Imminent Threat Survival

[MJ DeMarco]

I'm not entirely sure I should be pontificating on what people getting shot at "should" do, given I've never been shot at.

True. All we can do is prepare.

I went shooting in the desert this weekend and one of the exercises was to sprint prior to shooting. (No, we weren't running with guns.)

The sharpshooters of the group were WAY OFF once the adrenaline and heart-rate started pumping.

For me, I needed practice handling and shooting. I know if I'm in a situation the last thing I want to do is pick up a gun and be wishy-washy.

 

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[G-Man]

True. All we can do is prepare.

I went shooting in the desert this weekend and one of the exercises was to sprint prior to shooting. (No, we weren't running with guns.)

The sharpshooters of the group were WAY OFF once the adrenaline and heart-rate started pumping.

For me, I needed practice handling and shooting. I know if I'm in a situation the last thing I want to do is pick up a gun and be wishy-washy.

All valid. Just trying not to be a keyboard ninja or insensitive to folks that might have lost someone in one of these events by implying they were somehow at fault for their demise.

Was it a rifle course? I've been interested in taking one of the Front Sight type courses in the NV desert. Seems like the rifle course would be more exciting, but pistol training might be more practical, given it's unlikely I'm gonna break out a long gun in the yuppie jungle of N DFW.

 

[Scot]

True. All we can do is prepare.

I went shooting in the desert this weekend and one of the exercises was to sprint prior to shooting. (No, we weren't running with guns.)

The sharpshooters of the group were WAY OFF once the adrenaline and heart-rate started pumping.

For me, I needed practice handling and shooting. I know if I'm in a situation the last thing I want to do is pick up a gun and be wishy-washy.

Reminds me of the meme going around "what most gun owners need is a $500 gun and $1,500 in training, not a $2,000 gun"

But good on you for doing some stress shooting. That's one thing that always frustrates me in active shooter and concealed carry conversations. When adrenaline and fatigue are factors, all that stationary paper shooting goes out the window.

But @G-Man, rules of an active shooter scenario are always run, hide, fight - in that order of priority.

Get the hell out of the situation, always. No ones ever going to pull a Rambo and take down a shooter that is tactically proficient with expedient weapons (or even a concealed)



Edit: typo. Run not fun. Should never have fun during an active shooter situation :-/

 

[G-Man]

But @G-Man, rules of an active shooter scenario are always fun, hide, fight - in that order of priority.

@Scot Agreed, which is why the one time I was remotely close to a shooting, I got behind my car, waited for the shots to stop (turned out they weren't done, he must have been reloading), and drove away. I drove that Mercury Grand Marquis like Vin Diesel, dude.

Weirdest thing is, while I was behind my car, there were people walking TOWARD the shooting, craning their necks to try to see what was happening. A couple of people, of course, had their phones out, presumably filming, which I think @MJ DeMarco referenced above.

After getting over the initial rush. I had a nice quiet moment of Belgian beer and contemplating how our species has survived this long.

 

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[Scot]

@Scot Agreed, which is why the one time I was remotely close to a shooting, I got behind my car, waited for the shots to stop (turned out they weren't done, he must have been reloading), and drove away. I drove that Mercury Grand Marquis like Vin Diesel, dude.

Weirdest thing is, while I was behind my car, there were people walking TOWARD the shooting, craning their necks to try to see what was happening. A couple of people, of course, had their phones out, presumably filming, which I think @MJ DeMarco referenced above.

After getting over the initial rush. I had a nice quiet moment of Belgian beer and contemplating how our species has survived this long.

Wow. That, that just hurts my brain.

 

[Schwartz]

The biggest killers in life or death situations are one of 2 things or both. The first is lacking situational awareness for instance if I'm in a restaurant or anywhere with large public groups I try to sit with my back against a wall with a clear view of an exit.

The second killer is emotional response which can lead to irrational actions or inaction both of which can be the difference between life and death when seconds matter.

As MJ said the best one can do is prepare themselves for the worst case scenario. Not only should you physically prepare but you should mentally prepare so that it becomes second nature when SHTF. An example of that would be special forces or any group of individuals involved in high risk scenarios. Most of their training is to weed out the mentally weak not the physically weak.

 

[Roli]

France has some of the strictest gun-control laws in the world.

But their police still carry guns; our laws (UK) are much stricter (essentially you're allowed a shotgun if you're a farmer, or a semi-automatic if you're a special kind of policeman), much easier to control if you don't allow anyone to carry a gun; regardless of whether they wear a uniform or not.

Uh oh! Step away from the gun control debate!!

 

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[Roli]

The biggest killers in life or death situations are one of 2 things or both. The first is lacking situational awareness for instance if I'm in a restaurant or anywhere with large public groups I try to sit with my back against a wall with a clear view of an exit.

Shit; what are you; a Mafia boss or something?

 

[ChickenHawk]

...much easier to control if you don't allow anyone to carry a gun; regardless of whether they wear a uniform or not.

