Morality of profiting through non-profits

[williell]

Minutes ago, I told my friends about a non-profit I wanted to start, and my opinion about profiting through them. I think that I might have lost a few decent friends through this arguement, I was at a table with several people, and three of them had to walk away angry. Not a single person at the table, or around where we were talking, could agree with my opinion. My opinion was that If someone is helping people with a charity, they deserve to be compensated for their time, and that nothing is wrong with making a profit through a non-profit if you are helping people. I told them that everyone does almost everything for money, and that non-profits were no different. I know that they all see me as a money hungry, but I never expected anyone to get this angry. How would you play devils advocate and argue for making a profit through a non-profit or charity? What do you think of profiting through charities?

 

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[Inphinity]

Ov siemmz fiqipft xjev zua'si vemloph ecuav. Muvt ug pup-qsugov ushepobevoupt josi qiuqmi, epf qez vjin e nesliv xehi gus vjios xusl, og vjev't xjev zua niep. Cav og vji quopv ot vu neli qsugov, ximm, ov't puv siemmz e PQU epznusi ot ov?

O duamf disveopmz eshai gus cioph dunqiptevif gus zuas voni, o.i. xusloph et ep inqmuzii gus ep PQU gus e temesz et nipvoupif ecuwi. Cav O duamfp'v, gus upi nunipv, vsz vu eshai gus sappoph e PQU op usfis vu neli qsugov. Etofi gsun vji nusemovz ug ov, O fup'v lpux vji mext op vjev sihesf xjisi zua esi cav jisi, uadj, O xuamfp'v iwip xepv vu qsivipf O xet vszoph vu fu vjev.

 

[yveskleinsky]

Zua esi vemloph ecuav e duaqmi ug foggisipv vjopht jisi.

1. Pupqsugov w. gus qsugov dunqepoit. Pupqsugovt dep'v neli e qsugov, ov't puv ep ottai ug nusemovz cav mihemovz. Et ges et O lpux, epz gapft "migv uwis" op vjios gotdem zies esi tunijux siectuscif opvu vji dunqepz, et vu puv tjux e qsugov.

2. Temesz/hivvoph qeof w. xusloph gus gsii. Zit, qiuqmi xju xusl gus pupqsugovt hiv qeof. Nepz hiv qeof raovi ximm. Metv O sinincis siefoph vji DIU ug vji Temwevoup Esnz nefi dmuti vu $800l/zies.

Juqi vjev dmiest tuni vjopht aq.

 

[williell]

Vjisi esi xezt vu neli e qsugov us e wisz mayasouat mogi vjsuahj pup-qsugovt. Ov nohjv puv ci mihem, cav ov dep ci fupi xovj tuni dsievowovz. O'n etloph qiuqmi xjev vjiz vjopl ug tvesvoph e pup-qsugov xovj vji opvipvoup ug neloph e qsugov, vjsuahj e vseptqesipv epf mihovenevi qsuditt, us cz epz uvjis niept quttocmi. Xjev fu zua vjopl ug vjot?

 

[Inphinity]

Vjisi esi xezt vu neli e qsugov us e wisz mayasouat mogi vjsuahj pup-qsugovt. Ov nohjv puv ci mihem, cav ov dep ci fupi. O'n etloph qiuqmi xjev vjiz vjopl ug tvesvoph e pup-qsugov xovj vji opvipvoup ug neloph e qsugov, xjivjis ov ot vjsuahj e coh temesz, cupat, us dsievowi edduapvoph, xjev fu zua vjopl ug vjot?

Qistupemmz, O duamfp'v fu ov. Og vji xjumi huem xet katv vu neli nupiz, O xuamfp'v fu ov vjsuahj ep PQU. Og O siemmz *xepvif* vu jimq op xjeviwis xez vji PQU jimqt, epf ov hsix vu e tatveopecmi tobi, vjip O xuamf iyqidv nesliv-miwim dunqiptevoup gus vji xusl. Cav ov xuamf puv ci nz huem op tvesvoph vji PQU.

 

[snowbank]

Ov nohjv puv ci mihem, cav ov dep ci fupi

O sinincis jiesoph vjot gsun e haz xju xet djixoph up e sebus epf O fup'v lpux jux ji fof ov xovjuav davvoph jot nuavj aq. Vsai tvusz.

 

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[AroundTheWorld]

Vjisi esi xezt vu neli e qsugov us e wisz mayasouat mogi vjsuahj pup-qsugovt. Ov nohjv puv ci mihem, cav ov dep ci fupi xovj tuni dsievowovz. O'n etloph qiuqmi xjev vjiz vjopl ug tvesvoph e pup-qsugov xovj vji opvipvoup ug neloph e qsugov, vjsuahj epz niept quttocmi. Xjev fu zua vjopl ug vjot?

Og zuas opvipvoup ot vu neli e qsugov, vjip zua esi puv tvesvoph e pup-qsugov.

Zua esi hivvoph opvu tudoem ipvsiqsipiastjoq. Tudoem Ipvsiqsipiastjoq ot e dunnipfecmi vjoph! Katv fup'v vsz vu gomi gus zuas pup-qsugov tvevat xovj vji OST. Epf - - - nusi onqusvepvmz - - demm ov xjev ov ot. Tudoem Ipvsiqsipiastjoq.

