Ebola in the USA... Anyone Concerned?

[loop101]

First, if you're gonna fear-monger, fear-monger correctly. We don't have 60 days. We have 47 days. As stated in the article, that "60 days" report was from October 1st.

"If the deadly outbreak cannot be reined in by Christmas then the UN says there is no plan in place and it could be overwhelmed."

Since the story's conflicting deadlines have an average of 58.5 more days, I think 60 is more correct than 47.

 

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[theag]

What could possibly go wrong!?

 

[loop101]

And now a second nurse in Texas tests positive for Ebola...

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...ealth-care-worker-ebola-second-case/17290575/

All this from one guy. Wait until 10-20 a week start coming here to be saved.

 

[Guest3722A]

(+ 11 people have definite exposure)

 

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[Writer]

Wow- You are actually excusing that the cdc itself patented ebola viruses without questioning the fact its now been unleashed on people in a relatively big way. Lets recap- the cdc likely owns the virus because it and its team created it

Morality check isle 7

It is now evident that you have no clue how patents work and what viruses are. You make the assumption that patent = money. Or copyright = money.
It is also evident that you don't know why patents and copyright exist.
Unleashed on people... Please. Movies ain't science.

 

[Unknown]

To your bunkers! I'll take over your businesses. I'll trade you each 24 gallons of water and 240 cans of soup in exchange for your 6 figure business. You'll be safe and sound in your bunker where Ebola can't get you!

 

[MJ DeMarco]

I have a low level of confidence in people not being idiots

I was recently in Belize which is pretty much a third world country. Our flight out of Belize was first 6 hours late, then ultimately cancelled. Everyone on the flight including me, stranded. In those 6 hours of sitting around in an airport with no resources, no water, and no information, (the airport is tiny and all the stores were closed because it was still considered "low season") I can tell you that Ebola is not the problem-- it's the chaos that will happen once the panic hits a coddled, self-entitled and sheltered American populous.

As I sat there and watched the chaos ensue over a delayed, then a cancelled flight, I thought to myself, OMG, this sucks, definitely an inconvenience, but the people around me, I'm assuming all Americans, were acting like spoiled little brats who just had their juice box taken away. It clearly became "Every man for himself". Compassion was gone. One guy was screaming at the top of his lungs yelling at the Belizean airport attendants, like it was their fault our flight was cancelled by United.

In situations where all control appears lost, all rational thinking also goes out the window. Yelling and cursing some young Belizean girl behind the ticket counter, who just happens to be working for United, WILL NOT CHANGE YOUR SITUATION and miraculously make some 737 appear on the tarmac. Then there was the angry fat man with the cankles: I really don't think that yelling at the man, yes, the one who lives in a hut with no clean water and no functional toilet really cares that your uncles' first cousin is a lawyer and will "make United pay". OMFG.

As I sat there and overheard people's tired tirade after tirade to airline employees, the conversation always could be summed up the same: "I, I, I; Me, Me, Me... I am special. I don't deserve to be stranded here. I need to work. I need to be at a doctor's appointment. I need to get home, my mother, daughter, mistress, dog, blah blah, is waiting for me at there, I need this. I need that..." as if these narratives changed anything in our situation.

Folks, this was not a life threatening situation, merely an inconvenience and frustration. And yet, as I looked at the panic and chaos around me from mostly, I assume Americans, I thought to myself about Ebola. At that moment, it was clear. If this thing don't get under control, WE ARE F*ckED.

 

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[biophase]

I'm not a doom and gloom type of person but...

"A 26-year-old nurse identified as the second Texas hospital worker to test positive for Ebola had traveled on a Frontier Airlines flight from Cleveland to Dallas the evening before she noted the first symptoms of the disease, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention said Wednesday."

"Public Health workers will begin interviewing the 132 passengers on Flight 1143 immediately."

This is how it starts to literally go viral, the one person who has it and travels by plane. Now it goes from one city to who knows how many. I just don't see how this can be stopped from spreading without a vaccine. The number of people that need to be interviewed is going to increase exponentially and how many will voluntarily quarantine themselves for 21 days and not lie about going to a store or to a park.

