The Toxic World of Self-Help (Video)

[Kevin88660]

Well..Maybe someone should just create a course on “how to take actions in things that you want to do?”

 

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[Noo]

Well..Maybe someone should just create a course on “how to take actions in things that you want to do?”

A coaching business?

I mean it's the only thing I can think of without being contradictory in itself

(jk) Maybe someone should just create a course on how to create a course on how to take action.

 

[Kevin88660]

A coaching business?

I mean it's the only thing I can think of without being contradictory in itself

(jk) Maybe someone should just create a course on how to create a course on how to take action.

Whatever that works. Course or service.

Service-A virtual sergeant that shouts at you and call you everyday to check that you have done what you wanted to finish.

Course-How to visualize and convince yourself that you will burn in hell if you fail to finish your to finish your daily to do list.

 

[Black_Dragon43]

Yeah this one is catchy but it's a bit off the mark in my opinion.

@Valier - you will get a LOT OF PRAISE for videos like this, just a heads up. People LOVE to nit-pick successful people and find reasons why they are morally superior.

Let me ask you, if I write an ad for an online course on gardening, and my copy is so convincing that you decide to buy the course even though you HATE gardening... am I in the wrong? If three months go by after starting my course and you haven't put down any soil or planted anything... am I a scammer?

The reason these people say "you have to do the work" is because it's true. If you're buying an online course, you have to do the work.

Occasionally you'll find people that offer "done for you" services as well as online courses. Trust me, they are FAR more expensive than the online course.

It might be $5,000 for the online program. It's probably $50,000 for the done-for-you.

Why? Because doing the work is where the GOLD is.

Most people that buy online courses don't want to do the work because they don't give a crap about the work.

OK I'm beating a dead horse at this point lol. Carry on.

The thing with the gurus imo is also that they sell you on the idea that the course or whatever is enough to get the results. That's why they can charge $10K as Tai Lopez does. He basically convinces you that the course is enough, your work is not needed.

However, for every guru that does that, you will almost always find smaller providers who don't, who create their courses with an educational approach, rather than buy this and have an avalanche of money fall on your head point of view. I don't know all niches, but for example in my niche (I sell a course on sales funnels), I know that there are providers who charge 10-50x what I charge because they sell you on the dream of making the money, without telling you that you'll actually need to do some work, and apply the knowledge to get there. Even if their courses suck, people still buy into the dream.

So imo, you should always be weary if someone markets buying information and knowledge to you as being the equivalent to having the result. As Derek Sivers said "If more information was the answer, then we'd all be billionaires with perfect abs".

 

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[peterb0yd]

I agree with this for the most part... except this industry in particular is something much bigger than just convincing sales copy.

The video touches on it in broad strokes, but there is an entire rabbit hole of what can essentially be labelled as a pyramid scheme, cult-like communities, and piles upon piles of debt caused by some of the "fake gurus" mentioned in this video.

If you ever get the chance, check out Coffeezilla's videos on these guys. Here is a particularly interesting video where he interviews a Dan Lok student:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4VDiM_PMmZA&t=2s


Is it really just convincing sales copy to be encouraging people to finance their $2000 course and labelling it as "essentially free" like John Crestani did in his webinar?

Is it really just effective marketing when they spend the first 30-45 minutes of the webinar telling their audience how "easy" it is, and only spare a momentary few seconds to say "you have to put in the work though" (a sentence that will very likely fly above the audience's head).

Is it really just an online course teaching you "affiliate marketing" when they portray it as a lifestyle product, and as though there is a high-chance of success when taking their courses (despite their success rates almost definitely being sub 5%)?

Isn't it a little fishy that so many of the "students" that come out of these courses just end up selling the course to other people for a commission?

I'm all for effective marketing strategies, and online education. Those were not the issue.

But when you really assess the tactics that these "fake gurus" use, it becomes incredibly predatory on people's insecurities - I highly encourage you to watch a webinar from either Kevin David, or John Crestani and tell me if it's just effective sales copy.

And here’s another video of a BBC investigation into Samuel Leeds after an ex-solider killed himself after going into debt for one of Leeds’ “programs”.

View: https://youtu.be/eAmYaAYUnc8


There's more than meets the eye with this industry - having done so much research for this video and going through all of these webinars, that I can assure you!

Yeah I agree, there are people in the internet marketing industry doing really shady things. There are people like this in all industries though.

However, in your video, you made it seem as if ALL of these guys offering high-ticket online programs are scams. It might surprise you that some of these programs can be immensely helpful if they're targeted to your situation, even if they're expensive.

For instance, you targeted Sam Ovens in the video. He looks like a scammer, FEELS like a scammer, but creates fantastic content and has impressive case studies. He started a software company in his early twenties, sold his equity several years later, and then created the consulting accelerator program afterward. I personally know someone that has profited greatly from his program. He even has in-depth interviews with his customers on YouTube. The guy I know is in one of his YT case studies! The dude puts out more value in his free YT videos than most other internet marketers put in their paid programs.

I only know a little about Dan Lok and I know nothing about the Sam Leeds guy. I've seen some of Dan Lok's content on YouTube which does have good advice, similar to advice talked about in MJ's books. But, it's pretty basic for the most part and not really related to what I'm working on.

Anyway man, I get where you're coming from. I've felt the same way before. I think you'll need to make an investment in one of the courses or events that really aligns with you. Only then will you understand that a lot of these guys are legit!

Don't let a few bad apples spoil the bunch as they say.

