Americans...Do You Feel You're In Danger???

[Jake]

If you want my honest opinion, I'm actually a little uncomfortable being in the U.S. -- sure I can take care of myself but the constant looking over my shoulder to see if police are around to ask me "what I'm doin' round' here, boy!?"

I was back in the U.S 2 -3 weeks ago for the first time in nearly 7 years. A bomb may have just gone off a few days ago in the heart of Bangkok but I'm more worried about U.S Police thinking they're Infantryman. It doesn't sit right with me.

My sister rented a place on a lake which pays over $20k a year in property taxes..and we, as well as the owners, were not even allowed to cast a line off the dock. $20k a year in taxes and you still need to pay more money to catch a few fish from your property?

Too much freedom for me..I'll stay in Asia.

 

[GlobalWealth]

I have A LOT more fear in the US than outside. The US has devolved into a police state and most Americans don't even see it because it has been slowly administered - aka boiling frog syndrome.

I spend most of my time in Eastern Europe and I feel infinitely safer here than even in small town America.

I was in Panama last week and even went on walks in town at night with my 8 year old son. No concerns.


Sent from my SM-G900FD using Tapatalk

 

[Rawr]

Do you feel the world has become a more dangerous place for Americans traveling abroad?

Too broad of a question, depends on where you're going. Europe, absolutely not. In the end the issue with Americans abroad is that they are too loud and obnoxious. Just being polite and realising you aren't anyone special goes a long way.

 

[Kung Fu Steve]

Do you feel the world has become a more dangerous place for Americans traveling abroad?

I've been outside the U.S. a LOT in the past 5 years. The answer is absolutely not.

@GlobalWealth and I talk about this sometimes. There's not many places either of us wouldn't go. Although I'm probably not going to hang around Belize City, the province of Donetsk, or Afghanistan any time soon.

But yes, most Americans are TERRIFIED of leaving (or even vacationing) outside the U.S. ... in fact MOST people who live in the U.S. have never even left their home state!

@JasonR has been kidnapped in Bali by beautiful women and white sand beaches... does that count as sketchy?

If you want my honest opinion, I'm actually a little uncomfortable being in the U.S. -- sure I can take care of myself but the constant looking over my shoulder to see if police are around to ask me "what I'm doin' round' here, boy!?" or hell, even the two meth-heads who tried to run a scam just yesterday. "We ran out of gas in your drive way... can I give you $5 to go get us gas?"

... seriously? I had to use all my muscle two hold back my two dogs (140 pounder and 130 pounder) from tearing these guys up!

 

[Kung Fu Steve]

Put it this way, when I first went to the Baltics to meet up with @GlobalWealth (and eventually started living there) his daughter was 14? 15? And I was absolutely AMAZED he would let her walk home by herself at 1 or 2 in the morning from her shows or whatever she was up to.

I was totally freaking out but come to find out Riga is damn near the SAFEST city I've ever been to... ever. The most vicious crime you'll see is if you leave your bike unlocked somewhere and some drunk takes it.

It's pretty safe to say it's unsafe for a young girl (even an older woman) to walk home alone after dark ANYWHERE in the U.S. be it city streets or back country roads - you just don't do it.

But in Riga you can leave your drink sitting on the bar or anywhere really and no one will touch it (I've actually been roofied twice in the states.. I'm pretty but I'm sure I wasn't the intended target).

In Riga you can leave your phone and keys just sitting on your table to go use the restroom and they will actually still be there when you get back. (Even if your friends are sitting at your table, you still never leave anything sitting on the table in the U.S.)

Hell I'm waaaaay out in the country here in Minnesota at the moment before I head to my next destination but I never would have thought two jack-a$$ meth heads would come walking up this driveway (just a funny coincidence it happened when you posted this)!

P.S.

About the Police - I have trained hundreds at this point. And yes there are good ones, but we have to understand they have a vastly different mentality that is bred into them day after day after day.

We all get brainwashed by our environment. Often time lawyers will come home to cross examine their spouse all night for example. Your job/career/business often becomes your identity and it spills into everything else.

The trouble is not just the "militarization" of law enforcement equipment but the programs geared towards providing veterans work when they return home.

