Where do I even start from?

[Prateik Lohani]

I read the thread of the Fox Legends Program on this forum and downloaded his E-book and read the whole thing. It's a great book and I have the mindset, but given the vast amount of information on the internet and the different advice that every article gives, it is way too overwhelming for me and I always end up going multiple places without achieving much.

I have bare-minimum (I mean it) HTML, CSS and JS skills (and I know that they are not the most important thing for web design but you need some of it obviously) and I have been learning about web design from a 5 hr youtube course from Envata tuts+ but I just don't know how I go on to sell to my first client.

On an important note- it looks super demotivating to look at those websites posted on sites like dribbble by the pros.
I want to freelance as a web designer for the time being, but I just don't know the practical steps to achieve them.
Any web designers who had the same bag of issues as a beginner? It would be a massive help if you could provide some guidance

 

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[perchboy]

the web design space is all about marketing.

there are Indian freelancers who charge $30 for a website and then there are "agencies" that charge $30,000 for a website.

being good at sales and shit at the design part is much better than the other way around.

just use wordpress bro. its easier more time efficient, and you get the same results. or worst case scenario you can just outsource it. there are so many web design freelancers starving for sales

 

[Nightwolf]

the web design space is all about marketing.

there are Indian freelancers who charge $30 for a website and then there are "agencies" that charge $30,000 for a website.

being good at sales and shit at the design part is much better than the other way around.

just use wordpress bro. its easier more time efficient, and you get the same results. or worst case scenario you can just outsource it. there are so many web design freelancers starving for sales

I agree with this. Sales skills are essential and I am currently learning that as well.

I have been learning about web design from a 5 hr youtube course

Well for starters you should upskill yourself. While basic knowledge of front-end MIGHT be enough if you know how to sell and do your job correctly, you should focus on improving your skills. Either go all in on front-end design, learn everything there is to learn like fonts, color theory, how to decrease bounce rate, correct call to actions etc. Or diversify your skills with back-end so that you know how to build full stack applications.

I want to freelance as a web designer for the time being, but I just don't know the practical steps to achieve them

Go on UpWork and register yourself? Freelancing is not recommended here but that's all you really have to do to freelance.

Any web designers who had the same bag of issues as a beginner? It would be a massive help if you could provide some guidance

I personally improved my skills of both front and backend to qualify as a full stack developer and am currently learning front end frameworks like React.js and Angular to improve my UI/UX. I am in the process of starting my web design company.

 

[BizyDad]

being good at sales and shit at the design part is much better than the other way around.

Completely disagree.

Hiring a salesperson and giving them a commission off of every sale is one of the easiest kinds of jobs to fill.

If you are a great designer, and a terrible salesperson, then bring in a sales person. Your company will grow and your work and in the quality of your work will speak for itself. Which will make your salesperson's job so much easier.

But if you're really good at sales, and then you fail to deliver a quality website, you're just building a house of cards. People will leave reviews for you. People will put information up on scam sites about you. Good luck ever charging $30,000 for that website.

Companies that focus on sales over substance are borderline scam artists.

If you are just getting started, then focus on providing value. If your skills are super basic, then offer super basic pricing.

If I got a super basic website and pay $30,000 for it I would be upset. If I got a super basic website and pay $300 for it, I'd be super happy.

Hope that helps.

 

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[perchboy]

Completely disagree.

Hiring a salesperson and giving them a commission off of every sale is one of the easiest kinds of jobs to fill.

If you are a great designer, and a terrible salesperson, then bring in a sales person. Your company will grow and your work and in the quality of your work will speak for itself. Which will make your salesperson's job so much easier.

But if you're really good at sales, and then you fail to deliver a quality website, you're just building a house of cards. People will leave reviews for you. People will put information up on scam sites about you. Good luck ever charging $30,000 for that website.

Companies that focus on sales over substance are borderline scam artists.

If you are just getting started, then focus on providing value. If your skills are super basic, then offer super basic pricing.

If I got a super basic website and pay $30,000 for it I would be upset. If I got a super basic website and pay $300 for it, I'd be super happy.

Hope that helps.

He will become a “great designer” after practicing for two years and then struggle to get any sales since it’s so oversaturated

Why would a salesperson pay this guy decent money who barely knows web design when he could just pay a cheap freelancer $30 and take more profit?

 

[Nightwolf]

Completely disagree.

Hiring a salesperson and giving them a commission off of every sale is one of the easiest kinds of jobs to fill.

If you are a great designer, and a terrible salesperson, then bring in a sales person. Your company will grow and your work and in the quality of your work will speak for itself. Which will make your salesperson's job so much easier.

But if you're really good at sales, and then you fail to deliver a quality website, you're just building a house of cards. People will leave reviews for you. People will put information up on scam sites about you. Good luck ever charging $30,000 for that website.

