Fed Up With Your Country? Where Is Left to Go?

[MTF]

So I am in lockdown again.
There is no end in sight to this madness.
This stopped being about health a very long time ago.
19 cases statewide, and the ENTIRE STATE is in lockdown.
We have been locked down more than anywhere else in the entire world.
My friends are losing their businesses left and right over this stuff, it's actually not even surprising at this point.

And it looks like this time it might not be another "snap" lockdown but another miserable lockdown for weeks on end.

I hope it won't be the same thing again in Europe this fall considering relatively high vaccination rates (with the UK showing decoupling of cases and deaths) but at this point everything is possible.

 

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[MTF]

Then I think, f*ck it, it's my country. I've been here almost 50 years and I'm not going anywhere.

What would it take for you to go elsewhere? At what point would the UK being "your" country cease to be an important factor?

 

[Timmy C]

And it looks like this time it might not be another "snap" lockdown but another miserable lockdown for weeks on end.

I hope it won't be the same thing again in Europe this fall considering relatively high vaccination rates (with the UK showing decoupling of cases and deaths) but at this point everything is possible.

They are saying 5 days here in Melbourne, but we all know what that really means!
2 Weeks at minimum.

 

[Tony100]

I dont think any government will write laws to put people into prison for not taking vaccine.

Philippines president Duterte: ‘You choose, Covid vaccine or I will have you jailed’

In Britain an emergency security law was introduced in 1939 requiring citizens to carry identification papers at all times because of world war 2. However the socialist government decided to continue the requirement for years after the war ended. In 1950 a man named Harry Wilcock was the last person to be prosecuted for refusing to carry identification papers. Wilcock appealed against the charges and it turned into a historic court case. The law was repealed in 1952 after the socialists were voted out.

I mention this because it is an excellent example showing that governments rarely give powers back to citizens. If it were not for the Harry Wilcock case it is unlikely the national registration act would have been repealed. I have no doubts that vaccine passports would be a slippery slope away from liberty, particularly with how modern technology allows data to be gathered so easily - check out China's social credit system.

My business is 50% down since covid started and I can't see sales improving. Personally I'm focusing on paying off business debt, holding lower stock levels then building a cash reserve. Within 6 months debts will be payed off and within 18 months I should have $100k in cash. Not a huge amount but enough to start something else or potentially relocate. The big advantage I see of being in a country like the UK/USA is the sheer size of the economy though I'll see how the next 6-12 months plays out. I'm convinced the UK will be back in lockdown over the winter due to some new variant and that the economy will then get even worse as the government starting pulling back on all this extra spending.

 

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[Madame Peccato]

They are saying 5 days here in Melbourne, but we all know what that really means!
2 Weeks at minimum.

Just two weeks to flatten the curve.

Like a year and a half ago.

 

[SharpeningBlade]

 

[SharpeningBlade]

Just two weeks to flatten the curve.

Like a year and a half ago.

Math is hard. Thats why they became politicians. Let's have some compassion...

 

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[Timmy C]

Leaving sounds attractive.
The thought of not seeing my family again is too sad to consider it at this point, considering the border rules in Australia, i don't know if I'll be able to get back in.

 

[MTF]

A country can survive bad politicians, but it cannot survive the legion of idiots who continue to vote them in.

When government proxies control the media, you control the lemmings.

At this point, if Facebook or CNN told the populace to stay home forever because it would help "the children", the majority wouldn't question it. And if you didn't comply, you'd be branded an "X" (enter some derogatory label here).

This is why I think that some level of civil disobedience (or at least thinking for yourself and interpreting the rules differently in case they're stupid) is necessary for a country to prosper. Otherwise you become a country of sheep where the "leaders" tell you what to do even though there's no clear consensus (or any evidence) that you should do it.

But the cynic in me thinks that there are no places and cultures where some level of disobedience is ingrained. Instead, it's cyclical. The population of one country needs to go full sheep mode before finally starting to doubt their enlightened leaders only to repeat the cycle again in a decade or two.

That's why some of the best countries currently might be the ones that still remember tyrannical times and don't want to repeat it (for a generation or two...).

 

[MTF]

Leaving sounds attractive.
The thought of not seeing my family again is too sad to consider it at this point, considering the border rules in Australia, i don't know if I'll be able to get back in.

