot camp would get 150k+

If this is your first job, you can definitely get hired for 60k, but I know I couldn't hire anyone good for less than 80k.

The people I've hired at 80-90k with little experience were making over 120k each after a year on the job.

A problem I ran into when hiring is that all these boot camp graduates think that a boot camp is enough. They were doing it for a paycheck. Hiring managers want to invest in someone who is a product minded engineer, not a paycheck chaser:

The Product-Minded Software Engineer

Product-minded engineers are developers with lots of interest in the product itself. They want to understand why decisions are made, how people use the product, and love to be involved in making product decisions. They're someone who would likely make a good product manager if they ever decide...

blog.pragmaticengineer.com

If you embody that and demonstrate it, you will get higher offers. @GrayCode's story corroborates that. As entrepreneurs, we should all be product-minded engineers - the most valuable engineers in a business.

If you've been programming for a few years and you're still not at 150k+, then the problem is something you're doing.

For example, for someone who wants to make more, you're focusing a lot on proving the point that there are 80-100k job opportunities out there. Of course, you'll find that.

I don't even register those job offers because I find them insulting - not just for me, but for anyone with more than a year or two experience working on web apps.

If you want to make more money, you need to figure out who you need to be to earn that wage and filter out all the stuff that doesn't fit your criteria.

Stop focusing on the jobs that you don't want. Focus on the jobs you do want.



You're making some assumptions worth calling out.

I'm not a back end dev. I'm a full stack product engineer. I do whatever is necessary to get a fantastic product out that solves problems - so I operate across the whole stack, including managing if that's what it takes to create an incredible product.

If you aren't finding what you want in "your field", then change "your field" to be the field where people are making 50%+ more than you.

Spot on. You know... @csalvato, correct me if I'm wrong. It seems that a lot of these reasons for not finding higher paying work (as I see a lot of comments regarding that) has less to do with the opportunities being available and more to do with the specific engineers confidence and self-esteem with being able to relentlessly seek better opportunities and know their own personal worth and what they will and will not accept.

Also, on your point about being a product engineer. I think that's going over some people's heads a bit. There is a large difference between a full-stack capable-engineer and a full-stack capable-engineer who is also entrepreneurial.

 

[ExaltedLife]

As a 3 sec google search will tell you “ror programming” means Ruby on Rails..

What's "google"

 

[csalvato]

Clarification:
- Started learning to code in Aug 2016.
- Started job in early 2018.
- Income you see there is from job + side hustle business (dev company) + stock market
- The entire 65k is this past month if you notice dates on deposits. Oct 20th or so until present day

Much more clear now.

That's a lot of coin to pull in from providing services! I imagine this was a whole bunch of accounts paying at once + your paychecks?

Again, congrats! A very similar story to my own.

 

[GrayCode]

Congratulations my friend.

I am also learning to code and your story makes me feel more confident. Yeah you are right, many JavaScript based libraries and frameworks are not easy for new developers to digest.



I totally agree with you.



Although I am not Graycode, I still learn something from your post. Thank you MJ.

Graycode, I also like your story because of your hard word and consistency (the process).

Keep going, my friend.

Thank you @Loop - Stay motivated, stay confident. Anyone can learn to code - just takes persistence.

 

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[garyfritz]

I'm a RoR programmer + have worked as a CTO-level leader.
Whenever I am looking for jobs, my inbox fills up fast with recruiter messages. I often have to tell them I won't even look at their job unless it's over $200k/year, the ability to work fully remote all the time on my own schedule, fully paid healthcare, and an office budget.
And even then, they still want to interview/hire me.

That's amazing. If you look at Ruby and RoR, Ruby popularity spiked when Rails came out, but both have been drooping ever since:


Now compare that to Python and JavaScript. Ruby and RoR are down at the bottom, but I'm not sure how that actually translates to comparative amount of work opportunities.


Your success suggests there is still plenty of lucrative RoR work out there -- though I gotta think your results have more to do with your CTO-level abilities than with the RoR programmer market. I doubt a typical RoR freelancer would get many >$200k offers. If I was starting out, I would focus on Python. It seems to have a lot more stable organic growth path.

 

[garyfritz]

Well, not everybody is wired to be a code jockey. It takes an analytical mindset, a logical way of viewing problems, an ability to visualize fairly abstract solutions, hopefully an enjoyment of problem-solving. Any sharp person can learn to program simple stuff if they try, but not everybody is cut out to be a professional programmer. Just like not everybody is cut out to be a top-tier entrepreneur, or manager, or artist, or whatever.

 

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[csalvato]

You made a lot of claims that I think are inaccurate, not that it matters too much. I wouldn't say data science is the only reason python has been gaining rapid growth. The language is used in many, many disciplines and domains.

Flask and Django are awesome web frameworks and although they are not always only used for the frontend, they are extremely common back-end frameworks for many companies. It's pretty common to have one of the 'hot' frameworks like VueJS on the front end with a python backend.

It doesn't matter though, it all translates, as was said.


