A Business Burned $60,000 on a Poor Website. Should I Try Help Them?

[Devampre]

I was talking with an old friend the other day and he brought up that the business he works for got some local agency to build them a website. I was somewhat intrigued as I have some front end development knowledge and built a few sites before. So I dug deeper and found out some details about this.

-They charged $60,000
-They delivered 3 websites that were slightly different, but all pretty much looked similar
-It took them over a year to build
-The work was outsourced despite claiming to be built in-house. (not sure how they found this out.)
-And the kicker is that most of it isn't functional or what was agreed to in the sales agreement.

I tried to see if there would be anyway for me to provide help, but my friend said that another employee was going to try fix it and get it up and running. I think I'll follow up later if I don't see any changes to their website. But, the thing that baffles me is how a company like this could charge that rate for such a terrible result.

Now, I don't claim to be an expert in this field. But, I feel like there would be a way to get them a quality result for a fraction of that price and still make a decent profit. I feel like this website agency outsourced to the cheapest worker(s) without doing their due diligence. But, I could be wrong.

1. Have you heard any anecdotes similar to this?
2. Do you think I should be persistent to offer them help? Or do you think being burned for $60,000 might make it difficult for them to trust someone else?

 

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[Enock Nalumoso]

Ok my honest opinion on the matter is these guys f*cked up don't offer help esp now that they deflected you first offer incase they go to court you don't want to be near that mess in any way or form

 

[PizzaOnTheRoof]

Nope. Nope. Nope.

 

[Devampre]

Ok my honest opinion on the matter is these guys f*cked up don't offer help esp now that they deflected you first offer incase they go to court you don't want to be near that mess in any way or form

Yeah, that's one of the reasons I didn't approach the owner directly yet. My friend was a little unsure whether or not there will be any legal action. Plus I feel like since my friend works there, his recommendation would be better than me trying to cold approach (especially right now.)

 

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[Johnny boy]

The key is to stop thinking small. People who make 100k from a website are not 100x smarter or better than people who charge 1k for a website, they just believe it'll work out and can somewhat deliver.

Stop freelancing. Become a company. There's no reason you can't come in as a consultant for a large corporation and get paid a million dollars.

If a company can be convinced to screw themselves out of 60k on a bad website then you can do something a little better for a little less and be improving on the current state of things. That's inspirational.

 

[Devampre]

The key is to stop thinking small. People who make 100k from a website are not 100x smarter or better than people who charge 1k for a website, they just believe it'll work out and can somewhat deliver.

Stop freelancing. Become a company. There's no reason you can't come in as a consultant for a large corporation and get paid a million dollars.

If a company can be convinced to screw themselves out of 60k on a bad website then you can do something a little better for a little less and be improving on the current state of things. That's inspirational.

Very true. I would like to get in with them and help.

I can either:
a) Wait for my friend to refer me (assuming the other employee is incapable of correcting the problem.)
b)Try contact the owner directly and see if I could help them with the website.

My concern with option a is that it feels like it's in that grey area between action faking and patience.
My concern with option b is that the owner may be reluctant to pay any more money on the website after what has happened.

 

[Johnny boy]

Very true. I would like to get in with them and help.

I can either:
a) Wait for my friend to refer me (assuming the other employee is incapable of correcting the problem.)
b)Try contact the owner directly and see if I could help them with the website.

My concern with option a is that it feels like it's in that grey area between action faking and patience.
My concern with option b is that the owner may be reluctant to pay any more money on the website after what has happened.

Market yourself the same way as the firm that took advantage of them did, find a similar company like the dumb one that lost 60k, and just do what they do but in a way that doesn't violate your conscience. You could make just as much.

 

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[Devampre]

Market yourself the same way as the firm that took advantage of them did, find a similar company like the dumb one that lost 60k, and just do what they do but in a way that doesn't violate your conscience. You could make just as much.

Good third option. Perhaps I'll try inquire more about the other firms strategies. I don't have the social proof/portfolio they do, but I'm sure there is a way to get that first client by a similar means.

 

[Rabby]

2. Do you think I should be persistent to offer them help? Or do you think being burned for $60,000 might make it difficult for them to trust someone else?

If you're doing sales for your own freelance operation or business, watch out for this way of thinking. You're walking on eggshells, talking yourself out of sales. If they don't want help, push a little and let them tell you so. Not in a rude way, but you can't be afraid to tell someone "you didn't get what you paid for at all; let me show you how it's supposed to be done. Tuesday at 10am Ok?" It's no loss if they say "nah, we'll handle it." It frees you up to think about the next prospect. Leave a card, ask how they're doing in a few weeks maybe, but don't sit around ruminating about what they'll think.

