How to deal with a teen who doesn't value traditional education

[biggeemac]

Yep, my title pretty much sums it up. My 14 y/o boy does NOT value his education. How do I, as a parent who also doesn't value education in the traditional public school/college sense, convince him that it is important for him to do well in school? Should I be even trying to convince him of this? I myself am a high school dropout with no formal education, but I am a 70+k a year I.T. worker who does very well for him self both on and off the day job. Does any one here, as TMF followers, have any thoughts on this with teens?

 

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[healthstatus]

See if you can get him to the end, then work backwards. What does he want to be? What are the minimum education requirements of that?

It may be a moody phase as well.

 

[DennisD]

Can you tell us a little bit more about EXACTLY what his outlook is? Do you know?

I'm only 25 and haven't dealt with raising a child, let alone a teenager so I can't relate with you there. But I was his age around a decade ago and I still remember it clearly.

When I was in high school, I loved learning, I loved school, I participated in all my classes and my teachers loved me.

However, I failed many of my classes and didn't care about my grades. "I learned what I wanted to learn, and I know my stuff. I don't have to PROVE to anybody how much I know."

I was a punk that went against the grain and spent my time learning programming, photoshop, video, and psychology instead of homework. I graduated with a GPA of 2.8.

I'm pretty sure I made the right call. I still went to college, grabbed a great job, made killer professional connections. If I had followed the high school regimen, I wouldn't have learned what I did about multimedia production, I wouldn't have the killer portfolio that got me into college, and I probably would still be directionless in where I wanted my life to go.

I think there's a definite difference in high school apathy. I think there's the type where you don't care for good reasons "My time is better spent elsewhere" and there's the type where you don't care for bad reasons "It's not like I'm going to use this stuff ever again..."

With the bad reasons it's a matter of education. The kid doesn't understand the real world applications and advantages that being well rounded can get you, even in the hear and now. If it's the good reason for 'not caring'... I don't see an issue at all so long as he's being intellectually stimulated outside of school.

 

[LibertyForMe]

As a 23 year old, it really wasn't thhaaatt long ago since I was in his shoes. I was a little different in that I valued parts of my education, but certain subjects I hated.

I really wish, in my 'school depression' my parents had provided some alternatives for me. If, instead of just telling me to suck it up and go school even though I didn't even have to try in order to do well, they could have steered me towards business ventures that excited me.

I know the market doesn't care about things that excite you, but a 14 year old that doesn't like school needs something slightly exciting anyways, even if the profit potential isn't as high.

I would ask him some questions (like HealthStatus said) to get at what he wants. Then, show him how he can move toward that location by doing business things on the side. If he really likes Automotive stuff, steer him towards some more fastlane ventures, like creating a .pdf specifically towards teen boys who want to get into cars.

Maybe, if he starts liking the side business stuff, incentivize his school through it. For example. "If you get an A in math class, I will give you $200 in AdWords credits"...haha.

Just my thoughts.

 

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[biggeemac]

Well, I have taught him TMF ideals for the last few years, so he gets it. He wants to start a niche in video gaming and has a great idea, but I am having a hard time allowing him to be involved in that niche since his schoolwork is so half-assed. I know he would do well on his little business if I allowed him to, but i guess in my mind, to do so would be me basically sending a message that half-assing school is ok.

I guess I am wondering if i should be looking at school the same way as i look at sex for teens. I told my teen that I am not going to try and stop them from doing it, and even went as far as to give them the protection they need and encourage them to use it if they find themselves in that situation. Kids are gonna do what kids are gonna do and I cant stop that.

As far as his outlook......he is a great bullshitter and bullshits his teachers on why things werent done or the quality of effort. Then tries to bullshit us that he is doing better than he actually is and also bullshits about how he is feeling. I was at home sick today and he comes in with the thermometer reading 103 degrees. I made him retake his temp right there in front of me and could you believe that his temp went back down to 98 just that quick ?

 

[Hassassin]

LOOL you well he certainly is creative:smilielol:

Being 17 I think I do understand where he comes from.

It's common for most of us teens to think about how academic education can help us in the real world,and when you have your own business idea you feel somewhat overconfident of it's success. I felt like this, up until reading some posts of Vigilante about being more methodical and careful, which lead me to ponder the ramifications of going all out.

It's best to subtly suggest and let him discover for himself, that way he would feel like he actually learned for himself.
Hope I helped !

 

[DennisD]

I agree that school is clearly important and neglecting high school is a bad idea. School teaches more than just academia. Schooling teaches adaptation to new social situations, introduction to ideas possibly outside our comfort zone, and adherence to a set schedule. I guess the difference is in what you consider 'neglect.'

