Why are Doctors such a$$ holes?

[Tommy92l]

My dad is a doctor and says... the exact same thing. He says he cannot stand them.

The funny thing is, when most docs are out at the highest of high class restaurants driving around their Lexus' with plates that let you know they're a doc, he hangs out with the blue collar crowd and drives a Harley.

He told me about how one time YEARS ago, there was a cancer doctor who was right in front of his patient (Who was dying, might i add), and the guy had the nerve to freakin' complain about a scratch on his Mercedes! Like, dude! You got that money from the guy dying in front of you! Have some class ! Unreal.

 

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[CarrieW]

THIS!

THIS IS IT! again. and I know how it sounds but idc. this is my problem in a nutshell. how perfect.

guess what dude. idc what grades you got in medical school. idc what position you graduated in your class. (because I know I have the ability to do exactly the same thing) idc how many letters you have before or after your name. I am Carrie F*cking Weber. I will be treated with respect. and if you cant respect me well then F*ck you. F*ck you and your degrees and your grades. LOL. Id rather suffer and die than pay homage to a person like that for even air...

 

[Tommy92l]

While they are total assholes, it can't just be doctors. I mean sure people hate them because the stereotype is that "They're rich", but really. 400K a year is rich to some of you on this forum? Some of you make 100K a month. There are plenty of other assholes out there to hate.

 

[CarrieW]

While they are total assholes, it can't just be doctors. I mean sure people hate them because the stereotype is that "They're rich", but really. 400K a year is rich to some of you on this forum? Some of you make 100K a month. There are plenty of other assholes out there to hate.

for others maybe. I don't hate people unless they do something to me. doctors happen to be one of the few kinds of people I have to interact with on a normal basis. sitting at red lights or being stuck in traffic doesn't get me upset. when the cashier messes up I don't flip out. when my food is cooked wrong I usually eat it (unless its really disgusting or unsafe) that said I expect certain things. and not even unreasonable things. and when the basics are not done or screwed up or you are an a**hole to me now its on... its got nothing to do with the car you drive or how much money you have in the bank... Id flip shit on just about anyone, rich poor idc. to me money is just a tool... disrespect me and you will know it. I am very forgiving of mistakes and shortcomings, but do something intentional and there is no mercy...

I would venture to guess most of the doctors I hate aren't rich LOL.(most doctors in general I would guess aren't what I would consider "rich") even if they were, I know this sounds crazy coming from someone on a board like this, but I don't envy money.

I hate people who give me reason to hate them, by what they do to me. period the end. idc what you did to john doe up the road, idc what you did last week, if you can do what I need you to do and not be an a**hole while your doing it were mint if not then we have issues.

 

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[Iwokeup]

Well, as a physician all that I can say is that:

* we are losing the ability to control HOW we practice medicine.
* too many "customer service" a$$holes in the business world, who have no idea about the practice of medicine, have driven medical practice into ridiculous metrics (door to doctor, "patient satisfaction") which turn us into glorified pill pushers.
* congruent with that is the entitled, over-informed ("I read on Google about X and so I know more than you") patient population who will complain to your corporate overlords if you do not do what they want, instead of what's actually best for them. By the way, the whole "I know my body," while it sounds nice is usually BS. Most (95%) have NO CLUE or understanding of what's happening to them and that's why there are doctors.
* Erosion of the field by mid level practitioners (mostly Nurse Practitioners) who are under trained, ignorant of their ignorance, but who claim that they are every bit the equal of the physican who spent at LEAST 7 years gettting to a decent practice level. There isn't any damn shortcut and most physicians know that there is so much that they DON"T know that they are (usually) humble in the face of the unknown.

Finally, there is all of the loss of control (financial, economic, bleeding of the bottom line by a huge number of folks who only see medicine as a gravy train). That has made me an a$$hole on more than one occasion.

end rant

 

[CarrieW]

Well, as a physician all that I can say is that:

* we are losing the ability to control HOW we practice medicine.
* too many "customer service" a$$holes in the business world, who have no idea about the practice of medicine, have driven medical practice into ridiculous metrics (door to doctor, "patient satisfaction") which turn us into glorified pill pushers.
* congruent with that is the entitled, over-informed ("I read on Google about X and so I know more than you") patient population who will complain to your corporate overlords if you do not do what they want, instead of what's actually best for them. By the way, the whole "I know my body," while it sounds nice is usually BS. Most (95%) have NO CLUE or understanding of what's happening to them and that's why there are doctors.
* Erosion of the field by mid level practitioners (mostly Nurse Practitioners) who are under trained, ignorant of their ignorance, but who claim that they are every bit the equal of the physican who spent at LEAST 7 years gettting to a decent practice level. There isn't any damn shortcut and most physicians know that there is so much that they DON"T know that they are (usually) humble in the face of the unknown.

