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HOT TOPIC What is your life like without a college degree?

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Vigilante

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The default mindset is if you don't know what to do… Go to college.

That is the absolute worst advice you could ever give anybody.
 

eekern

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The default mindset is if you don't know what to do… Go to college.

That is the absolute worst advice you could ever give anybody.

100% agree, that was the advice my parents gave me (and most likely their parents gave them)

It should be flipped 180 degrees. If you KNOW what you want, go to college. (As long as you want a JOB of course!)

I still have a hard time understanding why my parents did not learn this lesson during their life, but then again I have a feeling they give this advice from lack of alternatives (they always want to give the most "secure/comfortable advise)
 

Vigilante

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100% agree, that was the advice my parents gave me (and most likely their parents gave them)

It should be flipped 180 degrees. If you KNOW what you want, go to college. (As long as you want a JOB of course!)

I still have a hard time understanding why my parents did not learn this lesson during their life, but then again I have a feeling they give this advice from lack of alternatives (they always want to give the most "secure/comfortable advise)

My parents still want me to go to college. Not kidding.
 

eekern

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My parents still want me to go to college. Not kidding.

Yeah, it is what it is. Unless you brainwash them playing the millionaire fastlane audiobook when they sleep - they will never agree with you.

Prove them wrong by making massive success and teach your kids the rules in todays world, hehe.
 

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Yeah, it is what it is. Unless you brainwash them playing the millionaire fastlane audiobook when they sleep - they will never agree with you.

Prove them wrong by making massive success and teach your kids the rules in todays world, hehe.

It's game over in that regard, as they know that I make more in a year than my hard working parents made combined in several years.

They bought into the lie. Esteem for those who pride themselves on their credential lies within the credential itself, not how it translates.

As I have said before... the people the most impressed by college degrees... are other people with college degrees.
 

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I believe (most) parents want what is best for their kids, and dispense advice based on their sometimes limited world view.

My Dad has always perceived himself as my largest competitor. My abandoning of their road map (and religion) ultimately was a reflection not on me, but on their perception of themselves. Breaking out invalidates their deeply held beliefs. Doesn't matter if what they believe is wrong or not. That generation bought into the system whole heartedly. Still does.

During the period of time when I traveled to Asia 12 times(?) in a year, my father commented on how it would never amount to anything. Meanwhile, my retainer to do so was 3x-4x his best years earnings. It spawned a million dollar salary offer, which I turned down. That window set up the next window. Which set up the next. And the next.

It's ok that they don't get it. Has no bearing. There are people in this very forum --- in this very thread --- that don't get it. That's OK. Nothing I have done relies on anyone else's approval.

Has no bearing. If anything, when it is family it strengthens resolve. I am not motivated to "beat" them. In fact, I hope that my kids surpass me 1,000x over. If they don't, I haven't done my job. My mother is the quintessential action faker. She calls me up 1x a month with an "idea" for a business. She has never taken action on any of them, mind you. She's like everyone else. She has ideas, but spent a lifetime never taking action on any of them.

I love 'em. They're good people. They just don't get how times have changed, and how the tools that are available to each of us didn't exist 10 years ago, and what academia is teaching from text books printed a year ago is out of date when they assign the homework on it. But.. the professors for the most part don't know either - especially that spent their life and earn their liveleyhood making a living from propagating the system that feeds their families.
 

TonyStark

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The default mindset is if you don't know what to do… Go to college.

That is the absolute worst advice you could ever give anybody.
It's like saying, if you have an extra 50 grand lying around, go ahead and invest it in the stock market. Most people that go to college don't know the value of $50,000.
 

Vigilante

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It's like saying, if you have an extra 50 grand lying around, go ahead and invest it in the stock market. Most people that go to college don't know the value of $50,000.

It's monopoly money if someone else is paying for it, or if it is a "loan." It doesn't become real until they drop out or graduate and actually have to start paying it back. Then they're like "holy shit.."

