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HOT TOPIC Crypto - Bots - my Journey - (10% per month min.)

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CryptoCurt

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Crypto Currencies are high volatile, high risk investments.
You should only work with money that you can spare.
Do not work with lended money.
This is not a get-rich-quick-model - Its based on compound interest.
Start slow with small amounts, get experience, then take it from there. Be patient.
Main goal:
a (relatively) stable income which grows steadily.

I am writing the following text from my memory, so its not a "live journal".
Beginning of September 2020:
I searched for automated income machines on youtube, surfed around to finance sector and landed at so called "bots".
My deeper further research brought my to the corner of cryptocurrencies where i spend some days to get a grip on crypto basics.

Mid September 2020:
I found some youtube videos that talked about crypto bots that should earn some money "passive income style".
"Yeah sure" you think now, same as i did. To be sceptic is not a bad thing.
Always check all facts yourself, never just believe someone.

So now its a setup where i have 1/3rd - 1/2 of my portfolio in open positions, no stop-loss but trailing-stop-loss.
This means I can never loose all my money - of course if the whole crypto market crashes, all open positions would loose value.

Back to business...
What I decided is to try out a solution called "cryptohopper". This is just one of many bot solutions in the crypto sector.
I followed some introduction videos that showed me exactly how to setup that bot.
What i had to learn was:
  • Basic crypto understanding (from many videos)
  • cryptohopper documentation (youtube and own education material on their website)
  • functions of crypto exchanges (basics again with some videos)
  • how to connect the bot to my chosen exchange
Fast forward to today:
After some finetuning and learning - my ROI of the last 3 month is in the 15-18% range per month (proven in bull markets, as i have only experience from Sep 20 til today).
After inclusion of a buffer for bad times, where i won't have any wins for 3 months, i plan with 10% in average over the year.

Why i am here:
I am willing to give everyone who is interested further information in this area.
I can give advice on the following side topics:
  • General "how to setup" of the crypto exchange "binance"
  • General "how to setup" of the platform "cryptohopper"
  • Importance of security and anonymity in crypto
  • trading strategies and tactics
  • trading mindset
  • copy my setup to receive similar outcomes
As a thank you, i would ask you to use my affiliate links while registering at the exchange and the cryptohopper which bring some 10% savings to both of us. This is optional of course.

I will do my best to answer all questions, what do you want to know?

Sources that i can recommend:
Coin Bureau (basics on crypto)
Aureum Victoria (german) ( mainly focused on cryptohopper)
99bitcoins (basics on crypto)
Cryptohopper (getting started)

Results:
Nov 2020: 3351 USD (Portfolio: 15K USD)
Dec 2020: 3293 USD (Portfolio: 22K USD)
Jan 2021: 10554 USD (Portfolio: 50K USD)
 

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Last edited:

mguerra

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Hey @KurtL

Thanks for posting this. I'm interested about it and have some questions...

1. Does this profit margin is true even in bear markets?
2. What are the best trading strategies and tatics can you share to maximize profit and minimize losses?
3. What are some tips/advise can you give to someone who is just getting started on Cryptohopper?

Thanks in advance!
 

CryptoCurt

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Oct 2, 2019
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Answers below:
Hey @KurtL

Thanks for posting this. I'm interested about it and have some questions...

1. Does this profit margin is true even in bear markets?
- we did not see a bear market in the recent 3 months, so its a big NO.
2. What are the best trading strategies and tatics can you share to maximize profit and minimize losses?
- in my setup i use scalping, taking 1% wins. On top of that, i only sell with profit, no stop-loss but with trailing stop loss setting activate @1.3% and trail with 0.3%. Worst case the position stays for up-to 4 weeks in your portfolio.
Also i use 2% position size with max 20 open positions at any time. In unstable times when the market is overheated (as now) i reduce to 10 open positions and keep 10 for times, when the market takes a big dip (-20%)
3. What are some tips/advise can you give to someone who is just getting started on Cryptohopper?
First i recommend to check out the cryptohopper-own videos on their website.
Next check out some videos on youtube that give you a hint on how it works. I can recommend videos from Aureum Victoria (german) or coin bureau (english).
Especially coin bureau is very good, sceptical and neutral to all platforms. i.E.:

Crypto Trading Bots: Are They Worth It?



Thanks in advance!
 

mguerra

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Thanks brother.

I'll check these resources you posted and decide if I'll jump in or not.