OP, congrats on your hard work, that's some awesome progress. I am curious more on the side income and takeaways you have there. How long did it take to build the dev shop up and what advice would you give someone wanting to follow the same steps? I am a developer already btw

Objectively speaking, python is less- or as-popular as most other web technologies. It’s one offering in a very fragmented ecosystem.

When it comes to big data, there are only two practical choices - R and Python; and python is more mature for production data applications.

Listen, I never said Python wasn’t used on the web, just that it’s not my first choice personally.

Sheesh.

EDIT: Because you're the second person to make a comment on this, I edited my original post for clarity.

 

[lobo]

My focus is on learning languages that will have job Stability over the next 5-10 years and skills that I can use for my entrepreneurial ventures.

So my purpose to learn coding is to

1. Get a stable job to provide decent lifestyle & cashflow while I work on my fast lane ventures

2.Possibly build apps/software to sell in the future

3. Maybe even start a development firm one day?

The thing that confuses me is I See dev jobs looking for people with HTML/CSS/JS and even more (php, node.js, react,angular)...

Should I just focus on the first three and then add on as I go?

 

[GrayCode]

My focus is on learning languages that will have job Stability over the next 5-10 years and skills that I can use for my entrepreneurial ventures.

So my purpose to learn coding is to

1. Get a stable job to provide decent lifestyle & cashflow while I work on my fast lane ventures

2.Possibly build apps/software to sell in the future

3. Maybe even start a development firm one day?

The thing that confuses me is I See dev jobs looking for people with HTML/CSS/JS and even more (php, node.js, react,angular)...

Should I just focus on the first three and then add on as I go?

Really depends if you even like Java. If you don't like it, you should be able to pick up another language fairly quickly. (Assuming you understand programming and can currently build things in java)

If so, I'd go to Ruby/Rails. Then pick up JS later on after you have a good understanding of Ruby/Rails.

Java isn't going anywhere, it'll likely always be used for android apps.
Ruby/Rails, 100% isn't going anywhere, you'll always be able to find work.
JS is good, but personally I used it for mobile apps (react native) and React only if I want to spice up a front end with a reactive component (something that changes often, can't wait on page refresh.)

That's as much as I can give you on the advice side since I'm not really sure the extent to which you know Java. Have you built anything functional and online with it that I can physically go test?

 

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[GrayCode]

What site and tutorials and book you recommend to learn code?

Firehoseproject.com (bootcamp)
Udemy.com (coding courses)
Well grounded Rubyist (book)

Getting things handed to us never usually works out. Most people take the advice, and two days later resume old thinking. Keep in mind that I said that when you start thinking 'it's too hard'.

 

[ADayattheRoxbury]

I wanted to post this here as motivation for others and proof that @MJ DeMarco is having an actual effect on changing people's lives. This has been a long time coming...

I first read MFL in 2015 and it changed how I approached things. I wound up learning to code from scratch self-taught. It was a long journey (the process) of ditching my late 20's and digging in to learning code. Head buried in books, podcasts, blogs, courses, and anything else I could get my hands on. It started paying off last year when I got hired full-time as a software engineer.

Went from being a personal trainer making maybe $30k a year to making $100k per year as an engineer. It was a huge upgrade for me and I stuck with my minimalistic living (in NYC) to keep bills low so I can finally get ahead. Paid off some credit debt and never looked back.

There were so many milestones I hit along the way. Here I am 4 years later, getting ready to go into the next decade with new life, pep in my step and my focus on being full-time fastlane.

@MJ DeMarco ... Thank you.

And thanks to everyone else whom I've learned things from over the years. If there's any way I can give back by helping answer questions or etc, I'd be happy to.

Probably should’ve read the title, saw the bank and was like whoa man, solid! $65K is a great start for a year...

Then I realized it was a month.

And my mouth dropped.

And it’s still open.

Great job man! Keep up the stellar work! Just imagine, if you’re here already, where will you be in a few years? If you invest, look into adding bonds per your age as a percentage of your portfolio and watch that money multiply into retirement . Seriously man, stoked for you!

 

[stormjb1]

Congrats my man! @GrayCode I have a very similar story to yours. Self taught and added a lot of value to myself through £10 Udemy courses!

A well paying job (ideally one with skills crossover to your side-business e.g code, marketing) is instrumental in becoming fastlane imo. The job hate in the forums, which I was part of until I became broke and clinically depressed after entrepreneurial failures, is very misguided imho.

Question: can you go a little deeper into your stock market ventures?Where you started, what books you read, your thinking behind your investing strategy etc.

I’m a complete noob to investing but know the current recession is an opportunity of lifetime to skill up and invest.

 

[stormjb1]

Cheers bud, I’ll keep an eye out. Anything you’d recommend i read up on in the meantime? I’ve been doing some miscellaneous reading and googling on stocks but without much direction or focus.

Expanding on my earlier post, I’m now in a job where I’m surrounded by top-tier programmers with years of experience who are mentoring me daily and only 1 slack message away from answering my questions.

