Down the Drain...

[Forza]

I just don't know what to do with myself
I just don't know what to do with myself
La la la la laaa....

My fast food business, which is in a terrible location is growing super slowly, and clearly losing money.

I know cafes, but basic food costs are rather high.
I have a rich relative I could partner with... Maybe.
I'm not particularly passionate about any hobbies.
Everything you could want is being supplied by a bunch of businesses already.
I don't have high tech expertise to create something people would want, e.g. teleportation, ultra fast internet, artificial intelligence, etc.

Any ideas would be greatly appreciated

 

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[MJ DeMarco]

Question ... you mentioned that you have a "rich relative" .... what made your relative rich?

 

[MrPink]

"Everything you could want is being supplied by a bunch of businesses already."

You would be suprised as what I want
cure for cancer, malaria? synthetic heprin analog? 32 inch flat screen for 20 dollars?

 

[bflbob]

If the business is in a terrible location (I assume you mean "on a side street", not "in the sewage treatment plant"), then your chances of being spotted by "traffic" are slim. That means you need to cater to locals, not to thru-traffic.

What can you do to bring locals to your spot?

Free soda when the high school team wins?
Join in fund-raisers with local groups?
Hang pictures of the locals on the walls?
Regular, nightly specials where the locals can look forward to Friday's Chocolate Sardine Fritters?

Do something that helps the community, and they'll usually help back.

 

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[MattThomas]

Everything you could want is being supplied by a bunch of businesses already.

Like Mr. Pink said, you'd be surprised. Not only is there plenty of unmet demand, a lot of what is supplied to consumers by businesses is substandard.

Think about processes you can improve upon or things customers are unhappy about. Is there an industry rife with poor customer service? Could you enter this industry and offer absolutely outstanding customer service?

Instead of thinking about where your hobbies lie, consider what type of work you enjoy and what type of roles you would like to fill.

Think about where there is a lot of demand right now. Chances are there is plenty of room for you to enter. Even better is if you enter into an industry with a lot of consumer demand and market to a specific niche.

Good luck. Success usually doesn't come easy so don't get down on yourself.

 

[bflbob]

If you are in a lousy location, how about fast-food delivery?

Better yet, make a batch of burgers, fries, etc., and go knock on doors.

We used to have a lady who came to our office 1-2 days a week.
She brought freshmade turnovers. Apple. Cherry. With frosting.
She sold them for $2-3 bucks, and walked away with some nice tips.

All she did was make our lives easier in a way we'd never known we needed.

 

[bflbob]

I have a rich relative I could partner with... Maybe.

And what about this sales pitch would make him want to partner?

My fast food business, which is in a terrible location is growing super slowly, and clearly losing money.

 

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[andviv]

OK bob, great advice here. I was about to suggest the same... delivery.

Your advice about catering to the locals is very good as well.

oh, and speaking of catering... how about offering catering?

 

[Runum]

Forza, I'm confused. You started this thread 2 months ago:

http://www.thefastlanetomillions.co...b-m/17900-how-would-you-market-lemon-win.html

There were 17 responses and lots of suggestions. Not one time did you respond. Not one thank you, not one "I'll give it a shot", nothing, nada.

Now you start another thread and you have 6-7 responses and more suggestions. Again, no response.

I'm really trying to be nice about this but can you help us out a little? Come on man, give us something. More details, what you have tried, what has worked, what hasn't worked? Something, anything?:ears:

 

[Forza]

Forza, I'm confused. You started this thread 2 months ago:

http://www.thefastlanetomillions.co...b-m/17900-how-would-you-market-lemon-win.html

There were 17 responses and lots of suggestions. Not one time did you respond. Not one thank you, not one "I'll give it a shot", nothing, nada.

Now you start another thread and you have 6-7 responses and more suggestions. Again, no response.

I'm really trying to be nice about this but can you help us out a little? Come on man, give us something. More details, what you have tried, what has worked, what hasn't worked? Something, anything?:ears:

Ok, sorry. I'm a private kind of a guy

We have a much cleaner shop than our next door competition.
Our service is great.
We have extras available, like napkins, etc.
We get each order right.
Our staff look pretty ok.
Our food is awesome.