 

[Voice Angel]

Self-help is just one piece of the "life process" puzzle.
Consuming self-help products can inspire...but nothing transformative happens without connecting it to process, action and production.
And because we are primarily a society of consumers who relate production to "work", many don't or won't take the next step from consuming these to implementing them.

And of course, there is the ethical question of so-called gurus who employ sleazy marketing or promise nebulous results.

Like all things, we consumers who enjoy self-help have to use common sense when deciding how to apply it into our lives...

Are we using it for entertainment? Then consumption alone is fine.
Do we think it will help us change our lives? Then connecting it to action is inescapable.

 

[Guest1413tpa]

Awesome job @Valier. I had a feeling you were on this forum haha.

second this, thanks for introducing me to TMF /Unscripted /This forum!

 

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[Here]

Whatever that works. Course or service.

Service-A virtual sergeant that shouts at you and call you everyday to check that you have done what you wanted to finish.

Course-How to visualize and convince yourself that you will burn in hell if you fail to finish your to finish your daily to do list.

lol. Look up Marisa Murgatroyd, I'm taking her course on how to use gamification to get people to actually complete your course and take action. Nerd Fitness uses the gamification model and it's the only course that I found easy to work through. I don't love Marisa's style but I'm a big fan of the way she uses gamification and accountability to actually get people to do the work.

All big-ticket courses advertise themselves with testimonials. And often, those testimonials are from folks who had way more hand-holding than you or I would get after purchasing the course. Either they bought into a higher-level mentoring package, or they were in the beta group and got more personalized attention that way.

 

[Anavore]

It's easy to point fingers, isn't it?

There are far more variables that are missing here.

But I agree with the opinion of putting the information into work. Not only that, but I also understand that no two persons are identical. Whether it's in their status, financial situation, or natural talents.

I'm advocating a minimalistic approach to self-help. Because one can get a lot of information. A lot of options. A lot of tools to do, essentially, the same thing. Which is helping themselves.

Example:

If you want to improve yourself in the social sphere, one book is enough. Read it, and re-read it until you master all its principles.

You don't have to keep a library about the subject.

You're just human. As much you'd like to learn everything there's to know about the subject, and as much as this information is indeed available, your mind can't contain it.

After all, all you really need (in reality) is a few tools and strategies to improve your social life.

 

[Kevin88660]

lol. Look up Marisa Murgatroyd, I'm taking her course on how to use gamification to get people to actually complete your course and take action. Nerd Fitness uses the gamification model and it's the only course that I found easy to work through. I don't love Marisa's style but I'm a big fan of the way she uses gamification and accountability to actually get people to do the work.

All big-ticket courses advertise themselves with testimonials. And often, those testimonials are from folks who had way more hand-holding than you or I would get after purchasing the course. Either they bought into a higher-level mentoring package, or they were in the beta group and got more personalized attention that way.

Interesting I will look into this.

 

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[daftypunk]

This is a fantastic point. The reason I was getting nowhere was because I was doing things that didn't align with my goals and personality.

It took a lot of reflection to understand a better path for me. Once the path is clearer, then you know what to invest in.

If you're starting a social media agency then taking Tai Lopez' social media online course is probably a GOOD IDEA. If you don't give a crap about social media, but just want to make money or build a personal brand, it's most definitely a REALLY BAD IDEA.

Not all online courses are scammy, even if the creators use marketing tactics that feel scammy.

Grant Cardone has a bunch of highly valuable sales courses. Does it make sense for someone that likes sales but hates Grant's personality to buy his courses? NO!

It all depends on what aligns with the individual's goals and personality.

Not necessarily. Sometimes we have to do things we don't like.
If someone doesn't like Grant' course, but he is providing very valuable,actionable advice they should take the course. It will prove beneficial in the long run, even if you hate the guy right now.

 

[Voice Angel]

lol. Look up Marisa Murgatroyd, I'm taking her course on how to use gamification to get people to actually complete your course and take action. Nerd Fitness uses the gamification model and it's the only course that I found easy to work through. I don't love Marisa's style but I'm a big fan of the way she uses gamification and accountability to actually get people to do the work.

All big-ticket courses advertise themselves with testimonials. And often, those testimonials are from folks who had way more hand-holding than you or I would get after purchasing the course. Either they bought into a higher-level mentoring package, or they were in the beta group and got more personalized attention that way.

I took Marisa's course.

It was great in terms of gamifying.

But...

I thought the cost was quite high.
There was just TOO much to watch - not in terms of the process (which I love) - but the videos, live calls, Q&A and additional video messages via email seemed ENDLESS.

The training videos could have been summarized into a fraction of what they were, without all the extra filming and pictures.
You get introduced from Module 1 to her JV partners - and from there into their funnels.

Also - her course is part of her funnel to her live in-person session where they sell the coaching.

It's probably one of the better courses I've taken in terms of content but I felt I wasted too much time on the extras.

 

[drleeds]

If you ever get the chance, check out Coffeezilla's videos on these guys. Here is a particularly interesting video where he interviews a Dan Lok student:

It's too bad about Dan Lok. I enjoyed the FU Money audiobook. The most useful part was to encourage students of marketing to study the ads in their inbox instead of throwing them away.

 

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[James Klymus]

I came across this video today, its got over 1.6 million views! Talk about creating a productocracy and word getting around via word of mouth. And MJ wasn't even aware that he made this video until someone pointed it out to him. MJ certainly practices what he preaches! Hopefully that video has brought a bunch of new people into the community.