What are your thoughts on Morals?

[rocksolid]

In a previous thread I was asking about the legal issues of copying a product that I saw in another country. I think morals sort of became a side issue and I thought it would be an interesting discussion. People talk about having good morals but what does that really mean? At the end of the day I guess it’s up to you to decision if your morals are good or not. If you can sleep at night knowing whatever you did that others might consider bad karma then there is no issue.

Did the owners of Pepsi have bad morals? Did Steve Jobs or Mark Zuckerberg have bad morals? They all stole ideas and used that information to make themselves very rich while still remaining respected by most. They are even seen as visionaries.

If you had an opportunity to use an idea that you saw in another country knowing it would make you a large sum of money would you take it? And if you did take it does that mean you have bad morals?

Sure….. in a perfect world everybody respects one another and would never think of taking what is not there’s but……that’s not really the world we live in. I am interested in hearing everybody’s thoughts.

 

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[Marvin]

I wouldn't feel immoral taking an idea to better a business.

On the other hand, some are becoming extremely rich of of adult websites. Would y'all feel bad getting filthy rich off one?

 

[Gale4rc]

Steve Jobs & Mark Z. Stole ideas? lol

You're funny

 

[frieden70]

Did Steve Jobs or Mark Zuckerberg have bad morals? They all stole ideas and used that information to make themselves very rich while still remaining respected by most. They are even seen as visionaries.

I would argue that Jobs and Zuckerberg took ideas and made them better.

I mean, it's not like MySpace and Friendster didn't already exist. The concept of social networks had already been out and thriving and he just made it better. I don't remember the whole story with the twins he was working with but at the end of the day, Zuck was the one that went out there and F*cking executed. Ideas without execution don't mean shit.

Same thing with Jobs. He took ideas and concepts that already existed and made them better. It's not like smartphones didn't already exist, he just went out and completely disrupted the space with what is now the standard in mobile communication. He went out and kicked some a$$, executed and made a killing.

I don't see anything wrong with either of those things.

At the end of the day, I guess it really depends on how you are defining an "idea".

IMO, ideas aren't worth shit.

Everyone has ideas. I'm sure you can point to plenty of people that see products that they thought of and are like "whoa, that was my idea!". Great - but you didn't put everything on the line and go and work.

It's the execution that's actually worth something.

Now if there's an idea/product that's already out there, well I would have a really hard time just ripping someone off. I think that's F*cked and you should be thrown in jail if you do that.

But if you take an existing idea and make it better or somehow different, I don't see a problem with that.

That's like saying Burger King shouldn't exist because McDonald's already did.

It's the same concept, similar product but different, sort of...

Personally, I think some of the biggest and best opportunities exist in places where there's already a solution (especially one that people are willing to pay for) but you can go out and make it better and take some of that market.

Just my .02.

 

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[Jonleehacker]

Easy, if you have to ask, it's probably immoral

Morals are about your relationship to your own inner guidance system, so the fact that you have to ask, shows that something inside of you is not in alignment with what you are doing/thinking of doing. Therefore if you do it, or do more of it, you will only create more tension inside of you.

There is no such thing as getting away with something immoral, because you cannot lie to yourself. If you do something immoral, you will pay for it forever or until you set it straight through some kind of retribution within yourself. What ever advantage you think you might gain by doing something immoral (to you) will never be worth it, because the penalty will be paid everyday by a lack of peace inside of you.

 

[redshep]

It depends on the situation. If you hear of an idea, or see it in a magazine, etc.; it's fair game. Take the idea and amp it up, make it better. You don't know their systems, all you know is their market. Even if you tried to copy them, you'd be different.

But if you read about a business from someone directly involved, in a forum or worse a progress thread, then it's unethical, against the spirit of the community and just lazy. It may not be immoral, but it's not cool and you deserve what you get.

 

[Deki_mal]

good question. The last 2 posts pretty much nail it.

I think there is nothing wrong with trying to make your own version of an already existing business. For example, if you wanted to start a gym, it isn't stealing just because there are already tons of different gym franchises around. No one should own a monopoly, just know that if you are entering an already crowded marketplace that your product will be a lot harder to sell, it will need to be better in some way or there may not be a way to beat the same product that already has built a name and reputation.

On the other hand, stealing someone else's hard work through a recipe, name, brand, writing, or another kind of intellectual property is immoral imo. an example would be if burger king stole the recipe to McDonald's fries and started selling them under the name MacDonnell's. That is clearly trying to use someone else's brand name to trick people into buying a stolen product.