We did a glossy, full colour 10,000, a4 sized mail drop with a 20% off your order offer. Result - About 0.1%. Makes me wonder if it's worth continuing! If there was anything that was going to give us a huge boost, that would have been it.

We're on a busy roundabout. So many cars, so few customers. Our grubby competition is much busier. Their position is a bit better, and their portion sizes are much bigger for a cheaper price.

My rich relative is a general practitioner.

Thanks

 

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[Kung Fu Steve]

We have a much cleaner shop than our next door competition.
Our service is great.
We have extras available, like napkins, etc.
We get each order right.
Our staff look pretty ok.
Our food is awesome.

It sounds like you gave my ideas a lot of thought! I am flattered! Let's figure out a way to make this work. Even if you do want to get out of that business this will not only teach you valuable lessons on how to grow a business, but it will make it ripe for sale if you want to find something else to do.

We did a glossy, full colour 10,000, a4 sized mail drop with a 20% off your order offer. Result - About 0.1%. Makes me wonder if it's worth continuing! If there was anything that was going to give us a huge boost, that would have been it.

I guess we need to figure out some more effective advertising! For my business direct mailing works great. Maybe you could stick with the coupon idea but put it in a leaflet with other restaurant coupons. If you can envision those flyers you get for Dominoes that is a UV coated sheet of paper with coupons on it. Maybe you can get on the back of one of those?

I know you don't want to reveal (and probably shouldn't) what the name is, but maybe you can let us know if it is a popular chain (i.e. McDonalds) or a new start up?

Quizno's always has some dumb kid dressed up as a cup waving at people on the highway. I think that idea was brought up in the other thread. As stupid as it sounds, it gets people thinking about your product.

If it IS a big chain, what help can you get from the franchisor? What resources do they have? I think too many times we get stuck on our own "great" ideas. I know I do. Every now and then I have to pinch myself if business isn't going how I want it to and figure out what I have done in the past to make it work. Are there other restaruants in your chain that have a similar situation? Or is there a similar restaraunt that was in the situation?

We're on a busy roundabout. So many cars, so few customers. Our grubby competition is much busier. Their position is a bit better, and their portion sizes are much bigger for a cheaper price.

So tons of traffic... Maybe a little yard sign that points in the direction towards the shop?

Free samples out on the street?

What does your competition do so much better? Are they a national chain and you're not? Is there a way to position your food as healthier than theirs since their portions are larger?

Just remember everyone here is willing to help, you just have to do two things:

1.) Listen

2.) Take action

... and one more thing.. Take action! DO SOMETHING, even if it's wrong, at least you figured out one more thing that didn't work! The "failure" with the mail drop isn't so bad, you found out what the response was. It could either be bcause the Ad sucked or that form of advertising just ain't gonna cut it

 

[Kung Fu Steve]

Oh and P.S.

If you're looking to invent something new, I could use a device that has a girl's age displayed on their forehead. That'd keep me out of trouble at the mall ha ha

 

[Double D]

1. Pretty waitresses in skimpy clothes
2. Massages
3. Free anything
4. Better advice than this.

 

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[fanocks2003]

I just don't know what to do with myself
I just don't know what to do with myself
La la la la laaa....

My fast food business, which is in a terrible location is growing super slowly, and clearly losing money.

I know cafes, but basic food costs are rather high.
I have a rich relative I could partner with... Maybe.
I'm not particularly passionate about any hobbies.
Everything you could want is being supplied by a bunch of businesses already.
I don't have high tech expertise to create something people would want, e.g. teleportation, ultra fast internet, artificial intelligence, etc.

Any ideas would be greatly appreciated

Take yourself out of the loop is the starting point. The second point is to create brand and a brand promise (focus on a niche). The third part is to bring in an interim manager as CEO and let him create some structure out of it.

If you don't have the money to hire an interim manager, then contact a corporate finance company and have them find you a financial, silent partner (maybe your "relative"). Look at your company and have it valued by the corporate finance company before raising finance (the higher the pre-money value the more you hold after financing).

When you have done this, you can still gain, but have no real operative role in the business. I think both you and the business would gain from doing so.

