Ebola in the USA... Anyone Concerned?

[Jakeeck]

There's no reason to speculate such terrible things when there's only been 1 confirmed case.. and a good chunk of time has passed where we would have likely seen someone else get the disease if this were going to be an epidemic.

 

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[DeletedUser394]

Why are Americans generally more 'survivalist'/prepper minded than any other group of people in the world.. especially considering America is one of the least likely places where something like ebola can spread effectively. Or war; or anything really. Who's going to invade the USA? Nobody, yet people build bunkers and do all kinds of weird things.

Skirting the political lines, 95% of the world's countries are far more corrupt and inept, yet so many Americans treat their own government as evil and out to get them. Y'all would prefer Mugabe perhaps? Distrust, mistrust, no trust. Be afraid of everything and everyone, because you better believe they're out to get you guys lol. Militias, bunkers, camo. Them zombies be comin'.

Having a small amount of food and supplies in the event of a power outage or natural disaster or the like is one thing. Preparing for Armageddon is something else entirely...

 

[SYK]

Anyway, maybe about a month later I saw their juice bottles being sold in the gas station that was at the end of the block......

How can the government standby and let juice companies rampantly get distribution deals with local retailers?! No one is safe!

 

[theag]

How can the government standby and let juice companies rampantly get distribution deals with local retailers?! No one is safe!

I think food products arent the right place for your sarcasm. I wouldnt want to drink some shitty juice a few guys mixed themselves in their appartment.

 

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[loop101]

Why are Americans generally more 'survivalist'/prepper minded than any other group of people in the world.

Because the American economic policy of printing money is unsustainable, and should eventually result in a collapse of the US dollar and/or economy. Last year when EBT cards stopped working for 1 day, people threatened to riot. If America goes through a depression, like Russia did in the 90s, things could get quite ugly. The US government might keep the plates spinning for another 50 years, or 5 days, there is no way to tell. In the 2008 panic, bankers told politicians that they needed trillions immediately, or the economy would completely crash, and they got their money. Maybe next time they wont.

 

[SYK]

I think food products arent the right place for your sarcasm. I wouldnt want to drink some shitty juice a few guys mixed themselves in their appartment.

Wasn't a comment on food regulation. Rather the association with 9/11.

 

[ChickenHawk]

Don't trust anything you hear on TV or from theUS goverment or read in the newspapers.

Yup, and here's a little insight on government announcements:
I can tell you firsthand, government agencies "embargo" certain announcements. Embargo is a fancy way of saying, "We're going to announce this, but not yet." Maybe they want to get their story straight. Maybe some of the details are TBD. Maybe the news is considered a national security issue. Maybe there are financial/stock market ramifications. There are a lot of reasons why news is withheld until a certain point. Also, in this case, there'd be a lot of good reasons to delay (or avoid if at all possible) any announcement whatsoever.

When official news is embargoed, only a select number of people have access to it, and even then, not every individual has access to all the information. For example, right now, there may be a draft of a news release or announcement working its way up and down the chain. This announcement might have a lot of blanks until the very last minute. When the news is bad, look for an announcement late on a Friday afternoon. This is considered the best time to release bad news, because journalists and their audiences are paying less attention. (EDIT: And because the U.S. stock market is closed.)

Now, Let's Consider the Possibility of Related Cases...
To me, it seems highly improbable that no further infections have occurred. For starters, Duncan probably had welcome-to-America sex with his "fiancee." If she isn't infected, it would be a miracle. On his first visit to the emergency room, he sweated and coughed, potentially infecting his fellow patients and health care professionals. After returning home, he spewed bodily fluids for at least two days before actually admitting he had contact with an Ebola-patient. While spewing, he slept on all three beds in their apartment. He barfed in the parking lot (and we saw firsthand how that barf was cleaned up.) He rode in an ambulance which remained in service for at least two days afterwards. Then, right after HIS ambulance ride, a homeless guy rode in the same ambulance, and later disappeared for a few days, causing the government to go looking for him. Then, there was the parade of people going in and out of that apartment while it was still a biohazard. They did this without protection, because the nice folks at the CDC said it was safe enough.