In France, the victims weren't merely killed. They were tortured and toyed with. Many were castrated and had their eyes gouged out, apparently while still alive. The victims, all unarmed, had virtually no chance of fighting back. The terrorists had guns. The victims did not. Castration is illegal. Eye-gouging is illegal. Killing is illegal. Unfortunately, the terrorists, like most criminals, disregarded all of these laws. Meanwhile, law-abiding people were left defenseless because they followed the rules set by their own government. These days, I very rarely leave my home unarmed, and I'm very thankful to live in a country where the right to self-defense isn't infringed on (much).

 

[Jon L]

But their police still carry guns; our laws (UK) are much stricter (essentially you're allowed a shotgun if you're a farmer, or a semi-automatic if you're a special kind of policeman), much easier to control if you don't allow anyone to carry a gun; regardless of whether they wear a uniform or not.

Uh oh! Step away from the gun control debate!!

"Stop or I'll...say stop again!" ;-)

 

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[ZF Lee]

This thing today reminds me of the UVA incident. You would think that a college campus, being full of 19/20 yr old men would be the most dangerous place on earth to try and pull something like this - as opposed to Newtown or an old folks home. What the thread seems to be ignoring in talking about what the group in the restroom should do is this situation becomes a prisoner's dilemma. Nobody wants to risk getting it, so everybody gets it.

First step is learning to think of yourself as the only guy in the corner. Nothing's gonna happen if you don't do it. It's essentially like both the fastlane and rest of life.

EDIT: I'm not entirely sure I should be pontificating on what people getting shot at "should" do, given I've never been shot at. I was present during a shooting once, and I couldn't GTFO fast enough. I got in my car and drove it out of a car wash still soapy.

Man, that's deep!
Thank goodness you had the guts to GTFO anyway. I might have been scared stiff! My country outlaws guns, thus shootings are a rarity, but there's lots of snatch theft in the urban areas

 

[Scot]

Here's the crazy thing.. Yesterday's attack was with a car and a butchers knife. Terrorists don't need guns to kill. Trust me, they're creative. Do you know how easy it is to create an IED? Don't need a gun to do that.

But agree with @ChickenHawk, I carry daily and it's because I love my family and I plan on seeing them at the end of the day.

 

[ZF Lee]

At this height of criminal, let alone terrorist outbreak, I wonder if a fastlane need exists here, untouched by corporate bureaucracy.

 

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[Scot]

At this height of criminal, let alone terrorist outbreak, I wonder if a fastlane need exists here, untouched by corporate bureaucracy.

Trust me, in the USA, it's covered. The veteran community pops out a new defense company every week. Body armor, home defense, personal defense, concealed carry accessories, weapon modifications, classes, training, you name it.

In your country, it may be a fully untapped market. Even though guns are banned, things like Krav Maga are excellent self defense classes, teach the ALICE method for surviving active shooter scenarios, provide home security, etc

 

[ZF Lee]

Trust me, in the USA, it's covered. The veteran community pops out a new defense company every week. Body armor, home defense, personal defense, concealed carry accessories, weapon modifications, classes, training, you name it.

In your country, it may be a fully untapped market. Even though guns are banned, things like Krav Maga are excellent self defense classes, teach the ALICE method for surviving active shooter scenarios, provide home security, etc

Security companies are making quite the buck already! Housing estates all over my country are gated and guarded. Looks like Stalag prison at times!
Alarms are quite the staple even for the lower-income people/

however, whole communities are trying not to throw money. Instead, there are voluntary security organizations offering their time to clear up crime. But then again the results are half-baked.

I am not gaming towards the security niche, but I'll look into this. Thanks!

 

[ZF Lee]

Hah, it's like the first movie in the Purge series, huh?

 

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[MJ DeMarco]

much easier to control if you don't allow anyone to carry a gun

Yea, Hitler, Stalin, Mao, and Castro agree with you.

 

[G-Man]

So, this has degenerated into a bit of a political debate, but @ZF Lee is right, there's gotta be market potential here, even more so with more publicized debacles like Ohio State.

All of the uber-tactical stuff is dominated by veteran owned companies since they have the expertise, but what about more pedestrian ventures?

After going through this thread yesterday, I realized that I live in a densely populated area in a red state and still have to drive over 20 minutes to get to the nearest pistol range. Opportunity? Gonna see if I can find out why. So far, the answers have been along the lines of conspiracy theories about the owners of the ranges in Frisco and Plano making it hard for people to get permits. I don't believe conspiracy theories. It's probably just that you can't afford the insurance premiums or something more mundane.

Some other fastlaners had to have noticed local business opportunities in their areas.

 

[Scot]

So, this has degenerated into a bit of a political debate, but @ZF Lee is right, there's gotta be market potential here, even more so with more publicized debacles like Ohio State.

All of the uber-tactical stuff is dominated by veteran owned companies since they have the expertise, but what about more pedestrian ventures?

