My Turn. Pulling the trigger on my first ecommerce business!

[DeletedUser2]

This thread,

As someone who mentors people on a regular basis, I have had this happen a couple times.

and I have zero tolerance for it.

dont steal or copy me.

its implied
its stated
its assumed

You SHOULD know better
but it shows the color of the persons character quickly.

WHEN it does happen. im kinda glad. because it usually happens pretty quickly.
and I know to cut them off fast before I waste too much time with them.

saves me from knowing an a**hole years later.
when they can do more damage.

for those that copy others, your missing 90% or more of what it takes to be successful. what you see, the site, the products ect. is just the tip of the iceberg. ALOT of business is relationships. ones that matter when shit breaks, (and it will break), that and the execution of the idea. this guy will miss 99% of what it takes to make shit work when it comes flying apart. the most critical ingredient.

he will have no access to the ones who can solve the problem in 5 min for him. he lost alot.

as for his "I gotta feed my family" sob story. that is utter bullshit. period. just shows his utter lack of character, by justifying bullshit with a whinny story.


as a mentor, this just makes me a bit sad. but it does not deter me from posting, or helping how ever I can. this just makes me say, yep I glad we have a core of people who dont put up with that bullshit. This whole thread makes me happy to be a mentor

because when idiots come along, AND THEY WILL, the group does not put up with his bullshit.

Competition? there is none in this world really. until you hit revenue in the millions.
YOU are your biggest competition, BIO knows this. that's why he wasn't worried.
He was offended. and he should be. being helpful is a way for those of us who have done it and learned, to give back.

we do so because we feel the need, or feel compelled, or we feel like returning the favor, as in my case, to the 3 critical mentors I had in my life, that helped shape it, and make me successful.

I will continue to mentor people. I will continue to post here. I will not share publicly my links nor will I worry about competition, (im still my own biggest obstacle, ) but if you look, I dont often share my own links here. because...

I TRUST PEOPLE

I trust people to be human,
I trust they will lie
they will steal,
and they will try to be sneaky.

I trust people to be people.
And, I let them

But in the masses, I know there are people who rise above it, Who struggle to reach out of the muck mud of just being part of humanity
they strive to be leaders, to be more than they can be.

They are the the ones, who can reach beyond "just making money" at any cost.
they are the ones who will someday also mentor, help, and lead others.

they make a difference..

and thats why I mentor people,

Even when you get the bad apples from time to time.


TO all you who truly strive to be better
help is out there...

become worth it. and you can have it.

become worthless, and steal, and you will have to steal the rest of your life.


Good luck



Z

 

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[biophase]

As I stated before, I am in NO WAY attempting to take business from Bio. My site is centered around hunting blinds and camo netting, ghillie suits are only a side option for my customers. Bio has a far larger selection of ghillie suits than I do, and I in no way intend to even compete with him on that. The only reason I even have them is because one of my suppliers said that they offered a few and said I can list them if I would like. As you know, they go right in line with hunting and concealment just as camo netting does.

Some of you may not agree with this, and that is fair enough. Everyone has an opinion and is entitled to it. I have worked hard on this site even though it isn't much compared to most of you experienced vets, but to me it is a starting point and something I am proud of. I am not going to just trash the site.

Blake,

I didn't want to respond publicly until you responded to my email but I can see your intentions from this post. I'm sorry that you feel that way and do not see what you are doing here. You are selling 4 different categories of products on your site and 2 are in direct competition with me.

18 ghillie suits
33 camo nets
6 hunting vests
51 hunting blinds products

So 57 of your 108 products, over 50% are in direct competition with me. You are selling hunting blinds as a side option! You can try to make convince yourself that what you are doing is ok. But everyone here knows and can see what a stab in the back this is.

My purpose of being a part of this forum was to learn and try to make a living in a different manner than I currently am. I have two kids that rely on me, so making a living on my own terms is my goal. I posted my site up on here for everyone to see an review and give me some feed back, and I appreciate all of the feed back I have gotten so far. If I was trying to "steal" someone else's business intentionally, I certainly wouldn't have posted it up on here for you all to see and provide feed back on, or email it to Bio directly to critique for me.

