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GOLD! First Fastlane Month, Feels Amazing! $65,000+ Revenue Pre-tax

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This is fun for a short while...but over indulging this might not be in your best interests, long term.

I try to flip the script from "I'm doing well and think better than you" to "I'm doing well, how can I get you on my level?"

It's tough. Takes a lot of mental discipline, but is very rewarding long term.

Can't fault you for indulging, though ;)
Totally agree. It'll shift to that shortly I'm sure. Just the first 'I told you so' moment, so I had to enjoy it.
 

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WillHurtDontCare

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"I'm doing well, how can I get you on my level?"
This was the original meaning of Platonic friend - a friend you admire so much he inspires you to make yourself better.

(Not the vulgar contemporary version that effectively means eunuch)
 

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I said: "How much money will you make this year?"
Friend: "85k"
Me: "Cool, I made 65k this month".
Tone, context, & intention are important, but this is an expedient way to get not only that friend but an entire group of friends to hate you.
 

garyfritz

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I'm a RoR programmer + have worked as a CTO-level leader.
Whenever I am looking for jobs, my inbox fills up fast with recruiter messages. I often have to tell them I won't even look at their job unless it's over $200k/year, the ability to work fully remote all the time on my own schedule, fully paid healthcare, and an office budget.
And even then, they still want to interview/hire me.
That's amazing. If you look at Ruby and RoR, Ruby popularity spiked when Rails came out, but both have been drooping ever since:
28859

Now compare that to Python and JavaScript. Ruby and RoR are down at the bottom, but I'm not sure how that actually translates to comparative amount of work opportunities.
28860

Your success suggests there is still plenty of lucrative RoR work out there -- though I gotta think your results have more to do with your CTO-level abilities than with the RoR programmer market. I doubt a typical RoR freelancer would get many >$200k offers. If I was starting out, I would focus on Python. It seems to have a lot more stable organic growth path.
 

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That's amazing. If you look at Ruby and RoR, Ruby popularity spiked when Rails came out, but both have been drooping ever since:
View attachment 28859

Now compare that to Python and JavaScript. Ruby and RoR are down at the bottom, but I'm not sure how that actually translates to comparative amount of work opportunities.
View attachment 28860

Your success suggests there is still plenty of lucrative RoR work out there -- though I gotta think your results have more to do with your CTO-level abilities than with the RoR programmer market. I doubt a typical RoR freelancer would get many >$200k offers. If I was starting out, I would focus on Python. It seems to have a lot more stable organic growth path.

It's important to understand the context for each language to make sense of these trends.

In the past 15 years, data analysis is becoming more and more necessary. Making sense of huge amounts of data are becoming more important. More people are using software to solve data analysis and business intelligence problems.

Python is definitely the strongest language for understanding and analyzing data. They have robust, well supported libraries such as NumPy and Pandas that make this easier.

So if you want to be a data analysis specialist, definitely learn Python. This explains why Python is growing like crazy.

But if your needs are in the realm of web and app development, I'd argue that Python is a poor choice. Django is the biggest python-based framework in web development, but I don't know of any large company using Django, personally. There are a few, but I personally come across Django job posting rarely. In general, Python isn't great for web-enabled back ends. So if you want to create create web and mobile apps, Python isn't the right tool for the job, IMO, and is only one of many offerings for web technology in a very fragmented web ecosystem.

Ruby and Rails have been in decline because, while web and mobile applications are trending up, the amount of technologies that serve that market are increasing. You have serverless architectures, for example, as well as JavaScript-based Node.js and PHP-based Laravel really coming strong, with great support and ecosystems.

Rails is also becoming less relevant on the front end, with techs like React and Vue being better solutions for that. So, in general, Rails is still very relevant among many options (which include JS, Python, Ruby, PHP, etc.), there's just more options which is fragmenting the ecosystem.

That's why I suggest people start with a problem/area of expertise. By immersing yourself in that problem, you will be exposed to the relevant tech.