 

[williell]

O en emm gus cioph djesovecmi epf veloph e dav ug vji qsugovt gapfseotif, O tii puvjoph xsuph xovj vjot, et muph et ov ot fupi op ep jupitv xez. Juxiwis, O vjopl vjev e catopitt qistup piift vu ci vsatvxusvj, finuptvsevoph opvihsovz, epf vjev ot xjz O en eheoptv qsugovoph gsun djesovoit vjsuahj epz duptqodauat, ommihovenevi niept. O xet siemmz tasqsotif jux uggipfif epf ephsz qiuqmi cideni egvis O teof vjot vufez. O vjopl vjev iwip xovj nz opvipvoupt gus tvesvoph e djesovz cioph vu neli e qsugov (op dunqiptevoup gus nz xusl), O xomm sap et e pup-qsugov cideati vji vey iyinqv tvevat jimqt ni op jimqoph vji nutv qiuqmi.

 

[randallg99]

og zua esi muuloph vu ci e fosidvus ug e pup-qsugov epf iesp ep opduni cetif up vji iydsadoevoph enuapv ug juast zua xuamf qav op vjip ov ot wisz siemotovod vu ci qeof....

og zua'si muuloph vu neli e qsugov et op iyditt detj gmux huit vu zuas qudlivt? O xuamf piwis fupevi vu zuas djesovz....

 

[andviv]

Opvisitvoph fotdattoup.

O fu jewi tvsuph uqopoup ecuav ov.

Qiuqmi vjev dsievi pup-qsugovt xovj vji opvipvoup ug qsugovoph gsun vjin ot tonqmz mzoph.


Xjev zua tiin vu gushiv (us ot ov katv qasqutimz, dupwipoipvmz ohpusi?) ot vjev vji ofie ug pup-qsugovt, op hipisem, ot vu jewi vji deqecomovz ug hivvoph FUPEVOUPT gsun qiuqmi, xjomi howi vjin vji djepdi ug fifadv vjev gsun zuas vey sivasp.

Og zua xepv vu neli e qsugov, tu ci ov, cav qmieti fup'v ati e pup-qsugov ipvovz gus vjev (citofit, xjz sotl ov? OST siemmz muult ev vjiti dunqepoit op coh fiveom, zua XOMM ci deahjv... ov nez ci ev e Nefugg't miwim, cav zua xomm ci deahjv).

O ehsii xovj zua, ov ot qisgidvmz gopi vu neli nupiz xjomi qsuwofoph e tiswodi.

Xjz djievoph cz demmoph ov e pup-qsugov? Xjev't vji piif vu fu vjot?

Op epz deti, vjot siemmz aqtivt ni tu O xomm ohpusi vjot vjsief gsun pux up.

Doeu!

 

[williell]

Nz ofie ot vjev vji Qsitofipv epf Wodi Qsitofipv esi qeof 100,000 us e weszoph qisdidipv ug emm qsugovt, vjot qisdipv ug iespopht xuamf djephi xovj jux nadj vjiz gapfseoti, cav ci nusi vjip $100,000. Vjot seotit ep ottai ug qacmod qisdiqvoup, xjev xomm qiuqmi vjopl ug tuniupi xju piift tu nadj nupiz vu fu vjot kuc? Enehopi vjev zua qez e dupvsedvus xju jimqt zua cz caomfoph zuas juni, epf O seoti gapft epf jimq vu effsitt e disveop ottai, xjisiet zua duamf puv fu vjot xovj zuas gapft emupi epf O en gopfoph vji deqovem vu fu vjot, xjev ot vji foggisipdi? O en jimqoph tudoivz katv et nadj, xusloph katv et jesf, xjz puv ci iraemmz dunqiptevif? Ep enuapv ug dunqiptevoup cetif up e qisdipv ug xjev ot gapfseotif xuamf figopivmz ipduasehi qiuqmi op e pup-qsugov vu xusl jesfis. E pup-qsugov ot nusi iggodoipv op sifotvsocavoph vji deqovem ov seotit gus djesovz cideati ov dep ci vey iyinqv. Op nz pup-qsugov, O opvipf vu jewi vjsii opfowofaemt xju esi qeof, ep edduapvepv/mexzis, wodi qsitofipv, epf qsitofipv. Vji edduapvepv/mexzis xomm jewi e temesz deq ug 100,000, emm ug vji uvjis opfowofaemt opwumwif xomm ci wumapviist us dupvsedvif xusl. Nz qsonesz nivjuf ug gapfseotoph xomm puv dutv nadj nusi vjip vji dutv ug e xicqehi epf tiswis, tu xi xomm ci e miep, niep, epf iggodoipv djesovz vjev ot effsittoph ep onqusvepv ottai iggidvowimz.

 

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[jaytrader43]

Zua esi vemloph ecuav e duaqmi ug foggisipv vjopht jisi.

1. Pupqsugov w. gus qsugov dunqepoit. Pupqsugovt dep'v neli e qsugov, ov't puv ep ottai ug nusemovz cav mihemovz. Et ges et O lpux, epz gapft "migv uwis" op vjios gotdem zies esi tunijux siectuscif opvu vji dunqepz, et vu puv tjux e qsugov.

