'1%' CEO Confronts Occupy Protesters

[Rickson9]

The bottom line is that humans have yet to produce a fair and equitable system for running a society. The evidence is the wasteland of collapsed civilizations over the course of our history on this planet. This rise and fall of civilizations will happen ad infinitum. There is no solution. It is inevitable. My only wish is that I am long dead when it happens again.

The arguments presented in this thread have been repeated since the dawn of society. There is no solution here.

 

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[winch]

All systems ultimately are flawed. There may not be a perfect solution, but there are most likely more appropriate ones than the current.

Not that OWS actually HAS one. But the point stands regardless.

 

[Pat]

Anarchy - Monarchy - Democracy

An endless cycle as history proves.

The only system I could see working would be some kind of democracy where you get a vote based on how much taxes you pay. But not with the current population and their mindset...

Am I the only one that would not really mind a collapse of the system? It would definitely open up a lot of opportunities.

 

[chudnovsky]

The only system I could see working would be some kind of democracy where you get a vote based on how much taxes you pay

why on earth would such a system work better than the current one? what does paying more taxes have to do with one's capacity to comprehend and improve the system?

I think it is very unfortunate the way our system currently works and we should do everything that is within our means to try to improve it (like putting financial-criminals and corrupted politicians in jail). But I don't think it's a cycle, it's not even a status quo. Simply, it's a slow and painful evolution towards a better and more efficient system. The evolution of economy, society, technology is no different from biological evolution.... it's a constant process of trial & error towards more profitable states....unless you are a creationist and do not believe in evolution: in that case I don't have an answer for you, but you can look around for conspiracy theories!

 

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[Pete799p]

Am I the only one that would not really mind a collapse of the system? It would definitely open up a lot of opportunities.

At this point the sooner the better lets get it over with while I am still young enough. The only problem is you better be a country boy cause it is going to get real ugly real fast. I believe it was Hank Jr. that said "a country boy can survive."

For opportunities I fancy myself quite the fly fisherman. Not bad with the plow either.

The only system I could see working would be some kind of democracy where you get a vote based on how much taxes you pay. But not with the current population and their mindset.

This is pretty much what we have today the wealthiest= pay the most taxes purchase lobbyist that then bribe the government to carry out their agenda while distracting the general public by debating moral issues. What we need is to return the constitution to it original purpose/power which was to limit government power and let capitalism flourish.

 

[Brootal]

Not to get into the argument of the OWS crowd, but one thing I do immediately notice is that the focus seems to be to general and on the banks and crooks only. No doubt that the people who are generating their wealth by being crooked should be brought down.

However; I recall seeing an article stating that to be in the top 1%, one had to have an adjusted gross income of something like 350k, although at the bottom end of the 1%.

If I think about the people that I personally know hitting 350k or more a year, they damn sure aren't all CEO's of banks or got there by being a crook. Hell, most of them have fairly ordinary businesses. A few examples to put things in perspective:

-One owns an auto parts recycling company (which he started)
-One owns his own chiropractic office with another office that recently opened across town (which he started)
-One owns a very large Honda motorsports dealership (second generation, family owned)
-and the last that I can personally confirm is pulling those numbers owns a chain of furniture stores (started with brother and bought him out).

Thinking about these guys, I can't imagine penalizing them for what they have achieved.

My focus right now isn't on anything other than what I am currently doing to become one of the top 1%

 

[Pat]

why on earth would such a system work better than the current one? what does paying more taxes have to do with one's capacity to comprehend and improve the system?

I think it is very unfortunate the way our system currently works and we should do everything that is within our means to try to improve it (like putting financial-criminals and corrupted politicians in jail). But I don't think it's a cycle, it's not even a status quo. Simply, it's a slow and painful evolution towards a better and more efficient system. The evolution of economy, society, technology is no different from biological evolution.... it's a constant process of trial & error towards more profitable states....unless you are a creationist and do not believe in evolution: in that case I don't have an answer for you, but you can look around for conspiracy theories!