BTW, send me your affiliate link. I'll use it as a "thank you" if I register to Cryptohopper :)
 

CryptoCurt

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Thanks brother.

I'll check these resources you posted and decide if I'll jump in or not.

BTW, send me your affiliate link. I'll use it as a "thank you" if I register to Cryptohopper :)
U r welcome. Sure check it out, i am here to help.
Sure i PM you my links.
 
Last edited:

CryptoCurt

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These profits are pretty small for a massive bull market tbh. I make more profits holding....
I appreciate your feedback.
I find 18% monthly (not per anum) on a relatively stable basis enourmous.
Holding i would also recommend for selected coins like BTC, ETH and maybe more.
But i would not recommend to put all eggs in one basket, hope you don`t do that.

I would mix holding and scalping (and more if you want to add?)
 

CryptoCurt

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Oct 2, 2019
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I have seen so many 'crypto bots' stuff the past years and they all got rekt.

This is the classic shortcut scam in action. Have you even read MJ's books?
Hey Kaizos,
as i mentioned in the top, this is a high risk investment. At least here i can`t loose all my money, max 1/3rd if i would have 20 open positions (20 different coins) which would all go to zero. This is the worst case scenario, which i believe has a very low probability. A coin or maybe 2 can go overboard in a realistic scenario but 20, i don`t think thats realistic. Of course so called "shitcoins" should be avoided at all costs by proper selection process.
Realistic would be, that the whole market goes bearish for a couple of months. In this case i would have to sit and wait and would earn zero $. Not fun but also not a loss. Thats why i would only do that with a proper buffer and of course this should be done with Money that you can spare only.

Yes i have read unscripted and i am aware that this is not the typical setup if i follow that crypto approach. But i want to try it and talk about it in this forum.
So please keep an open mind. If a model works based on compound interest, i would not call it "shortcut".
 
Last edited:

Kevin88660

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Upfront my remarks: Crypto Currencies are high volatile, high risk investments. Not for the faint hearted. You should only work with money that you can spare. Do not work with lended money. This is not a get-rich-quick-model. Its based on compound interest.
Start slow with small amounts, get experience, then take it from there. Be patient.
Main goal:
a (relatively) stable income which grows steadily.

I am writing the following text from my memory, so its not a "live journal".
Beginning of September 2020:
I searched for automated income machines on youtube, surfed around to finance sector and landed at so called "bots".
My deeper further research brought my to the corner of cryptocurrencies where i spend some days to get a grip on crypto basics.

Mid September 2020:
I found some youtube videos that talked about crypto bots that should earn some money "passive income style".
"Yeah sure" you think now, same as i did. To be sceptic is not a bad thing.
Always check all facts yourself, never just believe someone.

So now its a setup where i have 1/3rd of my portfolio in open positions, no stop-loss but trailing-stop-loss.
This means I can never loose all my money - of course if the whole crypto market crashes, all open positions would be worthless.

Back to business...
What I decided is to try out a solution called "cryptohopper". This is just one of many bot solutions in the crypto sector.
I followed some introduction videos that showed me exactly how to setup that bot.
What i had to learn was:
  • Basic crypto understanding (from many videos)
  • cryptohopper documentation (youtube and own education material on their website)
  • functions of crypto exchanges (basics again with some videos)
  • how to connect the bot to my chosen exchange
Fast forward to today:
After some finetuning and learning - my ROI of the last 3 month is in the 15-18% range PER MONTH (proven in bull markets, as i have only experience from Sep 20 til today)

Why i am here:
I am willing to give everyone who is interested further information in this area.
I can give advice on the following side topics:
  • General "how to setup" of the crypto exchange "binance"
  • General "how to setup" of the platform "cryptohopper"
  • Importance of security and anonymity in crypto
  • trading strategies and tactics
  • trading mindset
  • copy my setup to receive similar outcomes
As a thank you, i would ask you to use my affiliate links while registering at the exchange and the cryptohopper which bring some 10% savings to both of us. This is optional of course.

I will do my best to answer all questions, what do you want to know?

Sources that i can recommend:
Coin Bureau (basics on crypto)
Aureum Victoria (german) ( mainly focused on cryptohopper)
99bitcoins (basics on crypto)
Cryptohopper (getting started)
How is it better than a simple trend following model?