You obviously did not think it was stealing or you wouldn't have emailed me. I do believe that. However, after all the criticism on here you are choosing to keep the site up. This tells me that now you know it is wrong and you have choosen to go into competition with me.

It's ironic that in your email to me you said in your email " I figure you of all people could offer me the best insight because my particular product(s) is in the outdoors/hunting niche which I believe is similar to your area of expertise. I have been putting in a lot of time and effort to start putting all of this in motion, and it would be very helpful to get a second opinion on where I am so far and if I am missing something. I don't feel comfortable disclosing it on the forum because I do not want to create my own competition as a result of every new pop up member trying to run with it. I have done my research, contacted a supplier, with the help of you set up the shipping and brokerage, and started developing my site."

So I am asking you again to change your niche. I know you have put alot of time into it. But this is not the way you want to get into business, by making enemies.

 

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[biophase]

for those that copy others, your missing 90% or more of what it takes to be successful. what you see, the site, the products ect. is just the tip of the iceberg. ALOT of business is relationships. ones that matter when shit breaks, (and it will break), that and the execution of the idea. this guy will miss 99% of what it takes to make shit work when it comes flying apart. the most critical ingredient.

he will have no access to the ones who can solve the problem in 5 min for him. he lost alot.

Competition? there is none in this world really. until you hit revenue in the millions.
YOU are your biggest competition, BIO knows this. that's why he wasn't worried.
He was offended. and he should be. being helpful is a way for those of us who have done it and learned, to give back.

Z

This is exactly it. I tell everyone that the easiest part of starting an ecommerce site is putting up the site. I would say that it is about 5% of the actual work that needs to be done. If I look at his site from a neutral standpoint, I can see easily 10 issues that I would change that would instantly help. However, he has lost all help from me and this forum and will have to figure them out himself as I did. The part may take him months even years which would cost a great deal of time and money as a simple change can increase conversions by 20% instantly.

Relationships are what matters the most. I don't know everything about PPC, but I have a friend that does. I don't know everything about SEO, but I have a friend that does. When something is stuck in customs, guess what? I call a friend, not an importing business. How am I and other here able to do that? Easily, we've built no lasting relationships on trust. Being able to email and talk to them about things without being charged an hourly rate is great.

 

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[Russ H]

Amail, FWIW, the older, crustier mods had this happen in the early days of the forum.

Some folks just don't understand the value of mentoring.

Or, they just don't "get" that you don't sh*t where you eat.

None of those folks are around here anymore.

They were all banned.

Some went quietly. Some were cut off in the middle of an argument.

And others, like bclark85, martyred themselves on the cross of self-righteousness, and endeavored to go out with their heads held high, delusion at its best (or worst, depending on how you look at it).

*******

MJ has created a singularly unique place here, on the web.

A place where older, more seasoned vets can share some of their expertise without fear or concern that those around them will shamelessly use their help against them.

It's stayed that way for many, many years.

I hope to see it continue for many more.

Funny thing about business:

Ethics is ethics is ethics. Not much has changed in the past 300 years.

Look at the story of ANYONE who has risen to the top.

Those who have appreciated their mentors and teachers go one way.

Those that f*ck over their teachers and mentors go the other.

It's a choice we all have to make.

-Russ H.

 

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[Vigilante]

This will be the last post that I read of yours. Please don't draw any inspiration from me. Please stop mentioning me in your posts.

Because of you, the thread that you referenced written by me is no longer available for other people to learn from. You obviously misinterpreted the spirit of the reason I authored that information. After 60,000 views to that thread, you're the first person to ever take something from the forum as long as I have been here and attempt to use it against the person who authored it for your own gain to their detriment. He offered you help both on and off the forum. You copied his business. You then asked him to check it out and tell you what he thought?

You may be OK with it. I'm not.

What comes around goes around. Life is too short for this type of shit.

 

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[Vigilante]

I think if you allow the integrity of the site and it's posters revealed intentions to be compromised, the value of the forum en total diminishes. This single incident has already had a detrimental effect and a chilling effect on the information exchange that makes this place unique from most other oasis on the internet. Most people remark that the free exchange of ideas here is what people find most refreshing. Hundreds of successful new businesses have been started that sparked from here. I think it is worth protecting.