Because people would have a reason to contribute. The current system rewards not making money with welfare and such things. A good example is child support. The rich people pay the poor people's child support with their taxes. If a rich guy has to pay child support, it is in relation to what he earns, not what the kid needs. It would only make sense if there is a set amount that you have to pay per kid. Can't pay it? Don't make kids!

If we keep going like this, we will reduce capable people while making more system abusers through a simple evolutionary process. The system will collapse as soon as the capable people can't support the abusers anymore.

Those stupid laws exist because everyone has one vote. So laws get passed that seem to profit the masses. If everyone could vote according to what they contribute to society, such laws would not get passed. There might be other factors preventing the system from working though but it's hard to tell without a real life example. Using media/bribing to influence the results has not the same effect (as people will only use that for personal profit, why else risk/pay it?)

The current system, while it calls itself capitalism, is actually far away from being a free market.

If the system collapses those so called 99% will be the first ones to starve to death (or if they get lucky someone uses them to take advantage of). So it's pretty stupid for them to protest against the current system without having a better alternative.

I believe in survival of the fittest. Sadly currently poor people are fit best in this environment. Not a good thing long term. You might ask why I want to get rich then. Money = Power = The ability to make a change

 

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[chudnovsky]

@Pat

Ok now I get you're point, and what you're saying makes sense.

The fact that the current systems favors the masses (the 99%) may be true for some countries such as Switzerland, Norway, Sweden, where the people are actually engaged in major political choices, so to a certain degree, there is a "democracy" meaning that the people are in control. But look no further than in Italy and you'll see that "democracy" is just a misused term to give the masses the illusion that they are in control and they have freedom, or as Pete799p described the way the american system works.

I also believe that not everyone's vote should be given the same weight, because some simply don't have enough knowledge of, interest or impact in the society they live in. But I don't think that the criteria should only be "how much taxes" you pay. Being wealthy doesn't make you smart and such a system would give the wealthiest too much power and enslave and impoverish the 99% even more than they are now. Remember that you need the 99% in order to get rich and stay rich!

Anyway, no matter how wrong or dysfunctional the current situation may be, the biggest motivator for me is that everyday I think of how fortunate I am to be living in a western country and how the only thing separating me from money that have my name on it is my lack of taking action, and limiting beliefs. Some people are simply born with a huge disadvantage in the quest of acquiring wealth, and will never get rich, no matter how bad they want it!

 

[DeletedUser394]

And so it begins once again..

 

[DeletedUser397]

I'm subscribed to Schiff's channel on Youtube, so I saw this a while back. I totally agree with him, and I'm glad he did this.

 

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[joona]

Yes, politics and politicians are definitely a problem. I would never argue that. However, I'm not convinced regulation will solve all the problems at hand.

Government regulation/involvement in an industry often stifles productivity and/or innovation. Not cool. Of course, laissez-faire exclusively most likely could not solve the current needs of society. The beauty is probably somewhere in the balance.

I completely agree with you on the regulation/involvement thing. However, I think financial services would be the exception to that, as they have so much power that affects the whole society, from the poor guy to the rich as well as whole nations. I am from Europe and seeing this whole Euro crisis just makes this more obvious. Basically Europe is in deep shit because of a) loose morals of some nations and b) complicated financial landscape where the ones benefiting (=banks) don't pay any consequenses of their actions and thus can take huge risks.

 

[Rickson9]

It's like watching a dog chase it's own tail.

 

[Brander]

The arguments presented in this thread have been repeated since the dawn of society. There is no solution here.

It's like saying in the time of ancient Rome - "The arguments for a society without slavery have been repeated since the dawn of time, and there are no civilisations that have ever worked without slavery. A civilisation is impossible without slavery."

If the world worked like that then our society would still have slavery, but it doesn't, so - things change, people change and it starts with parenting in early childhood.

Will it happen soon? Probably not in my lifetime, but it will happen, a lot of emancipation has happened throughout history, we only have one left - emancipation from government.