Companies that focus on sales over substance are borderline scam artists.

If you are just getting started, then focus on providing value. If your skills are super basic, then offer super basic pricing.

If I got a super basic website and pay $30,000 for it I would be upset. If I got a super basic website and pay $300 for it, I'd be super happy.

Hope that helps.

But isn't sales a great skill to have? It's the Queen in the game of chess, right? Wouldn't average web design skills + great sales skills result in more revenue than great design skills + average sales skills?
(Please correct me if I am wrong. I am here to learn so getting my concepts cleared is my priority, don't take this as a counterpoint but instead as a question from a newbie.)

 

[BizyDad]

He will become a “great designer” after practicing for two years and then struggle to get any sales since it’s so oversaturated

Why would a salesperson pay this guy decent money who barely knows web design when he could just pay a cheap freelancer $30 and take more profit?

I suppose I was speaking more generally, as opposed to this specific case.

I see your point that a person with sales skills can start their company without actual design skills and could just hire designers.

That's a good point too. I suppose my issue there is still the ability to deliver a quality product without the product knowledge.

But isn't sales a great skill to have? It's the Queen in the game of chess, right? Wouldn't average web design skills + great sales skills result in more revenue than great design skills + average sales skills?
(Please correct me if I am wrong. I am here to learn so getting my concepts cleared is my priority, don't take this as a counterpoint but instead as a question from a newbie.)

There is any number of ways to start and any of number of ways to grow. My way isn't "the only way" or even "the best way".

I feel like you both are talking about the best place to start. And from that perspective, I agree with you guys.

But in order to get to the Fastlane, you've got to think beyond a one person team. You can hire a great designer and handle sales, or you can hire a great salesperson, and handle design.

Eventually maybe you hire both. And a general manager.

And to get to that level, your company reputation will matter. Which means you've got to ship value.

You can ship lower cost websites that are average at best. And customers will be happy.

You can ship higher cost websites that are average at best, and your reputation will suffer. Many people overcome this challenge by adding on marketing services as well. On average website with a good marketing campaign will still make money for the client.

Or you can ship higher cost websites with higher quality design. And then add on marketing on to those.

That last one will have the best revenue. So you'll be able to attract quality talent. And you won't need to spend as much on marketing because you'll have an excellent reputation.

And that's the asset you want to sell. And selling these assets is how you hit an exit event that has you set for life.

The point of the thread was to discuss where to start. And I think you both are giving solid advice.

My brain just naturally skips ahead as well, and offers advice on that too. Because I believe you begin with the end in mind. And if you have the end in mind, then it might change a little bit how you begin...

But the most important thing is to start. Learn as you go.

Hope that helps.

 

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[Oso]

Hiring a salesperson and giving them a commission off of every sale is one of the easiest kinds of jobs to fill.

This right here. 100%.

I launched my agency in late 2022 with a staff of 5 sales that were all 100% commission-based, with myself as the CEO/only developer. I gave them more or less "basic training," and off to the races they went. Having commission-based sales people is the reason my agency has grown as quickly as it has. Their entire job can be completed with nothing more than a cell phone.

Being commission-based will also save you a ton of time in regards to managing employees. I know who works and who doesn't based off of who's receiving payouts. Some request additional training, some ghost you, etc. Part of the game, I'm afraid.

Regardless of what you do, OP, I cannot recommend having, at the very least, a few commission-based sales people when you launch. If nothing else, the people filling those roles and landing you sales will be the people that enable you to focus on growing your business, and gives you ample time to focus on your tech skills.

As my final thought, if you look at web design/development and/or marketing threads here, you'll quite often see people say something along the lines of "tech skills are irrelevant! You can learn how to be WordPress Developer in like, 30min, bruv, so focus on sales!" That's outright bullshit. Focus on your tech skills while either having a team handle your sales, or while also stretching yourself into sales.

Because I promise you, you can be the best salesman in the world, but the instant you deliver a website that doesn't meet "industry standards" is the instant your reputation takes a massive hit. In regards to tech, just remember one thing:

"Overdeliver AT ALL TIMES because the reality is there's an Indian guy somewhere willing to deliver infinitely better results for 5$/mo."

Good luck.

 

[Nightwolf]

This right here. 100%.

I launched my agency in late 2022 with a staff of 5 sales that were all 100% commission-based, with myself as the CEO/only developer. I gave them more or less "basic training," and off to the races they went. Having commission-based sales people is the reason my agency has grown as quickly as it has. Their entire job can be completed with nothing more than a cell phone.

Being commission-based will also save you a ton of time in regards to managing employees. I know who works and who doesn't based off of who's receiving payouts. Some request additional training, some ghost you, etc. Part of the game, I'm afraid.