 

[Forza]

Our business is a new start-up.
We will try large ads with a different offer, in the local paper next.
We seem to cater to people with more money than our competition's customers a couple of shops away.
Our competition sells cheap food, i.e. a lower gross profit.
Getting an investor in at this stage would probably be difficult. We are still trying to prove our business is commercially viable. So I don't think an investor would want to build 20 more yet.

 

[Kung Fu Steve]

I've been getting into the details and the nit-picky stuff.

Maybe we can talk like fanocks likes to. The bigger picture.

How will you know if your company is viable?

Does that community really want the higher priced food? Or do they want the cheap crap down the street?

If they DO want the cheap crap, would you be willing to "play the game" for now so you can actually make the income and profits to realize your final dream? Some might think of this as 'selling out' or whatever. But maybe it's what you need to get started... There are several examples of companies starting and selling stuff they really don't care to sell only to release the product they really cared about later.

 

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[michaelscheuren]

When Dominos started offering their new sandwiches in my town last year, they went to a few businesses in town(including a couple of radio stations) and asked the workers if they wanted a free lunch/ sandwich. Maybe you could do something like that, bring your luch special etc. to a couple of select businesses. They get a free lunch and you might get some free advertising by word of mouth (especially if it's a radio station).

You could also try to cater to a local factory at lunch time. I know at my job, we have a different place bring in lunch Monday - Friday. One of the places is just a small sandwich/icecream shop. They offer 3 different kinds of sandwiches or a hamburger/ cheeseburger and a cup of soup (2 different kinds to choose from) for $5-$6. They probably sell 200-300 lunches each time they come and they come at least twice a month. They are only there for an hour and a half too. Just my .02 in trying to help. I hope it works out for you!!:cheers:

Michael.

 

[camski]

Our business is a new start-up.
We will try large ads with a different offer, in the local paper next.
We seem to cater to people with more money than our competition's customers a couple of shops away.
Our competition sells cheap food, i.e. a lower gross profit.
Getting an investor in at this stage would probably be difficult. We are still trying to prove our business is commercially viable. So I don't think an investor would want to build 20 more yet.

Since i am in the foodservice business, let me ask a few questions and see if I can help.

1. are you a chain or independent restaurant?
2. who is your broadline supplier?
3. what is your food cost % as it relates to sales
4. what is your labor % as it relates to sales (include mgmt)
5. what are your top 3 marketing avenues?
6. do you have a value menu (.99 items)
7. how often do you do a food inventory
8. do you do everything from "scratch", "speed scratch" or further processed?
9. what are you known for? What makes you stand out from the comp?

If you cant sum up why you are better than the comp, or what sets you apart in two sentences you will lose people. Be different, be innovative! Some of the best ideas are stolen ones.

 

[Double D]

My first post was suppose to be humorous, guess it didnt work.....I think that people today are thinking healthy. If you havent targeted the healthy mindset you probably should. You may need a whole seperate healthy menu. And then there are still those who are fastenated with things like "The worlds biggest burger" or something that is out of the ordinary. With word of mouth being the best advertising you need something that everyone talks about like "wow, have you ever seen the size of the shrimp salad at FORZAS!! You need to check it out! Hang a sign outside that says HOME OF THE WORLDS BIGGEST SHRIMP SALAD. Also how much time have you given your business to succeed before you are forced to close the doors? Surely you have an exit strategy in place. Another thing that I did was to sponsor the local little league baseball teams in the area and they put your business on their uniforms and hang a banner at their games. Good luck...

 

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[camski]

My first post was suppose to be humorous, guess it didnt work.....I think that people today are thinking healthy. If you havent targeted the healthy mindset you probably should. You may need a whole seperate healthy menu. And then there are still those who are fastenated with things like "The worlds biggest burger" or something that is out of the ordinary. With word of mouth being the best advertising you need something that everyone talks about like "wow, have you ever seen the size of the shrimp salad at FORZAS!! You need to check it out! Hang a sign outside that says HOME OF THE WORLDS BIGGEST SHRIMP SALAD. Also how much time have you given your business to succeed before you are forced to close the doors? Surely you have an exit strategy in place. Another thing that I did was to sponsor the local little league baseball teams in the area and they put your business on their uniforms and hang a banner at their games. Good luck...