Am I too optimistic? With the current crop of humans - most definitely, most are still too indoctrinated.

Will it get worse before it gets better? You can bet on it - people need to experience severe pain, they need to look death in the eye sometimes to see their circumstance for what it is and change their ways.

 

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[winch]

Those stupid laws exist because everyone has one vote. So laws get passed that seem to profit the masses. If everyone could vote according to what they contribute to society, such laws would not get passed. There might be other factors preventing the system from working though but it's hard to tell without a real life example. Using media/bribing to influence the results has not the same effect (as people will only use that for personal profit, why else risk/pay it?)

(Emphasis mine)

Money directly proportional to one's voting power? I bet there's never been a political system that had that in history.

Oh wait...

If the system collapses those so called 99% will be the first ones to starve to death (or if they get lucky someone uses them to take advantage of). So it's pretty stupid for them to protest against the current system without having a better alternative.

Hold on a second. This statistically does not make sense. In a huge event like that, the vast majority is going to demise first based on... what?

If the system truly collapses, I would bet that whether you were in the 1% or not will have little to do with your survival.

 

[winch]

And so it begins once again..

Oh come on, it never really stopped did it? :smx4:

 

[Pat]

(Emphasis mine)

Money directly proportional to one's voting power? I bet there's never been a political system that had that in history.

Hold on a second. This statistically does not make sense. In a huge event like that, the vast majority is going to demise first based on... what?

If the system truly collapses, I would bet that whether you were in the 1% or not will have little to do with your survival.

This is getting stupid...

I was referring to those people who call themselves the 99%, not 99% of the population. How can you categorize a whole population just by their income?

And yes, those wimpy guys who only know how to complain and demand something for nothing. How will they survive by themselves with no nanny state taking care of them?

 

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[andviv]

For all intents and purposes, how is that not an coherent OWS case?

A decentralized movement such as this one is going to be susceptible to people being involved that, while they feel there is something not right about Gov't/Wall Street ties, they can't fully articulate it. And they shouldn't necessarily have to for the issues at hand to be valid.

Does it really take a massive group of people articulating it clearly for people to be convinced that the financial sector currently doesn't have to play by the same rules as the rest of us--and surely it's to their benefit?

winch, please note that all I am asking for is 1. Not a massive group of articulate people. Just one. Based on what I can get from your post, you are an excellent example. I think this movement needs you, or people like you, to make the case out there.

And in all fairness, we haven't heard everybody in the crowd. Just the very, very small minority the press has chosen to focus on at times.

Agreed. But this youtube video does not look like a press/news video, more like somebody's camera recording. Am I wrong? If so, why aren't we seeing the strong, coherent arguments from the articulate people circulating around?
Why is it that not even the left-wing news are not showing that?

Without a strong case made in public it is hard to see the movement as nothing more like sore losers. And believe me, I am with you. A lot of people should be in jail. I believe it. I strongly agree.

Largest Banks Likely Profited By Borrowing From Federal Reserve, Lending To Federal Government


This is Federal money they're borrowing. They borrow it for peanuts, and they proceed to lend it back out for anything but.

They make a bad investments and are about to go belly up, and get bailed out courtesy of the taxpayers.

That would NEVER happen for an individual. This is the problem; there's a dichotomy between how the financial sector and the people are treated.

Yep, point taken and well understood.

In fact, in the past we have had conversations here in the forum about that same point. I, for one, think being a bank is a great thing. These advantages are amazing.

And again, going back to the original point, without the clear message out there, without the smart, articulate people like you out there, the movement is dead.

Get my point?

 

[Likwid24]

I thought political arguments are suppose to be banned from this forum. Everyone should stop worrying about the 1% and the 99% and start worrying about making the necessary changes in your life to become part of the 1%.

Isn't that why we're all on this forum? To become successful and become part of the 1%?

Go to a Slowlane Forum to argue about this CRAP!

 

[ashj1893]

What. A. F*cking. Master.