Sad thing is that this should have probably started with all health workers living in quarantine will treating the patient, but how many would that be and who would have done that?

 

[Mineralogic]

It is now evident that you have no clue how patents work and what viruses are. You make the assumption that patent = money. Or copyright = money.
It is also evident that you don't know why patents and copyright exist.
Unleashed on people... Please. Movies ain't science.

HOLD your horses cassanova. I know exactly what Patents are and why someone would Patent them. It has nothing to good will but protection over something unique and control/ownership.

Really no wonder people are so negative in the world nowadays. Is this a representation of the business elite in this country? Just because you CAN, you SHOULD? I am floored ANYONE would think its MORALLY or Rationally Perfectly FINE to PATENT VIRUSES!

 

[Mineralogic]

I was recently in Belize which is pretty much a third world country. Our flight out of Belize was first 6 hours late, then ultimately cancelled. Everyone on the flight including me, stranded. In those 6 hours of sitting around in an airport with no resources, no water, and no information, (the airport is tiny and all the stores were closed because it was still considered "low season") I can tell you that Ebola is not the problem-- it's the chaos that will happen once the panic hits a coddled, self-entitled and sheltered American populous.

As I sat there and watched the chaos ensue over a delayed, then a cancelled flight, I thought to myself, OMG, this sucks, definitely an inconvenience, but the people around me, I'm assuming all Americans, were acting like spoiled little brats who just had their juice box taken away. It clearly became "Every man for himself". Compassion was gone. One guy was screaming at the top of his lungs yelling at the Belizean airport attendants, like it was their fault our flight was cancelled by United.

In situations where all control appears lost, all rational thinking also goes out the window. Yelling and cursing some young Belizean girl behind the ticket counter, who just happens to be working for United, WILL NOT CHANGE YOUR SITUATION and miraculously make some 737 appear on the tarmac. Then there was the angry fat man with the cankles: I really don't think that yelling at the man, yes, the one who lives in a hut with no clean water and no functional toilet really cares that your uncles' first cousin is a lawyer and will "make United pay". OMFG.

As I sat there and overheard people's tired tirade after tirade to airline employees, the conversation always could be summed up the same: "I, I, I; Me, Me, Me... I am special. I don't deserve to be stranded here. I need to work. I need to be at a doctor's appointment. I need to get home, my mother, daughter, mistress, dog, blah blah, is waiting for me at there, I need this. I need that..." as if these narratives changed anything in our situation.

Folks, this was not a life threatening situation, merely an inconvenience and frustration. And yet, as I looked at the panic and chaos around me from mostly, I assume Americans, I thought to myself about Ebola. At that moment, it was clear. If this thing don't get under control, WE ARE F*ckED.

Stock market is in free fall now, no doubt some of it due to EBOLA fears. BEN BERNANKE is smiling

 

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[ChickenHawk]

IMO, as Americans, we've become complacent. Some would say arrogant. There's a sense of "it could never happen here." But let's look at this...

Right now in Dallas, there's a desperate call out for nurses. About 70 (let that number sink in...) health care workers cared for Duncan. Of those, two have already gotten Ebola. Let's take the other 68. Are they still working? If so, who are they potentially infecting? If not, who's taking their place? Basically, ONE dude who lied to obtain "free" medical care has caused mass chaos in just one major U.S. city. Now, that city is short of nurses. The hospital that treated him is basically closed to non-Ebola cases. Dallas has been forced to contact and monitor hundreds of people. Soon, they'll be contacting and monitoring hundreds more, including those who flew with the second infected nurse a couple days ago.

Now, imagine if "only" ten Duncans get through. Or imagine if someone infected by Duncan or a nurse is walking around sick right now, thinking they just have the flu. Ebola spreads exponentially. One person infects two people and so on.

I don't think it's fear-mongering to suggest you stock some food and supplies just in case.

 

[AllenCrawley]

I'm not a doom and gloom type of person but...

