Americans...Do You Feel You're In Danger???

[Chitown]

Hey Fastlaners,

This particular question is specifically for the U.S. citizens on the forum. However, if any non-U.S. forum members want to chime in, I'd love to hear your insight, as well:

Do you feel the world has become a more dangerous place for Americans traveling abroad?

Unfortunately, I have not been outside the country since 1998 so I don't feel qualified to answer the question in light of the security measures put in place after 9/11.

Some context.

I was listening to a radio show earlier today and the discussion turned to the current crop of presidential candidates and whether their respective foreign policy ideas and/or experience was sufficient enough to occupy the Oval Office.

The thinking was that the "American People" - I've always hated that phrase. It sounds so..."other" - will not care about individual qualities and outlooks, as much as they're concerned with the macro issues; national security being chief among them.

At the news story's conclusion I thought of this forum, immediately. The international scope of this community, coupled with the intrepid nature of its members made the decision of asking the above question, here, a no-brainer.

@MJ DeMarco, @Vigilante, @AllenCrawley, etc. if this thread is in the wrong location or is out of line, you know what to do and no disrespect meant.

Kindest Regards,
Anthony aka Chitown

 

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[Rawr]

Do you feel the world has become a more dangerous place for Americans traveling abroad?

Too broad of a question, depends on where you're going. Europe, absolutely not. In the end the issue with Americans abroad is that they are too loud and obnoxious. Just being polite and realising you aren't anyone special goes a long way.

 

[biophase]

Do you feel the world has become a more dangerous place for Americans traveling abroad?

I'd say you can visit 90% of the countries out there with absolutely no fear.

 

[Chitown]

I'd say you can visit 90% of the countries out there with absolutely no fear.

That's good to hear.

 

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[Jake]

No.

Well I guess I was in some danger for being an American when in Iraq and Afghanistan but it was to be expected.

 

[Chitown]

Just being polite and realising you aren't anyone special goes a long way.

@Rawr

Well said.

I remember the reception I got from the gentleman selling ice cream at the base of the Eiffel Tower when I attempted to speak the little bit of French I knew at the time. Ice Cream Man lit up, commenting on how beautiful my accent was. I felt like a million bucks!

I shared with him, in contrast, the treatment I received the previous day while having lunch on the Champs Elysees. I ordered the meal - steak frites - without trying to mangle their language and a Frenchman seated nearby looked at me like I was a crackhead trying to steal baby's milk.

How dare I attempt to speak French?

But Ice Cream Man dismissed the other guys' attitude, chalking it up to local Parisian arrogance. He shared that he, too, was Parisian and couldn't stand fellow Parisians who looked down their nose at tourists who at least tried to attempt communicating in the French language.

I came away from my interaction with this man with a couple of lessons I've never forgotten:

1) Showing respect for another culture will earn you serious dividends in ways you'd never imagine. I consider a foreign country someones' home and conduct myself, accordingly. Loud and obnoxious is an alien concept to me.

2) With some obvious exceptions notwithstanding, no matter what one may feel about another countrys' government respective citizens deal with each other on an individual basis and tend to form opinions and judgements based on the person standing before them, not the one entering their homes through news media.

 

[Iwokeup]

@Rawr

Well said.

I remember the reception I got from the gentleman selling ice cream at the base of the Eiffel Tower when I attempted to speak the little bit of French I knew at the time. Ice Cream Man lit up, commenting on how beautiful my accent was. I felt like a million bucks!

I shared with him, in contrast, the treatment I received the previous day while having lunch on the Champs Elysees. I ordered the meal - steak frites - without trying to mangle their language and a Frenchman seated nearby looked at me like I was a crackhead trying to steal baby's milk.

How dare I attempt to speak French?

But Ice Cream Man dismissed the other guys' attitude, chalking it up to local Parisian arrogance. He shared that he, too, was Parisian and couldn't stand fellow Parisians who looked down their nose at tourists who at least tried to attempt communicating in the French language.

I came away from my interaction with this man with a couple of lessons I've never forgotten:

1) Showing respect for another culture will earn you serious dividends in ways you'd never imagine. I consider a foreign country someones' home and conduct myself, accordingly. Loud and obnoxious is an alien concept to me.