I saw a letter someone uploaded online to show how to beg the Australian government to let you leave. I don't think I can repost it here as it's on a private forum but it was terrible.

Basically, the woman was asking the government to let her and her husband leave for Canada (they're both Canadian citizens, which makes it even crazier despite, I assume, being both Australian and Canadian). She gave a few reasons and also acknowledged that she may not be able to get back anytime soon. I'm not sure if they let them leave. Either way, it was unreal to read it.

There's an entire thread on that forum with Australians discussing how to leave the country. There are also at least two big groups on Facebook (here's one, here's another) with people exchanging their experiences trying to leave the country.

If people think they have it bad because they have some restrictions or certain places are only for the vaxinated, consider that you can't leave your country at all. You're a prisoner, quite literally.

Stuff like this was common in communist Poland with few people being allowed to leave the country unless you had a good reason or worked with the government as an informant or otherwise had friends there. Those who managed to escape the country had to take crazy risks and/or sacrifice a lot (like the possibility of not seeing your family ever again).

 

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[Timmy C]

This is why I think that some level of civil disobedience (or at least thinking for yourself and interpreting the rules differently in case they're stupid) is necessary for a country to prosper. Otherwise you become a country of sheep where the "leaders" tell you what to do even though there's no clear consensus (or any evidence) that you should do it.

But the cynic in me thinks that there are no places and cultures where some level of disobedience is ingrained. Instead, it's cyclical. The population of one country needs to go full sheep mode before finally starting to doubt their enlightened leaders only to repeat the cycle again in a decade or two.

That's why some of the best countries currently might be the ones that still remember tyrannical times and don't want to repeat it (for a generation or two...).

That can be summed up in two words:

F*ck Australia.

 

[YanC]

So I am in lockdown again.
There is no end in sight to this madness.
This stopped being about health a very long time ago.
19 cases statewide, and the ENTIRE STATE is in lockdown.
We have been locked down more than anywhere else in the entire world.
My friends are losing their businesses left and right over this stuff, it's actually not even surprising at this point.

For a handful of cases? The virus isn't out of control, but the government certainly is.

GTFO big cities. Same shit happening here in France. We've been in lockdown / curfew ever since November. But here in the countryside, you can not give a shit if you want to. I've been going out everyday and trained BJJ a la Fight Club all the time while contact sports have only been allowed again since late June (and will be prohibited again in September).

 

[Timmy C]

This is why I think that some level of civil disobedience (or at least thinking for yourself and interpreting the rules differently in case they're stupid) is necessary for a country to prosper. Otherwise you become a country of sheep where the "leaders" tell you what to do even though there's no clear consensus (or any evidence) that you should do it.

But the cynic in me thinks that there are no places and cultures where some level of disobedience is ingrained. Instead, it's cyclical. The population of one country needs to go full sheep mode before finally starting to doubt their enlightened leaders only to repeat the cycle again in a decade or two.

That's why some of the best countries currently might be the ones that still remember tyrannical times and don't want to repeat it (for a generation or two...).

You would think Germany would-be a good place to go if that's the case.

However, I was speaking to a friend of mine who I met when I lived their for a year and he said that it's the same story there.

People going along with everything and not questioning anything.

 

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[MTF]

You would think Germany would-be a good place to go if that's the case.

That's too far off in the past. Think Eastern Europe or the Balkans.

 

[Antti]

That's too far off in the past. Think Eastern Europe or the Balkans.

I just came back from a short holiday in Estonia. Everything was completely normal there, like a trip back to 2019. I don't think I saw a single mask during five days.

My home country of Finland hasn’t had many hard Covid-related restrictions either but people here love to follow rules so many people still wear masks in stores although it’s just a recommendation.

 

[Mattie]

The problem with anarchy, is that it creates a vacuum, and that vacuum always ends up being filled by the worst and most evil people around. Yes, I mean the governmental vacuum.

Then you start the whole cycle over -> despots and dictators -> poverty and death -> fight for freedom -> get too comfy -> vote for too much stuff that

Here in the Netherlands would be nice to have a sailboat about right now. I'm transforming possibly into a real Navy Seal if the water comes closer. 35 miles away. Germany and Belgium too!