"A 26-year-old nurse identified as the second Texas hospital worker to test positive for Ebola had traveled on a Frontier Airlines flight from Cleveland to Dallas the evening before she noted the first symptoms of the disease, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention said Wednesday."

"Public Health workers will begin interviewing the 132 passengers on Flight 1143 immediately."

This is how it starts to literally go viral, the one person who has it and travels by plane. Now it goes from one city to who knows how many. I just don't see how this can be stopped from spreading without a vaccine. The number of people that need to be interviewed is going to increase exponentially and how many will voluntarily quarantine themselves for 21 days and not lie about going to a store or to a park.

Sad thing is that this should have probably started with all health workers living in quarantine will treating the patient, but how many would that be and who would have done that?

IMO, as Americans, we've become complacent. Some would say arrogant. There's a sense of "it could never happen here." But let's look at this...

Right now in Dallas, there's a desperate call out for nurses. About 70 (let that number sink in...) health care workers cared for Duncan. Of those, two have already gotten Ebola. Let's take the other 68. Are they still working? If so, who are they potentially infecting? If not, who's taking their place? Basically, ONE dude who lied to obtain "free" medical care has caused mass chaos in just one major U.S. city. Now, that city is short of nurses. The hospital that treated him is basically closed to non-Ebola cases. Dallas has been forced to contact and monitor hundreds of people. Soon, they'll be contacting and monitoring hundreds more, including those who flew with the second infected nurse a couple days ago.

Now, imagine if "only" ten Duncans get through. Or imagine if someone infected by Duncan or a nurse is walking around sick right now, thinking they just have the flu. Ebola spreads exponentially. One person infects two people and so on.

I don't think it's fear-mongering to suggest you stock some food and supplies just in case.

And yet we'll continue to have people posting cute memes, clever comments and fear mongering accusations.

I have never been concerned with any other virus threats of the past but this one certainly gives me pause.

 

[Tommy92l]

My pops is an infectious disease doc. It's only a matter of time before he treats this. He told me that I can't stay at his house if he's treating it. Hopefully it keeps mutating and eventually becomes less lethal.

 

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[MJ DeMarco]

I have never been concerned with any other virus threats of the past but this one certainly gives me pause.

And that's because the government's narrative of "Oh, it only spreads through bodily fluids" is clearly fiction. I highly doubt the two nurses who were caring for Duncan where getting naked with him or rolling around in his sweat drenched linens. And now we can add financial chaos to the mix.

 

[Unknown]

Hopefully it keeps mutating and eventually becomes less lethal.

Mutations generally make a virus stronger. Mutations that don't make a virus stronger die off while the main virus continues to thrive. We don't want to see any mutations that are capable of surviving.

 

[Tommy92l]

Mutations generally make a virus stronger. Mutations that don't make a virus stronger die off while the main virus continues to thrive. We don't want to see any mutations that are capable of surviving.

What about the swine flu? Didn't that die off from mutations? I know nothing about this stuff.

 

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[Bananas]

I was recently in Belize which is pretty much a third world country. Our flight out of Belize was first 6 hours late, then ultimately cancelled. Everyone on the flight including me, stranded. In those 6 hours of sitting around in an airport with no resources, no water, and no information, (the airport is tiny and all the stores were closed because it was still considered "low season") I can tell you that Ebola is not the problem-- it's the chaos that will happen once the panic hits a coddled, self-entitled and sheltered American populous.

As I sat there and watched the chaos ensue over a delayed, then a cancelled flight, I thought to myself, OMG, this sucks, definitely an inconvenience, but the people around me, I'm assuming all Americans, were acting like spoiled little brats who just had their juice box taken away. It clearly became "Every man for himself". Compassion was gone. One guy was screaming at the top of his lungs yelling at the Belizean airport attendants, like it was their fault our flight was cancelled by United.