 

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[s_sherrell]

For all of you supporting this guy confronting the protesters, I can bet you have as limited knowledge of what went down over the past decade as those protesting! Seriously, read up on what went on. Wall St found loopholes to make absolute fortunes. They knew it was a house of cards and didn't care. One trader who was buying mortgage backed securities made $150k as an insurance actuary. He goes to Lehman and gets a percentage of all his portfolio. So he buys billions of crap, he knew was crap, and made himself $20 million!
I just happen to be one who likes to know what really happened. I am not marching or anything. However, if you think the bankers of the last 10 years got rich from good ol' capitalism, you are sadly mistaken.
And for those who talk about how government sucks, yeah it sure does until your house catches on fire, or your daughter is assaulted. Or how about when they sell a product and someone does not pay them? They sure don't hate taking them to the government courts and force honoring of the contract. Oh and when these 'capitalists' self sufficient people get in trouble they cry to get bailed out. People are not protesting in the streets of Silicon Valley. Being rich is not a bad thing to any American. Screwing people and getting away with it tends to cite some anger. Even if they don't know all the facts, they know the system is broken. I am just saying...

 

[rc08234]

For all of you supporting this guy confronting the protesters, I can bet you have as limited knowledge of what went down over the past decade as those protesting!

False

And for those who talk about how government sucks, yeah it sure does until your house catches on fire, or your daughter is assaulted.

As far as if your house catches on fire, I really doubt the government gives a shit. Red cross might support you with shelter and food for a little while, but after that if you don't have insurance your SOL. They might even give you tax breaks the first year....how nice of them. The legal system is just as corrupt as the finincial system.....with the average trail of a murder case costing of 17 million dollars.

Oh and when these 'capitalists' self sufficient people get in trouble they cry to get bailed out.

They played the system, and they won. How about all the people that sponge off medicare, unemployment and welfare?? These things cost taxpayers literally billions are year. They just do it on a smaller scale so it's alright. Food stamp scams alone costs taxpayers over 300 million a year. They are the 99% so they arn't bitching about it...even though the 1% is paying helps pay for all that shit.

 

[s_sherrell]

They played the system and won? What did they do differently than Bernie Madoff? That is the anger. They knew they were part of a house of cards. Where do you think that money came from? Hint, pension funds. The money did not come from speculators. You say it is false that you do not know the facts of what happened in the real estate boom/bust. Tell me your version (it better include Ireland, so don't give me that Fannie and Freddie government is bad junk).
I don't think you understood my fire comment. That government/commie/socialist fire department will come and take care of your fire. Of course you can just let private companies did it. That is what they had when the Chicago fire hit. If you didn't have a medallion showing in your house then they passed you by. However, fire seemed to spread... Listen I am just saying those who cry foul about the governement take it for granted every day. I just find it amusing that it is really bad until they depend on it.
I don't think most OWS know what went down. They just feel angry. I just wish people all understood the facts on both sides. We have to agree that we cannot let what happened occur again. We are a better country than that...I hope.

 

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[rc08234]

They played the system and won? What did they do differently than Bernie Madoff? That is the anger. They knew they were part of a house of cards. Where do you think that money came from? Hint, pension funds. The money did not come from speculators. You say it is false that you do not know the facts of what happened in the real estate boom/bust. Tell me your version (it better include Ireland, so don't give me that Fannie and Freddie government is bad junk).
I don't think you understood my fire comment. That government/commie/socialist fire department will come and take care of your fire. Of course you can just let private companies did it. That is what they had when the Chicago fire hit. If you didn't have a medallion showing in your house then they passed you by. However, fire seemed to spread... Listen I am just saying those who cry foul about the governement take it for granted every day. I just find it amusing that it is really bad until they depend on it.
I don't think most OWS know what went down. They just feel angry. I just wish people all understood the facts on both sides. We have to agree that we cannot let what happened occur again. We are a better country than that...I hope.