 

[G_Alexander]

Why are you pricing yourself at a point so far below your competitors? You mentioned that a successful would-be competitor of yours is selling at $94.00 markup, and has a healthy unit volume each month. Why don't you try to compete on the quality (value) of your product / brand rather than price point?

It is easy to lower your prices, but very difficult to raise them after you have established yourself as a "value-play retailer / brand". Pricing yourself at the same price or even a bit higher than your competitors should not be left out of the realm of scenarios; especially since you are planning on having stronger targeted marketing than they are and possibly building a brand. Let them be the generic peddler while you sell "quality brand name" products.

You are looking at a gross margin of 54% currently...tack on your shipping fees, retailer fees and taxes and you will have a substantially lower operating and net margin percentage. Of course, when your order count goes up the numbers will look better.

Whatever you decide: good luck, keep us posted.

 

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[wade1mil]

I have created a new forum for entrepreneurs to join and talk about business.

It's exactly like this one, except the logo is different. So in reality, it's totally different.

Thanks for the inspiration to create something of my own from scratch MJ.

This is WAAAAAAAY worse than the other douche bag that stole the golf website IMO.

 

[Amail]

Folks, bclark85 is banned.

This forum thrives in large part because experienced entrepeneurs with vast breadth of skill and knowledge are willing to lay out exactly how to become successful. Step by step in some cases. This exposes them to the threat of creating their own competition, but they do it never the less. The tacit understanding is people will use that information to drive their own success, but will respect and give wide berth to the business the mentors lay out.

Bclark85 has not only betrayed that trust, but doesn't see the harm in it. This attitude makes everyone from here on out leary of divulging anything about their business and brings down the value of the entire forum.

 

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[biophase]

As I stated in my email to you I had absolutely no idea that you also sell camo netting.

Again, I had absoultely no idea that you also sell camo netting as you do not discuss it in any of your main threads and only refer to your ghillie stores in your sig.

Blake,

I have never mentioned what I sell in my threads. You would only know by reading my sig so I really find this hard to believe. My sig has included all my stores for years. I don't believe that you only went to the ghillie store link and not the other links. In fact, my ghillie suit store sells camo nets and tactical vests also. Being that you copied and paste my shipping & returns page leads me to believe that you have been to my site for longer than just a glance and somehow missed the camo nets and the tactical vest link?

Come on.

Yes, you have apologized to me via email and I really want to believe that you had no idea that what you were doing was shady. But look at how the others on this forum have responded. You are in the wrong here but you still can't see why.

It's not due to the competition, I know competition comes and goes. Many stores have come and gone in my 6 years of running my stores. I don't feel betrayed by any of them. The fact is that you got your knowledge and ideas from my thread which is what makes it not "just" competition. It's a personal thing and whether you believe it should or not, it is a personal attack on my business and it does help power my competitive drive.

I have a solution. How about you put the ghillie suits back onto your site and I'll add the Avery hunting blinds onto mine and we'll call it a day? How does that make you feel? Is it just competition?

 

[snowbank]

Said this a million times before but worth saying again: "what" you do is irrelevant. I don't understand how people don't get this.

Biophase isn't successful because he sells ghillie suits. He's successful because he dominates the category he's in, and has worked extremely hard to know the niche inside and out. The fact that he sells ghillie suits is irrelevant to his success.

If someone still wanted to go into ghillie suits + wanted some free advice— easy: sell all of Biophase's brands of ghillie suits.(you'd essentially be working as a wholesaler for him, while learning the e-com game) He'd want you to do well selling them.

 

[biophase]

I have a solution. How about you put the ghillie suits back onto your site and I'll add the Avery hunting blinds onto mine and we'll call it a day? How does that make you feel? Is it just competition?

He added the ghillie suits back onto his site, so I guess I'm adding hunting blinds back on mine.

 

[bclark85]

Alright everyone, here it goes! First off I would like to say thank you to Vigilante and Biophase for their wealth of knowledge and experience that they have outlined in their blogs. It inspired me to say the least to make the move and start doing something to move myself closer to freedom from the corporate world. I would also like to personally thank everyone else that has contributed their info and knowledge to those threads as well. The one thing that stuck with me through everything is you just have to go for it rather than second guessing yourself and making excuses.