In situations where all control appears lost, all rational thinking also goes out the window. Yelling and cursing some young Belizean girl behind the ticket counter, who just happens to be working for United, WILL NOT CHANGE YOUR SITUATION and miraculously make some 737 appear on the tarmac. Then there was the angry fat man with the cankles: I really don't think that yelling at the man, yes, the one who lives in a hut with no clean water and no functional toilet really cares that your uncles' first cousin is a lawyer and will "make United pay". OMFG.

As I sat there and overheard people's tired tirade after tirade to airline employees, the conversation always could be summed up the same: "I, I, I; Me, Me, Me... I am special. I don't deserve to be stranded here. I need to work. I need to be at a doctor's appointment. I need to get home, my mother, daughter, mistress, dog, blah blah, is waiting for me at there, I need this. I need that..." as if these narratives changed anything in our situation.

Folks, this was not a life threatening situation, merely an inconvenience and frustration. And yet, as I looked at the panic and chaos around me from mostly, I assume Americans, I thought to myself about Ebola. At that moment, it was clear. If this thing don't get under control, WE ARE F*ckED.

Thank you for sharing that, it is an example of what I was talking about.

I believe I would have been scared in your place. Not because United cancelled the flight or because there was a lack of water and food, which are temporary, but because of the ridiculous idiots who devolve into uncivilized behavior. Any one of them can cause a large scale fight or riot to break out. The last place you want to be is in the center of a riot, guilty or not.

I just read the news today about the second healthcare worker in Dallas who has tested positive. So we are at Patient Two. (Duncan is Zero, Pham is One.) And what had she done? She flew to frigging Ohio. I thought these people were under observation, but obviously not because her travel wasn't restricted. STEP ONE should have been to restrict travel. But no one bothered, because they are idiots.

And Patient Two herself. Another idiot. Why travel under those conditions? Only an uncaring, irresponsible idiot would do such a thing. Further, I've read she is being transferred to Georgia - giving this infection a chance to spread faster and further. Texas, Ohio, Georgia. Exposed.

I withdraw my statement last night about how I felt paranoid (and a little embarrassed) that I bought masks, gloves, and additional water. The fact that Patient Two traveled between TX and OH twice, and was allowed to do so, then did test positive, simply justifies my thinking.

Right now I only know two things:

I don't want to be the at the grocery store when everyone decides to panic simultaneously and rushes out to stock up and empties the shelves.

I don't want to be there after that happens either, to see the empty shelves and have nothing to buy.

Too bad for myself and my husband that I didn't earn at a faster pace, we want a mountain home but no mortgage on it. Had I gotten us one, we could simply vacation there and ride this out. I earn regardless of my personal location so we'd be just fine.

 

[Unknown]

What about the swine flu? Didn't that die off from mutations? I know nothing about this stuff.

If you mean H1N1 it's still around. We just have a vaccine for it. Your regular flu shot has the H1N1 vaccine in it as well.

 

[Unknown]

I don't think it's fear-mongering to suggest you stock some food and supplies just in case.

Firstly I'd like to point out that I'm just joking around with you guys. I have no idea if this will turn serious, so I'll wait until I know for sure.

Now for the main reason I'm replying to this...which is completely off topic (mostly). You clearly have strong feelings about this. You write for a living. You could quite easily turn the scenarios you see in your head into a great novel about an epidemic. Inaction amongst the government. Lies in the media. All leading to the inevitable spread of the disease. I'd read it :-D

 

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[ChickenHawk]

And Patient Two herself. Another idiot. Why travel under those conditions? Only an uncaring, irresponsible idiot would do such a thing.

I agree wholeheartedly with 99% of your post except for the above statement, because the nurses were following all the protocols, even related to travel. IMO, it's not their fault. It's the fault of those who misled them.

They CDC told the nurses they were low-to-zero risk. (Seriously WTF???) The CDC told the nurses they had nothing to worry about, because they'd been wearing protective gear. The CDC told them that even in the astronomical chance they DID get Ebola, they couldn't spread it if they weren't showing symptoms. The CDC told them to go about their business and take their temperature merely as a precaution.

