This is a discussion that needs to be started...

[^eagle^]

Contrary to popular belief banks do not shell out 9X what they have in what at least we know as currency. The central premise behind the claims in movies like zeitgist are flawed. They try to mix the different types of money together.

Im not for central banking per say but banks do not loan out moneys on deposit. They are a liability. Not an asset. Each commercial bank has a "second tier" money deposited in the central bank. The central banks job is to shuttle the deposits between the banks as their reserves get stronger or weaker. If they run out of money, that is if the consumers pull more money out of the commercial banks than they have in reserve the central bank either contracts credit making money harder to get or prints more "second tier money" There are actually four tiers but I wont get into that for the sake of trying to keep it simple.

COMMERCIAL banks do Not make loans on deposits because deposits are not assets to a bank.

Now the bad part about central banking is that if the Central bank prints more money (they just print electronically out of thin air) The value of the dollar (tier 1) money goes down. So it takes more of our money to buy the things we need and creates a hidden tax. Thats the part I dont like.


I got sucked into zeigist and the money masters and all that a year or so ago. then I relied on real research instead of a bunch of you tube videos and found out the truth.

Complete waste of time.

You want to beat the banks? Join a credit Union. If everyone did that it would de centralize the whole system and it would fail. (tier II and up) but the tier I money would remain intact.

The venus project is such a bunch of pie in the sky baloney I wanted to puke. I already figured out in His Utopia someone would come along and create a "convenience "market with credits and debits and ruin the whole thing.

If you want to get into the whole conspiracy thing at least try to make some money off of it.

I do like the money masters guy and his theory about controlling supply of a debt free money. It makes the most sense. the reason that is rejected is that you cant make money controlling the supply of it. bANKS MAKE A KILLING OFF THESE SWAPS AND LOANS. they are not going to give that up even if we print tens trillion more dollars of debt.

 

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[Anon3587x]

I am all for sustainable societies.

To me the concept is no different than the billion dollar business plan you just wrote up. Sometimes something looks great on paper but translates horribly into reality. Our current society only sucks when you aren't above 30% of everyone else, and even then, you have the opportunity to climb to the top if you put in the work.

Society only returns to you the value in which you provided for it. I cannot think of a better system than that.

 

[RyanG]

actors, coaches, anchor men, musicians, and financial executives create the value in society to justify those salaries?

 

[Anon3587x]

actors, coaches, anchor men, musicians, and financial executives create the value in society to justify those salaries?

Their value is the brands they created for themselves, which takes years. They do nothing that you couldn't do yourself.

 

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[77startup]

I plan on stocking men's socks and underwear. That way when everyone loses their shirt I'll be the most popular guy on the block.

 

[GlobalWealth]

I am perfectly fine with being prepared, but don't let it consume your life.

This is the most rational response yet.

Obviously we are living in very uncertain economic times and it makes a lot of sense to hedge yourself and be prepared, but the world will continue to spin, people will continue to eat, drink, work and play which means there will always be opportunities for entrepreneurs and investors to provide value.

So what if the USD dies? I highly doubt we will be trading chickens for wheat at the market. Markets have an uncanny ability of working themselves out, and this is always accomplished by innovative and creative entrepreneurs.

So by all means, hedge your financial situation with gold. Three years ago no one thought gold would hit $1000/oz. Right now the only reason its not over $2000/oz is market manipulation (don't believe me? Check the history of margin increases on precious metals at the CME over the past year).

Stock up on canned foods, guns and ammo. Plant a garden. Do whatever you think is best for you. But don't forget to get out of the house and provide value in the market place or you will find the next 5-10-20 years very dull and unfulfilled.

As a side note, I personally agree with much of what you say and many people are stuck with their head in the sand trying to not see and hear what is all around them. But I don't want to live my life in fear for the next 20 years waiting for the hammer to drop either. I am out living life to the fullest, running my businesses, traveling, spending time with family and friends, and generally living an experience filled life every day.

I hope you do the same. Life's too short to live in fear.

 

[GlobalWealth]

it would involve conditioning humans to not be so self-interested

That would be against human nature and completely irrational. We are all self-interested as we should be.

That doesn't mean we cannot care for another person, but it does mean that ultimately we value ourselves the most.

The socialist/communist agenda is 'for the common good', or effectively putting the good of the community above one's own rational self-interest.

There's a reason this doesn't work, its against human nature.

 

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[Likwid24]

actors, coaches, anchor men, musicians, and financial executives create the value in society to justify those salaries?