Research shows that trend following works for bitcoin. Even though you make less money than buy and hold the drawdown is much less. Sharpe ratio (or gain to pain ratio) is improved.

We dont need 15-18 percent return. Just give me 10 percent monthly and it will turn 20k into a million in 3.5 years.

If you test on alt coins during the whipsaw period of bear market there will be loss and profit erosion. Maybe you could do more backtesting and show us.
 

CryptoCurt

Contributor
Oct 2, 2019
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107
Germany
How is it better than a simple trend following model?

Research shows that trend following works for bitcoin. Even though you make less money than buy and hold the drawdown is much less. Sharpe ratio (or gain to pain ratio) is improved.

We dont need 15-18 percent return. Just give me 10 percent monthly and it will turn 20k into a million in 3.5 years.

If you test on alt coins during the whipsaw period of bear market there will be loss and profit erosion. Maybe you could do more backtesting and show us.
Hi Kevin,
yes i can imagine that my recent wins might get cut down to 10-12% if such a bear market would hit us.
I don't want to win against any other method, i just try to find one that works for me. And this one looks very promising to me. But i am not a "if" guy. I see what it brings me now and how i can safeguard by keeping open invest in 1/3rd area. Not interested in backtesting during bad times. It could be that this period is right around the corner or it could take 3 years until this hits.
I take from your feedback that i should not paint my picture to positively. You are right.
I will change my title to leave this buffer for some bad months. I don't want to promise numbers that are too good to be true.
 

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Frinys

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In the past 3 months, the total market cap of all cryptocurrencies has increased from 500B to 1,5T. That's a 200% increase. It's almost impossible to not earn money in crypto right now.

You have had an increase of ≈17% per month. That's a 60% increase. In other words, your bot is underperforming by a large margin. You would have been much better off just holding cryptos.

When the bear market arrives, your bot will eat away all your gains in a matter of weeks. It happened for botters in 2018, and it will happen again in 2021.
 

Kid

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Would be nice if you inform yourself for 5 minutes before posting such worthless comments.
Thinking that you can beat the market with your bot is worthless.
Basically you have something that does a random thing following the upward trend and you call yourself a genius.
Also, did you know that on such small sample (Sep 20) you can prove any algorithm?
Try doing it for 5 years and see if your balls seem to you as big as you think they are now.

So i would kindly suggest - go back to some books, you'll need them.
 

Timmy C

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I appreciate your feedback.
I find 18% monthly (not per anum) on a relatively stable basis enourmous.
Holding i would also recommend for selected coins like BTC, ETH and maybe more.
But i would not recommend to put all eggs in one basket, hope you don`t do that.

I would mix holding and scalping (and more if you want to add?)

18% a month isn't enormous.

Your essentially cucking yourself on purpose in a raging bull market.
 

CryptoCurt

Contributor
Oct 2, 2019
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In the past 3 months, the total market cap of all cryptocurrencies has increased from 500B to 1,5T. That's a 200% increase. It's almost impossible to not earn money in crypto right now.

You have had an increase of ≈17% per month. That's a 60% increase. In other words, your bot is underperforming by a large margin. You would have been much better off just holding cryptos.

When the bear market arrives, your bot will eat away all your gains in a matter of weeks. It happened for botters in 2018, and it will happen again in 2021.

Hi Frinys,
I think and evaluate each and every reply from everyone, try to learn and harden my approach.

Let me respond to your points:

  1. "It's almost impossible to not earn money in crypto right now."
  • your statement shows that you did not understand my approach. Seems you just want to bash it.
  • Of course i am earning money on a daily basis.
  1. "You have had an increase of ≈17% per month. That's a 60% increase.
...In other words, your bot is underperforming by a large margin. You would have been much better off just holding cryptos."
  • you seem to compare bots performance with HODL. a bot "scalps" and takes small wins. HODL i also do in parallel.
  • always mix
  1. " When the bear market arrives, your bot will eat away all your gains in a matter of weeks"
  2. Trick is not to work with stop-loss and realize wins. Just let it sit, market will come back, as it always does. In 2018 we saw a really long bear market, no doubt about it. But if you would predict (and wait) for the next downturn, then this is not for you.
Always be cautious, do not have too much in the market so you can hang in there and still be able to pay your rent.
Sure, its always a risk but thats life. But for sure, its not for everybody.
To manage the risk, thats big part of the game.

I will keep on reporting my progress.
 

