Ryan Deiss - Funnel blueprint

[s168]

Call me cynical but I believe that a good product with a great value proposition trumps tactics every time. Sustainable business models are businesses that develop demand.

Yes, absolutely, and great marketing helps sell more of it before word of mouth traction takes over. Hopefully at that point you've got a customer for life, aka a fan!

If this is a viable, ethical platform… have legitimate brands embraced this strategy?

Supermarkets doing different deals like 3 for 2 is an example, making you buy more than you need, and offering coupons and discounts. They also then promote their other services that they never provided before, such as loans and credit cards, insurance, etc.

Costco sends out coupon catalogues keeping you informed about their latest offers, even when you had no intention of buying anything you probably would glance at the deals just in case.

Groupon is another example... always sending people offers to maximise LTV. Can you imagine them only offering only one deal or the same type of deals?

Cashback websites always promoting latest deals with email marketing.

Nationwide chains of (real) estate agents offering mortgage services and solictor/conveyancing recommendations for commissions.

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[RogueInnovation]

Sustainable business models are businesses that develop demand

To me, aggregation is a "who is stupid enough to click and keep clicking" game, and that game is easily crushed when a customer is informed or aware.

Yes, people will click and buy in circles, but is that LONG TERM poison to your company?

A friend said to me, before he landed a deal with disney and sony, that sales has to be done RIGHT at the top tier because most are like poison because they treat customers like cr#p.

He was wondering why some clients were going silent so talked to them and investigated and they all said that the sales guy was poison.
So he found the real deal, and a cool couple hundred k and a week later he landed some huge contracts and sound relationships.

Sometimes biz is more about WEEDING out total bs, than tailgating, aggregating and customer mining.

You got to build a platform of trust, give and take in as human of a way as possible.
To do that I think you have to give your customers and clients due credit and respect your equal partnership and treat them in kind.


Drop poison pick up the top 5 brands, hardly a coincidence, smells more like results

 

[Kyle Tully]

Because I truly don't know the answer, can somebody list any tier one companies that use sales funnels as a means of converting traffic into sales?

Depends on what you mean by "tier 1", but a few that come to mind...

Godaddy.
Basecamp.
Groupon.
CrazyEgg.

There are literally thousands of them.

 

[Vigilante]

Godaddy is a pretty great example actually.

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[s168]

Sometimes biz is more about WEEDING out total bs, than tailgating, aggregating and customer mining.

You got to build a platform of trust, give and take in as human of a way as possible.
To do that I think you have to give your customers and clients due credit and respect your equal partnership and treat them in kind.

We spoke about this yesterday, funny enough.

One thing that is irritating as hell in the IM niche is the fact that people rent, sell, swap their mailing lists beyond that point of abuse. Some "gurus" are notorious for doing this. Yet I know some of these relatively "big" ish IMers based on this side of the pond, and they're hardly making the money they want you to think they're making. If people knew the truth, they'd never sell another course again.

Contrast that with one guy I know, who runs 2 of the top 1000 websites in the UK. He would NEVER do that to his list. Because once the trust is abused, the customers leave for good and that affects his average customer LTV.

Guess who has made GBP £40m+ in the last 11 years and has almost GBP £1m of cars on their driveway? Nope, it's not the gurus...!

 

[limitup]

The IM niche is one big incestuous circle jerk

(and very profitable if you're into that sort of thing)

 

[RogueInnovation]

Supermarkets doing different deals like 3 for 2 is an example, making you buy more than you need, and offering coupons and discounts.

You know I've been noticing this when out shopping, all these microtactics.
Like, to roll out a different brand of multigrain bread they slashed prices, introduced the other brand at the same price a few days later then a few days after put the price back up.

Or where I buy my cornchips, they reduced it from two shelves to one shelf to force people to go with the brand they put beside it, then next week returned it to two shelves.

In the meats department, the pork mince was slowly rising by like twenty cents in irregular intervals, then it cemented, then they introduced a smaller portion size, then after another week introduced a kg size instead of the usual 700g size.

Clearly this was driven by the stats they were getting elsewhere, and what strategies they are tuned into. I just admired the fluidity and psychology behind it and how they were constantly moving and refining.