Yes they absolutely create enough value in society to justify their salaries. Actors and musicians provide entertainment which is necessary to keep most of us sane. Without them, what would the world be like???

Coaches and sports stars also provide entertainment for us. Most coaches were former players. That means that they started playing sports as a child. Went to college. Made it to the pros. The whole time putting in crazy amount of hours and hard work. Then play out their career which, depending on the sport, can be anywhere from 5-20 years. By the time they become a coach, 40-50 years have passed. They don't deserve a decent salary after all those years of really hard work???? Not to mention, imagine dealing with all these 21 year old hot shots fresh out of college. That's a job in itself.

Financial Executives. That's a touchy subject. But just like MJ says in his book. They don't start out as an executive. They go through college and put 25+ years of work, busting their asses, working longer hours as the years go on, just to get to the top. You mean to tell me that after all those years, when they finally get to the top, they don't deserve to get paid??? Maybe some of their salaries are a little ridiculous, but it's not like someone just put them there after a few days on the job. Most top execs are well into their 50's.

I'm not sure about anchormen. I don't know their salaries but I'm sure they work just as hard.

You get the point. Each of these people weren't born into their situations. It took years and years of really hard work. 95% of the people in this world would never even think about working as hard and long at something as these people had. I think they absolutely deserve what they get. Well except Seth Rogan, I think he's the most overrated actor out there. LOL

 

[Graves]

actors, coaches, anchor men, musicians, [...] create the value in society to justify those salaries?

Well, where do you think the money's coming from ? Did they steal it ?

 

[^eagle^]

ok i'm out of this discussion - you're basically just stating everything that peter schiff/ron paul/doom and gloomers say and predictably as i said above: "you're just buying into hype - of course there are historical metrics that your metals dealer will try to sell you on."

so paper books were used for a long time too - does that mean that amazon is lying to us when they say ebooks are outselling paper books (referring to the copper vs gold/silver argument based on historical nonsense)

in fact, i agree with a lot of what schiff/paul say but they go overboard on things like this.

I gave you the real other side of the argument.

This is what the doom and gloomers sell:
[bla bla bla....inflation explained like a 6th grader] therefore be scared and buy our shiny metals or die! (buy from our dealers though - jesus personally recommends them)

lmfao. I dumped my gold at $1900 and made 20%.

 

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[bernieshawn]

If there is going to be a total collapse and you want to be the most prepared, go buy a farm.

Then, build a state-of-the-art security system around it.

Being half-serious here.

 

[lleone]

There are basically going to be 2 scenarios. Either you're right or you're wrong.
The problem is that when you take a huge position in gold or silver and you end up being wrong, your wealth will be severely reduced or essentially wiped out. If you're right then you will probably have to work like hell to keep your wealth. I don't disagree that gold and/or other precious metals should be part of a portfolio, but not to the levels you're suggesting. You're taking a hugh risk if you're wrong since you're putting all your eggs in one basket.

 

[dnice]

Ryan, keep preparing. I have been preparing for a few years now. I have the food, water, guns, ammo, silver, farmland, heirloom seeds, off-road truck that I have never driven off-road (F-150 Raptor :smug2, etc. all in place. At first I did believe that a total collapse was coming, which was why I began preparing. But after realizing that the chance of a total collapse happening is kind of small I'm now preparing for more personal tragedies such as natural disasters and loss of income, which happen more often. Being prepared for these types of situations makes more sense. People may think your paranoid but it really does not matter what anyone thinks. When something happens your friends and family will come to you for help.

Now after reading MJ's book, my focus is in building a fastlane business but I still continue to make sure I am prepared.

Nothing may ever happen but knowing my family and I are prepared helps me sleep better at night.

Absolutely man. People can take anything overboard and always tend to. Everything in moderation.

I still have a life, 2 jobs, girls, and friends...but this is something that needs action to be taken before hand -- even if it's minor planning and thinking. And if everyone writes it off then when it happens, everyone will be rushing to get what's left. The gold and silver is a personal thing, for a secure future and to take care of your family.

What really needs to be done is a shift in the paradigm of people stuck on a system that generations have seen their whole lifetime -- but is obviously very broken and doing more harm then good.

 

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[RyanG]

Yes they absolutely create enough value in society to justify their salaries. Actors and musicians provide entertainment which is necessary to keep most of us sane. Without them, what would the world be like???