Also, morals are pretty much whatever you can justify to yourself in your own head, just keep in mind that if you act like a complete a-hole all the time less people are going to like you and it may be harder to achieve your goals when you need someone else's help

 

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[RogueInnovation]

Business is like math; if its easy you are doing it wrong.

Here would be my plan of action:
Extract the opportunity and ask how in your country it can be done differently and better.
Furthermore, talk to the customers, locate the pains, and understand the market. If you get swept up in the need of your market place it is unlikely you will even remotely copy or ripoff anyone else.

Don't get too excited, put your game face on and get to the truth you are trying to bury. Expose all the grubby little issues and BS, and create a smooth solution that considers the people it is designed to assist. Create a better value proposition than "I'm in x country and they have y business I can apply here theoretically" because assumptions make for bad foundations. It is imperative for your businesses that you establish if there is a viable business opportunity, and what it REALLY is (not just gloss over it).

Those companies that don't care and do no diligence are "You get what you pay for" companies, don't be that way.

If you do all that you should be starting off on better footing and feel great about your mission. And that is important for any company not just ethically speaking, but in terms of quality and design.


Btw, you sound tempted to ship poor design. Not a good sign.
Reel it back in, reinvent, try again.


I just ask what the best thing I can do for others is. For me its not about morals or shortcuts, its about doing the best I can. If you are cutting your potential to do good things SHORT by shortcutting the diligency of the process, then imo, you are wasting people's time.

Strive to make your wins as rich internally as you can, because its that inner feeling that you can spend on doing bigger and better things for others and yourself in the future, and that builds successful companies.

 

[stranger]

One of friends said; if you've heard a good idea from someone and could re-make it on %70, it's already your idea.

Moral has the different value for everyone.

 

[Formless]

Do you care because you do or because cool kids care?

 

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[ExecutionisKing]

IMO, ideas aren't worth shit.

Everyone has ideas. I'm sure you can point to plenty of people that see products that they thought of and are like "whoa, that was my idea!". Great - but you didn't put everything on the line and go and work.

It's the execution that's actually worth something.

X 10. This sums it up the idea/execution bit for me pretty well.
As MJ says, "ideas are nothing more than a neurological flatulence."

As for the question: I strongly believe in absolute morality.
I think people know though-if they're being honest with themselves-whether or not the intent of their action was to harm/deceive/hurt/destroy someone else's work, their reputation, or even just to anger them.

The "as long as you can sleep at night" phrase is funny, but it can't really be used as an indicator of morality.
The more things you do wrong, and sear your conscience with, the less it will bug you, even as your actions get progressively worse.

Especially when people have an "end justifies the means" mentality, I think people can rationalize quite a long list of their own actions to themselves and live with it. And the more they do, the easier it gets.

"Stealing ideas," if that's even possible, is one thing. Stealing the proven process to execute and replicate the idea is another.

That's wrong. You intend to profit by stealing someone else's research and actions. Big difference, IMO.

 

[stranger]

Howard Aiken said, "Don't worry about people stealing your ideas. If your ideas are any good, you'll have to ram them down people's throats."

 

[MJ DeMarco]

I wonder if the folks who invented the refrigerator had any morals. I mean a steel box with a block of ice in it worked fine for years.

 

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[ExecutionisKing]

Howard Aiken said, "Don't worry about people stealing your ideas. If your ideas are any good, you'll have to ram them down people's throats."

That's deep, I think. As in, if your ideas are good, like, brilliant-good, then they will be so far over most people's heads that you'll have to work to get everyone to accept them? Since they might be considered unorthodox, impossible, inefficient, not worth it, etc?

In that case, why do so many people get so up-in-arms about someone "stealing" their idea, if the idea is so far out there? Or is it the implementation of the idea (that someone thinks they thought of first) done so brilliantly, that it bugs them that someone else is making money off "their idea"?
Which really just boils down to someone wanting results without process...

I wonder if the folks who invented the refrigerator had any morals. I mean a steel box with a block of ice in it worked fine for years.

Ha, yea, I think how morals have been defined above is a tad skewed. But like you're saying, making a new product better based on an old idea that wasn't originally yours can't be immoral... otherwise we have a LOT of inventors/products that will be in trouble...

Improvement is just a product/effect of technology, so I think improving on products you didn’t invent and making them more useful is just continued invention/innovation, no?
Stealing a recipe is one thing, Looking at a pair of sunglasses and then launching your own brand can’t honestly be called an immoral theft of idea...