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[s168]

The IM niche is one big incestuous circle jerk

(and very profitable if you're into that sort of thing)

It could be argued that they're providing supply to *almost* satisfy a hot market. Not too different from the diet niche in some ways. If people weren't so naive, gullible and desperate, these types wouldn't be making money. Those Warrior Forum WSO's and multi-day pitch-fest seminars are classic examples. Always claiming everything was so easy and quick, when it is everything but that. But the cold hard truth doesn't sell as well.

 

[JasonR]

Oh man I wish I could tell you guys what I know about Ryan Deiss and all these other "gurus" ...
Let's just say it's 10x more profitable to sell picks and shovels (and Levi's!) than it is to pan for gold.

Please, do tell. I'm intrigued.

Funnels aren't some magic sauce. They have been around for decades, just not online.

If you have an ecommerce store where people generally by more than once, you have a funnel. Albeit a simple one.

Last I hear the Survival Knife Funnel was doing about $6m a year. Perhaps @Kung Fu Steve can verify that?

The magic sauce is the paid traffic and CPA costs.

F*ck it, I'll show you the results as I build mine...

 

[AllenCrawley]

The funnel that Ryan Deiss is known for is the Survival Life funnel. Yes he teaches different variations of funnels but the survival life funnel seems to be the 'standard' for which people are shooting for and I think what @Vigilante might be seeking examples of.

I'll admit I was on the funnel bandwagon as well but I've given it more thought, research and have actually going thru the funnel. Now I have a real issue with this type of funnel (Survival Life). This is not to say that funnels are not good. They've been around for a long time. We've called them upsells, add-on's and other cool marketing terms. I'm specifically talking about the Survival Life credit card funnel that everyone is drooling over.

If you choose to go thru the funnel all the way just to see it in action you will be sitting for an hour being directed to page after page and video after video even when clicking 'no thanks'. What you don't realize is (and Jason's mentioned this before) is that the credit card knife that you filled out the credit card form for actually billed you and now every time you click 'add to cart' your card is charged again. All the while you're expecting a final checkout page to review your cart's contents before you click 'pay now'. You also don't bail on the continuous redirects because you're thinking you need to make it to the end to finalize your order. But that page never comes because they've already charged you.

At this point it's a numbers game. They know that a certain percentage of people will get pissed off about that and call to cancel their order. And they're fine with that. Likely because they know a larger percentage of pissed of people will never call and cancel. I happen to believe that this type of practice is despicable. Do a google search for survival life complaints|scams etc and read what is happening.

Last I hear the Survival Knife Funnel was doing about $6m a year. Perhaps @Kung Fu Steve can verify that?

That may be true but the ends do not justify the means.

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[MJ DeMarco]

Last I hear the Survival Knife Funnel was doing about $6m a year.

Sorry, but money doesn't justify the means. If the means are nefarious, I really wouldn't care if he did $100M a year.

If you choose to go thru the funnel all the way just to see it in action you will be sitting for an hour being directed to page after page and video after video even when clicking 'no thanks'. What you don't realize is (and Jason's mentioned this before) is that the credit card knife that you filled out the credit card form for actually billed you and now every time you click 'add to cart' your card is charged again. All the while you're expecting a final checkout page to review your cart's contents before you click 'pay now'. You also don't bail on the continuous redirects because you're thinking you need to make it to the end to finalize your order. But that page never comes because they've already charged you.

Sounds like legendary customer service here, eh?

I happen to believe that this type of practice is despicable.

+1.

 

[limitup]

Man if you guys only knew what's going on behind the scenes with the IM gooroos. I'm just not sure I can post details in a public forum. Lemme ask my attorney when I talk to him in a few days ...

 

[rkmalo1]

I'm specifically talking about the Survival Life credit card funnel that everyone is drooling over.

I just looked this up, here is the sales page. To me, that page is just plain "scammy". I would never not want to be associated with any business that practices business like that. I do, however, believe that funnels are being used legitimately and effectively obviously and if there is a thing or two I can learn (that is legitimate) from Ryan Deiss, I will learn it, implement and move on.