In all honesty, people have been saying that people are starting to think healthy for years. The numbers relaly dont play that out. At least in the US. People think with their wallets. Right now Mcdonalds is on fire and it is mainly due to their .99 menu. KFC is now starting their own .99 menu. The US is fat, and getting fatter because cheaper cuisine is by nature "not healthy". It is full of binders and fillers that cheapen it. MSG, SOY, Carrageenans, high fructose corn syrup and sodium and water pumps are all ways to cheapen food that are not "healthy". An example of what I am talking about would be using canned peaches in syrup vs fresh peaches. Trust me nothing real health about canned peaches.
Having a perceived healthy menu (turkey burgers , salads etc) is not a bad idea but truly healthy stuff costs more and most folks are not willing to pay for it. Although there are certain parts of Cali that and other high income areas that go against this grain.

 

[Double D]

This may be true, but how many people do you know order a "diet" coke with their double cheeseburger? Why? They believe its helping them be healthy. Most people order a salad and then pour on the high calorie dressing and justify it saying they are eating healthy. I think its more of a perception that they are eating healthy rather than actually eating healthy food. There are those who are truely looking for something healthy at every meal and having some of those items will help. Heck if people werent worried about being healthy whan why is the vitamin industry thriving? Just a thought...

 

[Kung Fu Steve]

This may be true, but how many people do you know order a "diet" coke with their double cheeseburger? Why? They believe its helping them be healthy. Most people order a salad and then pour on the high calorie dressing and justify it saying they are eating healthy. I think its more of a perception that they are eating healthy rather than actually eating healthy food. There are those who are truely looking for something healthy at every meal and having some of those items will help. Heck if people werent worried about being healthy whan why is the vitamin industry thriving? Just a thought...

Ignorance is the key word. People don't really know what's healthy so they believe advertising. Even with 0 calories and 0 "sugar" diet drinks filled with things such as aspertine ends up being more hurtful to your health than the real thing.

Belief and Fact in business is not always hand-in-hand. You can offer someone a salad all day long and tell them about the health benefits of it versus a cheeseburger but they heard on TV that cheeseburgers are a good source of protein. Well, sure, it has protein in it... but the fat, cholesterol, and other crap in it make it not-so-good for you.

I personally believe the one thing we can't do when giving advice is to give opinions. We should look at hard numbers, not just say "I believe you should have a healthy menu." We should look at the facts. Is the more successful business down the street using a healthy menu? If not, what ARE they doing?

camski brings out the point that we need to look at. What are the demographics in the area? What are the hard numbers? Being someone in the food industry I think his advice is best so far. Take a look at those numbers. I can talk about customer service and atmosphere all day long, but those things improve and sustain business, not necessarily jump start it.

As far as the vitamin industry that again is mostly ignorance. People believe taking a pill will make them healthy. It's my opinion that 90% of the supplements and vitamins you get are just expensive urine. Meaning they vitamins and nutrients in these are just peed out.

If people really knew what vitamins and minerals and supplements were about they would be far more selective about what they use and take.

Same thing with fast food, if they really knew what was healthy, they wouldn't be eating fast food. :smxB:

I mean no offense by any of this, just wanted to get clear about some things so we can help Forza make some real progress.

 

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[Double D]

Well now, I get it. Someone starts a thread and says "any ideas will help" and now its gotta have the cold hard facts. Forgive me for interupting the professional advisor thread. Ill study up on anything else I reply to from now on. I would add that the poster should in fact ask that only food service professionals respond so not to confuse any of us ignorant people. Good day.........

 

[Kung Fu Steve]

Well now, I get it. Someone starts a thread and says "any ideas will help" and now its gotta have the cold hard facts. Forgive me for interupting the professional advisor thread. Ill study up on anything else I reply to from now on. I would add that the poster should in fact ask that only food service professionals respond so not to confuse any of us ignorant people. Good day.........

Definitely not what I meant. I apologize if it came off that way. You do have a valid point, and I am no expert by any means. We have had a previous thread about Forza's business and we talked about several of those things already.