Finally, there is all of the loss of control (financial, economic, bleeding of the bottom line by a huge number of folks who only see medicine as a gravy train). That has made me an a$$hole on more than one occasion.

end rant

I 100% totally agree with everything you just said! there are so many problems. the entire industry needs to changed. and not in the direction it is going.

the biggest issue that prompted my bringing up this thread was one of your points. (pa thinking they know as much as a specialist)

I also can understand that after years of practice one can feel like they know things that they really don't. which is how assumptions are made.

I do however have a major problem about the statement that you said about who turns drs into pill pushers. it is not the csr's its the entire industry. I have had first hand experience of being pushed into specific medications because the company that made it was running a "promotion" and a contest for a trip somewhere to the the most prescribing doctor. the doctors spend more time with drug reps then they do patients. almost the entire industry of pharmaceuticals is meant for the suppression of symptoms and not curing anything. and most cause more harm than good. I wont get into it here but I could go on and on about what wrong with the industry... (far longer list then what could be blamed on the individual patient like me)

and in defense.(not specifically @Iwokeup don't know you and you have done nothing to me personally )
I didn't choose to need a doctor. you chose to be one. so suck it up cupcake... if you don't like dealing with all of the above you should have chosen another profession... its not like these things you mentioned were hidden before you started. I on the other hand have no choice. its go see doctors and get what medicine done I know can help and sift through the assholes. or not and pretend the entire profession doesn't exist and let whatever happen happen... which for me is ok for time to time. I do get fed up and say screw it and go without needed medical care. but as a parent I cant do that. I HAVE TO PROVIDE MY KIDS MEDICAL CARE and that means I AM FORCED TO DEAL WITH IT. if only on their behalf...

 

[MJ DeMarco]

* we are losing the ability to control HOW we practice medicine.
* too many "customer service" a$$holes in the business world, who have no idea about the practice of medicine, have driven medical practice into ridiculous metrics (door to doctor, "patient satisfaction") which turn us into glorified pill pushers.
* congruent with that is the entitled, over-informed ("I read on Google about X and so I know more than you") patient population who will complain to your corporate overlords if you do not do what they want, instead of what's actually best for them. By the way, the whole "I know my body," while it sounds nice is usually BS. Most (95%) have NO CLUE or understanding of what's happening to them and that's why there are doctors.
* Erosion of the field by mid level practitioners (mostly Nurse Practitioners) who are under trained, ignorant of their ignorance, but who claim that they are every bit the equal of the physican who spent at LEAST 7 years gettting to a decent practice level. There isn't any damn shortcut and most physicians know that there is so much that they DON"T know that they are (usually) humble in the face of the unknown.
Finally, there is all of the loss of control (financial, economic, bleeding of the bottom line by a huge number of folks who only see medicine as a gravy train). That has made me an a$$hole on more than one occasion.

Rep+ for the inside perspective.

 

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[CarrieW]

Rep+ for the inside perspective.

it is nice to hear from someone inside the industry.

there is a local doctor that my husband sees who was so fed up with what was going on he changed it. we pay him cash and the doctor is great. (it would cost far too much $ for me to switch to him right now or I would)

I believe this is the new way the industry should head...

he doesn't take any insurances. and he doesn't carry malpractice insurance. he makes you sign a release and waiver upfront he mostly prescribes older generic drugs (because the % changes in effectiveness of new formulations are not worth the increase % in $) has contracts with all the local hospital and labs to get his patients tests and labs at a discount.(and I mean slightly more than my copays with insurance!) he has 2 office people. they see the same amount of patients as most offices would with a staff of 20+. and they handle it better then I have seen any office operate ever in my life.

for someone like my husband who is without insurance, generally healthy and only needs an antibiotic every once in awhile or some yearly blood work or even meds to quit smoking(which is how we found him) it saves insane amounts of money.(and heartache) for me because I have insurance they don't take(that I have to pay for) and need so many tests and things it just isn't feasible to switch... the second I hit the accelerator in the fast lane though I am out of all these "systems"

when we called, my ex-doctor first of all couldn't even tell me (nor could the staff) how much it was going to cost for the visit until he came in and actually had the visit so they could determine what the dr needed to do(regardless that we just wanted a rx) they couldn't tell us what "tier" the visit would be rated. the min was $100 up to 300. and he had to have all the cash at the time of the visit... he was going to want blood work and all kinds of other things too ontop of that and a return visit before he could prescribe anything...

this guy we paid $50. my husband had a complete physical, conferred about any and every concern, and he left with his meds.