Working for $40k a year with $90k in student loan debt. Pretty great.
 

Impressive M

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The default mindset is if you don't know what to do… Go to college.

That is the absolute worst advice you could ever give anybody.

We are having our first kid in about 10-15 days and if my kid comes to me with a logical reason to why he/she doesn't' want to go to College at all, i will listen and support them a 100%... Wife agrees is on same page about this for all our future kids
 

Vigilante

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We are having our first kid in about 10-15 days and if my kid comes to me with a logical reason to why he/she doesn't' want to go to College at all, i will listen and support them a 100%... Wife agrees is on same page about this for all our future kids

I put my two older kids through college. One needed a psych degree, the other an engineering degree. Both professions where credential is required.

I wouldn't pay for a liberal arts degree, or other bullshit degrees like "business."
 

Impressive M

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I put my two older kids through college. One needed a psych degree, the other an engineering degree. Both professions where credential is required.

I wouldn't pay for a liberal arts degree, or other bullshit degrees like "business."
very true, my wife is a doctor and there is no way she could have done this without spending 6 Plus years in college... Thats' why i mention, kids gotta come up with Logical explanation.
 

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The default mindset is if you don't know what to do… Go to college.

That is the absolute worst advice you could ever give anybody.

What would you advice instead? If you had a half year left of school and had to decide "what to do"?
Work a job which doesnt need a degree and start/grow your business while doing so?
Go abroad and do "work-and-travel"?
Something else?

I would really appreciate your answer.
 

Blue1214

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I put my two older kids through college. One needed a psych degree, the other an engineering degree. Both professions where credential is required.

I wouldn't pay for a liberal arts degree, or other bullshit degrees like "business."

I can't tell you how many cocky "business degree" holding people I've met in my life who have no clue what the hell it means to start or run a business successfully, but they are proud of the fact that they have that degree.
 

PedroG

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I can't tell you how many cocky "business degree" holding people I've met in my life who have no clue what the hell it means to start or run a business successfully, but they are proud of the fact that they have that degree.

Yeah, the problem is the idiots who think it's the degree that somehow will turn them into successful business people, although they have no passion and no clue. I know some people like this. Not cocky, but people who have never demonstrated a desire or passion for starting/running a business, but got their MBAs just because they thought it would somehow helped them in their career. They don't get it. It's not the degree. It's the person. Some people can turn that degree into gold. But in the hands of most, it's worthless.
 

PedroG

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Have you ever run the calculation on your break even point? Typically it's around a dozen years. By breakeven point I am talking about people that went straight into the workforce, have four years of earnings ahead of you, and spent zero on a college education.

On average, most college graduate without specified certification degrees are working in careers that don't require a degree. As a result, even if they start with a higher base salary (which is debatable) they have a four year earnings gap with annual increases to close, before accounting for four or five years of school, expenses, textbooks, and room and board.

Sometimes things aren't always what they seem. You might not realize how much that beer pong actually cost you.


If you spend $160,000 on your degree, while your "non-educated" peer went straight into the workforce making $40,000 a year, you have a $320,000 deficit to make up before you reach a breaking even point. Assumes you graduate in four years, which most don't. Chances are the earnings gap is higher.

Most never do. You have to make the difference up only between your salary and the gap to your "uneducated peer" salary. Even if the earnings gap is $10,000 a year, it's going to take you 32 years to close the gap.

And, if you haven't figured it out yet… The $1 million earnings gap promoted by academia itself is bullshit with no statistics to back it up.

You bring up a good point, and yes, I didn't address that at all in my post. in my case, when I graduated, I owed only 13k, which is nothing. I was making six figures within 6-7 years of graduating. I agree that if we are talking about having a shit load of debt, then it is a completely different story. It also depends on what you are actually studying and what your ROI is on that.

So I agree completely. In my case it was a no-brainer because I wasn't accumulating a lot of debt. And I completely agree about liberal arts degrees being bullshit. But if you want to be a software engineer, you need to have at least a bachelor's degree and it isn't a bad degree to have in the meantime (if you can do it without owing too much) while you figure out what to do fastlane-wise.
 