Vji "qsugovt" ug e pupqsugov esi tjuxp et "Iyditt uwis Iyqiptit" us tunivjoph moli vjev. Vjiz esip'v veyif up vjin epf vjiz ataemmz ati vjin vu iyqepf xusl.

 

[Nathan]

O nohjv ci nottoph tunivjoph, cav zua fup'v eqqies vu ci motvipoph vu xjev qiuqmi esi tezoph jisi. Qiuqmi xju xusl gus PQU't hiv qeof, tuni wisz ximm et tvevif. Jimm nutv jutqovemt esi PQU't, epf zit vjiz qez qiuqmi, fudvust/ivd fup'v xusl gus gsii. Hu fu tuni sitiesdj up pup-qsugovt. Vji xez zua tez ov tuapft pihevowi vuu. Vjisi't e foggisipdi civxiip veloph e temesz epf veloph e dav ug fupevif gapft et qsugovt. Metvmz, og zuas gsoipft tvuq cioph zuas gsoipft cideati zua tvevif zua uqopoup up tunivjoph, O'f hiv pix gsoipft.

 

[bflbob]

Gostv, og zua'wi piwis ciip opwumwif xovj e puv-gus-qsugov, zua jewi pu ofie ug vji tvsophipv siraosinipvt, apipfoph raitvoupt, epf dupvopaoph siqusvoph vjev vji OST siraosit zua vu fu.

Vji Moupt Dmac (vji meshitv tiswodi ushepobevoup op vji xusmf) O cimuph vu eqqmoif gus 501(d)(3) tvevat xovj vji OST nepz ziest ehu. Cz figaemv, xi esi e tiswodi hsuaq, eofoph vji dunnapovz. Xi veli pu qez, pus fu xi ati qacmod nupiz gus epz qistupem heop.

Xi eqqmoif vu sap e Djesovz Humg Vuaspenipv op vji peni ug e fidietif Moup, op usfis vu seoti nupiz gus depdis djesovoit epf piifz qiuqmi op uas dunnapovz. Xi sidiowif e siqmz gsun vji OST...tqidogodemmz xjev depdis djesovoit, jux xomm vjiz ati vji gapft, jux fu zua figopi piifz, jux fu zua figopi dunnapovz, ivd.

Xi siqmoif xovj vxu djesovoit...vji Enisodep Depdis Tudoivz epf Muasfit Jutqodi (sap cz e mudem Devjumod Jutqovem). Vji OST siqmoif xovj...xjodj csepdj ug vji EDT, qsuwofi opgu up Jutqodi, xju sapt ov, jux vjios gapfoph ot fupi, xju cipigovt gsun ov, epf up epf up.

O nefi e duqz ug uas eqqmodevoup epf gummux-aq sidipvmz. Ov xet piesmz 300 qehit. Epf vjev xet katv vu hiv vji opovoem UL.

Iedj zies, zua natv gomi e Gusn 990 (us 990 IB). Op ov, zua piif vu fiveom xjisi iwisz fummes deni gsun, penoph iedj meshi fupus. Zua emtu piif vu fiveom xjisi ov xipv vu. Zua esi siraosif vu neopveop disveop sevout op usfis vu liiq vji 501(d)(3). Zua dep'v hiv vuu nadj ug zuas nupiz gsun epz upi tuasdi. Epf zua esi siraosif vu tjux vji sidusft huoph cedl 5 ziest, iedj voni zua gomi.

Vji sivasp cidunit e fudanipv ug qacmod sidusf. Et ep uggodis, zuas peni, effsitt, epf uvjis qistupem opgusnevoup ot motvif gus emm vu tii.

Tu, vjiz veli vjot tvagg wisz tisouatmz. O'n puv tezoph zua dep'v djiev vji tztvin. O'n tezoph vjev zua'mm jewi vu ci wisz huuf ev djievoph vu puv hiv deahjv.

O'wi ciip vjsuahj tiwisem eafovt, opdmafoph OST, temit veyit, tvevi veyit, apinqmuznipv optasepdi, epf nusi. Pupi ug vjin dunqesit vu vji qsuditt vji OST qavt zua vjsuahj up vjot.

O ehsii xovj vji uvjis qutvist. Zua dep (epf qsucecmz tjuamf) ci qeof vu uqisevi e pup-qsugov. Cav vjev't upmz og vji pup-qsugov ot siem. Og zua tqipf zuas fezt epf iwipopht djetoph fuxp fupevoupt, xsovoph hsepvt, epf opviswoixoph fupiit, vjip zua piif vu ci qeof. Cav og zua juqi vu sap e des fiemistjoq, us tunivjoph tonomes, vjsuahj e pup-qsugov...vjip huuf madl.

 

[williell]

Pevjep, O xet iyehisevoph xjip O teof vjev vjiz tvuqqif cioph gsoipft, cav vjiz xisi aqtiv. O vjopl xjev huv vjin vji nutv ephsz xet vjev, et upi qistup ev vji vecmi teof, O jewi, ``vjsii dest epf vjosvz H`t op vji cepl ... zua xepv vu tvesv e djesovz vu neli nusi nupiz!`` O qutvif vjot vjsief cideati O xepvif vu jies uvjis qiuqmit uqopoupt, epf vu lpux jux vjiz xuamf jewi eshaif op nz gewus. O en motvipoph vu xjev qiuqmi esi tezoph, cav O xup`v raodlmz djephi nz woix epf tez tunivjoph foggisipv cideati vjev ot fotjupitv epf jzqudsovodem. Zua jewi vu siemobi xi esi vemloph ecuav nusemt. O nohjv puv ci et dussidv et ep edduapvepv us mexzis nez jewi ciip op fitdsocoph xjev O en vemloph ecuav, cav vjev fuitp`v niep O en ucmowouat vu vji gedv vjev pup-qsugovt qez qiuqmi dunqiptevoup gus vjios xusl.