So here is where I am at as of this morning: I spent the last week looking at different products and then researching them like crazy to get an idea of what they are selling for here in the US, how much of a demand there is, what the competition looks like, and how I can do things better than the competition. Out of the 10 possible products I narrowed it down to two that actually look like they are worth running with.

I purchased the domain name last night, and received my first sample this morning. Here is what I did a little different though. I found one of the products through a manufacturer in China and got some quotes. I asked for a sample, and the price was going to be about $200.00 total after purchasing only two samples because they wont give me a great price for just the samples (I was on the phone with three different suppliers last night trying to negotiate prices down).
After doing some research I found that there are only about three other sites selling this same product; of the 3, two of the sites look like garbage and are hard to navigate. They also don't really highlight the value of the product and sell other products as well, so they don't really specialize in this product and niche, I will be. The other site is fairly well laid out, and they also sell on eBay. They also sell the same exact product from the distributor that I am looking at and sampling. Based off of the prices that they are going to give me in bulk, it looks like this US seller is marking the price up pretty seriously. Based off what is shows they have sold on eBay, they are moving about 50-60 of these products each month on eBay alone at a $94.00 mark up. I think one of my biggest opportunities is marketing better than them, but also cutting the price down by about $10.00 less than they are to compete with them.

Here are the financials that I came up with so far based off of rough calculations:

Total Quantity Ordered	30
Purchase Price Each	$65.00
Purchase Price Bulk	$1,950.00
Shipping	$200.00
Total Cost of Product	$2,150.00
Selling Price Each	$120.50
Total Sales	$3,615.00
eBay Fees Paypal Fees	?
Amazon Fees	?
Total Profit	$1,465.00

Judging by the research that I have found and what my potential competitors are selling, I should be able to move about 20 to 30 units per month on eBay alone.

When I purchase a bulk order of 200 or more, my price per unit drops down to $48.00 each, substantially increasing my profits. I plan to sell on eBay for 2 to 3 months while building my site and learning SEO to get my online store going. This should help eliminate some of the eBay/ Amazon costs per sale.

What I found was ordering my sample product from my competitor was cheaper and faster than ordering it from China since it isn't in bulk. I received it yesterday and I am very impressed with the quality. I am actually thinking about seeing if the manufacturer can put a branding on the product for me so I can start building a company name on the market.


So my next steps this week are to order my first shipment of product. I plan on researching a couple more things this evening, and if all looks well I will order the product Monday. While I am waiting for it to arrive (2-3 weeks), I will start building my site in the mean time.

So there you have it. I am sure I am missing a few things so I would love to hear some feedback from those that think I am missing some important details. I am highly motivated to make this succeed, and I am already looking into the logistics of my other possible niche product. I am planning to take my profits each month and continue to scale up the business and start purchasing other styles of the product I am selling so that I have about 10 different options for my customers. Thank you again everyone for your advice and info!

 

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[DeletedUser2]

Site is back up.

so....

whats the plan?
you going to take it down? or are you going to piss in a mentors cornflakes?




Z

 

[Vigilante]

I have asked the question a dozen times about where the old school posters are. There's a wealth of gold threads in the archive.

Now.

I get it.

 

[JAJT]

Relationships are what matters the most. I don't know everything about PPC, but I have a friend that does. I don't know everything about SEO, but I have a friend that does.

To put this into perspective, a member of this forum that I have been communicating with took a look at what I put together, offered some advice, and not 5 hours later I had a sale.

I would sooner lay down my entire business concept and start from scratch than burn a bridge that can't be repaired.

There is a metaphor for what happened here. The goose that laid the golden egg. This user was impatient for results and ignorant of his actions (even after they were pointed out). He thought he harvested all this goose had to offer. Little did he know that with proper care he would have been rewarded gold into perpetuity.

 

[biophase]

Let's all order 5 and then return them.

LOL Bob, but really let's not do anything unethical to his site. We can all handle this the opposite way, instead of doing things to hinder his business let's work on increasing ours.

 

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[Ikke]

calculate your fees before hand. They are easily findable
Ebay: Standard selling fees
Amazone: Amazon.com Help: Fees and Pricing
Paypal: https://www.paypal.com/webapps/mpp/paypal-fees

 

[JAJT]

G_Alexander took the words out of my mouth.