I happen to believe that this type of practice is despicable.

+2

Man if you guys only knew what's going on behind the scenes with the IM gooroos. I'm just not sure I can post details in a public forum

I would love to know.

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[JasonR]

I complained and the refunded all of my money - not saying that their funnel isn't slightly shady (it is intentionally confusing), and I would have happily paid for the CC Knife - but they refunded me that too.

Yes, the "Add to Cart" wording is confusing.

In the end, good marketing and a sub-par product is definitely in the gray/black side of things.

And agreed, the ends doesn't justify the means.

For the record, I'm not saying to be shady. I feel like most people miss the concept of repeat customers and recurring revenue.

Don't lie, don't cheat, don't steal.

 

[LightHouse]

Let's not rope funnels and marketing into, "this must be shady"

You folks here are leaders, you have ability to learn things and take them at face value. Just because Ryan deiss runs a funnel that you don't like doesn't mean that "funnels" are for scammy business's. The point here is using knowledge and spooky it to your business.

A side note, watch the limelight crm demo video. I thought scammy acai rebills were banned by the ftc?

 

[AllenCrawley]

You folks here are leaders, you have ability to learn things and take them at face value. Just because Ryan deiss runs a funnel that you don't like doesn't mean that "funnels" are for scammy business's.

I'm pointing out issues with the Survival Life funnel. Everyone is glorifying it. I wanted to bring some balance and perspective to the conversation.

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[AndrewNC]

Because I truly don't know the answer, can somebody list any tier one companies that use sales funnels as a means of converting traffic into sales? Is this an arena that is relegated to unknown companies?

The last job I had did $100+ Million in front end revenue in 2013. While I was there, the company implemented a lot of the same funnel principles of what I see through through the Digital Marketer training - Mainly making the front end sales price much more affordable. Not only did their 'profit maximizer' products have a 95%+ conversion rate - They surpassed their $100 Million in front end sales within the first 4 months of 2014.

Although it's nothing proprietary, I dont feel right posting the company name or specifics on a public forum, but feel free to shoot me a PM or Facebook if you are interested.

 

[randomnumber314]

Can we all get on the same page in defining the funnel in discussion here.

Is it simply the: Prospects->leads->conversions=>remarketing to converted

Or are we talking about a bit more in-depth funneling?

For example, here's my funnel for my company, which sells a product around since the time of Rome.

 

[AndrewNC]

The last job I had did $100+ Million in front end revenue in 2013. While I was there, the company implemented a lot of the same funnel principles of what I see through through the Digital Marketer training - Mainly making the front end sales price much more affordable. Not only did their 'profit maximizer' products have a 95%+ conversion rate - They surpassed their $100 Million in front end sales within the first 4 months of 2014.

Although it's nothing proprietary, I dont feel right posting the company name or specifics on a public forum, but feel free to shoot me a PM or Facebook if you are interested.

Actually, I'll be real general to help people on here out:

1. Contacting the customer by phone within 10 minutes of them submitting the lead.
2. Un-bundle the main front end product, to make it much more affordable to get the customer in the door. *this was key to getting more customers*
3. The upsells are DIRECTLY related to the front end product, and because the upsells make the front end product better, some months we hit a 98% conversion rate on that (over 9,000 new in the month of march alone - tax season was prime sales time for this company. What is prime sales season for yours?).
4. Treat your customers right - 50% of the customers come again back because they get a deal that is much better than the first sale, and make them feel part of the 'community'

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[Vigilante]

Can we all get on the same page in defining the funnel in discussion here.

Is it simply the: Prospects->leads->conversions=>remarketing to converted

Or are we talking about a bit more in-depth funneling?

For example, here's my funnel for my company, which sells a product around since the time of Rome.

The OP was regarding the creator of the survival life funnel.

 

[randomnumber314]

The OP was regarding the creator of the survival life funnel.

I get that, but I know as much about the survival life funnel as I do about horse racing bets

 

[Harley]

I get that, but I know as much about the survival life funnel as I do about horse racing bets

Watch the Video. There is defiantly some informative stuff there. I agree with most though, in that a lot of the tactics he demonstrates appear a little shady - Those really annoying sits where you can't escape for pop-ups etc. He mentions in the video that his company does 30M a year from this model. Who knows...