Regardless of what you do, OP, I cannot recommend having, at the very least, a few commission-based sales people when you launch. If nothing else, the people filling those roles and landing you sales will be the people that enable you to focus on growing your business, and gives you ample time to focus on your tech skills.

As my final thought, if you look at web design/development and/or marketing threads here, you'll quite often see people say something along the lines of "tech skills are irrelevant! You can learn how to be WordPress Developer in like, 30min, bruv, so focus on sales!" That's outright bullshit. Focus on your tech skills while either having a team handle your sales, or while also stretching yourself into sales.

Because I promise you, you can be the best salesman in the world, but the instant you deliver a website that doesn't meet "industry standards" is the instant your reputation takes a massive hit. In regards to tech, just remember one thing:

"Overdeliver AT ALL TIMES because the reality is there's an Indian guy somewhere willing to deliver infinitely better results for 5$/mo."

Good luck.

How did you find those salespeople? I am also about to start my web design company and commission-based salesmen could do the trick, I won't have to pay them until and unless they close a deal that ensures profit.
Also when you started how much knowledge did you have in web development? Did you build full-stack applications from scratch or only front-end apps using templates as Fox does?
I also have many questions that I'd rather ask in PM's rather than clutter this thread if that's okay?

 

[Oso]

How did you find those salespeople? I am also about to start my web design company and commission-based salesmen could do the trick, I won't have to pay them until and unless they close a deal that ensures profit.
Also when you started how much knowledge did you have in web development? Did you build full-stack applications from scratch or only front-end apps using templates as Fox does?
I also have many questions that I'd rather ask in PM's rather than clutter this thread if that's okay?

Feel free to PM me. I'm always happy to help fellow developers/agency owners of all levels/experience.

Recruitment

I wanted my recruiting to be as simple and professional as possible while incorporating my personality. I created a "career" section on my website. I have a short application and a section to attach a resume and/or cover letter (I don't require cover letters). Most of my initial applicants were former co-workers, friends, and friends of friends. Nowadays, most of our applicants are randoms. I could've started with 10 salespeople, but I didn't want to stretch myself thin as I had to hire and train the initial team.

Web Development

I earned a certification in full-stack web development via online bootcamp in 2021. I currently have ~5 years of experience. I consider myself a junior developer.

I can, and often do, build full-stack apps from scratch, though as you gain experience, you eventually learn to create templates for yourself, even for things as complicated (and/or simple) as apps. Lately, in my day-to-day, I've been messing around with AI modeling in an attempt to get ahead of (most) via utilizing AI into my agency.

 

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[Ayush6543]

This right here. 100%.

I launched my agency in late 2022 with a staff of 5 sales that were all 100% commission-based, with myself as the CEO/only developer. I gave them more or less "basic training," and off to the races they went. Having commission-based sales people is the reason my agency has grown as quickly as it has. Their entire job can be completed with nothing more than a cell phone.

Being commission-based will also save you a ton of time in regards to managing employees. I know who works and who doesn't based off of who's receiving payouts. Some request additional training, some ghost you, etc. Part of the game, I'm afraid.

Regardless of what you do, OP, I cannot recommend having, at the very least, a few commission-based sales people when you launch. If nothing else, the people filling those roles and landing you sales will be the people that enable you to focus on growing your business, and gives you ample time to focus on your tech skills.

As my final thought, if you look at web design/development and/or marketing threads here, you'll quite often see people say something along the lines of "tech skills are irrelevant! You can learn how to be WordPress Developer in like, 30min, bruv, so focus on sales!" That's outright bullshit. Focus on your tech skills while either having a team handle your sales, or while also stretching yourself into sales.

Because I promise you, you can be the best salesman in the world, but the instant you deliver a website that doesn't meet "industry standards" is the instant your reputation takes a massive hit. In regards to tech, just remember one thing:

"Overdeliver AT ALL TIMES because the reality is there's an Indian guy somewhere willing to deliver infinitely better results for 5$/mo."

Good luck.

LOL! I am an Indian developer, and this is so true, I build a SAAS website for a client, with AWS and React, and I charged only $100

 

[Oso]

LOL! I am an Indian developer, and this is so true, I build a SAAS website for a client, with AWS and React, and I charged only $100

I hate it because so many of you absolutely F*ck yourselves regarding pricing, which in turn F*cks everyone else. That said, we all gotta eat, lmfao.

In all seriousness, I always tell my developer friends the moment everyone in India learns English is the moment every American developer loses their job.

 

[Ayush6543]

I hate it because so many of you absolutely F*ck yourselves regarding pricing, which in turn F*cks everyone else. That said, we all gotta eat, lmfao.

In all seriousness, I always tell my developer friends the moment everyone in Indian learns English is the moment every American developer loses their job.

I was just wanting to get the project, I was very desperate. I thought if I get the project, then I will raise my prices .

 

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