Fast forward. A couple days later, his family is taken to a private home in a gated community, not only for their "comfort", but also because they weren't exactly diligent about that ol' quarantine thing. Health issues aside, this was a public relations train wreck, which required a quick clamping down and major damage control. Regardless, you can be darned sure they didn't want the media hanging around, asking inconvenient questions about their health.

Like I said earlier, it reads like the script of a bad disaster movie. "Nothing to see here, people..."

 

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[Gale4rc]

 

[ChickenHawk]

So what's your theory? (Not being snarky. It's a serious question.) Do you think that Duncan didn't infect anyone? All that bodily fluid flying around, and no one got sick from it? Even if all he had was the flu, this seems unlikely to me.

Here's my theory: Others have been infected and potentially diagnosed, but for whatever reason (national security, to prevent a panic, to give the government more time to offer guidance, to set up treatment facilities, to avoid an economic/stock market crash, to conduct additional research, to allocate resources...) this news is not being released just yet. Not all reasons have to be sinister "tin-foil hat" reasons.

Maybe they don't want to yell, "Fire!" in a crowded movie theatre because they fear the ensuing panic will kill more people than the actual fire, which they're working feverishly to contain.

 

[Guest3722A]

How can the government standby and let juice companies rampantly get distribution deals with local retailers?! No one is safe!

Well, I live by a place some of us affectionately refer to as "Dearbornistan". And after 9/11, the Feds did a lot of investigation out here, and some restaurant owners were shaken out along with other business owners as taking part in terrorist financing. Heck, one place actually scaled quite nicely throughout several cities, and was even one of my favorite places to go, but it was determined that the owner was a contributor (heavy) and he skipped town.

Now in reference to the Gov't out here, there's also a little spot just up the street from Dearbornistan that we also affectionately like to refer to as "Detwat". And in Detwat, 1 murder a day was about the average for a while! Give or take. Sometimes one, sometimes ten, sometimes 3 or 4 and I think its something like 70% or higher that go unresolved. And, its a fun little place where voter turnout is over 100%! And city mayors gent sent to prison for decades! Heck This mayor was even told by the country's current leader in chief that they should do business sometime in the future!!

Me and a buddy were just cruising through there a week ago getting some authentic mexican grub from a town called Mexican village. And its scattered throughout several miles of crumbling, spray-painted buildings, some gang claimed, some idiot rich kid claimed (that wasn't a reference Ryan)(I'm being serious) . But the food was to die for! lol And the people are all heart out there and they care about their little businesses. They've got their families, and their friends, and they're just people, being.

You've got your goods and you got your bads, and after a while, you get a feel for what's right and what's potentially criminal. But when you've got hundreds of thousands of unused square footage that just sits for years and still builds up tax bills, the tempt to rent space to a suspicious unknown (or maybe known) (I don't know) gets taken.

These photos were taken a couple weeks ago. Obviously, the good is not winning, and the gov't (of past) doesn't/didn't have a grip. On a side note, believe it or not, things are improving due to the former owner of Gateway computers getting voted in - and he's running the STATE like a business and there are obvious improvements, and we don't hear about the daily murders much like we used to. Nuff said.

 

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[DeletedUser394]

A guy on airline flight sneezed, then joked about either being from Africa, or having Ebola, so this was the response (from Reddit):

'I ain't from Africa.' lmao that one liner was pretty funny.

 

[loop101]

They say the virus is winning...

"The number of Ebola cases in West Africa has been doubling about every three weeks. There is little evidence so far that the epidemic is losing momentum."

“The virus is moving on virus time; we’re moving on bureaucracy or program time,” said Michael Osterholm, director of the Center for Infectious Disease Research and Policy at the University of Minnesota. “The virus is actually picking up the pace. Even as we add resources, we get farther behind.”

http://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...ad9e76-4fb2-11e4-8c24-487e92bc997b_story.html

 

[ChickenHawk]

From the World Health Organization: What We Know About Transmission of the Ebola Virus Among Humans
http://www.who.int/mediacentre/news/ebola/06-october-2014/en/

"The Ebola virus can also be transmitted indirectly, by contact with previously contaminated surfaces and objects. The risk of transmission from these surfaces is low and can be reduced even further by appropriate cleaning and disinfection procedures." They also say that it's theoretically possible, but unlikely, that it could be spread by coughing or sneezing.