CryptoCurt

Contributor
Oct 2, 2019
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Thinking that you can beat the market with your bot is worthless.
Basically you have something that does a random thing following the upward trend and you call yourself a genius.
Also, did you know that on such small sample (Sep 20) you can prove any algorithm?
Try doing it for 5 years and see if your balls seem to you as big as you think they are now.

So i would kindly suggest - go back to some books, you'll need them.
Instead of arguing with you, i just let the time prove who is right.
Not calling myself a genius, just found a working way of making money and willing to share it.
Sorry if my response was too harsh. Not nice.
Books are good in school but in real life you need to make up your mind, keep an open mind, try new ways and see what works and what not.
To just bash an idea is easy, enhancing it and giving valuable feedback is the deal of this forum. Put some work into your responses next time, it would be highly appreciated.
 

Frinys

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Hi Frinys,
I think and evaluate each and every reply from everyone, try to learn and harden my approach.

Let me respond to your points:

  1. "It's almost impossible to not earn money in crypto right now."
  • your statement shows that you did not understand my approach. Seems you just want to bash it.
  • Of course i am earning money on a daily basis.
I completely understand your approach. I do not want to bash, I want to save you and anyone else who decides to follow in your footsteps from losing a lot of money.

  1. "You have had an increase of ≈17% per month. That's a 60% increase.
...In other words, your bot is underperforming by a large margin. You would have been much better off just holding cryptos."
  • you seem to compare bots performance with HODL. a bot "scalps" and takes small wins. HODL i also do in parallel.
  • always mix

Do you take taxes into account when doing this? In most countries, all exchange of crypto is taxable events. Does your bot lock away X% of your profit after each trade, so you can pay your taxes when the taxman comes?

If not, you are trading with the government's money. In that case, you should be extremely careful. The tax must be paid, even if you end up losing all of your gains in the future.

  1. " When the bear market arrives, your bot will eat away all your gains in a matter of weeks"
  2. Trick is not to work with stop-loss and realize wins. Just let it sit, market will come back, as it always does. In 2018 we saw a really long bear market, no doubt about it. But if you would predict (and wait) for the next downturn, then this is not for you.
Always be cautious, do not have too much in the market so you can hang in there and still be able to pay your rent.
Sure, its always a risk but thats life. But for sure, its not for everybody.
To manage the risk, thats big part of the game.
Risk in what way? This is "risk" as in "Run across the highway with closed eyes to get to the other side of the road faster"-risk. The risk is enormous and the reward is close to zero.

"But sure, its not for everybody", "To manage the risk, thats big part of the game" - Pat on the back phrases and famous last words if you ask me.

I will keep on reporting my progress.
I'm looking forward to following your progress. And I sure hope that you keep posting honest progress updates even when the bear market arrives.

Good luck!

And to anyone else considering crypto bots: Reconsider. It is a known way to lose a lot of money.
 

CryptoCurt

Contributor
Oct 2, 2019
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Germany
I completely understand your approach. I do not want to bash, I want to save you and anyone else who decides to follow in your footsteps from losing a lot of money.
Do you take taxes into account when doing this? In most countries, all exchange of crypto is taxable events. Does your bot lock away X% of your profit after each trade, so you can pay your taxes when the taxman comes?
Taxes are 40% on the gains. No, i have that in my own calculation. Bot is for trading only.
If not, you are trading with the government's money. In that case, you should be extremely careful. The tax must be paid, even if you end up losing all of your gains in the future.
Absolutely. Do not think about trying to hide any income. At some day the gvmnt will check bank wires and crypto exchanges and will get to you - someday. So i pay honestly taxes and look for tax friendlier countries / citizenship beginning next year.
Risk in what way? This is "risk" as in "Run across the highway with closed eyes to get to the other side of the road faster"-risk. The risk is enormous and the reward is close to zero.
The risk you need to define yourself. I am in the market with 1/3 -1/2 of my portfolio at all times. This is high risk.
You can choose a smaller amount for more safety and less gains.

"But sure, its not for everybody", "To manage the risk, thats big part of the game" - Pat on the back phrases and famous last words if you ask me.
That was my try at making sure i don't want to sell stuff, maybe a kind of disclaimer.
I just want to inform, report and support if anyone is interested.
I'm looking forward to following your progress. And I sure hope that you keep posting honest progress updates even when the bear market arrives.

Good luck!