 

[SkyLake]

How on earth does a website take a year to build? It doesn't make sense. If it was this huge web project that took a year to build, then they charged very little.

But a 60k project in one year? Nonsense.

I would stay away, it's better not to touch something that stinks so strong. You could find yourself under a huge pile of shit...


Anyway. Charging these prices for a website is nothing new. The guys who are charging 60k+ are not selling websites, they are selling something else (more ways to make money, more customers, saving time, etc.).

And yes like Johnny said they are not smarter than the guys charging 1k, they just operate as a business should. They think big and take bigger risks. I can't see anybody who can survive selling 1k websites.


Charge more! Always remember this. You won't ever hit the Fastlane selling services for 1k. Aim higher, 10k, 20k, 100k.

 

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[Devampre]

If you're doing sales for your own freelance operation or business, watch out for this way of thinking. You're walking on eggshells, talking yourself out of sales. If they don't want help, push a little and let them tell you so. Not in a rude way, but you can't be afraid to tell someone "you didn't get what you paid for at all; let me show you how it's supposed to be done. Tuesday at 10am Ok?" It's no loss if they say "nah, we'll handle it." It frees you up to think about the next prospect. Leave a card, ask how they're doing in a few weeks maybe, but don't sit around ruminating about what they'll think.

I don't have any freelance operation/business pertaining to website development/design. I'm just a guy that knows a little bit about building/designing them; and I also understand that going with the cheapest outsourcing option is not ideal if they don't have a reputation for delivering results.

I believe I will touch base with them and offer them a solution for much less. However, I am hoping that my friend will make mention of me to the owner as that will make everything flow much easier. If he says nothing, then perhaps I will cold call/dm/email the owner.

How on earth does a website take a year to build? It doesn't make sense. If it was this huge web project that took a year to build, then they charged very little.

But a 60k project in one year? Nonsense.

I would stay away, it's better not to touch something that stinks so strong. You could find yourself under a huge pile of shit...


Anyway. Charging these prices for a website is nothing new. The guys who are charging 60k+ are not selling websites, they are selling something else (more ways to make money, more customers, saving time, etc.).

And yes like Johnny said they are not smarter than the guys charging 1k, they just operate as a business should. They think big and take bigger risks. I can't see anybody who can survive selling 1k websites.


Charge more! Always remember this. You won't ever hit the Fastlane selling services for 1k. Aim higher, 10k, 20k, 100k.

I'm all for charging more, but starting out with a tiny portfolio with no noteworthy clients can make the 100k close a little difficult. I feel that snowballing the pricing at the beginning would allow one to be able to charge significantly more later on. So while a $1000 website isn't going to setup a fastlane business, it could be a good way to get a start toward getting more high ticket clients. It builds social proof.

I understand the arguments for starting at high prices too. I just feel that relies heavier on the numbers game.

If anyone has insights about whether it makes sense to start with high prices or to snowball pricing once one establishes themselves with a more professional portfolio; I'm all ears.

Edit: I have a feeling that being generous to well connected people, such as this owner, may be a good move. He's had an established automotive business for 20+ years. Knows a lot of other people in the city. So I prefer not be overly transactional with him. I will still charge him of course, but I won't expect $60,000

 

[Damien C]

Why would you do that? They've spent all their money and you'll end up reporting to a scorn, horrible person who wants to claw back every single dollar at your expense.

 

[Barry_M]

ive had companies call me saying (n so many words) "hey barry, I just got a website designed, spent all this money on it and got ripped off as the website (usually some wordpress knock off that they cant control as they have no clue how to operate as they are less that learned in technical aspects) isnt working for us and we arnt getting found on Google so now that we have pretty much no money left, can you give us a good deal?"..

They got them selves in to the shitfest and want me to give them discount. They should have came to me first.

The point is, they should have came to you first and they wouldn't have been in the mess they are in. You wont get the 60K from them or anything like it. Avoid them.

 

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[Successful Steve]

I was talking with an old friend the other day and he brought up that the business he works for got some local agency to build them a website. I was somewhat intrigued as I have some front end development knowledge and built a few sites before. So I dug deeper and found out some details about this.