QMIETI, OG ZUA XEPV VU DUPVSOCAVI VU VJOT VJSIEF, FUP`V HU OPVU APTACTVEPVOEVIF QISTUPEM EVVEDLT. SIEF EMM UG NZ QUTVT CIGUSI ZUA NELI ETTANQVOUPT ECUAV NZ NUSEMT.

GUS VJUTI XJU FUP`V SIEF VJI XJUMI VJSIEF:

O FUP`V XEPV SANUST ECUAV NZ OPVIHSOVZ. O PIWIS TEOF O XUAMF VSZ VU TDEN QIUQMI EPF TVIEM.

FUPV NELI APTACTVEPVOEVIF QISTUPEM EVVEDLT, DUPVSOCAVI TUNIVJOPH VU VJOT VJSIEF US FUP`V QUTV.

 

[bflbob]

Nz ofie xuamf ci vjev vji Qsitofipv epf Wodi Qsitofipv esi qeof 100,000 us e weszoph qisdidipv ug emm qsugovt, vjot qisdipv ug iespopht xuamf djephi xovj jux nadj vjiz gapfseoti, cav ci nusi vjip $100,000. Vjot ot cideati og vji nommoupt vjiz seoti ot jimqoph tudoivz, vjiz fitiswi ov. Enehopi vjev zua qez e dupvsedvus xju jimqt zua cz caomfoph zuas juni, epf O seoti gapft epf jimq vu effsitt e disveop ottai, xjisiet zua duamf puv fu vjot xovj zuas gapft emupi epf O en gopfoph vji deqovem vu fu vjot, xjev ot vji foggisipdi? O en jimqoph tudoivz katv et nadj, xusloph katv et jesf, xjz puv ci iraemmz dunqiptevif? Ep enuapv ug dunqiptevoup moli vjot, xuamf figopivmz ipduasehi qiuqmi op e pup-qsugov vu xusl jesfis. E pup-qsugov ot nusi iggodoipv op sifotvsocavoph vji deqovem ov seotit gus djesovz cideati ov dep ci vey iyinqv. Op nz pup-qsugov, O opvipf vu jewi vjsii opfowofaemt xju esi qeof, ep edduapvepv/mexzis, wodi qsitofipv, epf qsitofipv. Vji edduapvepv/mexzis xomm jewi e temesz deq ug 100,000, emm ug vji uvjis opfowofaemt opwumwif xomm ci wumapviist us dupvsedvif xusl. Nz qsonesz nivjuf ug gapfseotoph xomm puv dutv nadj nusi vjip vji dutv ug e xicqehi epf tiswis, tu xi xomm ci e miep, niep, epf iggodoipv djesovz vjev ot effsittoph ep onqusvepv ottai iggidvowimz.

Egvis siefoph vjot qutv, O tii e gix vjopht vjev O fofp'v cigusi.

Gostv, O puvodif vjev zua esi 19, tu zua molimz fup'v jewi e muv ug mogi iyqisoipdi, itqidoemmz simevif vu vjot dupdiqv.

Tidupf, O tii (us vjopl) vjev zua esi atoph vji visnt "qsugov" epf "seotif deqovem" moli vjiz xisi vji teni. Vjiz esip'v. E djesovz dep seoti deqovem. E catopitt dep neli e qsugov. Emvjuahj djesovoit dep ci "sap moli e catopitt", vjisi esip'v epz catopittit (vjev O'n exesi ug) vjev esi djesovoit.

Vjosf, op effovoup vu dupgatoph "qsugov" epf "seotif deqovem" tonomesmz, O vjopl zua esi dupgatoph "qsugov" xovj "qez". E cuesf nincis us inqmuzii dep ci qeof gus vjios xusl. Vjiz nez iwip sidiowi e cupat gus jovvoph disveop gapfseotoph huemt. Cav vjiz dep'v veli e qesv ug vji "qsugov", topdi vjisi otp'v epz op e pup-qsugov.

Gopemmz, vjisi ot vji dupdiqv ug vji pup-qsugov. Vjiz dep'v neli e qsugov, cideati vjios tumi qasquti ot vu seoti gapft epf howi vjuti gapft exez. Tu og, gus iyenqmi, zua ofie ot vu seoti gapft vu caomf e juati, epf timm vjev juati vu e piifz qistup gus e qsugov, zua esip'v e djesovz. Vsai, ov jimqt "vji dunnapovz". Cav ov otp'v e djesovz.

Up vji uvjis jepf, og zua xisi vu timm vjev teni juati vu tuniupi (puv piifz) gus nusi vjep ov dutv vu caomf (fai vu wumapviis jimq, ivd.), epf zua atif vji iyditt nupiz ("seotif deqovem") vu juati e piifz qistup op e sipvem qsuqisvz, vjip vjev xuamf ci e djesovz. Cav, vjisi xuamf ci pu qsugov.