Given the fact they'd followed all the CDC guidelines for protecting themselves, why WOULD they quarantine themselves? Look at the responses here on this thread. How many people here on this very thread would have mocked the nurses for staying home? (I can hear it now. "Stupid 'fear-mongering' nurses holding up in their apartments like preppers. How stooooopid...")

I think we're right to be angry. We SHOULD be angry. But I don't think we should be angry at the nurses. Unlike you and me, they obviously had a lot more confidence in our government officials. And they're young, maybe too young to be cynical and jaded like us Gen Xers. Now, they, along with their friends, relatives, pets, and neighbors, are paying the price.

It's makes me mad too, but mostly on their behalf, and on behalf of those impacted by this.

 

[Bananas]

I agree wholeheartedly with 99% of your post except for the above statement, because the nurses were following all the protocols, even related to travel. IMO, it's not their fault. It's the fault of those who misled them.

They CDC told the nurses they were low-to-zero risk. (Seriously WTF???) The CDC told the nurses they had nothing to worry about, because they'd been wearing protective gear. The CDC told them that even in the astronomical chance they DID get Ebola, they couldn't spread it if they weren't showing symptoms. The CDC told them to go about their business and take their temperature merely as a precaution.

Given the fact they'd followed all the CDC guidelines for protecting themselves, why WOULD they quarantine themselves? Look at the responses here on this thread. How many people here on this very thread would have mocked the nurses for staying home? (I can hear it now. "Stupid 'fear-mongering' nurses holding up in their apartments like preppers. How stooooopid...")

I think we're right to be angry. We SHOULD be angry. But I don't think we should be angry at the nurses. Unlike you and me, they obviously had a lot more confidence in our government officials. And they're young, maybe too young to be cynical and jaded like us Gen Xers. Now, they, along with their friends, relatives, pets, and neighbors, are paying the price.

It's makes me mad too, but mostly on their behalf, and on behalf of those impacted by this.

The reason I'm angry with her is because she flew on October 13th.

That's after Patient One was diagnosed so she had to know she was at risk.

At that point, regardless of what the CDC or any staff at the hospital said...she knew she was at risk. She knew if one staff member got it, all the staff were at risk.

Even more responsible than her are the officials in charge, who once Pham tested positive should have restricted everyone else who had contact with Duncan. And instead of doing so they blamed Pham publicly.

 

[Gale4rc]

@ChickenHawk I take back that gif I posted a while ago. You're right and i'm a little taken back.

 

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[Writer]

HOLD your horses cassanova. I know exactly what Patents are and why someone would Patent them. It has nothing to good will but protection over something unique and control/ownership.

Really no wonder people are so negative in the world nowadays. Is this a representation of the business elite in this country? Just because you CAN, you SHOULD? I am floored ANYONE would think its MORALLY or Rationally Perfectly FINE to PATENT VIRUSES!

1) It’s Casanova.
2) Patents ARE a matter of national interest, they are not just to “gain and maintain control” of something.
3) Patents work as a protection for both the inventor and the public. Again, I agree that too often this does not applies, but that’s a fault in the application of our legal system.
4) Again, you see virus and patent in the same sentence, and you freak out. You forget that for NO reason whatsoever a legal system should grant exceptions. Even matters of emergency or national security fall under laws and regulations that have to be respected. The moment you allow, accept and approve that someone can go around the law, the whole system collapses.
5) If you understand 4), which is one of the fundamentals of public administration, you understand that if a patent is granted during a state of emergency the patent has to be respected. If there is an outbreak of Ebola and the virus is patented, the law has to respect the patent. Therefore, if company XYZ patents the Ebola virus, other companies and CDC might not start working on a vaccine, EVEN if the world is dying because of the outbreak. Now, this is mostly hypothetical as the people would probably kill the CEO of such evil company, but that’s how the law works. Yet, by 4), you can’t make exception and steal the patent.
6) If you disagree with 5), then next time do not complain that “people with good lawyers or VIPs are treated differently and Bush/Clinton/Bush2/Obama didn’t do what was appropriate”.