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[AllenCrawley]

Watch the Video. There is defiantly some informative stuff there. I agree with most though, in that a lot of the tactics he demonstrates appear a little shady - Those really annoying sits where you can't escape for pop-ups etc. He mentions in the video that his company does 30M a year from this model. Who knows...

It's not the 'business model' I have issue with. It's the unethical (at best) tactics used in the survival life model. I can't speak for other implementations he or his team may have. I continue to bring this up because if people continue to point to survival life as the example people may think it's okay to model what they're doing down to the 'confusion' tactics and questionable credit card billing practices.

 

[MJ DeMarco]

He mentions in the video that his company does 30M a year from this model.

What model is that? The model of confusion? And deception? Reminds me of financier Allen Stanford. He was doing $30M a week. He also used confusion and deception. Now he's doing time in a Federal Penitentiary in Florida.

Money doesn't justify the means. Just because someone is making $X millions doing X, Y, and Z, doesn't mean it's morally right, ethical, or in some cases, even legal. It really makes me wanna puke that some people are willing to follow this model because they're blinded by a little green. That's fine, I just hope I NEVER come across your company or do business with it.

 

[Harley]

What model is that? The model of confusion? And deception? Reminds me of financier Allen Stanford. He was doing $30M a week. He also used confusion and deception. Now he's doing time in a Federal Penitentiary in Florida.

Money doesn't justify the means. Just because someone is making $X millions doing X, Y, and Z, doesn't mean it's morally right, ethical, or in some cases, even legal. It really makes me wanna puke that some people are willing to follow this model because they're blinded by a little green. That's fine, I just hope I NEVER come across your company or do business with it.

Totally agree, if his practices are shady, I would never support. I personally don't know and haven't researched, as I don't intend buying his program. Just found the content in the video useful for funnels in general and thought others may too.

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[Vagabond 007]

For those of you who are confused with what "funnel" we are talking about in reference to Ryan Deiss (and Perry Belcher, Ryan's partner...who did time in prison, take it how you want on that topic)...

Ryan's model is a 5 step process:

1. Lead Magnet - Something offered in exchange for a person's contact info (nothing new)

2. Tripwire Sale - Something offered at a very low cost (usually $7, but it can be anything you want). The MAIN point of the TW is to get a someone from being a prospect to a buyer. The relationship changes when someone spends money, even if it's just a few bucks

3. Core Offer - This is the main thing you want to sell. Not low priced, but not high priced either.

4. Profit Maximizers - Basically, these are the up sells and cross sells. These are where you can make a lot of extra money. This is because you already spent money to get the first sale, so any additional money here REALLY helps.

5. Return Path - This is where autoresponders come in. Of course you can stay in touch other ways as well. The point here is to form a relationship with your customers so they keep buying from you. This sales is always easier and more profitable than the first sale.

This is also the time when you sell higher priced things like coaching, mastermind groups, seminars, etc.


The whole idea behind this is that people were burning out their lists with the "old way." The old way being get their contact info and then keep hitting them with emails until they bought.

Now, with this "new" model, the whole idea behind it is that if you can get someone to buy something, even for only a few bucks, the whole dynamic changes. Mainly, you hit them with an upsell right away and they will be more likely to buy the upsell.

Btw, the easiest way to create a lead magnet or tripwire is to pull something out of your core product and use that.

There is more to it, but that should help bring anyone not familiar with it up to speed.

 

[Kung Fu Steve]

I don't even know where to begin replying to this thread.

Fact is, nobody likes marketers... we're liked as well as salesmen... but maybe not as bad as lawyers.

@Vigilante , you wanted to know what "real businesses" would ever use some type of funnel (and those weren't your exact words, I know, I'm just paraphrasing)

The big secret behind anything called a "funnel" or any other vocabulary you use is called Lifetime Customer Value

(it would be helpful for people to stop getting hung up on the word "funnel" -- every business is either a funnel or a single product)

It comes down to knowing what your numbers are so well that you can get creative with your marketing and break through.