And to anyone else considering crypto bots: Reconsider. It is a known way to lose a lot of money.
Thanks!
Yes i will keep reporting on a monthly basis.
Also reconsider: starting ANY business idea is a known way to lose a lot of your money, too. ;-)
 

Rabby

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So much rage. Give the guy a break, guys. He said this is money he can afford to lose.

I remember losing $5,000 in less than 5 minutes due to a botched execution in coffee futures. This guy's experiment is probably more scientific than whatever I was doing at that time.

I'm glad you're running the experiment, and I don't see why you shouldn't. Especially if you have a bot doing it for you... it's not even taking up your time, so you can run a business or whatever simultaneously. I do think you should understand and control the bot's behavior. Without that, you're not really gaining anything.

Personally I also like trading on volatility because the direction of the market doesn't matter much... a downward adjustment is just as profitable as a raging bull, if you're on the right side of it (or on both sides, depending on just how volatile). And even inna sideways market, there can be enough movement up and dow to make small gains throughout the day.

Document one strategy applied to one instrument. That's important, otherwise your data will be a mess.

Good luck.
 

Rabby

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Oh, I forgot to ask... are these crypto options, futures, or the currencies themselves? I don't know how much the derivatives market has been built out in this area, but it seems like options could be helpful for hedging, locking in gains, or just trading without the risk of a large position (esp on the short side).
 

CryptoCurt

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So much rage. Give the guy a break, guys. He said this is money he can afford to lose.

I remember losing $5,000 in less than 5 minutes due to a botched execution in coffee futures. This guy's experiment is probably more scientific than whatever I was doing at that time.

I'm glad you're running the experiment, and I don't see why you shouldn't. Especially if you have a bot doing it for you... it's not even taking up your time, so you can run a business or whatever simultaneously. I do think you should understand and control the bot's behavior. Without that, you're not really gaining anything.

Personally I also like trading on volatility because the direction of the market doesn't matter much... a downward adjustment is just as profitable as a raging bull, if you're on the right side of it (or on both sides, depending on just how volatile). And even inna sideways market, there can be enough movement up and dow to make small gains throughout the day.

Document one strategy applied to one instrument. That's important, otherwise your data will be a mess.

Good luck.
Thanks a lot Rabby. Yeah i do daily tracking of my wins, analyse what is working good and what doesn't.
First 2 Month where chaotic because i thought i would act smarter than the bot, making manual decisions all the time. Now i see that this machine works best if you leave it alone, its a well working strategy behind it.
Its always easier said than done to "let it do its thing". With papermoney you even forget it but with your own money its a different beast. But i get calmer every day as i see its working out.
 

CryptoCurt

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Oh, I forgot to ask... are these crypto options, futures, or the currencies themselves? I don't know how much the derivatives market has been built out in this area, but it seems like options could be helpful for hedging, locking in gains, or just trading without the risk of a large position (esp on the short side).
the cryptocurrencies themselves. I trade all coins. But each single one i do a chart analysis upfront to see if this has a "stable" uptrend or a downtrend. No derivatives.
 

Tourmaline

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I remember losing $5,000 in less than 5 minutes due to a botched execution in coffee futures. This guy's experiment is probably more scientific than whatever I was doing at that time.

lol that must have been nerve wracking! What'd you do after that happened?
 

Tourmaline

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@CryptoCurt I'm highly interested and intrigued.

Love your avatar too!

idk if it's too much to ask, but what does your bot trade based off of? Any specific indicators or?
 

CryptoCurt

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@CryptoCurt I'm highly interested and intrigued.

Love your avatar too!

idk if it's too much to ask, but what does your bot trade based off of? Any specific indicators or?
Hi @Tourmaline, basically the strategy is working on indicators for "overbought/oversold". If the algorithm finds a coin (out of the ones you selected prior), it buys if the coin dropped sharply b/c it is highly probable that it rises again shortly afterwards.
The users job is to find and monitor the coin portfolio so you only trade with coins that have an overall positive trend. every 2 weeks i do a review of the charts of my 50 coins and do a cleanup. Kick out dropping ones and taking in new candidates.
Let me know if you want to know more, PM me if you like.
 
Last edited:

Rabby

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lol that must have been nerve wracking! What'd you do after that happened?
Told my wife "hey, remember that money I mentioned that we can afford to lose? Well, we just lost some of it. Coffee?" And I poured two cups of coffee.
 

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