-They charged $60,000
-They delivered 3 websites that were slightly different, but all pretty much looked similar
-It took them over a year to build
-The work was outsourced despite claiming to be built in-house. (not sure how they found this out.)
-And the kicker is that most of it isn't functional or what was agreed to in the sales agreement.

I tried to see if there would be anyway for me to provide help, but my friend said that another employee was going to try fix it and get it up and running. I think I'll follow up later if I don't see any changes to their website. But, the thing that baffles me is how a company like this could charge that rate for such a terrible result.

Now, I don't claim to be an expert in this field. But, I feel like there would be a way to get them a quality result for a fraction of that price and still make a decent profit. I feel like this website agency outsourced to the cheapest worker(s) without doing their due diligence. But, I could be wrong.

1. Have you heard any anecdotes similar to this?
2. Do you think I should be persistent to offer them help? Or do you think being burned for $60,000 might make it difficult for them to trust someone else?

$60,000 on 3 websites and a year to build????!!!

That just sounds plain crazy. They need a new CFO.

 

[DustinH]

Someone will pay $60,000 for a website? Maybe I'm in the wrong business and need to learn HTML5 and CSS.

 

[Fastlane Liam]

Market yourself the same way as the firm that took advantage of them did, find a similar company like the dumb one that lost 60k, and just do what they do but in a way that doesn't violate your conscience. You could make just as much.

So the advice here is to take advantage of suckers?

 

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[Digamma]

Edit: I have a feeling that being generous to well connected people, such as this owner, may be a good move. He's had an established automotive business for 20+ years. Knows a lot of other people in the city. So I prefer not be overly transactional with him. I will still charge him of course, but I won't expect $60,000

Yikes. No, I'm sorry, but no.

This is business. It's transactional. It needs to be transactional.

Go there, solve the problem, get paid commensurately to the problem you solved.

You know the website was worth 60k to them.

How much is fixing this mess worth?

What's it gonna take?

You mention he's connected and you want to leverage that -- who is he going to respect more, the guy who solved his $60k problem flawlessly for a reasonable, professional fee, or the shmuck who was scared of asking for money?

Do you think people offer their connections and referrals to shmucks?

---

What I don't get is why people in this thread are running their imagination so much.
"They won't pay you."
"Stay away."

These people spent 60k on shit and won't pay someone to fix the problem?
Are you people drunk? Or are you just roleplaying and never did a business deal?

How about you people stop projecting your own shit and face reality?

You can't possibly know the future.

Go there. Talk to them. We don't know. We can't know.

 

[Johnny boy]

So the advice here is to take advantage of suckers?

Making money through a consensual transaction without misrepresentation or fraud isn't a crime.

Employees want to do as little work as possible for the most money. Customers want to pay as little as possible for the most work performed. Businesses want to make the most money while spending as little as possible in the process. Each entity has its own motivations and interests and should be reasonably expected to pursue those interests as aggressively as possible within the confines of the law, without misrepresentation or fraud. The compromise between these separate ambitions between each party is what results in a market equilibrium.

I would mow lawns for $1,000,000 per acre if someone would pay me that much to do it. I would pay an employee $0 an hour to do so if it didn't result in a loss of revenue in the process. I would also pay 0% of my profit to taxes if it were possible to do so legally. But I can't. I HAVE to charge only as much as someone is willing to pay, I HAVE to pay an employee at least the lowest rate that they will perform the work for, and I HAVE to pay a portion of my profits to the government.

My customers would have me mow the entire united states for free if I'd do it. My employees would want to get paid $1,000,000 an hour for sitting at home if I'd pay them to do it. That's the market. It will decimate you.

If someone wants to pay someone $60k for a website, and you can reasonably deliver on what you agree upon for the quality of the website, then you should absolutely do it. You're not their mommy, their savior, their CEO. You are a person offering a service and the market is asking to give you lots of money. Only a emotionally immature person would turn that down. It has more to do with not feeling you deserve to be wealthy. That's a personal problem. I don't have that problem.

 

[Mr4213]

I was talking with an old friend the other day and he brought up that the business he works for got some local agency to build them a website. I was somewhat intrigued as I have some front end development knowledge and built a few sites before. So I dug deeper and found out some details about this.

-They charged $60,000
-They delivered 3 websites that were slightly different, but all pretty much looked similar
-It took them over a year to build
-The work was outsourced despite claiming to be built in-house. (not sure how they found this out.)
-And the kicker is that most of it isn't functional or what was agreed to in the sales agreement.