Often you'll find the majority of officers have some form of military service under their belt. They were sent to Iraq, they were sent to Afghanistan and even if they didn't directly experience a firefight their beliefs were transformed. "Shoot to kill", "them or me", "anyone brown is going down" -- as insane as these beliefs are in common society -- the job of a soldier is to kill.

It would be a lot tougher for them to carry out their orders if these things didn't exist. I'm definitely not defending it, but I would venture to say the large majority of people who hold a gun and a badge right now have some interesting psychological traits. Their job is not to protect and serve, it's to seek and destroy.

And to finish the thought, even the best-hearted police officers out there are subjected to this environment every day. If everyone around them is ok with shooting first and asking questions later - it won't be long before they justify inside it's okay for them as well. We are our environment.

Anyways I'm off on a tangent so I think I'll go back to work

 

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[biophase]

Do you feel the world has become a more dangerous place for Americans traveling abroad?

I'd say you can visit 90% of the countries out there with absolutely no fear.

 

[Rawr]

I'm still getting over store clerks in Spain saying Hola and actually meaning it everytime I stop by to buy a coke. (protip, hola, the intonation is on the last syllable - ho-lAh )

When I got to spain, the Russian in me had switched to this 'don't F*ck with me' vibe I was used to in strange situations. I definitely was the scariest person on the island of Mallorca, everyone else was friendly! And I stayed in non tourist area, ate at local places where had to use fingers and bad spanish to order, etc. I will say it a million times, people in Spain are such a huge positive for that country - relaxed, friendly, etc. They could be very stressed with their unemployment rates but they still understand one thing americans seemed to have forgotten - you get one life! The more you choose to act stressed, the less you'll enjoy it.

Even the homeless people are polite here, that's another observation - they sit outside of a grocery store, but it's not that 'I'm a POS, help me!!' vibe, it is more of a 'yep, down on my luck, but still have my pride' vibe.

Apologies to OP to derail the thread.



""I have A LOT more fear in the US than outside. The US has devolved into a police state and most Americans don't even see it because it has been slowly administered - aka boiling frog syndrome. ""

Well said. You don't realize that you don't get to hear people say 'umm..wait a second, aren't *I* the one who makes the choices in my life?" Good or bad, but they're yours!

 

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[Red]

@JasonR has been kidnapped in Bali by beautiful women...

You spelled "bats" wrong.

I prefer under protected.

This is because you're a dude &, what, about 6' tall? You're much less likely to be a target than @Bila or myself.


In my time traveling, I can tell you that there is a HUGE difference in the experience of walking around a foreign city as a singular woman than on the arm of a man. But just like here in Phoenix, there are place I wouldn't ever walk alone at night. Ever. I figured every city/every country has the same thing. There's the good & the not-so-good. You have to decide what's important to you & then select a place that caters to those priorities. It's just that simple.

Is your priority keeping most of your income? Then there are many countries that you will want to avoid, including the US if you earn any type of substantial income.
Is your priority having handicap/wheelchair accessible amenities? Then the US is one of the best places around.
Do you love snow? Then Phoenix isn't for you.
Etc, etc, ad nauseum...

It all comes down to what's important to you. That's the beauty of all of it: there's something for everyone. Life is too short to not live where you love.

 

[biophase]

Most of the time, I feel very comfortable outside the US. It's crazy how nice people are to strangers in other countries compared to the US.

 

[Chitown]

But yes, most Americans are TERRIFIED of leaving (or even vacationing) outside the U.S. ... in fact MOST people who live in the U.S. have never even left their home state!

@Kung Fu Steve

One of the pieces of information in the news story I heard had me shaking my head. They mentioned how "Americans were afraid of what was going on in the world". I sat there thinking, "WTF?"

Afraid of the world? 75% of these folks don't even hold passports!

Hell, I'd be willing to bet 90% of the 75% have never left their respective states, let alone their cities. Sad.

If you want my honest opinion, I'm actually a little uncomfortable being in the U.S. -- sure I can take care of myself but the constant looking over my shoulder to see if police are around to ask me "what I'm doin' round' here, boy!?" or hell, even the two meth-heads who tried to run a scam just yesterday. "We ran out of gas in your drive way... can I give you $5 to go get us gas?"