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Ubermensch

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So why the thread? It seems there are no shortage of stories of people who went the 'conventional' route by attending college who then received a coveted high paying job in their desired industry.

No shortage, huh? Let's quantify that sentence.

What, exactly, do you mean?

There is no shortage of people with college degrees serving people coffee. In cafes across America, pitifully overqualified millennials work as baristas and other entry-level or near entry-level positions.

There is no shortage of people who have won the lottery. That is certainly not an argument in favor of playing the lottery, and it doesn't make not playing the lottery look foolish.

But what about all the folks that didn't go to college or never finished? Where are they now? I would like this thread to serve as a resource that answers these questions by giving readers a perspective of what life is really like without a college degree. This can be a place to share the successes and struggles, the funny and ridiculous stories of what your life without a degree has been like.

Break a population up into categories, and sub-categories will likely apply.

In other words, not all college drop outs - or people who never go to college - are created equal. The college dropout who drops out to pursue a career in sales, or start his own enterprise, far exceeds the guy who sucks on government assistance, or just gets by with menial jobs, pursuing and possessing no higher aspirations.

So, if you are living without a college degree feel free to share stories or answer some of the provided questions below to help people get perspective.

Questions for anyone:
- Did you find it difficult to find high paying work without a degree?

People familiar with MJ's writing should know about the concept of exponential growth versus linear growth of income.

The college graduate who accepts the "ideal" job straight out of college embraces the short-term gratification of linear growth. The line start at a high point - at least it seems that way in the moment - and gradually increases every year, with every annual salary and bonus increase.

Before I get to my point on exponential income and how it relates to your question, allow me an aside:


Here is a quote from the hardback copy of the book:

Quote from Bold

Page 7: Understanding the power of exponentials is easy to do. We hominids evolved in a world that was local and linear. Back then, life was local because everything in our forebears' lives was usually within a day's walk. If something happened on the other side of the planet we knew nothing about it. Life was also linear, meaning nothing changed over centuries or even millennia. In stark contrast, today we live in a world that is global and exponential. The problem is that our brains - and thus our perceptual capabilities - were never designed to process at either this scale or this speed. Our linear mind literally cannot grok exponential progression.

I dropped out of college at 16 and got into sales in my late teens. I never found the right opportunity, and hopped around from position to position for years. The recession didn't help, either.

In my early twenties, I barely eclipsed my peers in income.

At 26, bang. Exponential income hits my life. Almost $200,000 in a week, and that wasn't the only one. For me, making that amount of money in that amount of time proved beyond the shadow of any doubt that I had made the right decision years ago.

INTERVIEW WITH THE AUTHOR



- Do you feel you would have had more opportunities if you had a college degree?

Define opportunity.

Opportunity exists in the real world, and waits for the hungry, curious and perhaps the ingenious to find it. You and me both - in this moment - have the choice and opportunity to take years of biology and chemistry classes, and then study medicine. We have the "opportunity" to become a doctor.

The opportunities you grasp in life depend on how far you reach. If someone smacks your hands away, do you "fight, fight, FIGHT for it"? :greedy:

Most people believe the myth that opportunity knocks which implies that one can just sit around and do nothing until opportunity just shows up. This is why people just go to college, because they just settle for what gets set right in front of them. This is why people marry the wrong person, because they just settle for what gets set right in front of them.

A world full of billions of people now connects with instant communication. Billions of people with billions of needs.

- If you are a business owner, did you have any trouble receiving loans from investors or banks?

LOL.

I am currently negotiating a few transactions that will make me seven figures, and I'm doing it with companies on the Inc 5000, the fastest growing companies in the country.

I got myself in this position the old-school way, by relentlessly, diligently and piously investing tens of thousands of hours of my life to this game. I never - not once - had a problem getting loans, or investors.

