What if EVERYONE were legally required to carry a concealed weapons permit?

[Jake]

 

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[LightHouse]

No one runs into police stations and starts shooting everyone.....
.

Sure they do, it happened a few miles from me about 6-7 years ago

Fairfax, Virginia Police Station Shooting (UPDATED)


In fact it happens all the time. More guns isnt that answer, and taking away guns is also not the answer. Guns are a tool like anything else. The mis focus is on guns and not on people. Same shit with super size meals at McDonalds. The medias focus is reflected in your post, even if you are on the opposite side, you are still looking at the wrong thing.

 

[DeletedUser2]

This way you prevent getting guns in the hands of bad people.

hahahahahahahahah

bad people find ways to get guns.

period.



Z

 

[DeletedUser2]

more dead people over stupid things.

 

[DeletedUser2]

I think that's a horrible idea! They should ban guns instead and make it illegal to have one.
Why would anyone own 1 or more guns? I just don't get it. They are meant to kill other people.
Might aswell have a bazooka and a sniper rifle at home if guns are legal.

very different culture

the world has bad people in it.
bad people will always find a way to get a gun

guns also protect people, from bad people.


so I would rather have the option.

Z

 

[LightHouse]

^ The post that leads to this thread getting locked.

No it wont, politics will get this thread locked, he is just on the other side of the issue. I carry daily when possible (not into DC though) but I don't over do it on pro-gun. It's just as bad as over doing it on anti-gun. Some people do not like guns and never want to touch them, i respect that. I wouldn't want that person to handle a gun because it would likely be mis-handled.

 

[adiakritos]

In fact it happens all the time. More guns isnt that answer, and taking away guns is also not the answer. Guns are a tool like anything else. The mis focus is on guns and not on people. Same shit with super size meals at McDonalds. The medias focus is reflected in your post, even if you are on the opposite side, you are still looking at the wrong thing.

I think you make a great point here.

I also really like the post on the Swedes way of dealing with guns.

Our situation may not be the same, although there has to be something we can learn from their system... like using a "To take what works and discard the rest" approach instead of thinking in terms of "this model works better than that one".

We all have to take a drivers course to learn how to drive. Cars are tools as well. They can kill people if we don't learn to use them. They are used in a society that has an infrastructure to support them, like traffic laws, signs, and roads, traffic cameras, general drivers etiquette, driver schools, auto insurance, culture...etc

In the same way we can begin to develop an infrastructure that supports the objective of protecting the majority of citizens from the minority of people who choose to commit crimes with weapons.

Obviously this is an extremely complex matter, although complexity becomes less and less of an issue when there is enough pressure to find a solution.

 

[LightHouse]

Are you in danger?

No one in particular called me today to let me know they were scheduling a shooting at my office, so I am unsure as of 1:40PM EST...

Also, no one called me last time I was in a car accident to let me know that car was going to run into mine, it just sort of happened.

 

[Mike39]

Yes that is why it's not a good idea to make guns legal in the first place, if you use them to protect.
Anyone can just break in a home and steal a gun from someone who has to for protection.
So it would be better if there was not even an option to steal a gun from someone's home, cuz there wouldn't be any!

This way you prevent getting guns in the hands of bad people.

Also there is gun crime in the Netherlands, but mostly just gangsters shooting other gangsters.
But you don't notice that because those are planned liquidations.

Wow, so please explain to me this; Coca (the plant used to make cocaine) is not grown anywhere in the united states and yet historically it has run rampant through big cities. Making something illegal will not keep it out of the hands of the criminals, only the law abiding citizens.

:bgh:

 

[Mike39]

Well coke can't shoot at you. I know people who use it and people who sell it, while it is still illegal in the Netherlands.
If you walk the streets at night time in Amsterdam you will see many people trying to sell it to you, but they do not bother me or threaten me.
But here in the Netherlands weed and prostitution is legal, so where theres money there is peopple who sell coke. Many wealthy people actually use coke here.

Seriously?

US Drug related Deaths: 39,147
US Gun Related Deaths: 31,672
US Traffic (Car) Related Deaths: 32,367

Well, this is awkward... See, drug deaths outnumber gun deaths in the US.

Um, so should we ban cars while were at it? Because the inanimate cars kill people, not the people driving them....

Right? Right guys?

 

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[Mike39]

It's not what about which out numbers what.
By the numbers of the Gun Related deaths in the US that you just showed 31,672, don't you think it would be way less if guns were illegal?
Because the only ones with guns then would be mobsters or small time criminals instead of the avarage Joe who turns psycho suddenly.

Have a good day guys

The majority of gun related deaths are not from average Joe turned psycho though, they are mainly suicide and criminal related deaths.