2) With some obvious exceptions notwithstanding, no matter what one may feel about another countrys' government respective citizens deal with each other on an individual basis and tend to form opinions and judgements based on the person standing before them, not the one entering their homes through news media.

I've had similar experiences in Mexico, the Middle and Far East: learn a little of the language, what's considered polite/vulgar (including phrases, body language, smile/don't smile) and had wonderful times over and over.

Can't speak yet to Europe, South America...but someday soon!

 

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[Kung Fu Steve]

Do you feel the world has become a more dangerous place for Americans traveling abroad?

I've been outside the U.S. a LOT in the past 5 years. The answer is absolutely not.

@GlobalWealth and I talk about this sometimes. There's not many places either of us wouldn't go. Although I'm probably not going to hang around Belize City, the province of Donetsk, or Afghanistan any time soon.

But yes, most Americans are TERRIFIED of leaving (or even vacationing) outside the U.S. ... in fact MOST people who live in the U.S. have never even left their home state!

@JasonR has been kidnapped in Bali by beautiful women and white sand beaches... does that count as sketchy?

If you want my honest opinion, I'm actually a little uncomfortable being in the U.S. -- sure I can take care of myself but the constant looking over my shoulder to see if police are around to ask me "what I'm doin' round' here, boy!?" or hell, even the two meth-heads who tried to run a scam just yesterday. "We ran out of gas in your drive way... can I give you $5 to go get us gas?"

... seriously? I had to use all my muscle two hold back my two dogs (140 pounder and 130 pounder) from tearing these guys up!

 

[GlobalWealth]

I have A LOT more fear in the US than outside. The US has devolved into a police state and most Americans don't even see it because it has been slowly administered - aka boiling frog syndrome.

I spend most of my time in Eastern Europe and I feel infinitely safer here than even in small town America.

I was in Panama last week and even went on walks in town at night with my 8 year old son. No concerns.


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[Vigilante]

September should be an interesting month in America. Lots of things happening behind the scenes.

 

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[Jake]

If you want my honest opinion, I'm actually a little uncomfortable being in the U.S. -- sure I can take care of myself but the constant looking over my shoulder to see if police are around to ask me "what I'm doin' round' here, boy!?"

I was back in the U.S 2 -3 weeks ago for the first time in nearly 7 years. A bomb may have just gone off a few days ago in the heart of Bangkok but I'm more worried about U.S Police thinking they're Infantryman. It doesn't sit right with me.

My sister rented a place on a lake which pays over $20k a year in property taxes..and we, as well as the owners, were not even allowed to cast a line off the dock. $20k a year in taxes and you still need to pay more money to catch a few fish from your property?

Too much freedom for me..I'll stay in Asia.

 

[biophase]

Most of the time, I feel very comfortable outside the US. It's crazy how nice people are to strangers in other countries compared to the US.

 

[Rawr]

I'm still getting over store clerks in Spain saying Hola and actually meaning it everytime I stop by to buy a coke. (protip, hola, the intonation is on the last syllable - ho-lAh )

When I got to spain, the Russian in me had switched to this 'don't F*ck with me' vibe I was used to in strange situations. I definitely was the scariest person on the island of Mallorca, everyone else was friendly! And I stayed in non tourist area, ate at local places where had to use fingers and bad spanish to order, etc. I will say it a million times, people in Spain are such a huge positive for that country - relaxed, friendly, etc. They could be very stressed with their unemployment rates but they still understand one thing americans seemed to have forgotten - you get one life! The more you choose to act stressed, the less you'll enjoy it.

Even the homeless people are polite here, that's another observation - they sit outside of a grocery store, but it's not that 'I'm a POS, help me!!' vibe, it is more of a 'yep, down on my luck, but still have my pride' vibe.

Apologies to OP to derail the thread.



""I have A LOT more fear in the US than outside. The US has devolved into a police state and most Americans don't even see it because it has been slowly administered - aka boiling frog syndrome. ""

Well said. You don't realize that you don't get to hear people say 'umm..wait a second, aren't *I* the one who makes the choices in my life?" Good or bad, but they're yours!