... seriously? I had to use all my muscle two hold back my two dogs (140 pounder and 130 pounder) from tearing these guys up!

The three groups of males who make me nervous, particularly where my sons are concerned:

1) a$$ wipe cops with chips on their shoulders who feel you're supposed to genuflect simply because they tell you to. I've always suspected a lot of cops are power tripping cowards. In fairness, I admit I know some good police officers but I avoid all contact with that group whenever possible. I have never looked to them as protectors.

2) a$$ hats like George Zimmerman. Enough said.

3) a$$ crack black men - mad at the world and don't give a f--k - who deliberately inflict pain on other black men and women because they hate themselves. It's not my or my sons' fault that your Momma got knocked up by a loser.

As for those meth heads, put the dogs on 'em! Motherf--kers are up to no good, rolling up into your driveway, talking about "Here's five dollars. Can you go get us some gas?" So they can break into your home. a$$ wipes.

 

[Jake]

No.

Well I guess I was in some danger for being an American when in Iraq and Afghanistan but it was to be expected.

 

[Chitown]

Just being polite and realising you aren't anyone special goes a long way.

@Rawr

Well said.

I remember the reception I got from the gentleman selling ice cream at the base of the Eiffel Tower when I attempted to speak the little bit of French I knew at the time. Ice Cream Man lit up, commenting on how beautiful my accent was. I felt like a million bucks!

I shared with him, in contrast, the treatment I received the previous day while having lunch on the Champs Elysees. I ordered the meal - steak frites - without trying to mangle their language and a Frenchman seated nearby looked at me like I was a crackhead trying to steal baby's milk.

How dare I attempt to speak French?

But Ice Cream Man dismissed the other guys' attitude, chalking it up to local Parisian arrogance. He shared that he, too, was Parisian and couldn't stand fellow Parisians who looked down their nose at tourists who at least tried to attempt communicating in the French language.

I came away from my interaction with this man with a couple of lessons I've never forgotten:

1) Showing respect for another culture will earn you serious dividends in ways you'd never imagine. I consider a foreign country someones' home and conduct myself, accordingly. Loud and obnoxious is an alien concept to me.

2) With some obvious exceptions notwithstanding, no matter what one may feel about another countrys' government respective citizens deal with each other on an individual basis and tend to form opinions and judgements based on the person standing before them, not the one entering their homes through news media.

 

[jlwilliams]

My travels have been way to limited in general, and specifically I've only been outside the US in Mexico, Canada and Bermuda so my perspective has to be taken with that grain of salt. That said, there is more danger from violence in most American cities than there is in many foreign nations. There are places in any country where it's unwise to be if you aren't from there, but your typical mid sized to large US city has more murder, rape and robbery than many whole nations have.

There is no place in the world where it's safe to be a stupid jackass. Rude behavior can get you beaten or killed in your own home town as well as it can in Timbuktu. If you are a polite, aware, alert individual who uses some good judgment you are going to be widely welcomed.

The statement from the report you heard to the effect that Americans feel less secure and their voting will be influenced by that is true enough; but that is a matter of perspective and not a reflection on international travel. We here in the US have had acts of war committed by individuals who take it upon themselves to answer the call of foreign enemies which is something more or less new to our time. Where people living in the CONUS have been separated from our nations wars by geography for over a century, we now have "lone wolf" shootings or beheadings from time to time. (a plot to behead a police man was busted 20 miles from my home a couple months ago) That reflects a change in life here more than it does a change anywhere else. At the same time, standards of living in other countries are on the rise; so those places are safer than they used to be. The people living on the island where Michael Rockefeller* was eaten 50 years ago have i-phones now and aren't so into boiling passing Americans. Basically, Americans are ill at ease because our homeland is becoming more savage (crime, police brutality, acts of terror) while the rest of the world is becoming more civil. Our well founded paranoia will bleed over into how we see others; but it should really be focused closer to home.




*Here's a link to a story about Michael Rockefeller. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...eir-gutted-cooked-Asmat-tribe-New-Guinea.html

I ask rhetorically, are we somehow less safe than this that happened at a time when the US-of-A was on the top of the respect heap?