Because I never got one. Every dollar I have ever used to grow myself and my businesses came from the hustle. The hustle fuels the hustle. If the hustle is worth fueling, it will fuel itself.

- If you could, would you go back to school, if so, why?

Fuxx no.

- Do you feel you have had to work harder because you do not possess a degree?

Man, I hope so. I hope I'm working harder than the next guy. I hope the other guy is sleeping while I'm working.

I hope the other guy is playing with his kids, while I'm working.

I hope the other guy is slacking off, relying on his pedigree, resting on his laurels, feeling pretentious because his Alma mater is the University of Ubermensch-Doesn't-Give-A-F*ck.

I hope the other guy spends his time watching football all day Saturday, and all day Sunday.

I hope that the other guy spends time at work events at night, and jokes about sports and TV shows by the water cooler.

I hope that the other guy wastes his time commuting to and from work.

I hope that the other guy thinks that he will learn how to sell, how to close, how to win, how to get the customer to sign on the line which is dotted, how to increase revenue, how to produce revenue, and how to enhance profit... I hope that the other guy thinks he will get all of that in a book or a classroom.

Thinking that going to business school makes you hustler is like playing the Street Fighter and then thinking you're a real life Ninja.

I like this thread. I'll try to get to the other questions later. :brb:

To answer the OP's question directly... how is my life without a college degree?

I don't have a Facebook page. I don't have a social media page with friends on it. I fool around with Instagram from time to time, and I really don't know any of my followers.

I don't have many friends, considering that friends are people that you know, like and trust. I simply don't have time to waste with most people. Most people aren't on my level. Most people aren't trying to get rich. Most people just want to live and die in the same state that they were born.
 

jazb

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university did very little for me professionally. do i regret it? absolutely not.

I have friends for life from college and had the time of my life. i grew up a lot and really found myself. yes it might be a few more years and a bit more debt, but i would never change it.

Bare in mind though that i'm from the UK, and when i went to university, it was significantly cheaper than the US, not to mention MUCH lower interest rates once i left...
 

Bila

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I hope that folks here will understand, from the discussion we are having, that education or having a degree is not the problem. It's the funding. Hence the urgent need to reform the educationnal sector in North America.
 

Vigilante

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You bring up a good point, and yes, I didn't address that at all in my post. in my case, when I graduated, I owed only 13k, which is nothing. I was making six figures within 6-7 years of graduating. I agree that if we are talking about having a shit load of debt, then it is a completely different story. It also depends on what you are actually studying and what your ROI is on that.

So I agree completely. In my case it was a no-brainer because I wasn't accumulating a lot of debt. And I completely agree about liberal arts degrees being bullshit. But if you want to be a software engineer, you need to have at least a bachelor's degree and it isn't a bad degree to have in the meantime (if you can do it without owing too much) while you figure out what to do fastlane-wise.

It is not just be accumulated debt though that you have to factor. It is the total cost paid for the education and all related costs, combined with the missed opportunity cost of getting beat in the workplace for that duration of time by others who have a several year gap on your lifetime earnings.

In nearly every case, the break even point somewhere between 12 to 20 years.

Are you working in a job right now that requires collegiate certification?
 

MattR82

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Hmm it's not just the states though. You leave university in Australia with upwards of 40k (aus) in debt pretty easily.

It seems pretty clear to me the business and finance degrees are among the worst. A friend of mine spent 5 years doing a finance degree to essentially do data entry for Macquarie Bank. Although he wasn't exactly a go getter.

What vigilante said about monopoly money is so true haha. I remember when I finally earned enough to have to start paying my 12k leftover debt back. What, you mean this wasn't free?!?! Haha. FFS young kids are getting pushed by family to get a MASSIVE debt at 18 years of age, for something they are probably only doing because they don't know what else to do, and are probably never going to use anyway! Or feel obliged to use it and are stuck in something they hate for ten years. I can't see anything good here... the most successful businessman I know who is around my age (early 30's) did essentially 3 degrees (med, law and int'l business) over 8 years at a highly expensive and exclusive private university, and his advice these days is DON'T GO. You won't learn anything you can't find out for yourself, or easily and cheaply hire someone for.