We all value your input Double D, including me!

 

[bflbob]

Well now, I get it. Someone starts a thread and says "any ideas will help" and now its gotta have the cold hard facts. Forgive me for interupting the professional advisor thread. Ill study up on anything else I reply to from now on. I would add that the poster should in fact ask that only food service professionals respond so not to confuse any of us ignorant people. Good day.........

Double D...I don't think his post was trying to attack you, just discussing it further.

Sometimes these posts get read with a bit of attitude in them that was never really intended. It is hard to read the emotions of the writer.

At any rate, your advice is just as valid as anyone's. Keep on posting.:thankyousign:

 

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[Double D]

Apology accepted. I have belonged to a few sites to include RDPD. I quit there due to so many nay-sayers and the book readers that wouldnt take action. There was also a certain click that couldnt be penetrated and many were afraid to post because their ideas or attempt at giving advice was under such scrutiny that their confidence was destroyed, so they didnt post. I re-read this thread and tried to see where my "ideas" were any different from anyone elses and I did see some variance, but not much.

I guess I was questioning why my ideas were met with this type of response when everyone elses were left at face value. I know I havent been here long enough to earn respect and I havent attended any of the get togethers so maybe thats it. Not really sure. I apologize if I seemed out of line.........I dont do clicks........

 

[Forza]

How will you know if your company is viable?
It would at least have to make a profit beyond wages which it isn't yet

Does that community really want the higher priced food? Or do they want the cheap crap down the street?
Our food is good value and we knew they wanted this. But they seem to want an even lower price!

If they DO want the cheap crap, would you be willing to "play the game"
Our thoughts are beginning to head in this direction

You could also try to cater to a local factory at lunch time.
We could do this type of thing. Will look into doing this

1. are you a chain or independent restaurant?
We are independent
2. who is your broadline supplier?
Not sure what this is. We've got a few food suppliers
3. what is your food cost % as it relates to sales
It is about 70% gross profit
4. what is your labor % as it relates to sales (include mgmt)
If we paid ourselves, the labour would match sales
5. what are your top 3 marketing avenues?
Flyers, shop signage, local paper
6. do you have a value menu (.99 items)
Not right now. But we are looking into it
7. how often do you do a food inventory
Haven't done one yet
8. do you do everything from "scratch", "speed scratch" or further processed?
We cook everything on site
9. what are you known for? What makes you stand out from the comp?
My partners wanted to basically copy another business, but they are beginning to see their error. If they had listened to me, we wouldn't be in this situation. I should really start something else!

I think that people today are thinking healthy. If you havent targeted the healthy mindset you probably should.
We are seen as healthier than the big burger chains I think

 

[Runum]

Apology accepted. I have belonged to a few sites to include RDPD. I quit there due to so many nay-sayers and the book readers that wouldnt take action. There was also a certain click that couldnt be penetrated and many were afraid to post because their ideas or attempt at giving advice was under such scrutiny that their confidence was destroyed, so they didnt post. I re-read this thread and tried to see where my "ideas" were any different from anyone elses and I did see some variance, but not much.

I guess I was questioning why my ideas were met with this type of response when everyone elses were left at face value. I know I havent been here long enough to earn respect and I havent attended any of the get togethers so maybe thats it. Not really sure. I apologize if I seemed out of line.........I dont do clicks........

Double D I can guarantee Steve didn't mean it that way. Honestly I have learned quit a bit about nutrition from Steve. He does get excited about the topic but he does try to make everyone look good. Also, I agree, you thoughts carry just as much weight. Thanks for your contributions. I hope it's all over with. Group hug? High five?:cheers:

 

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[camski]

How will you know if your company is viable?
It would at least have to make a profit beyond wages which it isn't yet

Does that community really want the higher priced food? Or do they want the cheap crap down the street?
Our food is good value and we knew they wanted this. But they seem to want an even lower price!