 

[GlobalWealth]

Don't sugarcoat it @Chitown. We're all adults here.

Sent from my SM-G900FD using Tapatalk

 

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[Iwokeup]

@Rawr

Well said.

I remember the reception I got from the gentleman selling ice cream at the base of the Eiffel Tower when I attempted to speak the little bit of French I knew at the time. Ice Cream Man lit up, commenting on how beautiful my accent was. I felt like a million bucks!

I shared with him, in contrast, the treatment I received the previous day while having lunch on the Champs Elysees. I ordered the meal - steak frites - without trying to mangle their language and a Frenchman seated nearby looked at me like I was a crackhead trying to steal baby's milk.

How dare I attempt to speak French?

But Ice Cream Man dismissed the other guys' attitude, chalking it up to local Parisian arrogance. He shared that he, too, was Parisian and couldn't stand fellow Parisians who looked down their nose at tourists who at least tried to attempt communicating in the French language.

I came away from my interaction with this man with a couple of lessons I've never forgotten:

1) Showing respect for another culture will earn you serious dividends in ways you'd never imagine. I consider a foreign country someones' home and conduct myself, accordingly. Loud and obnoxious is an alien concept to me.

2) With some obvious exceptions notwithstanding, no matter what one may feel about another countrys' government respective citizens deal with each other on an individual basis and tend to form opinions and judgements based on the person standing before them, not the one entering their homes through news media.

I've had similar experiences in Mexico, the Middle and Far East: learn a little of the language, what's considered polite/vulgar (including phrases, body language, smile/don't smile) and had wonderful times over and over.

Can't speak yet to Europe, South America...but someday soon!

 

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[Vigilante]

September should be an interesting month in America. Lots of things happening behind the scenes.

 

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[splok]

I've lived outside of the US for most of the last decade and have visited quite a few countries along the way. I've never felt like I was "in danger" other than the danger of getting myself lost due to not understanding the local public transport system heh.

However, it's important to remember that how we feel often doesn't have much to do with reality. Statistically speaking, hopping on a scooter is probably the most dangerous thing any tourist/expat will ever do.

 

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[JordanS]

I don't think the world is worse than it has been in the past. Now we just have the internet and a 24/7 news cycle showing us bad things all the time. Those things were always happening, we just weren't hearing about them the second they happened.

 

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[Chitown]

I think you'll enjoy this post: http://www.fluentin3months.com/fear/ Other posters in this thread will probably enjoy it, too. Just a taste:

@MTF

Great post.

He made some very strong points about the absurdity of our fear of damned near everything outside our borders - which a lot of people buy into without any vetting whatsoever - while we don't give a second thought to the stealthy erosion of our civil liberties at home under the dubious claim of "national security". WTF?

The FBI showing up at my door with a "National Security Letter", hopped up police goons at LAX, Monsanto being able to sue and win against dairy farmers who advertise the fact they don't use growth hormones in their products - that's the s--t that makes me nervous! I'm a gun owner. Register my ammo? Are you on crack? Never!

I don't even watch the news, anymore, because the lazy sons of biscuit eaters who call themselves mainstream journalists don't cover in any substantive way the issues that affect all of us like climate change. That s--t is real!

On the other hand, I refuse to be scared of the "other". I love interacting with people from other countries, faiths viewpoints, etc. That's how you grow as a person; expand as a human being. One of my fondest memories in recent years was a late night conversation I had with an Italian man as we sat listening to the waves at Palisades Park in Santa Monica, CA.

We talked about religion, politics, women, capitalism, etc. We disagreed on some things but that was okay. The important thing was we listened to each other. All these doomsdayers who sit in front of their televisions recoiling in horror at the world, as if the bogeyman with the accent is going to get them?

I wish, as a start, they'd take a walk around the block. They might learn something.

 

[Chitown]

I have A LOT more fear in the US than outside. The US has devolved into a police state and most Americans don't even see it because it has been slowly administered - aka boiling frog syndrome.

@GlobalWealth

Amen, brotha!

I have this conversation all the time. You ever notice how much the state says you can or can't do? But make a decision with agency and self-determination and it's, "Houston. We have a problem!"

You can't eat this. You can't drink that. You can't travel here. Pay the tax even though the money was earned outside the U.S. WTF?