 

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[jlwilliams]

My travels have been way to limited in general, and specifically I've only been outside the US in Mexico, Canada and Bermuda so my perspective has to be taken with that grain of salt. That said, there is more danger from violence in most American cities than there is in many foreign nations. There are places in any country where it's unwise to be if you aren't from there, but your typical mid sized to large US city has more murder, rape and robbery than many whole nations have.

There is no place in the world where it's safe to be a stupid jackass. Rude behavior can get you beaten or killed in your own home town as well as it can in Timbuktu. If you are a polite, aware, alert individual who uses some good judgment you are going to be widely welcomed.

The statement from the report you heard to the effect that Americans feel less secure and their voting will be influenced by that is true enough; but that is a matter of perspective and not a reflection on international travel. We here in the US have had acts of war committed by individuals who take it upon themselves to answer the call of foreign enemies which is something more or less new to our time. Where people living in the CONUS have been separated from our nations wars by geography for over a century, we now have "lone wolf" shootings or beheadings from time to time. (a plot to behead a police man was busted 20 miles from my home a couple months ago) That reflects a change in life here more than it does a change anywhere else. At the same time, standards of living in other countries are on the rise; so those places are safer than they used to be. The people living on the island where Michael Rockefeller* was eaten 50 years ago have i-phones now and aren't so into boiling passing Americans. Basically, Americans are ill at ease because our homeland is becoming more savage (crime, police brutality, acts of terror) while the rest of the world is becoming more civil. Our well founded paranoia will bleed over into how we see others; but it should really be focused closer to home.




*Here's a link to a story about Michael Rockefeller. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...eir-gutted-cooked-Asmat-tribe-New-Guinea.html

I ask rhetorically, are we somehow less safe than this that happened at a time when the US-of-A was on the top of the respect heap?

 

[Chitown]

But yes, most Americans are TERRIFIED of leaving (or even vacationing) outside the U.S. ... in fact MOST people who live in the U.S. have never even left their home state!

@Kung Fu Steve

One of the pieces of information in the news story I heard had me shaking my head. They mentioned how "Americans were afraid of what was going on in the world". I sat there thinking, "WTF?"

Afraid of the world? 75% of these folks don't even hold passports!

Hell, I'd be willing to bet 90% of the 75% have never left their respective states, let alone their cities. Sad.

If you want my honest opinion, I'm actually a little uncomfortable being in the U.S. -- sure I can take care of myself but the constant looking over my shoulder to see if police are around to ask me "what I'm doin' round' here, boy!?" or hell, even the two meth-heads who tried to run a scam just yesterday. "We ran out of gas in your drive way... can I give you $5 to go get us gas?"

... seriously? I had to use all my muscle two hold back my two dogs (140 pounder and 130 pounder) from tearing these guys up!

The three groups of males who make me nervous, particularly where my sons are concerned:

1) a$$ wipe cops with chips on their shoulders who feel you're supposed to genuflect simply because they tell you to. I've always suspected a lot of cops are power tripping cowards. In fairness, I admit I know some good police officers but I avoid all contact with that group whenever possible. I have never looked to them as protectors.

2) a$$ hats like George Zimmerman. Enough said.

3) a$$ crack black men - mad at the world and don't give a f--k - who deliberately inflict pain on other black men and women because they hate themselves. It's not my or my sons' fault that your Momma got knocked up by a loser.

As for those meth heads, put the dogs on 'em! Motherf--kers are up to no good, rolling up into your driveway, talking about "Here's five dollars. Can you go get us some gas?" So they can break into your home. a$$ wipes.

 

[GlobalWealth]

Don't sugarcoat it @Chitown. We're all adults here.

Sent from my SM-G900FD using Tapatalk

 

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[Chitown]

I have A LOT more fear in the US than outside. The US has devolved into a police state and most Americans don't even see it because it has been slowly administered - aka boiling frog syndrome.

@GlobalWealth

Amen, brotha!

I have this conversation all the time. You ever notice how much the state says you can or can't do? But make a decision with agency and self-determination and it's, "Houston. We have a problem!"

You can't eat this. You can't drink that. You can't travel here. Pay the tax even though the money was earned outside the U.S. WTF?

Parking enforcement wrote me a ticket in front of my own apartment after the street had obviously been cleaned! When I reminded him that the street was cleaned at 9 AM - you can't park on my side of the street, Mondays between 8 AM - 12 Noon - he said I didn't see the big picture. I told him I saw the big picture, clearly. It was a money run for the city.