Example 1: The FBI reports there were 8,583 gun related murders during 2011, of those, 71 percent (approximately 6,100) were gun related criminal on criminal deaths. (Note: these are murders, not deaths)

Example 2: The US Department of Justice reports that approximately 60% of all adult firearm deaths are by suicide, 61% more than deaths by homicide.

So statistically speaking, mass shootings and the "average Joe turned psycho" is the least of our worries.

As a rough estimate, 61% or 19,003 of these deaths are from suicide and 6,100 are from criminal related murder, you can leave the last 6,569 to divide up between self defense, civilian shootings, accidents, etc. and yes some very marginal mass murders.

Also to note, since a majority of gun related deaths are from suicide, technically if you banned guns the number of deaths would substantially decline, but I would venture to guess that the number of suicides would remain the same. So that makes your statement just about worthless

Boom.

 

[AllenCrawley]

more dead people over stupid things.

Well, Switzerland has the lowest gun related crime rate of any civilized country in the world and they issue every household a gun. They also train every adult how to use that gun and required once a year training.

How Switzerland Developed a Gun Culture That Works | TIME.com

 

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[DeletedUser2]

Well, Switzerland has the lowest gun related crime rate of any civilized country in the world and they issue every household a gun. They also train every adult how to use that gun and required once a year training.

we have walmart
rednecks
and are a very large mixing pot of a ton of different opinions, from many different cultures.

as a whole we do not share a culture consensuses here.

while the diversity is great. making every one carry guns is going to get more people shot. just a numbers thing.



Z

 

[LightHouse]

Haha, yea I don't mind getting flamed, I just had an opinion on it from the other side of the world.
I was at a shooting one time in Amsterdam at 3am, I was leaving the club and then 2 thugs were shooting each other. They both still live though, but one is in a wheelchair for ever.
No bystanders got hurt luckily.

A lot of the shootings in Amsterdam is really gang or mob related.

Let me just run something by you here. Say instead of a club you were having dinner with your wife and child. The guys that were shooting at each other suddenly decided to turn their guns on everyone else with your logic of "they had a bad day". Now they likely are carrying stolen guns so in your scenario they would have guns anyway because they did not obtain them in legal ways to be denied.

Would you rather have a gun on you and have had proper training with it to defend yourself and your family from being murdered, or would you rather no one in the place had any legal guns and be killed since guns are bad??

 

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[CEBenz]

So if outlawing guns cuts violence. Why does the UK, per the Home Office website, have a significantly higher rate of violent crime per capita than the US, per the FBI website. Some people need to learn to think critically. Brazil has all but outlawed guns yet has a problem with SERIOUS gun crime. We aren't talking AR15s. We are talking full military hardware here. Muggings are common and frequently groups of armed men rob hostels. As someone said above, guns are tools. To me, it's up to each individual to seek out training. If untrained, I'm not even worried about them as they're unlikely to be able to perform an effective draw. Only the police and military should have them? Get real. Do you have any idea how poorly trained the average soldier or cop is where handguns are concerned? In the state of Washington, last I heard, law enforcement cadets receive about 40 hours if firearms training. 8 hours live fire on the range and 32 classroom hours. And that's one of the higher standards in the country. Now to compare and contrast, personally I have right about 120 hours live fire range training and 80 hours classroom. That doesn't even get into matches I competed in (used to compete weekly).

Someone above likened violent encounters to car accidents and that is a pretty accurate comparison. No one ever calls the police DURING a car accident. It's always after. Do you think someone is going to call the police during a violent encounter? Not likely. It'll be after. Lets also not forget that the police can't do anything before someone harms you. They have to wait until someone has already made the effort.

When you really crunch the numbers. The fact that there are so many millions of guns in civilian hands and we only have a couple thousand incidents a year. That's actually pretty remarkable.

 

[JAJT]

As a Canadian I'm personally not exposed to guns so I'm somewhat removed from this situation. Hell, our gun ownership rate in cities is something like 2% last I checked - I literally don't know a single person who owns one and have never seen a real one in person outside of law enforcement or cattle farms.

That being said, it is delusional to think "bad guys" won't get their hands on WHATEVER they want, when they want it. Laws don't stop illegal activity. Never has, never will. Drug laws don't stop people from buying drugs any more than guns laws stop people from buying guns.

All other things being equal I'd prefer more good guys owning guns than bad guys. And guns laws only stop the good guys from getting their hands on them.

If anything I'd argue for stricter penalties for improper gun handling and storage rather than gun ownership restrictions.

 

[adiakritos]

Like, if everyone in the US over the age of 25, who is in good mental health, and who has shown they are responsible, were to be legally required (or just successfully motivated somehow besides using authoritative force) to carry a concealed weapon and have a CWP... what do you think would be the result?

Do you think there may be less crime?