If you decided you wanted to analyze a shitton of AdWords data, for example, then you will see Python everywhere, and starting with Python will serve you incredibly well.

If you decided you want to make a web app, you won't come across Python as much as you would in the data science/ML space. In my experience, most people find themselves deciding between Express (Node.js), Laravel, RoR or a serverless solution + choosing between React, Vue or Angular.

The good news is, once you are competent with a language and technology in one area, the transfer to other languages and domains is super simple. I've programmed in C++, Java, Ruby, Python, R and JavaScript just to name a few...that's another reason I suggest starting with a problem, picking a tech, and just running with it. Learning new ones later is super simple after that.

EDIT: For clarity, I changed my wording in some places, since I inadvertently offended some Python enthusiasts; something I'd never do on purpose because I love Python and it's community
 
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garyfritz

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It's important to understand the context for each language to make sense of these trends.
Thanks, outstanding post.

I've programmed in C, C++, Pascal (!), even assembler (!!), a bit of R and Python, and assorted other specialized languages. But I'm not really up on the language/application space these days. Your explanation was very helpful.
 

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Thanks, outstanding post.

I've programmed in C, C++, Pascal (!), even assembler (!!), a bit of R and Python, and assorted other specialized languages. But I'm not really up on the language/application space these days. Your explanation was very helpful.
Glad I was helpful!

Your success suggests there is still plenty of lucrative RoR work out there -- though I gotta think your results have more to do with your CTO-level abilities than with the RoR programmer market. I doubt a typical RoR freelancer would get many >$200k offers. If I was starting out, I would focus on Python. It seems to have a lot more stable organic growth path.
I realize I forgot to touch on this and this is probably the most important part...

There's plenty of RoR opportunities. My leadership skills definitely help me stand out from the crowd, but everyone on my team right now is making $150k+ and have all the benefits I listed.

We are a senior-heavy team, and they have a few years of experience, but I have hired junior level developers for $80 who were at $120k within 12-18 months. They started on RoR, then branched into other things on the job (or got a new job that demanded a new tech, and they learned it within 1-2 months on the job).

There's a lot of opportunity out there for a stable, flexible income which is great when also pursuing your own business on the side. I can't think of why anyone wouldn't go this route in 2019, tbh.
 

garyfritz

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Well, not everybody is wired to be a code jockey. It takes an analytical mindset, a logical way of viewing problems, an ability to visualize fairly abstract solutions, hopefully an enjoyment of problem-solving. Any sharp person can learn to program simple stuff if they try, but not everybody is cut out to be a professional programmer. Just like not everybody is cut out to be a top-tier entrepreneur, or manager, or artist, or whatever.
 

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Congrats on your achievement!

Now its time to detach from the "trading time for money" life :D
 

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Hey man, congrats on how far you have come. I transitioned into coding myself and I know how hard it is to learn. Well done! I don't have much experience with web technologies and I'm learning in my free time right now. I may dabble in consulting at some point so I'll be following your progress.

But if your needs are in the realm of web and app development, I'd argue that Python is a poor choice. Django is the biggest python-based framework in web development, but I don't know of any large company using Django, personally. In general, Python isn't great for web-enabled back ends. So if you want to create create web and mobile apps, Python isn't the right tool for the job, IMO.
Notable websites built with django:
  • Instagram
  • Pinterest
  • Bitbucket
  • Firefox documentation and firefox dev site (MDN Web Docs)
  • Nasa.gov
  • theonion.com
  • Washington Post
Django is fine as a web framework. It's established and can handle many common back-end tasks with minimal developer effort, plus based on the above list clearly it can scale massively. If you learn Django you also learn python, which as you mentioned you can used for other things like data science, scripting, etc... Actually, I'd argue it's better to learn Django for all those reasons than to learn Rails. But ultimately the language/framework isn't super important since one you know one, you can learn others quickly if needed.
 

csalvato

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Notable websites built with django:
  • Instagram
  • Pinterest
  • Bitbucket
  • Firefox documentation and firefox dev site (MDN Web Docs)
  • Nasa.gov
  • theonion.com
  • Washington Post
Thanks, I was unaware of these built on Django.