I tried to see if there would be anyway for me to provide help, but my friend said that another employee was going to try fix it and get it up and running. I think I'll follow up later if I don't see any changes to their website. But, the thing that baffles me is how a company like this could charge that rate for such a terrible result.

Now, I don't claim to be an expert in this field. But, I feel like there would be a way to get them a quality result for a fraction of that price and still make a decent profit. I feel like this website agency outsourced to the cheapest worker(s) without doing their due diligence. But, I could be wrong.

1. Have you heard any anecdotes similar to this?
2. Do you think I should be persistent to offer them help? Or do you think being burned for $60,000 might make it difficult for them to trust someone else?

I actually came across a Facebook "entrepreneur" group recently that promotes creating companies like this.

Most of the people that create crap like this are wantentrepreneurs chasing money.

In the group I came across, an "entrepreneur" created a "free" (sales funnel) PDF that showed people how to start these.

This dude had the audacity to claim that it's easy to generate 40 cases for lawyers in 4 months, generating them $500k in cases within that 4 month period. His suggested price for the service? $135,000 for 4 months. He then talked about how it would be easier to lock lawyers into a 12 month contract and instead of doing the work in 4 months, do it in 12.

He talked about all the ways to market it, to lock in a contract.

You know what he didn't talk about? How you actually create 40 sales within 4 months. His whole idea was based on the assumption that you can just create $500k in sales within four months like it's nothing.

These scams are everywhere. They focus on advertising perceived value instead of real value.

To answer your question though. I would first identify if there is a real problem that needs solving. If they have someone already fixing it (to the correct standard) then your help might not be needed.

What I would do is dig around and figure out how they are fixing it and see if you notice any problems with it. If you find problems I would persist.

Or, if you find problems and you know you can fix it. Then offer the service for free or at a heavily discounted price. Show them you aren't a scammer. If you do a good job then they will love it and it could lead to more business for you. They had someone scam them and leave a bad taste. So if someone comes in and solves it for almost nothing, they would be far likelier to refer you to people.

Or, figure out exactly what the problems are and how you would fix it. Then take it to them and see where it goes. Showing up with actual results instead of talking about them goes far.

 

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[Sadik]

@Devampre you have received some good and some not so good advice on this thread.

I have freelanced for several years, have built dozens of very high value websites and have dealt with clients who have spent over 100,000 on a single website some of whom have taken more than a single year to build. You don't have to trust me, I don't care.

But, I think there are some things I could tell you here from my experience that can help you.

1> Most posts in this thread are talking about the money. Does anyone actually care about the work and the client? If you really want to win long term, start caring as much for the client as much as you care for your own benefit.

2> The owner you said is a successful guy. Chances are 60K is a minuscule amount for him. He has probably already put it behind him as a learning experience. He probably doesn't care as much about the amount paid as the fact that his website isn't working the way he wants.

3> You say that you don't have much experience building sites. A website can be as complex as an amazon or as simple as a single page html5. What kind of website is this? Do you think Amazon.com will take less than a year to build from scratch? for less than $60K? Nothing is cheap or expensive. There's only relative value. How complex is this site? Are you 200% confident you can build this with everything they want?

4> Your friend is most probably NOT gonna say anything to his boss. If the website is a disaster, do you think an employee would risk referring someone to fix it? If you think he will refer you, chances are you are wrong.

5> If you are CONFIDENT you can do a GREAT job on the website, can handle whatever complications come in, write an email to the boss, something like the below:

---------------------
Subject: Spoke with Robby (your friend's name) about XYZ.com

Hi,

I am Shaun. I am a friend of Robby's and I am web developer. The other day, Robby mentioned how XYZ.com was having some issues and it really piqued my interest. I took a look at XYZ and to put it lightly, I noticed some grave issues. I know you have your tech guy taking care of it, but since I already did take a look at this, could your tech guy spare maybe 10 mins and I would give him some pointers on things I would do to fix the abc, xyz, pqr etc. issues. (list some of the actual issues here)

If not, no problems, wishing you all the best for XYZ.

Best Regards,
Shaun
----------------------

There is no way in hell that if the owner is gonna see this email that you don't get a reply back. Your job then is to meet the tech guy and have your solutions ready. Genuinely, sincerely with care for the client in your heart, tell the tech guy what's wrong with the site and how to fix it.

99.99% the tech guy doesn't know how to do this and you will be hired to do the full job yourself at any good price you ask. I would ask for 30K at least and have a maintenance recurring cost built in the contract.

All the Best...