If criminals knew that EVERYONE is carrying, everywhere they go, do you think they may be less damage from or inclination to rob that liquor store or bank, hijack that airplane, shoot those children in those schools, murder those people in the theater and shopping malls.. if they knew they'd most likely get killed fairly quickly?

No one runs into police stations and starts shooting everyone.....

The only exception would be like "places of nuisance" like calle ocho or redneck festivals where people get drunk and fight regularly.

I'd expect that in terms of criminal activity involving life or death situations, that may have the effect of a society that polices its self.

I mean, the actions toward banning assaults weapons has sent people in the US on a gun buying frenzy. A friend of mine owns a pawn shop and said that his guns sales have rose to 300% in the last 2 months.

 

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[khsrr]

Don't think it would be a good idea, at all.

 

[Kak]

An armed society is a polite society. That said, I would not want to force the everyone, to carry a gun. Most people wouldn't know what the hell to do with it.

Hmm, why is Houston/Dallas safer than Chicago? New York? DC?

I highly suggest:

http://www.justfacts.com/guncontrol.asp

 

[Kak]

I carry a gun every day, BTW.

 

[AllenCrawley]

I think that's a horrible idea! They should ban guns instead and make it illegal to have one.
Why would anyone own 1 or more guns? I just don't get it. They are meant to kill other people.
Might aswell have a bazooka and a sniper rifle at home if guns are legal.

Here in the Netherlands it is illegal to own a gun of any sort. (Unless you have a license, but they are very very strict here to get one)
If no-one has guns in their home then the crime rate would go down, because it would be harder to get them.

^ The post that leads to this thread getting locked.

 

[adiakritos]

I wouldn't exactly feel safe doing anything other than crime either knowing everyone had a gun.

You wouldn't feel safe doing anything other than crime if everyone carried a gun?

That's an interesting perspective.

 

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[adiakritos]

This diagram, in most cases, I would expect that there are at least 2-3 times the amount of good guys around with guns for any given bad guy who wants to use it.

 

[Kak]

Good guys can turn into bad guys and cause a major problem with a weapon.

This is the psychobabble of someone who has never fired a firearm in their life. The strange theory that the gun controls the person and makes them insane is retarded logic. So by this theory, do you think cops should be allowed to carry guns? Are they somehow mentally superior to the rest of us because they can somehow resist the temptation to randomly kill people?

There is a gun sitting on my desk right now and it is not begging for action. LMAO

 

[AllenCrawley]

Source?

Honestly, I actually read that a couple months ago in an article but I didn't verify their source.

From the article I posted above...

"Yet, despite the prevalence of guns, the violent-crime rate is low: government figures show about 0.5 gun homicides per 100,000 inhabitants in 2010. By comparison, the U.S rate in the same year was about 5 firearm killings per 100,000 people, according to a 2011 U.N. report."

Wikipedia states Switzerland had 43 homicides in 2010 where a firearm was involved.

Gun politics in Switzerland - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In comparision, the US had 31,076 gun related homicides. That's 85 deaths per day, 3 per hour.

Source: Nat’l Ctr. for Injury Prevention & Control, U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, Web-Based Injury Statistics Query & Reporting System (WISQARS) Injury Mortality Reports, 1999-2010, for National, Regional, and States (Dec. 2012), http://webappa.cdc.gov/sasweb/ncipc/dataRestriction_inj.html (hereinafter WISQARS Injury Mortality Reports, 1999-2010. Note: Users must agree to data use restrictions on the CDC site prior to accessing data).

 

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[Kak]

No, what I mean is that if someone has a bad day or something they can do bad things with a gun they posses.
Like the guy who shot all those people at the cinema when the movie Batman was playing. Everyone said he was normal before he did this.

So you are telling me that you might have the urge to take another person's life because you had "a bad day". Get your head checked bub. I definitely wouldn't want you carrying a gun.

 

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[AllenCrawley]

Nope I wouldn't, but there are some people who would, like in that shooting at the Batman premier, I don't know in which state that was.

He wasn't just having a bad day. He planned this out in advance.

2012 Aurora shooting - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

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[adiakritos]

No, what I mean is that if someone has a bad day or something they can do bad things with a gun they posses.
Like the guy who shot all those people at the cinema when the movie Batman was playing. Everyone said he was normal before he did this.

Maybe for someone who is mentally ill, like people with bipolar or skitzos. Or maybe even people with a record for being prone to violence because of anger issues.

You'd literally have to be suicidal to an serious degree if you knew that pulling out that gun to do something bad meant your imminent death.

 

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[Kak]

I guess we should ban cars too. Some guy having a bad day could easily plow into a crowd of people.

And pencils in schools, those are pointy. I think they should write with a quill.

 

[Rickson9]

What did you envision when evaluating mental health?