This Isn't Like AIDS: With AIDS, if you refrain from certain behaviors, the odds of getting AIDS are pretty much zero. You can treat an AIDS patient, cuddle with an AIDS patient, lick the sweat off an AIDS patient, and not get the virus. Ebola is a very different animal.

 

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[ChickenHawk]

Self explanatory: https://twitter.com/WhiteHouse/status/517106666915909633View attachment 8369 So hope this clears up all the fear and PANIC.
So I will just leave this here (straight from the USA government).

And F*ck you all who are spreading miss information

F*ck you, dipshit. The link and information I provided was from the World Health Organization. No matter how you feel about it, this was a thought-provoking debate...until..someone like you tries to shut down discourse with profanity-laden attacks. So right back atcha, asswipe.

 

[redshep]

...No matter how you feel about it, this was a thought-provoking debate...until someone like you tries to shut down discourse with profanity-laden attacks...

I disagree with your position, but agree with your point.

 

[splok]

So hope this clears up all the fear and PANIC.

What could possibly go wrong!?

 

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[ChickenHawk]

Seriously? Did i touch your ego?

No ego. Merely an effort (obviously a useless effort given your limited social skills, but hey, a girl can try...) to discourage your practice of attacking those who don't agree with you.

For the record, I've enjoyed most of these posts, even those that express a different opinion than mine. What I don't enjoy is being told to F*ck off because my views are different than yours. If you had posted your "nothing to worry about" post without your last sentence, I'd have enjoyed yours too. You should've quit while you were ahead, _____.

*Edit: Removed the word dipshit, because "dipshit" is implied without me having to spell it out.

 

[MJ DeMarco]

Self explanatory: https://twitter.com/WhiteHouse/status/517106666915909633View attachment 8369 So hope this clears up all the fear and PANIC.
So I will just leave this here (straight from the USA government).

And F*ck you all who are spreading miss information

If you plan on being here longer than 12 minutes you might want to watch your mouth.

 

[loop101]

People are beginning to suspect that you can get Ebola from an infected fruit bat pooping on you, actually it's been a theory for quite a while. If true, it would be hard to stamp out.

"One mystery surrounding these viruses is where they live between outbreaks, when they aren't infecting humans, author and Ebola expert David Quammen told National Geographic. For example, health officials know Ebola likely goes dormant in an animal, called its "reservoir host," but they have yet to identify exactly which species. At least one of the suspects is the fruit bat, which is believed to host several other viruses (including Marburg and SARS) without getting sick."

https://www.yahoo.com/health/first-ebola-now-marburg-how-do-we-stop-future-99548432852.html


From 1999:
https://web.stanford.edu/group/virus/filo/bats.html

 

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[loop101]

What is to stop a terrorist from going to Africa, contracting Ebola, then coming to New York, and blowing snot all over people in the subway?

I wonder how many people they could infect before they died.

 

[eqttrdr]

Distrust, mistrust, no trust. Be afraid of everything and everyone, because you better believe they're out to get you guys lol. Militias, bunkers, camo. Them zombies be comin'

the USA was founded on the exact principles of distrust of goverment... THAT's why....

 

[loop101]

I had not seen this before. An Ebola patient had to be violently recaptured after escaping in to a marketplace:

The guy on the plane that coughed all during the flight told the other passengers, "I have Ebola, you all are screwed."

http://edition.cnn.com/2014/10/09/travel/dominican-ebola-plane-scare/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

 

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[InMotion]

"In 2010, the Office of Inspector General for the Department of Health and Human Services said that bad hospital care contributed to the deaths of 180,000 patients in Medicare alone in a given year."

"Journal of Patient Safety that says the numbers may be much higher — between 210,000 and 440,000 patients each year who go to the hospital for care suffer some type of preventable harm that contributes to their death."

http://www.npr.org/blogs/health/201...ny-die-from-medical-mistakes-in-u-s-hospitals

Be concerned about going to a U.S. hospital for the time being.