Don't compete on price as your differentiator. Give a 100% (or even 110%) money-back guarantee. Give free expedited shipping. Give free after-sales support. Anything but a lower price. Entire industries have been destroyed because of price wars.

If you jump in at $10 less you might gain some quick traction but your competitor might see what's going on and decide to charge $10 less than you to maintain position. This can leap-frog down to unprofitability.

Hell - you may even get away with making your product a dollar or two more than him. This should keep you off his radar entirely for a good long while. It MAY even entice him to charge a few dollars more. Now you are both in the business of making money, rather than in the business of accepting "Just $1 less" to compete.

 

[Russ H]

Yes, get rid of the Ghillie Suits.

It's exceedingly unethical to steal someone else's business who has personally helped you. You may not realize that's what you're doing.

You've mentioned doing "exhaustive research" to figure out your niche products, several times, but you have not outlined that process. It takes weeks, sometimes months, to define the size of a market, and the demographics. It's not easy.

A suggestion: You could very easily walk thread readers through your process on selecting these niches, and how you figured out the size of the market. You don't need to tell them what your niche is, ever. Just your process.

If you DON'T do that at this point, it just looks like you stole a successful Fastlane member's research.

I'm not saying you did steal it. I'm saying it looks that way when you don't show us your process.

-Russ H.

 

[Amail]

You went into direct competition with a member who has laid out his entire operation for you to learn from. Who gives a shit if it isn't your "main offering".

You copied his shipping and returns page verbatim. Well done. Hope that didn't take too much time.

You have displayed one of the biggest betrayals of trust I've had the misfortune to see.

And now you come back trying to defend your actions. This is exactly what people like Biophase, Vigilante, DavidofMN, and a host of others (myself included) are afraid of when laying out our process. That someone like you will take that freely given information and act on it in bad faith.

 

[AllenCrawley]

1. No matter how you spin it, you are now a direct competitor. I'm sure Bio trusted that you would not sell items in the niche he basically owns. Blatant betrayal of trust here.

2. Your site may not look like his but you have indeed directly copy and pasted several of his pages into your own. Which is why Vig posted the Digital Millenium Copyright Act link.

3. You, and those in your defense, are missing the big picture. We all lose when people do what you have done. Valued members that share their wealth of knowledge and experience will stop doing so when people become copycat competitors. Vig has already removed his epic thread.

4. No one suggested you take down the site. We suggested you remove the products that are in direct competition with the one who mentored you.

As I stated before, I am in NO WAY attempting to take business from Bio. My site is centered around hunting blinds and camo netting, ghillie suits are only a side option for my customers. Bio has a far larger selection of ghillie suits than I do, and I in no way intend to even compete with him on that. The only reason I even have them is because one of my suppliers said that they offered a few and said I can list them if I would like. As you know, they go right in line with hunting and concealment just as camo netting does. Hunters use the stuff together all the time. So because Bio specializes in something I am not allowed to offer it as a side option now? My site looks nothing like his do, and I don't even advertise for them with my google adsense, backlinks, or on any ghillie forum what so ever....so I will never pull up when someone searches for a ghillie suit, it is just an option for my customers. Also, a few of the suits that I offer, he doesn't. Does that mean I shouldn't be able to offer them to my customers because it is still a ghillie suit? He knows his stuff and has been very helpful and inspiring, as has vigilante.

My purpose of being a part of this forum was to learn and try to make a living in a different manner than I currently am. I have two kids that rely on me, so making a living on my own terms is my goal. I posted my site up on here for everyone to see an review and give me some feed back, and I appreciate all of the feed back I have gotten so far. If I was trying to "steal" someone else's business intentionally, I certainly wouldn't have posted it up on here for you all to see and provide feed back on, or email it to Bio directly to critique for me. But to say that I have to take my site down because someone else sells the same product is BS in my opinion. Once again, my entire store is not ghillie suits. As a matter of fact, I haven't even sold 1 yet even though they are one of the cheapest items on there. Bio emailed me and said that he at one time sold hunting blinds, but stopped because they were too big, bulky, and pricey to ship.....funny thing is I have sold quite a few of them so far with little SEO work, so I must be doing something right. There is obviously a need in that market and I am filling it He knows everything there is about ghillie suits and I will never be able to nor want to compete with him for that....they are just an option for my customers. Some of you may not agree with this, and that is fair enough. Everyone has an opinion and is entitled to it. I have worked hard on this site even though it isn't much compared to most of you experienced vets, but to me it is a starting point and something I am proud of. I am not going to just trash the site.