Example # 1

How did Icy Hot become a household name? Especially when they had $0 for advertising and no contacts? Well they knew their numbers really well -- and by that I mean they knew that if someone bought one jar of Icy Hot, they would buy again and again... and not only that they would buy their other products (called upsell, add-ons, or cross-sells)

This means they could afford to GIVE AWAY the first jar completely because they knew they would make money on the back end due to the Lifetime Value of their customers. So what kind of a "funnel" did they create?

Well, they needed advertising so they went to 20,000 some radio stations and said "we want you to run our ad on the radio for free. And when you do so you get to keep 100% of every sale that you make. The radio stations won big because every time they ran that ad they made more money than the price of the advertising.

The "funnel" in this case was a "tripwire" (low priced irresistible offer) which allowed Icy Hot to collect a list of customers (not just prospects) for free, and in doing so they could count on repurchase after repurchase.

These guys have a long history of other products but let's leave it at that for the moment.

Example # 2

Why was Colombia House at one point responsible for 15% of all music sales... WORLD WIDE? Because again, they knew the Lifetime Customer Value. They were able to say "give me $1.00 and I will give you 13 records or tapes" They lost money on every single one of those offers -- but they KNEW that those people would stay in the membership program for around 11 months at full price (which was still a good price due to them creating their own printing presses).

Example # 3

How about Homex -- the largest home builder in Mexico who created grew by 300% (we're talking BILLIONS) by creating a "funnel" for lead acquisition. Educational material on the dangers of many families/many generations living under the same household plus a special deal for young families to purchase their own home. Their "funnel" included a "special report" instead of sending out big advertisements that said "call us for a house"

Every business needs a properly architect-ed "funnel"

But let's look at how "funnels" are used in every day businesses. And no, I don't use the term "funnel" specifically -- I talk about the Lifetime Value of a Customer

Example # 4

Dentists around the country struggle to get new customers. Market research tells me that it's rare people switch dentists once they've chose one. This is the reason the price per acquisition has gone through the roof for these dentists in recent years. So how do you create a "funnel" that is not only ethical but profitable?

You create an irresistible offer. The latest craze in dental work is teeth whitening. A dentist on average sells a teeth whitening procedure for upwards of $200 in clinic. The cost is approximately $30 depending on who you talk to.

Your funnel now becomes "$30 Professional Teeth Whitening!?" Hell yes.

Now you tell me what happens. Every freaking time you go to the dentist they say "don't forget about your flouride, don't forget about this, don't forget about that. (these are called upsells... my question is... is that unethical or are they looking out for you???)

The other part that is important now is you have a qualified customer. If someone comes in for a cosmetic procedure, would they be interested in more cosmetic procedures? Duh. Every time you sit in a dentist's chair you literally sit in a "funnel" -- Xrays, braces, head gear, spacers, root canals, on and on and on.

"Oh but Steve, that's NECESSARY stuff"

Okay let's go into the unnecessary...

Example # 5

Let's take a random example... oh I don't know... a karate school! I found it was a very difficult sell to get someone to commit to getting their black belt (5+ years of training and lots of money) in the first ten minutes I met them.

So we started with a free class. Then $14.95 for a month + uniform (irresistible offer). Then a year long program. Then a 5 year program. Then a lifetime program.

But the key was that I could lose money on the $14.95 + uniform (I lost approx. $5 each) because I could count on 63% of those people to sign up on the next program. And 24% of THOSE people to continue on. I knew my lifetime customer value.

Example # 6

What is one of the hardest things to sell? A roof. Unless it has a hole in it you probably don't want to fork up the cash to redo it. How does a roofer than lower his cost of acquisition?

Gutter cleaning! He gets on the roof and cleans all of the gutters for $15. Loses lots of money BUT that cost is WAY less than the normal customer acquisition cost. Now he has created a list of customers and approximately when their roof needs to be redone. The customer is happy because they get a cheap gutter cleaning, the business is happy because they have generated a lead & customer.