You get the point. Each of these people weren't born into their situations. It took years and years of really hard work. 95% of the people in this world would never even think about working as hard and long at something as these people had. I think they absolutely deserve what they get. Well except Seth Rogan, I think he's the most overrated actor out there. LOL

I agree with you about entertainment being important. I work in Hollywood, right in the heart of that industry -- and it is my passion. With that said, in our world, with everything that is going on, entertainment (ESPECIALLY THE NEWS) is a huge distraction. Especially the way it is being used. To clarify, when I said sports coaches, actors, anchormen, and execs -- I meant people that are getting 2M-10M a year doing those jobs.

Another thing to clarify is, by adding value to society, I don't mean how hard they work or how much time they put into it. Garbage men, farmers, & construction workers work 100 times harder and longer -- for a fraction of the pay, and they contribute a lot more value to society. Just not in a lucrative way. Doctors don't even get paid that, unless they're giving girls fake tits & bigger lips.

 

[Anon3587x]

Another thing to clarify is, by adding value to society, I don't mean how hard they work or how much time they put into it. Garbage men, farmers, & construction workers work 100 times harder and longer -- for a fraction of the pay, and they contribute a lot more value to society. Just not in a lucrative way. Doctors don't even get paid that, unless they're giving girls fake tits & bigger lips.

The wealthiest people I know work in agriculture.

All those people who work 'harder and longer' chose that line of work knowing they would be compensated accordingly. Who is to say a construction worker works longer and harder than a professional/college football coach? I know many of those guys work 90+ hours a week.

You have the power to choose your own line of work knowing what it does and doesn't offer. The concept is an old one, but very absent in today's generations; it's called SELF RESPONSIBILITY.

 

[RyanG]

. There's a reason this doesn't work, its against human nature.

If we lived in a completely different system, some alternate chain of events brought us to some other societal structure -- and you asked people...

"What do you feel about working at least 40 hrs a week, mon-fri. You can have 2 free days on the weekend to do whatever you want. We'll really just pay you just enough so you can get by and take care of your bills. If for any reason you can't quite make enough or want to go to school, which is disgustingly overpriced and not effected by inflation -- we'll lend you the money you need and you can pay us back with interest over time. We'll especially give you the money if you probably can't pay us back, because we will keep track of this with something called credit and own you until you pay us."

Would people pick this as a way to live? But somehow it is how people are living. 90% of the population are followers and need to be told how to do things -- eventually it will be what is the status quo. This has been done negatively for hundreds of years. Soon we will have the chance to do it for a positive outcome. It is possible.

Again, if I seem to have come off paranoid or going to an extreme, that is not what I meant -- and not how I am about this; I work 2 jobs I love and wake up everyday excited; I also have my business and personal entrepreneurial goals; and I go out and enjoy life in LA. I definitely never said anything about putting everything into gold and silver. But it is important and the earlier you get thinking about it for a head start the more time you have to ensure that you'll make it through and the people you care about will be able to as well. This was a discussion I wanted to start, for the people that can intelligently oppose it or decide to do their own research with an open mind. Not start mud slinging and responding emotionally. Jokes and posting pictures just prove that you don't have anything real to say on this.

 

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[RyanG]

I don't see why you came to a boot strapping entrepreneur forum to vent your frustrations about 'inequalities'? [/B]

I'm not venting. Just pointing out that compensation is far from a manifestation of the value that you give to society. It is monetary compensation of how much you feed into a system that is circulates to a small percentage. Capitalism is supposed to let losers lose and winners win. But we have hedge funds like LTCM that get to a point where they are too big to fail, our capitalistic government won't allow it.

 

[Anon3587x]

Like I said before, you need to take a break from the youtube videos.

You just briefly summarized what it is to apply leverage.

Does gravity become upset when somebody uses a plank to move a huge boulder?

Our reality rewards those who apply leverage to their benefit. Stop thinking negatively of people who apply leverage.

 

[GlobalWealth]

LTCM that get to a point where they are too big to fail, our capitalistic government won't allow it

LTCM failed horribly and was crushed.

 

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[Likwid24]

You NEED to RELAX and ENJOY LIFE

 

[RyanG]

LTCM failed horribly and was crushed.

There was a mutli billion dollar bailout somewhere in between that happening.

 

[BrandonL]

Just pointing out that compensation is far from a manifestation of the value that you give to society.

@RyanG

That is a very good point. I would modify that statement by saying compensation can SOMETIMES be far from a manifestation of the value that you give to society, because sometimes compensation is in direct proportion to the value you give to society.

But you presented a very good point, a truth that I have realized over time. Many people become very wealthy doing things that do add value, but much less value than other activities that add greater value with lower compensation.