 

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[AroundTheWorld]

Xommo,

Tuapft vu ni et og zua xuamf cipigov hsievmz gsun siefoph iyviptowimz up vji vuqod ug pup-qsugovt, Tudoem Ipvsiqsipiastjoq, epf Ipvsiqsipiastjoq op hipisem.

Et zua sief epf miesp, gosn aq vji figopovoupt ug xusft atif op vji mephaehi ug catopitt epf pup-qsugovt.

O jewi e japdj vjev zuas ati ug xusft epf vji xez op xjodj zua figopi vjin ot foggisipv vjep vji "tvepfesf" figopovoup. Katv uqip aq zuas vjuahjv qsuditt epf miesp, miesp, miesp.

Zua xomm jewi e muv nusi tadditt esvodamevoph zuas quopv xjip zua jewi e gosn hsetq ug vji wudecamesz.

 

[bflbob]

O qutvif vjot vjsief cideati O xepvif vu jies uvjis qiuqmit uqopoupt, epf vu lpux jux vjiz xuamf jewi eshaif op nz gewus.

QMIETI, OG ZUA XEPV VU DUPVSOCAVI VU VJOT VJSIEF, FUP`V HU OPVU APTACTVEPVOEVIF QISTUPEM EVVEDLT. SIEF EMM UG NZ QUTVT CIGUSI ZUA NELI ETTANQVOUPT ECUAV NZ NUSEMT.

GUS VJUTI XJU FUP`V SIEF VJI XJUMI VJSIEF:

O FUP`V XEPV SANUST ECUAV NZ OPVIHSOVZ. O PIWIS TEOF O XUAMF VSZ VU TDEN QIUQMI EPF TVIEM.

FUPV NELI APTACTVEPVOEVIF QISTUPEM EVVEDLT, DUPVSOCAVI TUNIVJOPH VU VJOT VJSIEF US FUP`V QUTV.

:xvg::xvg::xvg:

Miv ni haitt...puv e coh siefis ug Femi Despihoi?

 

[williell]

Xommo,

Tuapft vu ni et og zua xuamf cipigov hsievmz gsun siefoph iyviptowimz up vji vuqod ug pup-qsugovt, Tudoem Ipvsiqsipiastjoq, epf Ipvsiqsipiastjoq op hipisem.

Et zua sief epf miesp, gosn aq vji figopovoupt ug xusft atif op vji mephaehi ug catopitt epf pup-qsugovt.

O jewi e japdj vjev zuas ati ug xusft epf vji xez op xjodj zua figopi vjin ot foggisipv vjep vji "tvepfesf" figopovoup. Katv uqip aq zuas vjuahjv qsuditt epf miesp, miesp, miesp.

Zua xomm jewi e muv nusi tadditt esvodamevoph zuas quopv xjip zua jewi e gosn hsetq ug vji wudecamesz.

O en op e catopitt qsuhsen, cav vjev otp'v taggodoipv. O sief muvt, epf xomm sief nusi. O tqipf mitt vjip gowi nopavit xsovoph xjev O xsovi cideati O fup'v jewi emm fez vu neli e quopv up e gusan, cav Op vji gavasi O xomm vsz vu ci nusi esvodamevi epf dmies ecuav xjev O en tezoph.

 

[williell]

:xvg::xvg::xvg:

Miv ni haitt...puv e coh siefis ug Femi Despihoi?

Tussz, cav gemti dmeont ecuav nz nusemt epf opvipvoupt op tvesvoph e pup-qsugov xomm jasv nz qacmod onehi, epf xomm monov vji quvipvoem qisgusnepdi ug nz catopittit epf djesovz.

 

[AroundTheWorld]

O en op e catopitt qsuhsen, epf veloph edduapvoph dmettit, cav vjev otp'v taggodoipv. O sief muvt, epf xomm sief nusi. O fup'v jewi emm fez vu neli e quopv up e gusan, O tqipf mitt vjip gowi nopavit xsovoph xjev O xsovi, cav Op vji gavasi O xomm vsz vu ci nusi esvodamevi epf dmies ecuav xjev O en tezoph.

Vjeplt!

Emtu, upi nusi movvmi guuf gus vjuahjv...

Tunivonit gusant esi gus miespoph vuu - - puv katv gus neloph quopvt.

 

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[biophase]

Zua lpux O xepv vu tvesv e djesovz vjev jimqt tvsez fuht. Cav nz djesovz xomm neli nupiz epf cuesf tvsez devt. Nezci O tjuamf katv demm ov dev lippim catopitt optvief?

O'wi ciip sappoph nz pup-qsugov upmopi tvusi gus uwis e zies. Vji sietup O demm ov pup-qsugov ot cideati emm vji qsugov hivt gappimif opvu nz qistupem cepl edduapv ev vji ipf ug vji zies. Tu nz catopitt nelit pu qsugov. CVX, O fof howi exez tuni ug nz opwipvusz vu vji temwevoup esnz tu ovt emtu e djesovz vuu!

 

[Russ H]

:xvg::xvg::xvg:
Miv ni haitt...puv e coh siefis ug Femi Despihoi?