Parking enforcement wrote me a ticket in front of my own apartment after the street had obviously been cleaned! When I reminded him that the street was cleaned at 9 AM - you can't park on my side of the street, Mondays between 8 AM - 12 Noon - he said I didn't see the big picture. I told him I saw the big picture, clearly. It was a money run for the city.

It burns my a$$ to see people driving around, scrambling for parking spaces because the city wants to fill their coffers while we have to wait for 12 Noon to come around in order to park on a street that was swept hours ago.

My lady and I are having serious discussions about raising our sons outside the U.S. for a while. F--k the bulls--t!

 

[M&A]

Eye opener, Pinker is on point.

For all those feeling fearful of the present world.

 

[MTF]

I have A LOT more fear in the US than outside. The US has devolved into a police state and most Americans don't even see it because it has been slowly administered - aka boiling frog syndrome.

I spend most of my time in Eastern Europe and I feel infinitely safer here than even in small town America.

That's funny. When I read this thread, the first thing I wanted to do was to ask @Chitown if he doesn't feel he's in danger in the US, but I didn't want to derail the thread.

The US (mostly the government) has done a great job at discouraging me from visiting this country (visa issues, airport security procedures, high taxes, rising crime, overregulation, suspicions about everybody). I've never been there, but I'm actually more afraid to go there than to many other places people consider dangerous.

@Chitown, I think you'll enjoy this post: http://www.fluentin3months.com/fear/ Other posters in this thread will probably enjoy it, too. Just a taste:

My time in North America was indeed the one place I’ve felt the least safe out of an entire decade of travelling to over fifty countries, for a few reasons I’ll give below, but also simply because of all the fear mongering the states does so well anyway.

 

[AndrewNC]

You spelled "bats" wrong.

Incorrect...he spelled "Thailand" wrong...and you spelled "Layboys" wrong...

 

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[Jake]

You complain about being over protected ?? ..... Try being underprotected

"Ms. Diaz said when the female officer arrived, she conducted a pat frisk of her nude body, including asking her to spread her legs.

“She questioned (the others) why she had to search me if I was naked,” Ms. Diaz said. “They were like, ‘Search her anyway.’”​

http://telegram.com/article/20150821/NEWS/150829750

Over protected

 

[splok]

And what is that difference?

Even in Norway, the wife would get some verbal harassment when walking around by herself and was very hesitant to go out alone after dark.

It's unfortunate, but women get to deal with a lot of stuff that we're just never directly exposed to.

 

[OscarDeuce]

Years ago, the neighbor across the street, who we never much spoke with, knocked on the door to tell my wife, "I just saw your husband on CNN!"
"What was he doing?" my better half inquired.
"Jumping off a bridge!"
Well, that got her a bit worked up, particularly because she couldn't reach me by telephone.

The back story was, I was in Amsterdam working with a client. This was back when the EU was still in the "good idea" stage, although not everyone was convinced of that. There was apparently a crucial meeting on that topic scheduled to take place in the city, and the protesters had been gathering for about a week. It was a Saturday as I recall, and I didn't have any client meetings that day. Even with the protesters, things had been peaceful, so I decided to wander around a bit.

I went down to the central train station, which was a short walk from my hotel. My client's offices were quite a bit out of town and I had been taking taxis back and forth. Taxis seem to be none too pleasant in any city, so I decided to check out the train as an alternative way of getting to their offices.

I was crossing the broad avenue right outside the train station and was about halfway across when the police and protesters charged each other. I was at ground zero. It quickly became obvious that these people wanted to kill one another, and neither side cared that I was a noncombatant. I literally fought my way to what seemed to be the closest "edge" of the melee, and found myself at the railing overlooking one of the many canals that cross perpendicular to the streets. As I climbed over the railing, I noticed the camera crew...

Anyway, I relate that story only to provide context. Although I've experienced "issues" traveling abroad, no, I don't feel unsafe doing so. I'll echo what many have said above, I feel far less safe right here at "home," where the police shoot first and ask questions later, apparently with impunity. And no, I'm not referring to recently well publicized cases where the shooting was clearly self defense. I'm thinking more of the cases you never heard about. Like the middle aged woman who was gunned down by a cop while she was waiting in a church parking lot for a meeting that she arrived early for. Or the unarmed man who lived literally down the street in a mostly white, upper middle class neighborhood, shot by a cop over a "domestic" disturbance.