I think he'll learn more from starting a mini-biz now than anything else he can possibly pursue. Even if he fails... it's a great thing to experience at such a young age. Plus, it's such an ego boost for a young adult to be able to brag that they started their first business when they were 14.

I say: Allow him to start a business under certain guidelines.

Make sure he does well enough in school to get his diploma. All Ds? That's fine, you still get your diploma. A single F? Not ok.

With clear cut goals on what's acceptable.. there's a definite structure. School in general is kind of wishy washy that way. There's shades of grey but no hard distinctions on 'success' or 'failure'. He wouldn't need to BS you or his teachers, wouldn't need to make excuses if you redefined what's ok. I know it's unconventional but you know first hand that straight As aren't necessary for success.

He's avoiding school anyways, and I don't think ANYTHING you do will rewrite his behavior. However, when you're doing bad in school you suffer from feelings of inadequacy and it will take away from your motivation and drive elsewhere. Especially when your parents are on your case. The "Just don't get an F" rule will take these away and inject energy into the rest of his life.

By starting a business, he'll at least learn some basic English/Copywriting/Language skills, math/finance skills.. all the while still be introduced to new ideas in high school.

Other guidelines you can set up are some 'required reading' to keep his head in the right direction. TMF , Rich Dad, etc.

Let us know what you decide on and how it goes! Super interested for future use

 

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[socaldude]

What are his hobbies, interests, and motivations?

Try tying that into an academic perspective.

If hes into radio control cars then buy him a book on electronics and hopefully he sees how exciting it is and wants to study to be an engineer?

If he likes money then buy him a book on finance or stocks or options, then tie that back into high school math so that way he can see that everything he learns in school is applicable.

I remember when I was in high school and all the students used to bitch in math class "when are we ever gonna use this shit in real life!". The truth was you will always use math in real life, but these kids weren't thinking about real life or at least did not understand it, they were only concerned with friends and partying and screwing around.

If you introduce him to a specific field or skill set that is related to something you learn academically then maybe he can gain a greater interest in school. If he smokes weed then buy him a book on the science of growing pot then maybe that can stem into an interest of biology(PH levels, minerals, chemical reactions etc). I'm JK but you get the idea .

 

[CommonCents]

take him to volunteer together at a homeless shelter.

 

[Runum]

<<<<<<<< Teacher and Dad perspective:

Do not fool yourself, he is always learning. He is not learning what other people require when they require it, but he is always learning.

Right now he is learning where his limits are. He is learning what you will tolerate and what you won't stand for.

You will have to pick your battles and decide what is worth the fight and what is not. SOME of the formal education is BS, I know. SOME is needed to survive. Reading, comprehending, and basic math applications do help life get easier.

From your statements, if he is that much of a BS'er then you can't just cut him loose on a biz venture because he is not being honest with you or himself.

This is going to be a tough few years, no way around it. You need to figure ou how to develop a positive bond with him. You have to find stuff that you can talk about positively or you will alienate him.

It also helps to find an impartial ally, like a coach that he gets along with. Then, if he is screwing up, the coach can straighten him out with your permission and support. Then you aren't the bad guy.

I would suspect that this tussle you have with him goes deeper than just not pulling the grades at school. 14 year olds can pull you in to the argument. Sometimes it just has to be "because I said so." No argument. Sometimes there is room for negotiation.

Also, don't get so hung up on grades as much as real education. When I was a kid a "C" was considered average. Now, every parent demands their student get a "B" at least. Grades are almost more about behaving in class than actually learning something.

You could go the state website and decide if he really knows what he should know or is he BS'ing you like you say. If you go the TEA website you can see the state minimum Texas Essential Knowledge and Skills(TEKS) for each grade level and subject.

Texas Education Agency - Texas Essential Knowledge and Skills

Finally, I would suggest a program called Love and Logic. It is a great program to keep you out of arguments and to teach cause and affect, choices and consequences.

Helping Parents & Teachers Raise Responsible Kids - Love and Logic

I know this is not well organized. These are just some random suggestions. I have more but I am fried right now.

I wish you well.

 

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[DeletedUser2]

little tough love, and some creative freedom to let him get his a$$ kicked in a bit of the real world.

but then again, I have no teenagers.


the real world is going to educate him pretty quickly regardless of what you do.

good luck with that.

Z

 

[andviv]

I dont get the feeling this is about "education" amd more about physically being at school.

He is avoiding going there. Why?

When he is not at school is he just playing videogames? He may be addicted to that and wants to spend all his time playing.

Or maybe he is bein bullied at school. Or his 'seeetheart' made fun of him and ridicule him somehow?

Also, how far are you willing to go? What if you find him a depressing job somewhere so he tastes real life without education and without business?

It's your house. Your rules. Perform better at school or pay rent. Sell his laptop/xbox to pay his share of rent. Tough love. Welcome to real life.