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EhFS6Y9ZPwY

 

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[Kak]

“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship. The average age of the world's greatest civilizations has been 200 years. These nations have progressed through this sequence: From bondage to spiritual faith; From spiritual faith to great courage; From courage to liberty; From liberty to abundance; From abundance to selfishness; From selfishness to apathy; From apathy to dependence; From dependence back into bondage.”

-Alexander Frazier Tytler

The USA is living on borrowed time at this point.

So if I were to pinpoint where the USA is right now on this cycle, we are past selfishness, we are past apathy, we are embracing dependence like never before. Bondage comes next.

Cuba on the other hand… In bondage, dreams of better lives, and are testing the waters with “great courage.” Liberty is what’s next for Cuba. Got to love the location!

 

[StrikingViper69]

Has anyone watched Jordan Peterson's 2017 lecture series on YouTube to do with personality?

He covers a whole range of topics.

One interesting tidbit, was that when people are faced with infectious disease, they want an authoritarian regime. It's a very strong personality.. shift? trait? Tendency? that most people have.

 

[Roli]

What would it take for you to go elsewhere? At what point would the UK being "your" country cease to be an important factor?

Not sure really. I guess if open fascism was on the cards (which I don't think we're too far away from). Then I'd probably look to leave and go somewhere Spanish speaking maybe.

 

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[MJ DeMarco]

I'm betting the objective is to turn vaxinated citizens against the unvacinnated, transferring the blame of lockdowns from the politicians to citizens who want nothing to do with a rushed vaccine.

The media will convince the sheep that the lockdowns are to blame on the "anti-vaxxers," not politicians.

What's going on in the world is like watching a low-IQ prime time movie on NBC, except it is real.

 

[Madame Peccato]

I'm betting the objective is to turn vaxinated citizens against the unvacinnated, transferring the blame of lockdowns from the politicians to citizens who want nothing to do with a rushed vaccine.

The media will convince the sheep that the lockdowns are to blame on the "anti-vaxxers," not politicians.

What's going on in the world is like watching a low-IQ prime time movie on NBC, except it is real.

It's already happening here. People are applauding France's "hard lockdown" for the unvaxinated. They are asking for the Italian government to implement the same measures. It's chilling and appalling at the same time.

 

[socaldude]

The media will convince the sheep that the lockdowns are to blame on the "anti-vaxxers," not politicians.

Yeah, and mix it together with 20 years experience and socialization of fake “education” ready to pounce on whatever these corrupt media entities spew out.

One interesting tidbit, was that when people are faced with infectious disease, they want an authoritarian regime. It's a very strong personality.. shift? trait? Tendency? that most people have.

I would bet my money on this. These are powerful drivers. Authority, punishment, “right” or “wrong”.

 

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[StrikingViper69]

I would bet my money on this. These are powerful drivers. Authority, punishment, “right” or “wrong”.

From what I understood, the driver was more "we want to be saved from this horrible thing", and an authoritarian government was perceived as doing that better.

Whether people are consciously deciding "we want an authoritarian government", or they are attracted to the policies of an authoritarian government without thinking about whether those policies are authoritarian or not, I don't know.

 

[Deleted85763]

Left Canada for Mexico back in November. When I told my family that I wanted to get out before they closed the borders again they said I was crazy. Not too long after I left all flights to Mexico and the Caribbean were cancelled until May I believe.

Although @GPM and I have different views of Quintana Roo (maybe I'd feel differently if I had a family) I am really enjoying my life here in Playa del Carmen. Sure, if you go down the walking street you're going to get harassed to buy trinkets and drugs, but I enjoy a good sales pitch. Just say no gracias and keep walking.

If you're going into a big corporate store, they require a mask. As you get out of the more touristy and populated areas, people care less about them. In Bacalar last week most restaurants and stores didn't ask for it.

The only time I've dealt with crime since I've been here was when I was renting a car. I went into Wal Mart for 20 minutes, came out and the lock on my door had been popped. Now, the cops said that some rental companies will go around and look for their cars to do damage to and collect cash. My friend here told me that thieves here won't mess with any locals vehicles (rental cars have obvious stickers) for fear of messing with the wrong person's ride and getting popped. So I just bought my own, haven't had any issues even though it kinda sticks out.

When I lived in Viet Nam I got used to always having cash in my pocket for when you get pulled over. 99% of the time the cops just want a bribe to go away. Pretty much the same deal here.