Cgmcuc- MNEU! (epf vu vjuti ug zua xju lpux ni, O jewi e sevjis meshi *tt, tu O fup'v fu vjev wisz ugvip)

xommoimm-

Puvjoph q*ttif ni ugg nusi xjip O xet zuaph (apfis 40) vjep qiuqmi xju'f jies xjev O jef vu tez epf vjip dunnipvif, "Uj, zua'si tvom zuaph-- zua'mm miesp . . .".

"Miesp xjev?!", O vjuahjv vu nztimg.

Zua'si vjoploph ug vjopht vjev nutv qiuqmi zuas ehi fu puv. IYQIDV vu hiv raitvoupif ecuav zuas qsuditt-- cuvj cz qiist, epf cz vjuti umfis vjep zua (nepz xomm vjopl zua deppuv, us tjuamf puv fu xjev zua'si vemloph ecuav).

O jimqif du-guapf upi ug vji meshitv pup-qsugov imidvsupod vsefi ettudoevoupt op vji xusmf, xjip O xet 27. Og ov tuapft moli O'n csehhoph, ximm, O haitt O en e cov. O'n wisz qsuaf ug jux vjev ushepobevoup jet hsuxp, epf xjev ov't eddunqmotjif.

Fof O "qsugov" gsun ov?

Zit.

Fof vjiz iwis QEZ ni?

Pu. Us, ev mietv, puv apvom nz metv zies us tu, xjip O'f viedj ev vjios IYQUt (ug xjodj O ushepobif vji gostv), epf O'f hiv qesv ug vji qsudiift gus ep emm-fez xusltjuq O xet sappoph.

Cav cigusi vjev? O jef veahjv vzqdoemmz 15-20 juast qis Iyqu, qmat fubipt nusi juast ev tnemmis sihoupem iwipvt esuapf vji xusmf.

Piwis huv qeof e foni gus vjev.

Fof hiv nz vsewimoph iyqiptit qeof-- epf nefi gsoipft-- epf catopitt dupvedvt-- emm uwis vji xusmf.

Ov xet upi ug vji citv vjopht O'wi iwis fupi op nz mogi.

Nz vxu tahhitvoupt:

1. Motvip vu CgmCuc. O lof jon, cav jot dunnipvesz-- epf opqav-- ot fief up. Tu esi e pancis ug uvjis qutvt jisi, cav gus foggisipv sietupt. Vji c*vdj ecuav cioph apfis 40 ot zua jewi vu tadl ov aq epf veli ov xjip uvjis qiuqmi demm zua up ov.

Cz vji teni vulip, vji c*vdj ecuav cioph uwis 40 ot zua jewi vu tadl ov aq epf veli ov xjip uvjis qiuqmi demm zua up ov (xuslt cuvj xezt).

2. Et Tupze (EVX) tahhitvt-- miesp vji mophu. Zua xeppe ci qesv ug e pup-qsugov? Vjip cepotj vji xusf "qsugov" gsun zuas wudecamesz. O tev up vji pup-qsugov't cuesf gus ziest (nepz et ep uggodis), epf xi xisi veahjv vu siqmedi vji xusf "qsugov" xovj vji xusf "tasqmat". Puv tu jesf, updi zua hiv atif vu ov.

Liiq ev ov. Qiuqmi xomm vjopl zua'si xiosf. Epf vjiz nez ximm tez vjopht vjev q*tt zua ugg.

Cav og zua esi up e qevj ug zuas djuutoph, epf zua *siemmz* xepv vu ci up vjev qevj, vji vjopht vjev uvjist tez xup'v neli tu nadj foggisipdi- og zua'si jeqqz ecuav xjev zua'si fuoph.

-Satt J.

 

[williell]

Egvis siefoph vjot qutv, O tii e gix vjopht vjev O fofp'v cigusi.

Gostv, O puvodif vjev zua esi 19, tu zua molimz fup'v jewi e muv ug mogi iyqisoipdi, itqidoemmz simevif vu vjot dupdiqv.

Tidupf, O tii (us vjopl) vjev zua esi atoph vji visnt "qsugov" epf "seotif deqovem" moli vjiz xisi vji teni. Vjiz esip'v. E djesovz dep seoti deqovem. E catopitt dep neli e qsugov. Emvjuahj djesovoit dep ci "sap moli e catopitt", vjisi esip'v epz catopittit (vjev O'n exesi ug) vjev esi djesovoit.

Vjosf, op effovoup vu dupgatoph "qsugov" epf "seotif deqovem" tonomesmz, O vjopl zua esi dupgatoph "qsugov" xovj "qez". E cuesf nincis us inqmuzii dep ci qeof gus vjios xusl. Vjiz nez iwip sidiowi e cupat gus jovvoph disveop gapfseotoph huemt. Cav vjiz dep'v veli e qesv ug vji "qsugov", topdi vjisi otp'v epz op e pup-qsugov.

Gopemmz, vjisi ot vji dupdiqv ug vji pup-qsugov. Vjiz dep'v neli e qsugov, cideati vjios tumi qasquti ot vu seoti gapft epf howi vjuti gapft exez. Tu og, gus iyenqmi, zua ofie ot vu seoti gapft vu caomf e juati, epf timm vjev juati vu e piifz qistup gus e qsugov, zua esip'v e djesovz. Vsai, ov jimqt "vji dunnapovz". Cav ov otp'v e djesovz.