Depending on your definition of value, entertainers may not be included in the highly paid group that get highly compensated for adding "less value" because many people place a high value on entertainment in their lives. So in essence, many of them are adding a lot of value.

@bateati

I'm pretty much sold that leverage is the main key over anything else when it comes to building wealth, whatever the form of leverage. It's a concept that I just can't see anything else being more important.

Brandon

 

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[roc]

LOL, some good info about minerals. However you overlook one thing China needs US, and depends on US. China is great right now because they are paying people a dollar a day to work. People in China aren't stupid they are going to realize they are getting overworked for nothing, plus unions have not taken hold yet.

AND since you got me on a rant the YUAN is a terrible currency! China is notoriously known for artificially controlling the price of the currency.

RANT OFF, and as someone else said this is not the first recession this country has gone through. People need to relax.

 

[GlobalWealth]

There was a mutli billion dollar bailout somewhere in between that happening.

My memory is a bit fuzzy here, but if I recall correctly the bailout was handled by the banks that were already on the hook. No govt funds.

The initial partners were left with nothing. Many of them even had to work out the liquidation with little or no pay.

 

[rthconsultants]

lets be clear

I think it is very wise to be concerned with our nation's currency and economic plight; to that end I applaud. We must be careful however, not to propagate the conjecture.

Remember the old saying, "it isn't a revolution until enough people say it is".

Lets get clear here, hyperinflation, in the most extreme sense, is rapid and extreme inflation of a nation's currency which inevitably results in a 100% devaluation of a nation's currency by all debtors of that nation. In other words, a billion dollars wouldn't buy a hamburger.

Is it possible in the US? Sure. Anything is possible, but it would mean that nation's around the world would have to lose all faith in the future earning potential of the US. Yes, the US is and has been going through growing pains - but we still have strong earning power!

Take Iceland as an example of what real Hyperinflation "looks" like.

What I think is more likely to happen in the US is double digit inflation hike over the next 3 to 5 years. We haven't seen that since the late 70's / early 80's.

Anywho, my two sense.

Thanks,

Ryan

 

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[Rickson9]

Perhaps one should take some time to think about the entrepreneurs behind the CASH FOR GOLD businesses before deciding on whether to buy or sell gold.

 

[rthconsultants]

Perhaps one should take some time to think about the entrepreneurs behind the CASH FOR GOLD businesses before deciding on whether to buy or sell gold.

Rickson9 highlights an excellent point with CASH FOR GOLD companies. Are all these companies buying up gold because some mysterious derelict of the Illuminate has given these business owners the impression that the US is headed for a currency disaster and they should buy up gold?

Or, are these companies ran by fastlane entrepreneurs who have recognized opportunity and capitalized on a physiological shift in the mind of John Q. Consumer?

Mine isn't to say what the real motive for these companies are but a reminder that just because you see a heard of cows doesn't mean there is safety in the heard - that heard may just be headed to the slaughter house.

As always, read yourself, research yourself, trust no one and only believe in results not vocal garbage.

Thanks,

Ryan

 

[RyanG]

Perhaps one should take some time to think about the entrepreneurs behind the CASH FOR GOLD businesses before deciding on whether to buy or sell gold.

I've had many long talks with Mike Maloney.

 

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[RyanG]

Great song by Sage Francis. Lyrics are below... a lot of good points that go with what we're talking about.



Stroll through OC BOSTON w/ Sage Francis !