I thought you were saying the guy in the video knew less, but either way, it's still false because I know more than most OWSers. The real estate bust/boom came from banks/mortgage companies giving out a ton of loans at teasers rates. They then turn around and sell them to people like Merril Lynch that packaged these mortgages into bonds, but they did it with bonds with AAA ratings which had many levels to hide how poor they actuallywere. So when the girl that owned 7 townhouses defaulted on her mortgage because they were no longer teaser rates the entire system started to collapse.

Yeah I was missing your point with the government. But even fire departments are corrupt anymore. Tell me how a guy can save up alll his sick days and then cash them out when he is going to retire? He is originally making x.xx and hour with x amount of sick days. He gets a raise, retires and now his x.xx an hour sick days are paid out a the new pay rate. xx.xx even if these sick days are 20 years old.

I agree that most OWS don't know what went down, and that is what really bothers me. I commend them for protesting and standing up for a cause, but the fact of the matter is they don't even really know the cause. By them not knowing the cause they are unjustly angry. You can't have a bunch of kids, who honestly I wouldn't even hire because of they way they look protesting for something they don't know about. Jay-z put out a t-shirt that said occupy all streets. Jay-z is a 1%er and the company that produces them are publicly traded on the NASDAQ. These protesters were buying them up left and right, how f-ing stupid is that.

And this was a whole lot bigger than Bernie Madoff, and thats why they got away with it. The amount of money people made is ridiculous, and you can bet everyone from the analyst to the heads of government made money off it some way or another.

 

[458]

How about some comic relief?

[video=youtube;N95IMKRkcBw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N95IMKRkcBw[/video]


[video=youtube;zR1jTuGm7ok]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zR1jTuGm7ok&feature=related[/video]


[video=youtube;gnZCFnuZIcs]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gnZCFnuZIcs&feature=related[/video]

 

[winch]

Hi andviv, I do get what you're saying. While I too am awaiting a nice case made from someone on the ground to show up on YouTube or where ever, we'll probably never hear it. As others have noted, while maybe it started with good roots, it appears to be getting diluted now with those looking for a hand-me-out.

I'm not an OWS supporter by any means, but if push comes to shove I sure as hell would NOT side with Wall Street. That's been my only point (as much as it probably got lost in my excessively long replies).

winch, please note that all I am asking for is 1. Not a massive group of articulate people. Just one. Based on what I can get from your post, you are an excellent example. I think this movement needs you, or people like you, to make the case out there.


Agreed. But this youtube video does not look like a press/news video, more like somebody's camera recording. Am I wrong? If so, why aren't we seeing the strong, coherent arguments from the articulate people circulating around?
Why is it that not even the left-wing news are not showing that?

Without a strong case made in public it is hard to see the movement as nothing more like sore losers. And believe me, I am with you. A lot of people should be in jail. I believe it. I strongly agree.


Yep, point taken and well understood.

In fact, in the past we have had conversations here in the forum about that same point. I, for one, think being a bank is a great thing. These advantages are amazing.

And again, going back to the original point, without the clear message out there, without the smart, articulate people like you out there, the movement is dead.

Get my point?

 

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[winch]

This is getting stupid...

Agreed.

I was referring to those people who call themselves the 99%, not 99% of the population. How can you categorize a whole population just by their income?

And yes, those wimpy guys who only know how to complain and demand something for nothing. How will they survive by themselves with no nanny state taking care of them?

Though the bolded part was clear IMO, the rest of your post's language had some ambiguity. Don't be surprised if it gets misinterpreted. (It wasn't done purposely just to be a dick)

 

[Simon Ashari]

I follow Peter Schiff on youtube. Great guy full of common sense.

Unfortunately he rarely lets other people get a word in.

However he is a fastlaner himself who sells his books and owns a company.

-Simon

 

[Rickson9]

For a more intelligent perspective from a fellow Fastlaner:

Millionaire's Island

 

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[Pinnacle]

I'll do you one better: Videos

 

[Guest1254]

Adam Carolla explains the OWS Generation - YouTube