 

[Amail]

Amail, I don't think you should ban him. I'd like for him to be able to respond to my response here on the forum.

Out of respect for your wishes, I've lifted the ban for now. Let's see how he responds.

 

[1step]

Out of respect for the amount of help he provided you maybe instead of offering the suits yourself you could have linked to his site and directed your customers there "if you need a guille suit check out our friends at ____ they provide the best suits" this is called a win win situation and would have likely paid you back much greater going into the future.

Of course based on your recent posts I still dont think you have "got it" you somehow still dont understand (or wont admit) what youve done wrong.

I have no doubt that even though you have "banned" yourself, that you will still see this post. It may not be to late to save face

 

[bflbob]

He added the ghillie suits back onto his site, so I guess I'm adding hunting blinds back on mine.

Let's all order 5 and then return them.

 

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[bclark85]

Been awhile since I have posted on here, so I figured I would provide some updates...

I finally got my site all built out. Took me a long time, but I had to learn how to do most of the coding myself to get it all right. I was going to hire someone to build my site for me, but to save money I decided to just go along and figure it out on my own. I am glad that I did because I actually learned a lot, and it is going to make things go way easier when I get started on my next site. Need less to say, I am pretty happy with it.

I also found a couple of other small items to import on the side to make some quick cash. They aren't generating huge returns, but I am making about $232.00 back on a $41.00 investment, so it is helping fund some of what I am putting into getting my main site and business going.

I also found an item that has a high demand and is pretty hard to find. I searched around for about a week, and couldn't find anyone offering a decent price. I ended up purchasing one of the items and shipping it over to a manufacturer overseas. They are making a mold for it and reproducing it for me for 82 cents each. I had to pay $600 to have to mold made, but these things are selling out fast when they do appear on the market for about $40.00 each. I ordered 500 of them, so I should be seeing over a 10K + profit when they are all sold. I plan on using this to fund some of the products for my main store and eliminate the drop shippers that I have in place right now. This will bring in way more profit for me once I can afford to buy it all in bulk and store some of it on my own.

I have been putting in a ton of work trying to pull this all together, but I am finally starting to see some results.

 

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[Amail]

I honestly doubt I'll update my thread with anything specific

And that's the difference between the value of your thread versus Biophase's. Which thread do you think better represents what people come to this forum for? Look at the "Likes" of various threads and see what the common denominator is. It's the people that let it hang out that make this place great, and that attitude needs to be nurtured lest this place devolve into WF.

 

[Eskil]

Very well said, Zen. Well said indeed. Speed+

dont steal or copy me.

Well, if there is one thing I think people SHOULD copy from you - it is your mindset, attitude, and relentless drive for success. Those are some of the qualities shared by many other members here as well, making this forum very unique. What the OP missed is that this wasn't about PRODUCT or COMPETITION. But about values and qualities we want to see in each other. One lesson learned from this thread perhaps is that when someone mentors you - your #1 goal should be to observe and mimic that person's methodologies, qualities and mindset for the business he or she is in. THEN apply that wisdom to your own business.

By helping each other here - we want others to mimic and copy our best qualities as entrepreneurs. Not mimic and copy our business models, regardless of niche or competition.

Hard work, persistence, creating value, taking action, and giving back. These are all qualities we have (or should have) in common. On top of that comes integrity, pride, and honesty. When one or more of those lack - people catch on, as we have seen here.

 

[andviv]

Somebody said it very well... ecosystems outlast (and beat) organisms.

 

[LightHouse]

Add Avery or whatever products to your site, I will make sure you get enough traffic to run his supplier out of stock. You will get retribution for being screwed in a sudo mentor-ship, and he will get a lesson in why you don't bite the hand that feeds you. This has nothing to do with biz competition.