My advice to anyone I meet that says they MUST go to uni is to take some time, even if it's just a year to figure out what you really want to do at least.
 
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Ubermensch

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I hope that folks here will understand, from the discussion we are having, that education or having a degree is not the problem. It's the funding. Hence the urgent need to reform the educationnal sector in North America.

Survival of the fittest.
 

Cyriex

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I hope that folks here will understand, from the discussion we are having, that education or having a degree is not the problem. It's the funding. Hence the urgent need to reform the educationnal sector in North America.
Haha, amen. @Bila keep an eye on the site http://www.defaultnow.com which will address this issue within the week.

Thought I'd take a stab at @BlakeRVA "dropout" questions.
1. I didn't drop out. I took a leave. I'll probably finish after I have at least $10MM in change if for nothing else, to continue cxxxxxxxxxxx

2. No way. Wasn't learning squat compared to what I know now. Echoing other comments here. College prepares you to become a sheeple, even with the advent of the incubator initiatives mine was undertaking. Money better spent starting a company.
3. What I did is what I'm doing. A consulting business with my more immediate focus, a controversial eComm apparel business.
4. It was an Ivy, I thought it was just "the way" and started with the ambition of working on Wall Street. Wanted to put in 2-3 yrs in Investment Banking, gravitate to HF/PE/VC after that. Know a shit ton about investing already. My intro posts details more https://www.thefastlaneforum.com/co...live-in-a-van-in-nyc-and-read-mjs-book.63583/

Edited by Vigilante for language
 
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Vigilante

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I don't even have a high school degree, and life is good. Currently work as a auto detailer making $22 an hour which is more than some college graduates, and I freelance on the side.
 

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What's my life like…

Financially, I'm doing fine. Better than a lot of my peers I suppose. I'm not completely where I want to be, but I'm working on changing that. The thing is too I live in one of the most expensive cities in the world, where your money doesn't take you very far lol.

No I don't think I've had to work harder because I don't have a degree. In fact I think I'm kind of a lazy person who doesn't have to work very hard.

If I could, would I go back to school? Well it's funny you ask because actually I can and I am. But I'm going for a totally different reason than most people. I'm going because I want to indulge my scientific pursuits, and work in an environment with like-minded people. But this has nothing to do with money, it's only because I love science, and want to take on a challenge.

The good thing about being an entrepreneur/freelancer right now is that I'm not reliant on a degree for my livelihood. If I want to supposedly go to university, and decide to take a year off to climb mountains, I can do that. I'm so spontaneous about what I feel like doing sometimes I feel I don't know myself :p

When I take on clients, they ask if I have a degree, but in the end, they're more interested in if I'll do the thing that they need me to do. From my knowledge, I don't think I've ever not gotten a job because of degreelessness.

So if you want to go to college or university, that's totally your choice, but think about why you want to go and to what end your degree or even just experience will help you achieve. Don't be one of these people who say, "I need to get a degree because it's better for me," but actually have no idea what they're going to do with it or how it's going to help them. And then they get disappointed because they thought education would "help" them in some dubious way.

One final note, if you don't have a degree but still looking to make a lot of money, check out
https://www.thefastlaneforum.com/co...ith-no-degree-no-feedback-no-portfolio.58837/
 
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PedroG

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It is not just be accumulated debt though that you have to factor. It is the total cost paid for the education and all related costs, combined with the missed opportunity cost of getting beat in the workplace for that duration of time by others who have a several year gap on your lifetime earnings.

In nearly every case, the break even point somewhere between 12 to 20 years.

Are you working in a job right now that requires collegiate certification?

Yeah, I'm a software engineer. Have been for 13 years. You need at least a bachelor's degree. It's a good career and the pay is good for slow lane standards.
 

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