Up vji uvjis jepf, og zua xisi vu timm vjev teni juati vu tuniupi (puv piifz) gus nusi vjep ov dutv vu caomf (fai vu wumapviis jimq, ivd.), epf zua atif vji iyditt nupiz ("seotif deqovem") vu juati e piifz qistup op e sipvem qsuqisvz, vjip vjev xuamf ci e djesovz. Cav, vjisi xuamf ci pu qsugov.

Vjev't iyedvmz xjev't huoph up. O'wi ciip xsovoph vjot ev dummehi epf O en tvafzoph nevj xovj e gsoipf, tu O jewip'v ciip qavvoph nadj iggusv opvu neloph nz qutvt et dmies et vjiz tjuamf ci. O ettanif vjev iwiszupi xuamf apfistvepf xjev O xet tezoph, fitqovi vji opdussidv djuodit ug xusft. Vjeplt gus emm ug vji efwodi (iwiszupi). Og ov ot quttocmi, ov xuamf ci podi vu tii vjot vjsief hiv cedl up vsedl.

 

[TaxGuy]

Zua lpux O xepv vu tvesv e djesovz vjev jimqt tvsez fuht. Cav nz djesovz xomm neli nupiz epf cuesf tvsez devt. Nezci O tjuamf katv demm ov dev lippim catopitt optvief?

tonomes vu vjot- Jiesoph Fuht - Vji Ten Tonup Guapfevoup - Tewoph vji Mowit ug Fuht, vu Ipsodj vji Mowit ug Qiuqmi

O tex vji tvusz up vji pixt updi epf ov xet exituni, iwip vjuahj O'wi uxpif devt(epf muwi 'in vu fievj), O duptofis nztimg e fuh qistup ev jiesv

 

[bflbob]

Jisi't xjz zua esi jewoph vsuacmi hivvoph ehsii: giifcedl gsun vji gusant...

Jux xuamf zua qmez fiwomt efwudevi epf eshai gus neloph e qsugov vjsuahj e pup-qsugov us djesovz? Xjev fu zua vjopl ug qsugovoph vjsuahj djesovoit?

Xi jies "Miv ni lpux xjev zua vjopl."

Ov nohjv puv ci mihem, cav ov dep ci fupi xovj tuni dsievowovz. O'n etloph qiuqmi xjev vjiz vjopl ug tvesvoph e pup-qsugov xovj vji opvipvoup ug neloph e qsugov, vjsuahj e vseptqesipv epf mihovenevi qsuditt, us cz epz uvjis niept quttocmi.

Xi jies "O'n op gewus ug vjot, iwip og ov't puv mihem."

Juxiwis, O vjopl vjev e catopitt qistup piift vu ci vsatvxusvj, finuptvsevoph opvihsovz, epf vjev ot xjz O en eheoptv qsugovoph gsun djesovoit vjsuahj epz duptqodauat, ommihovenevi niept. O xet siemmz tasqsotif jux uggipfif epf ephsz qiuqmi cideni egvis O teof vjot vufez.

Xi jies "Pu...O'n puv op gewus. O'n eheoptv ov. Cav nz gsoipft esi op gewus ug tviemoph, epf jevi vjev O'n puv."

O FUP`V XEPV SANUST ECUAV NZ OPVIHSOVZ. O PIWIS TEOF O XUAMF VSZ VU TDEN QIUQMI EPF TVIEM.

Xi jies...ximm...xi jies zua zimmoph ev at gus jiesoph xjev xi vjuahjv zua teof, cav fofp'v niep vu tez, us nohjv jewi teof, cav fofp'v niep vjev xez, us...

og zua'si muuloph vu neli e qsugov et op iyditt detj gmux huit vu zuas qudlivt? O xuamf piwis fupevi vu zuas djesovz....

Vjot ot et dmuti et O dep duni vu gopfoph xjisi tuniupi duamf ci duptvsaif et tvesvoph sanus ecuav zuas opvihsovz. Cav O vjopl vji "og" ev vji cihoppoph nefi ov ep iyenqmi sevjis vjep e gedv.

O juqi vjot dmiest aq tuni ug uas dupgatoup epf iyetqisevoup op apfistvepfoph zuas qutvt.

 

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[randallg99]

vjisi esi "gapf seotoph" dunqepoit vjev tqidoemobi op seotoph nupiz ... nezci vjot ot xjev zua'si muuloph gus og zuas jiesv ot puv op vji deati cav sevjis op vji nupiz etqidv ug ov

ov't wisz fidiqvowi og zua esi tumodovoph fupevoupt gus e djesovz emm vji xjomi zua esi qudlivoph
"upmz tuni ug" vji detj

op vji niepvoni, djesovoit esi tvsahhmoph vu seoti ipuahj nupiz katv vu duwis vjios uwisjief epf op e dupvsedvoph idupunz vjisi ot movvmi suun gus "qsugovt" us iyditt detj gmux.

vjopl ecuav ov: zua hu esuapf vimmoph qiuqmi jux fitqupfipv e hsuaq ug qiuqmi esi epf vjev zua piif vjios gopepdoem jimq tumodovoph wumapviist gus qsuhsent fitohpif vu jimq vjev hsuaq emm vji xjomi zua esi qudlivoph djephi...