 

[smarty]

my favorite meme kid hits again

 

[ChickenHawk]

my favorite meme kid hits again

View attachment 8396

Make that TWO people...
Health care worker at Presbyterian Hospital in Dallas tests positive for Ebola
http:/www.cnn.com/2014/10/12/health/ebola/index.html

The nurse, who wore full HazMat grear, had contact with Duncan during his second visit. In comparison, have you ever heard of a health care worker contracting AIDS from a patient? Then, there was the nurse in Spain. She also wore full HazMat gear and still contracted Ebola. The last I read, she's not expected to live. Her husband is under observation, along with several others. Her dog was killed to avoid the potential danger of "Fido" spreading the virus. (Apparently, animals can spread the virus without being sick themselves.) Now in Spain, many nurses are refusing to treat Ebola patients, and it's easy to see why.

In both of these cases, there's speculation that the nurses broke protocol with their HazMat suits. Even if they did, that's still troubling. Contagion aside, one of the things I also find troubling is that a mere handful of cases can cause major disruptions in whatever city. Apparently, Duncan's health care required the care of over 50 people, cost several hundred thousand dollars, and shut down a big portion of the hospital. Plus, decontaminating Duncan's apartment cost over 60K. All that effort, and now, there's talk of suing the hospital because his care "wasn't good enough." That can't be good for the morale of the nurses who put their lives on the line to treat him.

When you consider all the ramifications, it wouldn't take many of these cases to bankrupt and/or cause major disruptions in our system. If you lived in Dallas, and your kid had to get stitches, how would you feel about taking him to that emergency room? Or ANY Dallas emergency room for that matter? If you were a nurse, how would you feel about treating the next fevered vomiting guy?

BTW, the CDC is now saying you can get Ebola through "close contact". They define close contact as being within three feet of an Ebola victim for an extended period of time. You don't have to panic to find some of this troubling.

(EDIT/CORRECTION: The way it sounds, the nurse wasn't wearing the spacesuit type of HazMat gear, but rather a mask, gown, gloves and shield, per CDC guidelines. In all the instances above, I probably should've said "full protective" gear, not "full hazmat" gear.)

***EDIT: Changed the story link, above, after the original Dallas story became a dead link.

 

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[Guest3722A]

So my question now is, if there's this ZMAPP stuff , why wasn't it used on Thomas Eric Duncan in TX? As the story reads, the fda allowed its use on Dr. Kent Brantly, and he survived. Whereas Duncan's doctors thought it could worsen his condition.

"Duncan, who is currently at the Presbyterian Hospital in Dallas, is not being given the experimental drug ZMapp because doctors fear it may actually worsen his already grave condition." ABC news.

Now I'm not buying the racist spin, some media outlets are trying to build on. The question still remains though as there was plenty of time to get this ZMAPP to Mr. Duncan.

 

[ChickenHawk]

So my question now is, if there's this ZMAPP stuff , why wasn't it used on Thomas Eric Duncan in TX?

Duncan's condition aside, there is no more.
http://online.wsj.com/articles/make...-drug-says-its-supply-is-exhausted-1407799150
"The maker of the experimental Ebola drug that was given to two infected Americans said Monday that its supply has been exhausted after the company provided doses to a West African nation...The company has said it is working with U.S. government agencies to increase production of ZMapp, which was in limited supply because the company was focused on animal testing and hadn't planned to start human testing until next year."

A question: Given the drug's VERY limited supply, do you think he should have gotten it, even if some were left? Let's say only five doses remained. Should Duncan get one of them? Call me harsh, but I don't think so. He lied on his paperwork to get here, knowing full well he'd been directly exposed to an infectious disease. Then, on his first trip to the E.R., he didn't mention that he'd handled a dying Ebola patient. As a result, others will get sick. Shouldn't the drug be saved for health care professionals he knowingly exposed? Or children who might have been infected by his actions? If you could only save five people, would you save Duncan? And what if you do? What message does that send to other Liberians who want a "free" cure in the United States? This is a very slippery slope.