A few months back I flew to Guadalajara with my girlfriend so that we could drive her car back here (24 hour drive) over half the country. Stayed on the toll highways and even drove at night some times, had no issues.

If you keep to yourself and just don't be an a**hole to locals, you'll be fine. I'd rather have to deal with some organized crime than the big-time organized criminals (government) back where I'm from.

Other people commenting have a good point in that these restrictions and the government overreach will eventually get everywhere, but I feel like Mexicans don't take too kindly when politicians treat them poorly, and there are plenty of instances of the people burning down their houses, dragging them through the streets throwing rocks at them. The revolutionary spirit is still very alive in Chiapas and I've been told by my employees that there are whole communities where they have their own currencies and they govern themselves, the state government doesn't even try coming in.

Maybe in the end I'll be wrong and the gov here will clamp down, but I sure am glad I'm here and not back home. Been having some of th99% of the time the cops just want a bribe to go away. Pretty much the same deal here.e best times of my life here.

"99% of the time the cops just want a bribe to go away. Pretty much the same deal here."

That's the main issue with getting the world to the best place it can be for all. We need the police and military to be highly professional, trusted and caring people. They will not follow the "constitutions" but the fundamental right of everyone - Do whatever you want as long as it doesn't violate the rights of anyone else. Help your neighbor, share good information, create your own life without interference from no one. That's what all the protests in 2020 and 2021 were all about. Let's tip it into the next stage of social evolution.

 

[2am2am2am]

I'm betting the objective is to turn vaxinated citizens against the unvacinnated, transferring the blame of lockdowns from the politicians to citizens who want nothing to do with a rushed vaccine.

The media will convince the sheep that the lockdowns are to blame on the "anti-vaxxers," not politicians.

What's going on in the world is like watching a low-IQ prime time movie on NBC, except it is real.

This is my biggest concern! The people are going to agree with restricting the unvaxinated’s freedoms/create a two tier society.

Please can someone answer my previous question. Would you still move country if you’re not fastlane yet??

 

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[Contrarian]

This is my biggest concern! The people are going to agree with restricting the unvaxinated’s freedoms/create a two tier society.

Please can someone answer my previous question. Would you still move country if you’re not fastlane yet??

If you created an account here just to ask the question, I'll wager you already know the answer. Fortune favours the bold, especially in times of crisis.

 

[Kak]

Please can someone answer my previous question. Would you still move country if you’re not fastlane yet??

Yes. Especially if you aren’t.

Im on the flip side of that. I have stuff going on. I’m juggling several things that I need to line up before it makes sense to leave.

If I had just started in a better country, I’d already be in another country and not dreading a move, even if it’s what I want.

I’m not moving to retire, I’m moving to build faster.

 

[theag]

Please can someone answer my previous question. Would you still move country if you’re not fastlane yet??

I can't leave because I can't afford the exit tax.

You either have to do it when you have nothing or already enough to use advanced tax structures.

Everything in the middle, you are F*cked and stuck.

Don't repeat my mistakes.

 

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[Train]

I'm seeing the vaxinated vs unvaxinated dynamic at work already.

At my work, you have to wear a mask if you don't sign a paper saying you took the vaccine upon returning to work. You have to show proof when asked as well.

So anyone who walks around wearing a mask is letting everyone else know they're likely unvaxinated.

I might as well wear a scarlet letter lol.

I'm not excited about my coworkers giving me dirty looks.

 

[SharpeningBlade]

I'm betting the objective is to turn vac

ated citizens against the unvacated, transferring the blame of lockdowns from the politicians to citizens who want nothing to do with a rushed vacane.

The media will convince the sheep that the lockdowns are to blame on the "anti-vapers," not politicians.

What's going on in the world is like watching a low-IQ prime time movie on NBC, except it is real.

Yes they most definitely already are.

Specifically, 'experts' are saying that unvacated people are 'variant factories'

When in actuality, you don't need a degree in virology to tell you that isn't true.

jj just had a recall on sunscream because it has carcinogenic ingredients. I guess the "conpiracy theor ts" were right about that after all these years huh? And that was fda approved! And now the same company is producing an injectable! And it will be fda approved also.

I just really pray that this doesn't end up killing or seriously harm a good percentage of the people who take it.