The company funds all my courses and bootcamps all while paying me a very healthy salary. I even get to spend up to 8 hours of my work week on any side project I want to and if theres potential of a real business they’ll fund the biz for a 10% stake. Not to mention the network of investors and people who have already built multi-million businesses. The job is literally shaving off years from the learning curve and experience while still making bank.

I think many TMF readers misconstrue MJs fastlane concept. Your end goal shouldn't be life derived from the job, but that doesn’t mean the job isnt part of the FL process. They aren’t mutually exclusive.

Also +1 on MFCEO project. Andy saved me from my depression to get back on the self development and entrepreneurship horse.

 

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[GrayCode]

@GrayCode Just wanted to say your posts are very inspiring. Thank you for encouraging people and sharing your story. It makes such a difference to read positive encouragement in relation to learning to program.

I dabbled a little in html css and python long back but the desire has come back recently after reading your posts here.

Coding is such a meditative flow based skill. Maybe not the learning part

Anyhow, just wanted to say thanks and looking forward reading your future posts.

Thank you - If you have a passion for coding and what it can bring to your life, then I highly recommend it.

You never really stop learning, but once you get past the initial hump and you can start doing things on your own it's great!

Obviously you can use it for anything you want, business or otherwise. And at the very least the skill will guarantee you won't be scrounging to pay your bills should you only take so far as a FT job. Can easily find 6 figure + job.

Truth is not everyone is an entrepreneur no matter how fancy the term and idea of it became. But everyone can unscript themselves from the 9-5 with programming.

You can think of any niche with a sizable market of customers and easily carve out 20k a month for yourself. Depending on the size of the market ofcourse. In a $2b+ market (random number) it's not impossible for one engineer to do his own thing over a long period of time and build to $100k+ per month

 

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[BenG]

That's awesome. What language did you learn to code? Currently learning PHP myself for part of my degree.

 

[lobo]

If one was to follow your footsetps, where should one start?

maybe start with HTML & CSS & Javascript?

 

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[Benji90]

You probably don't need a pile Just pick one that's in demand and go with it. Anything from here is a good choice:

Stack Overflow Developer Survey 2019

Nearly 90,000 took this comprehensive, annual survey of people who code. Demographics. Most loved, dreaded and wanted technologies. Salary and careers.

insights.stackoverflow.com

It was just an expression, I'm currently taking a Udemy course for front end web development, wanted to eventually get into back end, RoR seems like a good place to look at.

Thanks for the information, theres so much jargon when it comes to coding etc it's nice to get some directions.

 

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[csalvato]

RoR is on it's way out, learn Rust or TypeScript

What @GrayCode says is spot on:

Disagree. We ought to avoid saying things like X is on it's way out as if all RoR will fall off the face of the earth and all libraries and compilers will vanish. It's just not the case. It leads to indecision by beginners, due to people being religious about their languages. Neither here nor there, can agree to disagree.

Related: GOLD! - First Fastlane Month, Feels Amazing! $65,000+ Revenue Pre-tax

EDITed: Because I was being a dick

 

[GrayCode]

so far from reading this thread:

HTML
CSS
Javascript
Ruby / Rails

This will be a solid foundation to start with...and then build on from there.

Yep, can basically do anything with that knowledge. Vanilla Javascript btw. Vanilla meaning 'basic'.

 

[bdb]

Good thread.

Been a developer for around 10+ years. Barely crossing 100k a year now down in the south working for a remote company. Not sure where you guys get these 200k and 300k jobs, as most of the recruiters and companies I've interviewed for offer way less than that, specially if you are going to be remote. would love to know though, how do you guys find those employers or contracts ?

My humble experience is that you are not going be earning >100k+ working for a company as a new developer without at least a few years of experience with no degrees. College kids might be able to get a 75k job with a degree working for a big company but for people with no degrees you need to show lots of pet projects showcasing your abilities and years of experience to attain 100k 150k a year.

Now if you create your own business and take on clients you can definitely cross that line in a shorter amount of time assuming that you have success.

My advice for those wanting to code is start with basic Python/Javascript as they are easier to grasp then you can branch off to either frontend frameworks like react/vue/angular or backend languages and frameworks like nodejs and ruby/rails, php/laravel once you got the basics of development down.

 

[manxlin]

Amazing, congratulations bro!
Have you been able to unlink your time from money?

 

[manxlin]

Yeah, for the most part. I choose how many hours to work per week for the most part. But this bit is important. I first ventured into learning code purely as a means to an end (to earn alot).

But I wound up falling in love with being able to code and build anything I want. So I don't consider what I do work at all. I enjoy doing it.

Ouh! It has to be great to do what you want and also enjoy it, congratulations Gray!!

 

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[garyfritz]

It's important to understand the context for each language to make sense of these trends.

Thanks, outstanding post.

I've programmed in C, C++, Pascal (!), even assembler (!!), a bit of R and Python, and assorted other specialized languages. But I'm not really up on the language/application space these days. Your explanation was very helpful.

 

[Chicken_Dude]

Congrats! You did a great job learning a skill and then applying it.

1. Do you recommend learning HTML as a first language?

2. Did you build any websites/projects? Or how were you able to get hired without a college degree?