The FF docs, the Onion and washpost all make sense since Django was made for the publishing industry. Didn't know about IG and Pinterest.

Thank you for correcting me!

But ultimately the language/framework isn't super important since one you know one, you can learn others quickly if needed.
Yeah, I'm very confident that if I got a job or contract that required Django I'd be contributing fully within 2 weeks.
 
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To add to the convo above. All my stuff is built on nodejs now and I will never go back. We can put out a solid v1 in weeks and I can hire just about any good js dev and they can hit the ground running after a few days of research.
 

Chicken_Dude

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Congrats! You did a great job learning a skill and then applying it.

1. Do you recommend learning HTML as a first language?

2. Did you build any websites/projects? Or how were you able to get hired without a college degree?
 

Imgal

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This is fun for a short while...but over indulging this might not be in your best interests, long term.

I try to flip the script from "I'm doing well and think better than you" to "I'm doing well, how can I get you on my level?"

It's tough. Takes a lot of mental discipline, but is very rewarding long term.

Can't fault you for indulging, though ;)
I love this! I think it's also a really important mindset to have for people who have money blocks and worry about being distanced from the people who aren't the high level earners you're hoping to be.
 
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Hey man, congrats on how far you have come. I transitioned into coding myself and I know how hard it is to learn. Well done! I don't have much experience with web technologies and I'm learning in my free time right now. I may dabble in consulting at some point so I'll be following your progress.
Thank you. Good luck on your journey.

Congrats! You did a great job learning a skill and then applying it.

1. Do you recommend learning HTML as a first language?

2. Did you build any websites/projects? Or how were you able to get hired without a college degree?
1. I do recommend learning HTML along with CSS first. They go hand in hand.
2. I built a couple of web-apps that I called 'side businesses' with the intent to launch which looking back on it now, I called it action-faking in previous threads, but I guess it wasn't. It was all apart of the journey up until this point.

I realized that not everything I do needs to be aimed at 'how can I make money from this?' It kind of poisons and clouds your mind from really creating awesome shit. (I can expand on that more if you want me to)

But to answer your second question... I'm going to create a small thread and link it back here once It's ready. Doing this because I feel like that's information many would want, and what I did, I think can be very helpful and I wouldn't want it to get buried pages deep in this one.
 

roguehillbilly

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So if you want to be a data analysis specialist, definitely learn Python. This explains why Python is growing like crazy.
You made a lot of claims that I think are inaccurate, not that it matters too much. I wouldn't say data science is the only reason python has been gaining rapid growth. The language is used in many, many disciplines and domains.

Flask and Django are awesome web frameworks and although they are not always only used for the frontend, they are extremely common back-end frameworks for many companies. It's pretty common to have one of the 'hot' frameworks like VueJS on the front end with a python backend.

It doesn't matter though, it all translates, as was said.


OP, congrats on your hard work, that's some awesome progress. I am curious more on the side income and takeaways you have there. How long did it take to build the dev shop up and what advice would you give someone wanting to follow the same steps? I am a developer already btw
 

csalvato

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You made a lot of claims that I think are inaccurate, not that it matters too much. I wouldn't say data science is the only reason python has been gaining rapid growth. The language is used in many, many disciplines and domains.

Flask and Django are awesome web frameworks and although they are not always only used for the frontend, they are extremely common back-end frameworks for many companies. It's pretty common to have one of the 'hot' frameworks like VueJS on the front end with a python backend.

It doesn't matter though, it all translates, as was said.