Example # 7

The wedding "funnel" is probably one of the hardest funnels to get all of the pieces together but if you were able to figure it out you would make a fortune.

Think about this:

When a guy goes to buy an engagement ring they are extremely likely to want to buy a wedding planner, a dress, tuxes, a cake, catering, a deejay, a location, flowers, etc. etc. etc. Now if you can be there at the START of this funnel you have unlimited opportunities.

....

How many more would you like?

Vig, you have a funnel in your business right now. You have many products (called cross-sells), but let me ask -- what is your customer acquisition cost right now? How can we decrease that by offering upsells, add-ons, or more cross-sells? How can you package other products that people would like? How can you offer more things your customers want? Training on how to use the products?

In your "funnel" what attracts them to your business? What causes them to buy? Once they buy, what are they most likely to buy next?

Couple of final thoughts:

1. Everyone here has hinted at people being "unethical" -- I'd challenge that by asking you to show me EXACTLY what you think is unethical. Don't just say "this is unethical" or "that is unethical" show me exactly.

Global belief systems are very destructive and negative. Same reason we all hate the Germans... (that was a joke by the way... I' German...)

2. Two phrases everyone in business needs to learn: Customer Lifetime Value and Customer Value Optimization

3. I'll steal a phrase from one of my heroes Mike Rowe...

"This has become so politicized that if you say you're FOR something automatically people assume you are AGAINST something else."

Let's not sit here and bicker and argue about stupid stuff like this. Instead of saying "this is bad" why not ask "why does this work, why doesn't it work?"

Don't get defensive, get curious.

 

[Vigilante]

Excellent post Steve. A couple of points of clarity for you…

1. You didn't address the fact that the only source of insight on the revenue from his organization… Is his organization. "I'm making a killing selling rubber galoshes. Millions. I'll let me show you how you can also make a killing selling rubber galoshes. By my book for only $19.95. But you have to buy the book today to get that special price." He has a funnel selling funnels and funnel building tools to funnel enthusiasts. The pitch doesn't work as well if you say "I really don't sell a whole lot and many of my customers charge me back, but I will show you how to do what I do for the low price of..."

My point is simply repeating his success talking points, the root of which emanates from him, doesn't validate it. He needs you to believe that so that you buy his class. People on this forum have bought these classes based solely on these claims. I don't know if they're true or not. I'm simply pointing out the fact that he brokers information based on perception of his tremendous success. I'm not going to perpetuate that unchecked.

2. My question wasn't understood due to the brevity of my statement. I am not questioning as to whether or not there are other sales funnels in existence. I am questioning as to whether or not any top tier consumer products brands have deployed tactics similar to those strategies used by the Survival Life funnel. In doing a little bit of side research on that since posting the question, the answer is seemingly no. Companies like Nike, Coca-Cola, and Zappos aren't bringing you in to the top of an online funnel, capturing your credit card, and then adding dozens of affiliated hooks into you hoping that you don't generate chargebacks. My complete thought wasn't debating the existence of sales processes, but more specific as to these exact type of tactics and whether or not they are deployed by any household brands. And the answer is… I haven't found any yet.

3. There are many businesses that on the surface look legitimate but underneath are not. Your hometown happens to have featured one of the largest such examples of something that on the front side looked exceptional but on the backside was fraught with fraud.

It's good to question processes and tactics with a skeptical and critical eye towards underlying truth. Legitimate businesses can face such scrutiny without concern. Within this forum, there is more and more praise for this type of business model but there never has been a discussion about the ethics, legalities, and longevity of such a business model. As many people use this forum as a launching point for their own business ventures, this is a healthy discussion to have from all sides.

Not every business practice that generates profit is worth emulating.

You mentioned my consumer products businesses, and while I don't go into the specifics of any of those businesses here on the forum… My business generates lifetime consumer value by providing excellent products, a buying experience that exceeds the consumer expectations, and phenomenal customer service. As it pertains to my own businesses, I don't need any tactics to manipulate consumer behavior. It probably wouldn't surprise you to learn that we've never received a single credit card chargeback. I'm not interested in any of the specific details of my business entering this discussion so as to not create a sideshow, but we're doing just fine generating business the old-fashioned way. One customer time, and exceeding their value expectation. I want my companies to be legendary.