It burns my a$$ to see people driving around, scrambling for parking spaces because the city wants to fill their coffers while we have to wait for 12 Noon to come around in order to park on a street that was swept hours ago.

My lady and I are having serious discussions about raising our sons outside the U.S. for a while. F--k the bulls--t!

 

[Chitown]

Apologies to OP to derail the thread.

@Rawr

No apologies needed. This is germane to what we're talking about, albeit in an indirect way.

 

[Chitown]

Here's a link to a story about Michael Rockefeller.

I remember reading about this man a year ago. Blew my mind.

 

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[Shades]

September should be an interesting month in America. Lots of things happening behind the scenes.

I have a relative thats going pretty nuts over this and stockpiling food. Are you referring to market things, or religious things? I know some of the religious folks are predicting end times. But that happens every year.

 

[Mattie]

I can over to Europe a woman traveling alone, and I haven't ever had a problem, or been harassed and I've been to Belgium, France, Germany, and Netherlands. Most people don't even know I"m American unless I start talking or tell them.

 

[Kung Fu Steve]

Put it this way, when I first went to the Baltics to meet up with @GlobalWealth (and eventually started living there) his daughter was 14? 15? And I was absolutely AMAZED he would let her walk home by herself at 1 or 2 in the morning from her shows or whatever she was up to.

I was totally freaking out but come to find out Riga is damn near the SAFEST city I've ever been to... ever. The most vicious crime you'll see is if you leave your bike unlocked somewhere and some drunk takes it.

It's pretty safe to say it's unsafe for a young girl (even an older woman) to walk home alone after dark ANYWHERE in the U.S. be it city streets or back country roads - you just don't do it.

But in Riga you can leave your drink sitting on the bar or anywhere really and no one will touch it (I've actually been roofied twice in the states.. I'm pretty but I'm sure I wasn't the intended target).

In Riga you can leave your phone and keys just sitting on your table to go use the restroom and they will actually still be there when you get back. (Even if your friends are sitting at your table, you still never leave anything sitting on the table in the U.S.)

Hell I'm waaaaay out in the country here in Minnesota at the moment before I head to my next destination but I never would have thought two jack-a$$ meth heads would come walking up this driveway (just a funny coincidence it happened when you posted this)!

P.S.

About the Police - I have trained hundreds at this point. And yes there are good ones, but we have to understand they have a vastly different mentality that is bred into them day after day after day.

We all get brainwashed by our environment. Often time lawyers will come home to cross examine their spouse all night for example. Your job/career/business often becomes your identity and it spills into everything else.

The trouble is not just the "militarization" of law enforcement equipment but the programs geared towards providing veterans work when they return home.

Often you'll find the majority of officers have some form of military service under their belt. They were sent to Iraq, they were sent to Afghanistan and even if they didn't directly experience a firefight their beliefs were transformed. "Shoot to kill", "them or me", "anyone brown is going down" -- as insane as these beliefs are in common society -- the job of a soldier is to kill.

It would be a lot tougher for them to carry out their orders if these things didn't exist. I'm definitely not defending it, but I would venture to say the large majority of people who hold a gun and a badge right now have some interesting psychological traits. Their job is not to protect and serve, it's to seek and destroy.

And to finish the thought, even the best-hearted police officers out there are subjected to this environment every day. If everyone around them is ok with shooting first and asking questions later - it won't be long before they justify inside it's okay for them as well. We are our environment.

Anyways I'm off on a tangent so I think I'll go back to work

 

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[M&A]

Eye opener, Pinker is on point.

For all those feeling fearful of the present world.

 

[MarkTwain]

Hey Fastlaners,

This particular question is specifically for the U.S. citizens on the forum. However, if any non-U.S. forum members want to chime in, I'd love to hear your insight, as well:

Do you feel the world has become a more dangerous place for Americans traveling abroad?

Unfortunately, I have not been outside the country since 1998 so I don't feel qualified to answer the question in light of the security measures put in place after 9/11.

Some context.

I was listening to a radio show earlier today and the discussion turned to the current crop of presidential candidates and whether their respective foreign policy ideas and/or experience was sufficient enough to occupy the Oval Office.