OP, congrats on your hard work, that's some awesome progress. I am curious more on the side income and takeaways you have there. How long did it take to build the dev shop up and what advice would you give someone wanting to follow the same steps? I am a developer already btw
Objectively speaking, python is less- or as-popular as most other web technologies. It’s one offering in a very fragmented ecosystem.

When it comes to big data, there are only two practical choices - R and Python; and python is more mature for production data applications.

Listen, I never said Python wasn’t used on the web, just that it’s not my first choice personally.

Sheesh.:happy:

EDIT: Because you're the second person to make a comment on this, I edited my original post for clarity.
 
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Benji90

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Objectively speaking, python is less- or as-popular as most other web technologies. It’s one offering in a very fragmented ecosystem.

When it comes to big data, there are only two practical choices - R and Python; and python is more mature for production data applications.

Listen, I never said Python wasn’t used on the web, just that it’s not my first choice personally.

Sheesh.:happy:
I mentioned this earlier in the thread, this is why I initially found it difficult to get started, Google is filled with programmers arguing which language is best etc and opinions get taken to extremes which makes it difficult for beginners (like me) to know where to start.
 

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roguehillbilly

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Objectively speaking, python is less- or as-popular as most other web technologies. It’s one offering in a very fragmented ecosystem.

When it comes to big data, there are only two practical choices - R and Python; and python is more mature for production data applications.

Listen, I never said Python wasn’t used on the web, just that it’s not my first choice personally.

Sheesh.:happy:

EDIT: Because you're the second person to make a comment on this, I edited my original post for clarity.
the only thing I take offense at is suggesting python is a poor choice or that it is not used in production. We’d agree on the other points. I think it’s important that anyone reading who isn’t well versed has an objective view.

I always revert to the viewpoint that the customer will never know or care about what you use, so use what you know or what let’s you move quickest. Languages are all tools at the end of the day.
 
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the only thing I take offense at is suggesting python is a poor choice or that it is not used in production. We’d agree on the other points. I think it’s important that anyone reading who isn’t well versed has an objective view.
I agree - the issue is it leads to indecision like below. I'm sure we can all agree, most programming languages are good for most things. Specialize if it requires specialization. It's like building a site like Wikipedia in React. Who would ever do that, what about Wikipedia needs Reactive components? Ya know?

I mentioned this earlier in the thread, this is why I initially found it difficult to get started, Google is filled with programmers arguing which language is best etc and opinions get taken to extremes which makes it difficult for beginners (like me) to know where to start.
Honestly, depends on your goal. If the goal is Wordpress related stuff - PHP will be good. If your goal is longer-term, job + side projects, anything you're most comfortable with.

I enjoy writing in Ruby, Rails (it speaks to my soul lol, I write it like I write sentences)

Others may like Python, PHP, Javascript, etc. For purely getting started, I'd pick Rails and not look back. (just my point of view)

Check out David Heinemeier Hansson (DHH) he created the Rails framework:

Why did David Heinemeier Hansson choose Ruby (over Python?) to build Rails? - Quora

For an LOL related exactly what we're talking about (devs arguing over their preferred language (tool)):

View: https://twitter.com/dhh/status/1034481397430251521?lang=en

Also, huge lol at the first reply to the thread:
28873

and for some Fastlane entrepreneurial money concepts:

DHH: The Day I Became a Millionaire
DHH & Chase Jarvis interview. Lot's of money and money philosophy talk in there.
 
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OP, congrats on your hard work, that's some awesome progress. I am curious more on the side income and takeaways you have there. How long did it take to build the dev shop up and what advice would you give someone wanting to follow the same steps? I am a developer already btw
My advice would be to focus on large jobs, especially if you have a job paying you well already. We got 1 contract that was 300k. (2 developers). That beats fighting for cheap work on upwork and having to do 39 projects just to get to the same level of revenue.

If it sounded like far too much work for what was being offered, I just didn't take it. I turned down 20k job the other day because the person wanted dual-platform mobile apps and a web app and the API to connect. Just not worth the headache.