As such, any new marketing strategies that I deploy would have to be to enhance the customer experience, not detract from it. I believe the sales funnel that GoDaddy deploys enhances their customer experience by broadening vision into ancillary services that they offer. They also give you an immediate and quick out to your shopping cart, without the need for a process that traps you in the cycle while they repetitively charge your credit card.

I'm still waiting for an example of an a-tier consumer products company that deploys the same type of tactics that are deified in the quest to replicate the success or perceived success of the types of funnels in discussion here. I haven't come across one yet.

So my conclusion is
1. Sales funnels are not only NOT evil, but have been around since the beginning of time. I'm sure at the Coliseum the romans offered you add-on sales to go with your wine goblet.

2. There are great examples of great businesses that use sales processes to increase consumer experiences and sell more. At Best Buy, they called this "increasing the basket" hoping a customer left the store as many items in the shopping basket as possible. They also focused on that being a great experience for the customer.

3. There are emerging new strategies in online marketing that use confusion, new processes consumers are unfamiliar with that mirror processes they are familiar with, and deception to inflate sales. Those tactics generate customer dissatisfaction, complaints, and chargebacks. Those are business practices that are not worth emulating.

This is a healthy discussion for this form to have as one of the higher profile entrepreneurial launching points on the Internet. I will continue to follow along with this discussion and mine highlights and positive parts of new marketing strategies for my businesses.

Don't be afraid to not drink the Kool-Aid.

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[Kung Fu Steve]

Obviously I didn't mean any of it as an attack on your business and I don't expect you to share your details.

I am slightly biased because I've been working with those guys for approximately the past two years. I'm not going to reveal their business model on the forum but we can chat in private if you'd like

My thought is that maybe you're trying to fit every business into "Ryan's" thing (and maybe that was the whole point of this discussion), but it's obviously gimmickized (... new word!) for the mass market.

But up-sells, down-sells, cross-sells, loss-leaders, monthly programs, inquiries, etc, etc. the stuff that make up a "funnel" is nothing new and IS used in every consumer brand.

Once again -- maybe we're discussing if a consumer brand has used every step in the "ryan deiss funnel program" -- so I could be way off here.

Anyways; I have some serious questions:

And these popped up in my head as I read this because I don't quite have an answer.

You mentioned capturing credit card billing -- what makes it ethical and what makes it not?

I asked this question in the shower after I read this (yes I was thinking about you in the shower) and I'm going back and forth. You think Survival Life's monthly rebill is unethical -- so I said "okay, let me assume that's true than what other companies do I know that do rebills like this?"

There are a few people on this forum that do rebills like this that in the public eye are seen as MORE unethical.

Than I thought "okay, if THIS one is unethical, which ones WOULD be ehtical?"

But besides Acai berries and other Dr. Oz crap the only other one I could think of was Proactiv ... are they unethical?

Then I looked at all my monthly bills, auto responders, hosting, etc etc.

Then I thought "is it only unethical if I'm not okay with signing up for it?

Then I thought that's silly because I wouldn't sign up for it if I wasn't okay with it.

Okay, so there are some that don't TELL you you're signed up for it -- could this be key?

If that's the case, Survival life is okay because they tell you what you're getting and when you're getting it.

But what about other factors? Easy to cancel?

I guess I'm okay with my hosting and autoresponder because it's quick and easy to cancel if I want...

I'm honestly looking for some feedback here because this subject seems to bring up some very passionate opinions.
Tell me your thoughts?

What makes a "re-bill" unethical, and what makes it ethical?

 

[healthstatus]

What makes a "re-bill" unethical, and what makes it ethical?

Clear instruction on what you are signing up for. When you have a re-bill system, use words like subscription and recurring. Don't say bottle of _____ then I get BOTTLES.

Make it simple to quit getting more. One call to the newspaper, boom, no more newspapers. None of this, call this 800 number between 3am and 4am lower easterberry time, with your 78 digit order number, three pieces of id ready to fax, your original credit card number, and the numbers on every bottle you have received so far.