Cheers,
O-2

 

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[DrkSide]

I have never been out of the country so I can't really comment there. But I have never felt in danger living in the US.

Without getting into too much detail I will put the blame on the media and the 24/7 news cycle for telling everyone that they are in danger. People are now told on an hourly basis about someone being killed/beaten/shot or other atrocity. How do you think that will make them feel about the world around them?

Fear and violence sell and with "journalists" and "experts" on the TV (which is where most people spend their time) telling you that every danger lurks just around the corner and that you should be scared people react just the way they are told.

Evil is everywhere and it cannot be removed from society. It will use the tools that it has be it guns, knives, baseball bats, or money to inflict damage on people without impunity for anyone.

 

[Hassen]

I've walked around in eastern Los Angeles at night alone as a woman. I've walked a dimly-lit path for 10 min as a singular woman (ok, sometimes while being drunk out of my mind) after midnight for many times to get home in my home city in China. Noticed no difference whatsoever, except in China brass knuckles are legal whereas guns are both illegal & rare even for criminals, so I feel pretty good about not carrying & only have my brass knuckles ready to break a few bones of any potential shady character that might approach me. Well, provided I am taller and better trained than the average shady character in China, but still.

I'm a firm believer that unless you manage to land yourself in a warzone, whether you feel safe depends largely on yourself. Don't flaunt your riches, avoid dangerous areas/situations unless you know what you're doing & be ready to protect yourself if it really comes down to that, you should be good to go in most places people travel to as tourists. Bottom line, even if you get pickpocketed or even mugged as a traveler for once or twice, theives and robbers generally wouldn't try to kill you. Whether you're American or not wouldn't matter that much either, I mean, anybody traveling abroad could get exposed to scams, petty theft, all kinds of crimes that are simply everywhere in every country, & anybody could encounter situations where their ethnicity/nationality is a disadvantage (for example, a Chinese tourist in Mongolia or Kazakhstan has more to worry about than a Japanese or Korean one, very generally speaking). The latter isn't unique to Americans.

 

[MarkTwain]

Hey Fastlaners,

This particular question is specifically for the U.S. citizens on the forum. However, if any non-U.S. forum members want to chime in, I'd love to hear your insight, as well:

Do you feel the world has become a more dangerous place for Americans traveling abroad?

Unfortunately, I have not been outside the country since 1998 so I don't feel qualified to answer the question in light of the security measures put in place after 9/11.

Some context.

I was listening to a radio show earlier today and the discussion turned to the current crop of presidential candidates and whether their respective foreign policy ideas and/or experience was sufficient enough to occupy the Oval Office.

The thinking was that the "American People" - I've always hated that phrase. It sounds so..."other" - will not care about individual qualities and outlooks, as much as they're concerned with the macro issues; national security being chief among them.

At the news story's conclusion I thought of this forum, immediately. The international scope of this community, coupled with the intrepid nature of its members made the decision of asking the above question, here, a no-brainer.

@MJ DeMarco, @Vigilante, @AllenCrawley, etc. if this thread is in the wrong location or is out of line, you know what to do and no disrespect meant.

Kindest Regards,
Anthony aka Chitown

Well first of all,most people who see you would not consider you an American,they see an African (if that's actually a pic of you in your avatar) I lived in China and Japan and traveled to Vietnam,Thailand,Taiwan in Asia and Colombia and Brazil in South America and never had any problems at all,y biggest issue was convincing people that there are actually black people who are born and raised in the US (especially when I was in China).

 

[Kung Fu Steve]

Well first of all,most people who see you would not consider you an American,they see an African (if that's actually a pic of you in your avatar) I lived in China and Japan and traveled to Vietnam,Thailand,Taiwan in Asia and Colombia and Brazil in South America and never had any problems at all,y biggest issue was convincing people that there are actually black people who are born and raised in the US (especially when I was in China).

And here I was thinking I was going to go a whole day without hearing some ignorant $#!%...

 

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