After going through this thread yesterday, I realized that I live in a densely populated area in a red state and still have to drive over 20 minutes to get to the nearest pistol range. Opportunity? Gonna see if I can find out why. So far, the answers have been along the lines of conspiracy theories about the owners of the ranges in Frisco and Plano making it hard for people to get permits. I don't believe conspiracy theories. It's probably just that you can't afford the insurance premiums or something more mundane.

Some other fastlaners had to have noticed local business opportunities in their areas.

When I moved to my current city I found the Mecca of shooting ranges. Previously, ranges had been the typical dark, smokie, crappy places with holes in the ceiling, bad ventilation.

This place has a cafe, an app to reserve lanes (because there's always a wait time!), a gun smith always on duty (with quick turn around. Got front site mounted in 30 min!), full pro shop, and subscription deals.

In your area @G-Man you can absolutely be the disruptor. Be the new company that comes in and improves the incumbents that don't see a need to improvise. I'll PM you the website for my local range so you can see what I'm talking about.

 

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[GMSI7D]

Please keep responses to strategy and strategic information.

the lesson i learned surfing on the web is this :

people have to understand things by themselves. we can't do that for them


we see things our own way and there are things that we don't understand and others do and vice versa.

Dale Carnegie said in "how to win friends and influence people" that people may be wrong but they really don't believe that they are wrong.


so i won't give advice to anyone about the future or any strategy because :

1) maybe i am right and nobody will believe me or they will think that the idea was theirs in the first place anyway (this is human nature )

2) maybe i am wrong without knowing it and therefore people shouldn't listen to me for their best interest.

in either case, i have nothing to gain and people neither

 

[Scot]

the lesson i learned surfing on the web is this :

people have to understand things by themselves. we can't do that for them


we see things our own way and there are things that we don't understand and others do and vice versa.

Dale Carnegie said in "how to win friends and influence people" that people may be wrong but they really don't believe that they are wrong.


so i won't give advice to anyone about the future or any strategy because :

1) maybe i am right and nobody will believe me or they will think that the idea was theirs in the first place anyway (this is human nature )

2) maybe i am wrong without knowing it and therefore people shouldn't listen to me for their best interest.

in either case, i have nothing to gain and people neither

Not quite sure how any of this is relevant to the discussion of self defense but ok.

 

[ZF Lee]

I remember progress thread somewhere here about some Fastlaner procurring deals for non-lethal weapons. He or she might have a breakthrough coming in at this event....
Non-lethals should solve defense and lower the cost of violence.

 

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[ZF Lee]

After going through this thread yesterday, I realized that I live in a densely populated area in a red state and still have to drive over 20 minutes to get to the nearest pistol range. Opportunity? Gonna see if I can find out why. So far, the answers have been along the lines of conspiracy theories about the owners of the ranges in Frisco and Plano making it hard for people to get permits. I don't believe conspiracy theories. It's probably just that you can't afford the insurance premiums or something more mundane.

The truth is that conspiracy theories are mostly made up by Sidewalkers and even Slowlaners to blame someone (i.e the government or aliens) for matters that they refuse to take control of

 

[redsfaithful]

even more so with more publicized debacles like Ohio State.

What on earth was a debacle about it? The guy was shot and killed something like under two minutes after the attack began. A fire alarm had been pulled a few minutes before the attack and there were police already there.

I'm not interested in getting into the gun control debate at all but none of the victims died and the police officer was able to put down the threat without having to worry about being shot at. Thank god all the guy had was a knife. And thank god the fire alarm at Watts Hall was going off, I'm not clear if that was related somehow, but it was seriously lucky.

If there's a takeaway here relevant to the thread it's to be a little wary following an accident involving a car and group of pedestrians. People thought it was an accident and were checking on others, etc. until he got out of the car and started waving the knife around.

 

[Roli]

Yea, Hitler, Stalin, Mao, and Castro agree with you.

So do some other more mellow leaders, but as I said; I'm backing away from the gun control debate. I quite literally have no say in the matter

 

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[ChickenHawk]

So do some other more mellow leaders...

These "mellow" leaders, along with their families, enjoy 24-hour protection from armed guards. Until they give up their own protection, their stance is laughable and the height of hypocrisy.

 

[MJ DeMarco]

These "mellow" leaders, along with their families, enjoy 24-hour protection

Not to mention an incredible healthcare plan without the $12,000 deductible and shitty doctors.

 

[Guest3722A]

In wake of the attack, Ohio legislators are considering a bill to allow people with concealed-carry licenses to bring guns on campuses. Vote coming as soon as Wed. Google it. Have a nice day.

 

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[Michael Moore]

Yea, Hitler, Stalin, Mao, and Castro agree with you.

And the Indian population in Dakota I guess???
Feel free to remove if inappropriate

 

[Schwartz]

And the Indian population in Dakota I guess???
Feel free to remove if inappropriate

I doubt anyone here believes their own government isn't capable of or participating in atrocities. History always repeats itself for those who ignore it. Or I guess I should say nobody here SHOULD believe it's not possible.