 

[Iwokeup]

Rep+ for the inside perspective.

Thanks, MJ!

 

[Iwokeup]

@CarrieW,

A lot to unpack in these comments, but I would like to address two of them:

1. Ah yes the old "Well, you picked the job so suck it up" line. Haven't heard that one a million times.

I want you to please consider that most of us (people going into medicine) are shielded from the gritty realities of actual practice until it is far too late to get out or choose another track. As well, that sort of response doesn't actually address the truth of what I am saying. There are serious systemic issues in American health care that have nothing to do with the physicians but everything to do with government and the corporatization of health care in this country (weak, industry beholden FDA, hospital reimbursements, etc). Doctors aren't in control and haven't been for a long time.... Hence my work to leave the Slow Lane.

2. What your husband's doctor does is awesome but a lot of Dems and corporate interests are actively working on making this kind of cash driven, market approach to medicine illegal.

 

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[CarrieW]

again I agree with what you say.

my specific opinion of the doctors that I consider douches are not because of the disfunctioning system. but the way they treated me specifically.

but I 100% agree that you are right the system is horrible. I tend to believe the people who really got into it to help people actually do it despite the system. (like dr Mathews and my new dr I think I like) and most of the others. and I hope you. but the ones I am talking about probably would have been nasty assholes no matter what profession they chose, and were attracted to the power of being a dr and not because they actually wanted to help people.

I have doctors that I have loved. doctors I have hated and everywhere in between. I am not saying all doctors are bad. it just seems lately I have been seeing it get worse (because it was compounded by my son and my mothers health issues)

the second point you make I cant comment too because it gets too political. and I am generally all for business (look at the board I am on) but in my opinion healthcare should not be about profits. its horrible and it isn't getting any better any time soon and again the system is not the same as the people in it. I have had a few very pleasant wonderful caring doctors working in the same system. and then well there are the douchebags.

 

[Iwokeup]

Not sure of the ettiquette, but thanks to @Vigilante and @cautiouscapy for the rep.

 

[Iwokeup]

the second point you make I cant comment too because it gets too political. and I am generally all for business (look at the board I am on) but in my opinion healthcare should not be about profits. its horrible and it isn't getting any better any time soon and again the system is not the same as the people in it. I have had a few very pleasant wonderful caring doctors working in the same system. and then well there are the douchebags.

This, I believe, is the root of everything that's wrong or right about healthcare today.

Actually, I think that healthcare should be profit driven, but for physicians and not corporate systems. Nor should the corporate practice of medicine be allowed. But it is and is destroying medicine.

 

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[CarrieW]

It is destroying alot more than medicine...

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[Toushi]

I absolutely hate doctors, they have been responsible for so much undue sorrow in my life.

The misdiagnosis rate has been judged by some studies to be near 40%. Therein lies the problem of relinquishing control in your health just like in your finances. Is it really worth putting one of your most valuable assets in the hands of a "professional" who went through the admirable "rigors" of rote learning?

 

[CarrieW]

I absolutely hate doctors, they have been responsible for so much undue sorrow in my life.

The misdiagnosis rate has been judged by some studies to be near 40%. Therein lies the problem of relinquishing control in your health just like in your finances. Is it really worth putting one of your most valuable assets in the hands of a "professional" who went through the admirable "rigors" of rote learning?

in defense of doctors on this one. a lot of people are horrible at knowing whats going on. and even worse at explaining symptoms. a lot of symptoms may seem totally normal but yet yield the biggest clues.

and most presenting symptoms usually treated go away. only a small % of what they see is actually something more serious. think of it like a mechanic trying to diagnose a car without knowing the language and the car not being able to tell it that it overheated and is burning all its oil because when the mechanic sees it its full of fluid and oil... problems are probably readily seen but without all kind of information and diagnostics its impossible to know...