I've seen a monkey evolve into a man
I've seen a man devolve into a monkey
I've seen a junkie redeem himself with help
I've seen a wealthy man melt into the snow and blow his credit on a decongestant
The dyslexics breathe easy
The people in the top tax bracket just keep looking for freebies
Thumbing their noses at those in need of handouts
I'm talkin' panhandlers with secondhand clothes, living hand to mouth
Camping out on Capitol Hill
The fat cats are still insisting reparations be a jagged little pill
Today there's free vaccinations at the walk-in clinic
If you're lucky, you won't just be a guinea pig
Call me a cynic
I find it interesting how certain epidemics spread
More specifically – where they don't and who isn't affected
Yeah, I'm infected with a curious nature
The welcome mat said, "God bless this home," not "God damn thy neighbor"
They can repeat history but can't recycle paper
They don't see the forest or the trees, just skyscrapers
Towels of Babel in a town full of cattle
When I question brand loyalty, the crowd is bedazzled
But I'll never be hoodwinked, I'm mindful of the footprints
The shape of the hoof, the way the path in the wood splits
The author of the book, the origin of the crucifix
The waitress looking for tips and the place where the cook spits
This is where I was when the bomb dropped
Hiding from the uninvited onslaught
I've seen people who don't believe in sleep count sheep
With calculators that double as alarm clocks
From Noah's Ark all the way to Rosa Parks
To black folk pushing white agendas inside of an office with flow charts
Technology ain't shit, we feed off the fruit
When I stuff leaves of absence in my briefcase, follow suit
Spill the liquid from your double fisted escapade
Kill kids with the drunken misfits in your Escalade
It's gruel for the food fight and foreign aid
Bream ‘em down and build ‘em back up with what you throw away
Administering band aids on amputated limbs
Kissing ‘em with air raids, and your lips gave ‘em infections
Too many closed doors led to back drafts
Now the spring edition of fashion catalogues feature gasmasks
How becoming on these lanky models
They can't look truth in the mirror without a pair of safety goggles
Hold the bobble head, insert the feeding tube
Even if they stop breathing, make sure they keep eating food
Do the Schiavo
Mouth opened wide like a perverse psycho circus side show
Forgive me not, my patterns stay impartial to apologies
Despite a polite side of mine that says, "I'm so sorry"
Adding flame infinitum for your eternal fuel tank
My higher power doesn't need to be thanked
Thanks anyway, that's from him to me to you
I don't mind being the middle man, someday I might need one, too

I'm at the fire
Where are you?
I'm at the fire
Where the hell are you?

I've seen a man devolve into a monkey
I've seen a monkey evolve into a man
I've seen it all, upside down, in-between, inside out
It's neither here nor there, hoofprints in the sand
I've fallen head first into the pit of my stomach
Taught to trust my gut, got no trust in the gutless
Save some hope for the hopeless, but I won't show it
Shoot my load in an opus, now it's an open casket
Going to Hades in a hand basket
Holding onto a dream, but lately we can't grasp it
There's been too much murder and not enough martyr
Why is it no one else wants to impress Jodie Foster?

[x3:]
I'm at the fire
We're at the fire
Where are you? Where are you?

You can't have revolution without evolution, huh?
You can't have evolution without velution, huh?
You can't have velution without elution, huh?
You can't have elution without lution, huh?
You can't have lution without ution, huh?
You can't have ution without tion, huh?
You can't have tion without ion, huh?
You can't have ion without on, huh?
You can't have on without n, huh?

Seriously I know that you pray when the chips are down
But act different when there are atheists around
Have suspicions that make you think you'll drown
All alone in the middle of a crowd
I'd be a liar if I said I never had to beg
Doubled over with my knees bent touching my head
Stuck in a bed, dealing with all of these evil visions
Running from the dead in a fetal position
Needing assistance from a nurse
She said, "Tell me where it hurts"
These words are gonna make my belly burst
So I mentally revert to all the enemies I've cursed
Running through my memories in reverse
I said bring that beat back, man, bring that beat back
A flash ain't enough time for me to recap
I'm a bastard sometimes, don't think I don't see that
Laughing at the dumb, blind, the deaf to the knee slaps
Cracking punch lines for the sake of some green stacks
Passion for the rhyme can be cheapened by feedback
I shut my eyes and proceed to go dream catch
But a troubled mind can't seem to fall asleep fast
I cut my ties like the way that a fiend acts
Go into overdrive and get caught in a speed trap

 

[Rawr]

Ryan..you are young easily inspired and think the world is full of mysteries.. it's ok this is called adolescence and it will pass when reality comes more into focus. I know this because I've been there too.

In fact your Venus project, which I am sure you are excited very much about, was about an hour drive from where I lived - my friends visited it and the main guy behind it.. do you know what he has there? A bunch of swamp
land. "If we only had 500 million to build the machines" well..you don't.


You can worry about the world or you can worry about YOUR world. Reality always wins in the end, unless you hop on happy pills and the bottle - and reality is - look around, and imagine yourself from what other people around you see you as. Look at the mirror, this is who they see every day, your own voice sounds different to them. They don't lie to themselves about your abilities to "easily open a business/become a music producer/ pro blogger" if only "there was a shot given by someone"

It's your life, it's right here, it is YOU, now. Worry about that. How do you want to live it? What would you like to arrive at in 5-10 years? What excites you.

Those should be the main questions on your mind right now. Forget about the "world" problems, they are much much bigger than you and outside your control


btw Broken Wings is my favorite Sage Francis song

Cheers