See, I think people like to think of the U.S. as having unlimited resources. But sometimes, reality says otherwise. In related news, there's a new, suspected Ebola case in Mass. The medical center had to be evacuated before letting the patient in. And of course, the evacuation was prudent. Think if they didn't, and the person DID have Ebola. This goes to my original point though, that given the nature of the virus, even a few cases can cause chaos.
http://boston.cbslocal.com/2014/10/12/man-with-ebola-like-symptoms-isolated-at-braintree-hospital/

(Obviously, I've been paying way too much attention to this story, probably because I used to work in govt. P.R., and it's interesting to see this from the outside.)

 

[smarty]

The nurse, who wore full HazMat grear, had contact with Duncan during his second visit. In comparison, have you ever heard of a health care worker contracting AIDS from a patient? Then, there was the nurse in Spain. She also wore full HazMat gear and still contracted Ebola. The last I read, she's not expected to live. Her husband is under observation, along with several others. Her dog was killed to avoid the potential danger of "Fido" spreading the virus. (Apparently, animals can spread the virus without being sick themselves.) Now in Spain, many nurses are refusing to treat Ebola patients, and it's easy to see why.

In both of these cases, there's speculation that the nurses broke protocol with their HazMat suits. Even if they did, that's still troubling. Contagion aside, one of the things I also find troubling is that a mere handful of cases can cause major disruptions in whatever city. Apparently, Duncan's health care required the care of over 50 people, cost several hundred thousand dollars, and shut down a big portion of the hospital. Plus, decontaminating Duncan's apartment cost over 60K. All that effort, and now, there's talk of suing the hospital because his care "wasn't good enough." That can't be good for the morale of the nurses who put their lives on the line to treat him.

When you consider all the ramifications, it wouldn't take many of these cases to bankrupt and/or cause major disruptions in our system. If you lived in Dallas, and your kid had to get stitches, how would you feel about taking him to that emergency room? Or ANY Dallas emergency room for that matter? If you were a nurse, how would you feel about treating the next fevered vomiting guy?

BTW, the CDC is now saying you can get Ebola through "close contact". They define close contact as being within three feet of an Ebola victim for an extended period of time. You don't have to panic to find some of this troubling.

Too much news, too many speculations, very few facts. Most of all this noise goes in function of pharmaceutical companies making billions. Haven't you noticed that every 1-2 years the world is completely shaken from the roots by a new never-heard-before virus?

In the last 6-7 years:
-Mad Cow
-Chicken Flu
-SARS
-H1N1
-etc etc.
-Ebola

Where are all of them now? I guess if it isn't in the news it isn't happening!
While it's okay to be aware, you can't possibly know if the person sitting next to you right this moment has Ebola or not.
One less thing to worry about.

"The maker of the experimental Ebola drug that was given to two infected Americans said Monday that its supply has been exhausted after the company provided doses to a West African nation...

..they didn't even keep 1 dose? I find this excuse too funny...

 

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[ChickenHawk]

if it isn't in the news it isn't happening!

This isn't true. Lots of things happen that aren't in the news, especially if they're deemed a security threat. Also, sometimes the news is voluntarily "embargoed," which means that the news IS there, and known by certain reporters, but kept quiet for a set period of time. I've worked on embargoed stories before. In return for advance information, the media agrees to not release the information until after a certain point.

That's a good point, though, about all those other "scary" things that never panned out. Oddly enough, none of them concerned me one bit. But how many Duncans can we handle before the system starts to break down?

It's an interesting debate.

 

[Guest3722A]

A question: Given the drug's VERY limited supply, do you think he should have gotten it, even if some were left?

Thank you for that. Extremely thought provoking. I think my point was that seeing that the virus is most contagious after death or near death, to me, it would’ve made sense to give him the drug when he was in early stages because maybe it would’ve reduced the ability for the virus to spread. But what do I know, y’know? As most, I’m in the dark with all of this.

Something I did find interesting though was that in my research of this drug, which is created by introducing it somewhere in the growth cycle to tobacco plants, (I believe ) I read that it can be manufactured quickly due to its ability to spread rapidly throughout an entire crop. And I’m sorry, but I can’t find that source at the moment, but, I’ll look for it when I have time. Something I do know though is there is a ton of tobacco out there, and it only takes a minute to clone several, and a few weeks to grow. But who knows what the details are thereafter.

Very interesting stuff though. Thank you