 

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[Iwokeup]

I absolutely hate doctors, they have been responsible for so much undue sorrow in my life.

The misdiagnosis rate has been judged by some studies to be near 40%. Therein lies the problem of relinquishing control in your health just like in your finances. Is it really worth putting one of your most valuable assets in the hands of a "professional" who went through the admirable "rigors" of rote learning?

So who would you put yourself into the hands of then? Not being snarky, but just asking.

Also keep in mind that human beings as biological systems are not rigorous and do not always "follow the rules." Diagnosis is complex and the more information that you have plus extensive training and experience, the lower the likelihood of error. But it's not and won't ever be zero, man.

 

[CarrieW]

So who would you put yourself into the hands of then? Not being snarky, but just asking.

Also keep in mind that human beings as biological systems are not rigorous and do not always "follow the rules." Diagnosis is complex and the more information that you have plus extensive training and experience, the lower the likelihood of error. But it's not and won't ever be zero, man.

even then somethings defy diagnosis. that's just a fact. there are breakthroughs everyday in medicine. things that killed people years ago are cured in a few days with a few pills.

that's why I get upset when doctors lump me into the 95% and by God we all know I love me some Google. but google is not a doctor and is only a starting point or information gathering place. I have learned a great deal from google. mostly what questions to ask... you can prove anything right or wrong on google and have things that will kill you be ok and things ok that will frickin kill you. a doctor should be a trusted source to help you filter information. you definitely should be an advocate for yourself and know whats going on, but there are definitely times to defer to the experts

 

[Shades]

o jesus. I could go on and on about doctors. Unfortunately ive had to deal with many since my fiance has two quite severe chronic conditions that the vast majority of doctors know almost nothing about. And when doctors dont know something, guess what they say? "Its in your head" or try to pin conversion disorder on you. Ugh, 95% of them are just pathetic disgusting human beings if im being honest. I mean, its impossible for them to not know the answers to everything right?

But when you do find the good ones it is awesome. Its just hard getting to that point most of the time.

And to the doctor who said something about the Google generation of patients.... I can see your point to a extent. However, if not for me doing a shit ton of research on my own, listening to seminars of top docs in the field and always asking questions I have no idea where my fiance would be right now. Now more then ever you have to be partly your own doctor. The field is just flooded with morons. Im sure you are aware of that. Most doctors are simply there to get through the day, subscribe some anti depressants or blood pressure meds and get their kickbacks. No interest in learning anything new.

Basically, if you have a broken finger or something like that you will be fine. But if you have anything serious or something out of the norm, just pray.

 

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[Toushi]

So who would you put yourself into the hands of then?

Diagnosis is complex and the more information that you have plus extensive training and experience, the lower the likelihood of error. But it's not and won't ever be zero, man.

It's about control or having as much of it as you can for me. I'm not about skirting doctors entirely, just taking more responsibility on health. Prophylactic measures are for the most part in one's control. Eat right, exercise, supplements, online research, generic meds, online lab test orders etc. Not a huge fan of the pharmaceutical industry either and it's patently obvious doctors these days are concerned more with pill pushing and metrics than a patient's health.

 

[CarrieW]

I absolutely hate doctors, they have been responsible for so much undue sorrow in my life.

The misdiagnosis rate has been judged by some studies to be near 40%. Therein lies the problem of relinquishing control in your health just like in your finances. Is it really worth putting one of your most valuable assets in the hands of a "professional" who went through the admirable "rigors" of rote learning?

I dont put my health in just anyones hands. that's why I have such a problem with doctors LOL

I have doctors whose opinions I trust that I dislike personally greatly, and doctors I love who I wouldn't trust for anything other than regular medication and then other doctors who are basically incompetent. (my last doctor lol what a joke that guy was.) and others who are probably greatly competent that I just cant stand and wouldn't let give me cpr if I were dying LOL.

 

[Iwokeup]

I whole heartedly agree with taking control and responsibility for the things that you can do to control your health :diet, exercise, etc. That's an outstanding attitude and one that I love in my patients. ☺

With respect to the pill pushing.. Yeah, that's a complicated issue. Some is done out of ignorance, some out of placation ("Dr, DO SOMETHING! "), and sometimes misunderstanding (as in, poorly designed or poorly understood causes of disease (such as" cholesterol and fat is bad for you "being flat wrong).