If they DO want the cheap crap, would you be willing to "play the game"
Our thoughts are beginning to head in this direction

You could also try to cater to a local factory at lunch time.
We could do this type of thing. Will look into doing this

1. are you a chain or independent restaurant?
We are independent
2. who is your broadline supplier?
Not sure what this is. We've got a few food suppliers
3. what is your food cost % as it relates to sales
It is about 70% gross profit
4. what is your labor % as it relates to sales (include mgmt)
If we paid ourselves, the labour would match sales
5. what are your top 3 marketing avenues?
Flyers, shop signage, local paper
6. do you have a value menu (.99 items)
Not right now. But we are looking into it
7. how often do you do a food inventory
Haven't done one yet
8. do you do everything from "scratch", "speed scratch" or further processed?
We cook everything on site
9. what are you known for? What makes you stand out from the comp?
My partners wanted to basically copy another business, but they are beginning to see their error. If they had listened to me, we wouldn't be in this situation. I should really start something else!

I think that people today are thinking healthy. If you havent targeted the healthy mindset you probably should.
We are seen as healthier than the big burger chains I think

1. Okay as an independent you have a tougher battle to fight due to the large marketing budgets the chains have. But the benefit you have is that you dont have any rolyalties to pay or marketing funds that come directly off the top.
2. You need to get with one of the large broadline suppliers. I dont know where you are located but the best ones are US Foodservice and Sysco. They both have all the food supplies you need but also their sales people act as true consultants in your business. Hiring an outside consultant is an absolut waste of money. These broadliners can help you. I am much more familiar with USF right now as I havent dealt with Sysco in quite a while.
3&4. It sounds like your food cost (30%) and your labor costs (30%) are in line so therfore the only other broad category is fixed costs. This would be mortgage or rent + utilities and insurance. All of this should (keep in mind these are broad terms, I would need to see your P&L's to really dig into this) amount to another 30%. leaving you with 10% bottom line profit.
5. one of the other poster mentioned direct mail. this has been highly effective for many restaurants. You can also check out a company called patron path. they do a lot with email and online marketing. A US Foodservice rep can help you with more about that.
6. start a value menu ASAP. utilize smaller portions for a cheaper price. AKA burger king, wendys, KFC. Dont buy into the "I dont want to be like the chains" argument that some restaurant owners spout. What you dont want to have a lot of business and be successful like the chains? Is what I say
7. If you havent done a food inventory how can you say that your food cost is 30%? The only accurate way to determine true food cost is like this

beginning inventory + purchases -ending inventory / sales = food cost %

so you take an inventory of all food purchased and based on your last invoices price what the value of your current inventory is. Monday morning are a good time to do this after your weekend. This si your beginning inventory. You then add whatever purchase you make for the week and then do another inventory the following monday morning. this is your ending inventory. Just plug those things into the equation above and that will tell you you food cost % for a week.

8. I realize you probably cook everything on site but what i meant was do you prep everything from scratch. For instance do you cut all you own lettuce by buying head lettuce or do you purchase pre bagged salad mix. Salad mix is 100% useable and requires no labor. In addition there is a lessor chance of a workmans comp claim via an employee cutting themselves. Or if you sell burgers do you buy raw burgers that require a longer cook time and will shrink or do you buy a precooked burger that can allow you to shorter cook times and therefore faster turns thru your drive thru? Do you buy raw onions and slice them yourselves and then batter them yourselves for your onion rings or do you buy a pre batterd onion ring? You get the drift.
9. No need to start completely over. Do all your work while you are still open. Come up with a new concept, design a new menu and then buy a banner and send out a press release (free advertising) that you are under new management or are unveiling a new menu. whatever. Announce something new or different and people will normally give it a shot. Just dont do that and give them more of the same, that will really piss them off and they will never come back.

This is just my two cents, I hope it helps.

 

[santiago]

Camski - you seem to really know your stuff - great advice!

I'm a consumer..and only observe what companies do..so take this as that..

1. Take home, pre-packaged product. I've seen a number of the cafe style restaurants are offering pre-packaged take-home stuff. I.e. you can get meatloaf on the way home, prepped ready to throw in the oven.

2. Catering, as mentioned seems to be a great revenue source. In fact I've seen several restaurants turn into pure catering.
3 Are you open for breakfast lunch and dinner? - a lot of fast food restaurants here are developing breakfast menus that they didn't have before..