You're better off finding jobs 50k or greater and simply not caring when you turn down 10k job. The only difference is, you can't turn down 10k if you jump off the bridge and have no plan otherwise and need the 10k.

Hope that helps, happy to expand.
 

Vanyka

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Thanks for posting this, your story is very inspiring! Rock on! :fistbump:

Congratulations on your success, it is SUPER AWESOME to see real people getting impressive results like this. Will definitely read your other post as well.

Also great to see fellow to-be-coders, as I am in the same boat as well :smile:
 

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Very inspiring post!

I’m also mainly self taught (JS stack) and have been freelancing while finishing up my CS degree.

The goal is basically to get a remote job while still taking on clients on the side.

This post and your recommendation of purely focusing on large deals spoke to my soul, especially since I’ve been hustling and bustling for $500-$2k projects.

Cheers
 
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Thanks for posting this, your story is very inspiring! Rock on! :fistbump:

Congratulations on your success, it is SUPER AWESOME to see real people getting impressive results like this. Will definitely read your other post as well.

Also great to see fellow to-be-coders, as I am in the same boat as well :smile:
They're out there, though some might not be too vocal. Stick around, the forum is helpful.

Very inspiring post!

I’m also mainly self-taught (JS stack) and have been freelancing while finishing up my CS degree.

The goal is basically to get a remote job while still taking on clients on the side.

This post and your recommendation of purely focusing on large deals spoke to my soul, especially since I’ve been hustling and bustling for $500-$2k projects.

Cheers
Yes, ughhh soul-sucking to work for 500-2k. Developers always undervalue themselves because they're trying to compete with devs in other regions of the world where market dynamics are vastly different.

This is going to lead to a race to the bottom on pricing and people seeking developers who just think most things should cost $2k and be done in 3 weeks.

Edit: It already has lead to a race to the bottom, it's just going to get worse.
 

lobo

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After completing the Main WebDEV skills (HTML,CSS, JAVA), how do I decide on the next languange to learn?

I understand that a lot of languages can be used to build the same things as others, but how would you narrow it down. I guess based on use and demand in the market?
 
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After completing the Main WebDEV skills (HTML,CSS, JAVA), how do I decide on the next languange to learn?

I understand that a lot of languages can be used to build the same things as others, but how would you narrow it down. I guess based on use and demand in the market?
If you already know HTML/CSS and Java, you're more than capable of building web-apps at that point. Technically also mobile apps for android.

The main thing is figuring out what you want to do with that knowledge and attack that viciously. Do you...

1) Want a job as an engineer and will also work on side softwares until something gets rolling?
If so, then start applying. You can certainly find roles to pay you as a java engineer.

2) Want to focus on building some product to sell?
Well, do that, but realize that just selling any random thing for the sake of a quick buck likely won't work as you'll get bored rather quickly and may not see it through to the end.

MJ was able to do something like limos.com because he already knew about Limos from being a driver and saw the need and was able to scale it out.

The point being, don't pick some random-a$$ industry like forum software for underwater basket weavers, unless you yourself are an underwater basket-weaver and know there to be a huge market ripe for picking. Contrived example, but hopefully the point came across.

Personal opinion, since I believe you mentioned you were young, I'd get a job paying you 80-120k depending on what you can find, bank that money while building something on your own. Nothing wrong with that and your future self will thank you.
 

lobo

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My focus is on learning languages that will have job Stability over the next 5-10 years and skills that I can use for my entrepreneurial ventures.

So my purpose to learn coding is to

1. Get a stable job to provide decent lifestyle & cashflow while I work on my fast lane ventures

2.Possibly build apps/software to sell in the future

3. Maybe even start a development firm one day?

The thing that confuses me is I See dev jobs looking for people with HTML/CSS/JS and even more (php, node.js, react,angular)...

Should I just focus on the first three and then add on as I go?
 

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