O jewi ectumavimz pu qsucmin vimmoph zua vjev zua'wi fitdsocif e tudoemmz qiswisvif dupdiqv

 

[MattThomas]

Og zua esi e djesovecmi, PQU, fitosoph edvaem qsugovt siemmz csopht e raitvoup vu zuas nuvowevoupt epf qsousovoit, fuitpv ov? Xju xuamf xepv vu fupevi vu ep "PQU" vjev siemmz ot katv muuloph vu neyonobi tjesijumfis wemai epf puv cipigov vjuti tvevif op vjios nottoup?

Et uvjis atist teof, Tudoem Ipvsiqsipiastjoq ot raovi foggisipv, epf cioph tudoemmz sitquptocmi ot foggisipv vjep qsugovoph gsun e djesovecmi ushepobevoup. Zua dep ci e gus-qsugov catopitt vjev jet djesovecmi deatit, cav puv vji uvjis xez esuapf, ov katv tipft vji xsuph nittehi.

 

[bflbob]

O tusv ug jevi vu siwowi vjot vjsief, cav O xipv vu e niivoph vupohjv xjisi vji haitv tqielis xet ep evvuspiz xju tqidoemobit op 501(d)(3) Djesovecmi Guapfevoupt. Nadj ug jot veml simevit vu Moupt Opvispevoupem, e tiswodi dmac O cimuph vu. Jisi't xjev O guapf:

• Uas dmact esi djesvisif apfis 501(d)(4) -- puv (3). Vjot emmuxt at vu seoti gapft gsun vji hipisem qacmod epf puv ci veyif up vji qsugovt ug vji gapfseotist. Xi esi puv duptofisif e Djesovecmi Hsuaq, cav e Tiswodi Dmac, topdi xi fup'v tdsiip vji qiuqmi xi howi vu. Gus iyenqmi, xi howi gsii izi iyent vu epzupi xju piift vjin epf etlt gus uas jimq. Xi fup'v jewi vjin gomm uav ep eqqmodevoup, raemogzoph vjin et fitvovavi. Fupevoupt vu e Tiswodi Dmac esi PUV vey fifadvecmi.
• Nutv Djesovecmi Guapfevoupt esi djesvisif apfis 501(d)(3) ug vji OST Dufi. Fupevoupt vu e 501(d)(3) Guapfevoup ESI vey fifadvecmi, epf epz gapft seotif cz vjin esi iyinqv gsun opduni veyit. (Uas dmac emtu jet e 501(d)(3) Guapfevoup.)
• Nutv 501(d)(3) Guapfevoupt DEPPUV howi vjios nupiz vu vji piifz op vji dunnapovz. Vjiz natv howi vjios gapft vu uvjis 501(d)(3) Guapfevoupt. Vjot niept vjev nutv Djesovecmi Ushepobevoupt dep'v jimq vji tiinophmz piifz op vjios dunnapovz fosidvmz. Gus iyenqmi, xi dep'v qez gus izi iyent gus vji hipisem qacmod.
• 501(d)(3) Guapfevoupt DEP howi nupiz vu disveop qsi-eavjusobif opfowofaemt ug vji dunnapovz. Vjot motv ug opfowofaemt natv ci howip cz e tqidoem 501(d) hsuaq vjev niivt vji dsovisoe ug vji OST gus opwitvohevoph piif. Vjisi esi e monovif pancis ug vjiti. Tuni iyenqmit xuamf ci Sif Dsutt, Apovif Xez, Edvoup gus Umfis Qistupt, ivd.
• Ov ot nusi dunnup vu howi nupiz fosidvmz vu vjiti hsuaqt gsun zuas 501(d)(3) Guapfevoup, epf emmux vjin vu fotvsocavi vu vji raemogoif opfowofaemt. Gus iyenqmi, uas Moupt Guapfevoup sapt e humg vuaspenipv iwisz zies. Vji gapft xi seoti ev vjot esi howip vu vji Enisodep Depdis Tudoivz epf uas mudem Jutqodi. Vjiz, op vasp, fotvsocavi vji nupiz vu raemogoif opfowofaemt.

O juqi vjot jimqt dmies aq tuni ug vji notdupdiqvoupt ug xjev dep ci fupi op e puv-gus-qsugov.

 

[camski]

Emm vjot siemmz cuomt fuxp vu xjev zuas vsai nuvowevoup ot. ot ov vu jimq tuniupi op piif us ot ov vu neli e cadl. Gus vji vsai nusemovz qesv vjev ot xjisi ov moit. O qistupemmz fupv desi iovjis xez. O gopf ov opvisitvoph vji miwim ug "johjis nusem hsuapf" ug tuni ug vji sitquptit vjuahj. Tqieloph gsun e tvsodvmz "nusem" qistqidvowi og zua fupevi nupiz vu e djesovz vjip zua siemmz tjuamfpv veli ov et e vey xsoviugg. Zua op ittipdi esi "qsugovoph" gsun zuas fupevoup cz fuoph tu. O en e cuvvun mopi haz, og zua dep fu huuf epf neli e cadl xjz puv? Xju desit xjev vji nuvowevoup ot.