I can honestly say that fraud is waaay down on the list...

Good post

 

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[mikekob]

I've met a lot of docs during my time as an ambulance driver. Some were amazing and walked in the room and made shit happen. I've also met a lot of docs that are raging cock suckers. Same with other medics, firefighters, nurses, and cops. It's a field that requires a lot of Alpha in that person. I sure as hell have it, I just find no reason to treat people differently.

 

[Toushi]

I can honestly say that fraud is waaay down on the list...

Good post

I've read that doctors are receiving financial kickbacks in order to promote a certain brand of med from the pharma industry at workshops/conventions they attend? Also that they are rewarded nicely for putting their name on peer reviewed studies, as an INSIDERS have you encountered this? Seems they are catering to their stakeholders more than the patient's health at stake.

 

[smarty]

actually I'm not a doctor but what purpose does it serve to complain about doctors here in a "fastlane forum", just because you have had bad experiences with them? We all have had good and bad experiences which isn't the least important to anybody else except you. It's like saying "all blonde people are dumb because I know some of them who are". Ridiculous!

 

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[CarrieW]

View attachment 7640

actually I'm not a doctor but what purpose does it serve to complain about doctors here in a "fastlane forum", just because you have had bad experiences with them? We all have had good and bad experiences which isn't the least important to anybody else except you. It's like saying "all blonde people are dumb because I know some of them who are". Ridiculous!

that's not true. despite the fact that this is in the rest stop/off topic area of the forum it could serve a few purposes right off the top of my head. perhaps it spawns a new business idea. perhaps it helps someone learn something about customer service or how to treat people in general. maybe someone gains insights into the industry to create something related to easing the pain points discussed here. or how to interact with doctors or people in the medical profession for any of the above...

there have been a lot of people contributing many points on all sides. I think it served a few things. but the only intention I had when I created it was to make myself feel better and to know I was not the only one encountering issues like this. there aren't many people who can relate to challenging the authority of someone in charge like the unique people on this forum. I was hoping for support which I feel I got in spades. and I love everyone here for that <3

and no one here is talking in absolutes. because you are in fact right that would indeed be ridiculous...

 

[Shades]

I've read that doctors are receiving financial kickbacks in order to promote a certain brand of med from the pharma industry at workshops/conventions they attend? Also that they are rewarded nicely for putting their name on peer reviewed studies, as an INSIDERS have you encountered this? Seems they are catering to their stakeholders more than the patient's health at stake.

Go into a doctors office any day of the week and you will likely see a drug rep in a suit and tie waiting to speak with the doctor with their little rolling briefcase full of med samples. Doctors are getting compensated. Not all probably play that game but id bet the majority do.

Look at spinal cord simulators for instance. Huge boom. Every pain doctor is trying to get chronic patients on these things. Even tho they dont work for many. And even when they do, they dont work after 2-3 years. They can do more harm then good. Dangerous surgery. Turns out docs are getting large kickbacks of these things. Not a shocker. A big mess. Money over actually giving a shit about the patient. Same with the boom in things like nerve block injections. Highly dangerous. High probability they wont work at all. When they work its for usually a few days. But most people have no idea about these things. The doctor would never mention the high failure/defect rate of spinal stims etc....

Think for yourself. Research everything. Listen to people who have had your issues and things they have been through. Taking a doctors word for it is a dangerous game to play.

 

[CarrieW]

3 docs today 5 apts only 2 are mine. Ones for an injection lol. I have a tens unit (that I love! ) and can get an internal stim any time I choose to move forward. There are many reasons I haven't yet.

Shades is dead on.

Ill post back later today

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[Toushi]

Think for yourself. Research everything. Listen to people who have had your issues and things they have been through. Taking a doctors word for it is a dangerous game to play.

Very true, I think this critical thinking and anti-authoritarian mindset is why many of us pursue the fastlane in the first place. We see through lies and challenge conventional norms; this is why we may never make good 9-5ers.

They even have this "guarded prognosis" rule in place to prevent them from litigation which essentially leaves patients in the dark about how their health is progressing. This is why when you ask them direct questions they try to speak in a way in which, if needed in the future, they could disclaim statements made.

 

[CarrieW]

Sleep doc check. Conditional or Learned insomnia is what I have lol. He was awesome. Definitely a non douche. Im Sitting@ ortho now... fun fun

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