The thinking was that the "American People" - I've always hated that phrase. It sounds so..."other" - will not care about individual qualities and outlooks, as much as they're concerned with the macro issues; national security being chief among them.

At the news story's conclusion I thought of this forum, immediately. The international scope of this community, coupled with the intrepid nature of its members made the decision of asking the above question, here, a no-brainer.

@MJ DeMarco, @Vigilante, @AllenCrawley, etc. if this thread is in the wrong location or is out of line, you know what to do and no disrespect meant.

Kindest Regards,
Anthony aka Chitown

Well first of all,most people who see you would not consider you an American,they see an African (if that's actually a pic of you in your avatar) I lived in China and Japan and traveled to Vietnam,Thailand,Taiwan in Asia and Colombia and Brazil in South America and never had any problems at all,y biggest issue was convincing people that there are actually black people who are born and raised in the US (especially when I was in China).

 

[Kung Fu Steve]

Well first of all,most people who see you would not consider you an American,they see an African (if that's actually a pic of you in your avatar) I lived in China and Japan and traveled to Vietnam,Thailand,Taiwan in Asia and Colombia and Brazil in South America and never had any problems at all,y biggest issue was convincing people that there are actually black people who are born and raised in the US (especially when I was in China).

And here I was thinking I was going to go a whole day without hearing some ignorant $#!%...

 

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[MarkTwain]

And here I was thinking I was going to go a whole day without hearing some ignorant $#!%...

And here I was thinking I was going to go a whole day without hearing some ignorant $#!%...

Try hearing it repeatedly for years or having children whom you have taught where you come from in class respond "Cameroon" "Kenya" "Brazil" etc. when asked on a test where their teacher is from.

 

[Chitown]

Well first of all,most people who see you would not consider you an American,they see an African (if that's actually a pic of you in your avatar) I lived in China and Japan and traveled to Vietnam,Thailand,Taiwan in Asia and Colombia and Brazil in South America and never had any problems at all,y biggest issue was convincing people that there are actually black people who are born and raised in the US (especially when I was in China).

@MarkTwain

That is me. Wow! It's incredible, in 2015, that people don't realize there are black folks who originate in the U.S. They probably see only Africans in their daily travels. Interesting.

 

[splok]

I've lived outside of the US for most of the last decade and have visited quite a few countries along the way. I've never felt like I was "in danger" other than the danger of getting myself lost due to not understanding the local public transport system heh.

However, it's important to remember that how we feel often doesn't have much to do with reality. Statistically speaking, hopping on a scooter is probably the most dangerous thing any tourist/expat will ever do.

 

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[MTF]

I have A LOT more fear in the US than outside. The US has devolved into a police state and most Americans don't even see it because it has been slowly administered - aka boiling frog syndrome.

I spend most of my time in Eastern Europe and I feel infinitely safer here than even in small town America.

That's funny. When I read this thread, the first thing I wanted to do was to ask @Chitown if he doesn't feel he's in danger in the US, but I didn't want to derail the thread.

The US (mostly the government) has done a great job at discouraging me from visiting this country (visa issues, airport security procedures, high taxes, rising crime, overregulation, suspicions about everybody). I've never been there, but I'm actually more afraid to go there than to many other places people consider dangerous.

@Chitown, I think you'll enjoy this post: http://www.fluentin3months.com/fear/ Other posters in this thread will probably enjoy it, too. Just a taste:

My time in North America was indeed the one place I’ve felt the least safe out of an entire decade of travelling to over fifty countries, for a few reasons I’ll give below, but also simply because of all the fear mongering the states does so well anyway.

 

[safff]

Well first of all,most people who see you would not consider you an American,they see an African (if that's actually a pic of you in your avatar) I lived in China and Japan and traveled to Vietnam,Thailand,Taiwan in Asia and Colombia and Brazil in South America and never had any problems at all,y biggest issue was convincing people that there are actually black people who are born and raised in the US (especially when I was in China).

Not in the slightest. I live in australia, I've traveled thailand, indonesia, a lot of asia, I'm from the UK, born and bred; and I have darker skin. Every single country I've been to, without exception, including the US, people have assumed I'm from America before hearing me speak.