 

[Mbc]

Mutations generally make a virus stronger. Mutations that don't make a virus stronger die off while the main virus continues to thrive. We don't want to see any mutations that are capable of surviving.

It really depends. If the virus becomes less lethal it will spread more (longer time for a person to spread the virus) and outcompete a more lethal virus. Mutation is not a deliberate act. And lethality is not the same as robustness. You might be thinking of bacteria that mutate and become harder to kill, that's because we are putting survival pressure (antibiotics, disinfectants) that favors the more robust bacteria.

 

[Gsuz]

Read an interesting comment on reddit:

"In many ways, our system is ideally setup for something like Ebola or some other infectious disease to spread like wildfire. The high cost of healthcare and the lack of universal insurance mean that many people will avoid seeking care, where they might be isolated. At the same time, many, many people don't get sick days and are living paycheck to paycheck so they'll keep working as long as possible - spreading the disease as they do so. Then, when they are finally in such dire shape that they MUST go to a hospital, they will take public transportation (since the ambulance ride will break them.) Once they arrive, we'll park them for hours in a room full of people who already have compromised immune systems. Then there's a pretty decent chance that, since the hospitals lose money on the emergency rooms and want people out of there, we'll just give them a few aspirin and put them right back on the bus that brought them in.

I mean, you couldn't do much worse if you planned it that way in your "How to maximize infectious disease transmission in an advanced society" 101 course.

A lot of people in this country will be thinking "Well, that's only the poor people". Leaving aside the moral bankruptcy implicit in that argument, it's important to note that the people getting sick in this system are the ones preparing your food, cleaning your house or office, stocking your groceries, cutting your hair, caring for your kids, driving your bus, etc. This is not a "poor person" problem. It's YOUR problem. Even if you are morally handicapped."

Source

 

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[biophase]

At that point, regardless of what the CDC or any staff at the hospital said...she knew she was at risk. She knew if one staff member got it, all the staff were at risk.

CDC: U.S. health worker with Ebola should not have flown on commercial jet (http://www.cnn.com/2014/10/15/health/texas-ebola-outbreak/index.html?hpt=hp_t1). Interesting that the CDC says this, but is it part of their written protocol?

To me, it's common sense. If I'm treating someone with Ebola. I'm not going out or hanging our with friends until at least 21 days later, let alone flying places. If I have roommates, I'm telling them to live someone else.

 

[Unknown]

The latest news says she had a fever while on the airplane. Now people might have a reason to worry.

 

[Bananas]

CDC: U.S. health worker with Ebola should not have flown on commercial jet (http://www.cnn.com/2014/10/15/health/texas-ebola-outbreak/index.html?hpt=hp_t1). Interesting that the CDC says this, but is it part of their written protocol?

To me, it's common sense. If I'm treating someone with Ebola. I'm not going out or hanging our with friends until at least 21 days later, let alone flying places. If I have roommates, I'm telling them to live someone else.

Oh God, I clicked your link, it says: The worker had a temperature of 99.5 Fahrenheit (37.5 Celsius) before she boarded her flight, he added.

So there is no doubt, she knew and boarded anyway and there is no doubt all of the people on that plane were exposed.

 

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[MJ DeMarco]

So there is no doubt, she knew and boarded anyway and there is no doubt all of the people on that plane were exposed.

But now the new CDC storyline is...

Centers for Disease Control and Prevention Director Tom Frieden said it’s unlikely the nurse spread the virus to others on the flight since the most contagious period for Ebola is when patients are at their sickest.

Frieden said the risk for those on the flight is “extremely low,” but health officials will start interviewing the 132 passengers on the flight, Frontier Airlines Flight 1143, that Vinson took on her return trip from Cleveland on Monday.

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/eb...ore-boarding-flight-2014-10-15?dist=countdown

And once passengers come down with it, what will be the new story?? The new narrative? The new excuse and justification?

It's pathetic that no matter what the story, the CDC has an answer to continue their plodding narrative that "Nothing to see here folks, move along..."

 

[Guest3722A]

Since the cdc owns the patent, can law suits be brought against them?