The real Detroit

[Guest3722A]

This is a video of a shootout that occurred last week in a Detroit Police precinct. It's graphic and not for the faint at heart. It's disgusting and really gives an insight into the minds of the animals that roam free around here.

Detroit is the armpit of the nation and I'd really like to know how on earth can people like this be stopped?

[video]http://www.freep.com/videonetwork/767998473001/Detroit-police-video-of-precinct-shoot-out[/video]

 

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[MJ DeMarco]

Yikes, nothing like you see on TV. It looks like the gunman got shot and took 10 seconds to react and fall. Some scary stuff...

 

[Robert Francis]

Yikes, nothing like you see on TV. It looks like the gunman got shot and took 10 seconds to react and fall. Some scary stuff...

Makes you think of all of those news stories where many assumed the cops were OBVIOUSLY out of line when they pulled the trigger on a potential bad guy more than once.

If I were a cop and knew (based on friends having been killed by a perp AFTER being shot already) the reality of these types of situations...I'd probably be inclined to just keep pulling the trigger till I was empty.

 

[Icy]

Makes you think of all of those news stories where many assumed the cops were OBVIOUSLY out of line when they pulled the trigger on a potential bad guy more than once.

It's makes for an interesting story. Nothing more. It's assumed cops do the right thing 100% of the time, and it's not interesting to hear when they do. Obviously it's not a reasonable expectation at all - especially when your life is on the line - but that's just kind of how it is. It's easy to criticize others decisions once something is over, you have the value of re-watching it, and not worrying about your life.

 

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[Robert Francis]

Ironically, I've (once again) managed to take positions on both sides of the fence.

I believe there's way too much bad stuff going on, relative to the growth and aggressiveness of the "police state" these days. I have much suspicion of the establishment of law enforcement, these days.

But this doesn't reflect my opinion of the actual police men and women. I'm sure, in general, they are good/bad at exactly the same ratio as the rest of society.

I was just responding to MJ's statement about it being nothing like you see in movies/TV.

I could never take the pressure of being a police officer; I'd be shooting everyone and everything within a few weeks.

On a semi-related and (I think) interesting note:

For a few weeks, after watching that Wikileaks video of the American soldiers in the chopper shooting (what appeared to be) civilians, I was outraged and disgusted.

At some point, though, I stumbled on an article that gave greater context to the situation and I was turned (almost 180 degrees) to the opposite opinion.

When you understand the circumstances and pressures that led up to the situation in any given video, you are less likely to believe that "Video can't lie."

Didn't one artist say something like "The best art is a lie that tells the truth?"

I think, many times, these videos are the opposite...they are true, but still, somehow, tell a lie.

 

[Guest3722A]

It's makes for an interesting story. Nothing more. It's assumed cops do the right thing 100% of the time, and it's not interesting to hear when they do. Obviously it's not a reasonable expectation at all - especially when your life is on the line - but that's just kind of how it is. It's easy to criticize others decisions once something is over, you have the value of re-watching it, and not worrying about your life.

I've known a Detroit officer who literally would say that when she heard the shooting coming from one direction, she would run as far away as she could in another direction as they were just collecting a paycheck. This particular officer definitely had some shadows that I knew of.

 

[Guest3722A]

If I were a cop and knew (based on friends having been killed by a perp AFTER being shot already) the reality of these types of situations...I'd probably be inclined to just keep pulling the trigger till I was empty.

Spray and pray is one of the things they try to train officers to avoid as this is the best way to empty your ammo. There are too many stories out there of officers who have lost their lives due to not aiming. The officer that went point blank with the perp was the true hero here but was shot in the hand and lost parts of his fingers and was also shot in the back. The perp, by the way, "later died while being taken to an area hospital". hmmmm

Graphic video released in Detroit precinct attack - KansasCity.com (news release giving details)

What I find hard to understand is in the most dangerous city in the state, why wouldn't they have the officers protected behind bullet proof glass as they do in other cities?

I really should be desensitized to this stuff by now seeing as I've been here most of my life but truth be told, I'm not. I'm hoping the new Mayor, former Piston basketball star Dave Bing, is going to make a difference. But, I think this area is too far gone.

I'd really like for someone to figure out a way for positive growth and cleaning in Detroit though.

 

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[Davidla]

Makes you think of all of those news stories where many assumed the cops were OBVIOUSLY out of line when they pulled the trigger on a potential bad guy more than once.

If I were a cop and knew (based on friends having been killed by a perp AFTER being shot already) the reality of these types of situations...I'd probably be inclined to just keep pulling the trigger till I was empty.

I would not be surprised if they cut the video just before the next man who could stand up and hold gun came in and made sure the shooter is dead with a few more shots, preferably in the head.
It is the logical thing to do.

 

[Davidla]

What I find hard to understand is in the most dangerous city in the state, why wouldn't they have the officers protected behind bullet proof glass as they do in other cities?

I really should be desensitized to this stuff by now seeing as I've been here most of my life but truth be told, I'm not. I'm hoping the new Mayor, former Piston basketball star Dave Bing, is going to make a difference. But, I think this area is too far gone.

I'd really like for someone to figure out a way for positive growth and cleaning in Detroit though.

Topherea - I agree with you completly.
The cops should recieve much better protection in the forms of armed guards at the entrance, bullet proof shields etc. And I am sure they will.

But on a pesimistic note, this nothing compared to the potential of the "bad guys".
The shooter you saw here is a dumb person, with no training who saw too much TV.
No one with an IQ higher than 70 would do the jump he has done over the counter with a shotgun (which got him killed btw).
He could have gotten much better results using a hand gun/granade/a bomb and then run away.

He practically commited suicide in this footage.

I think that once the awareness level rises to the threats and potential dangers, corresponding measures will be taken. This video is an important part of that.

 

[Guest3722A]

The cops should recieve much better protection in the forms of armed guards at the entrance, bullet proof shields etc. And I am sure they will.

It would be nice to see at the least the bullet-proof glass, but unfortunately, money designated for things like this has a strange way of disappearing within different govt agencies here. The city has been on this multi-year mission recently to hire 4000 new officers because of the massive shortage of cops the city has but have only been doing so at a rate of maybe 50 a year hmmmm... It's really bad.

The shooter you saw here is a dumb person, with no training who saw too much TV.
No one with an IQ higher than 70 would do the jump he has done over the counter with a shotgun (which got him killed btw).
He could have gotten much better results using a hand gun/granade/a bomb and then run away.

He practically commited suicide in this footage.

Those are good points and I understand where you're coming from as the majority of Detroit citizens that are surprisingly similar to the way this guy acts and reacts have been let down by the Detroit school system. I don't know if this guy went through the system but it is a system of where the student's parents openly threaten teachers with violence and get away with it. I've spoken with teachers in the system.

As far as a handgun better than a shotgun, I'd have to disagree there. One shell of buckshot has 8-9 .32 caliber sized pellets of metal that spreads out as it's fired. - In like a dime, out like a cash register. A handgun is not an easy thing to consistently aim, especially at distances greater than 7 yards. In general, handgun barrels are around 4-6" for combat type pieces and very tough to use within the time restrainst of a lethal encounter and when the adrenaline is at a high level, which I can guarantee that every person in that room experienced at that moment. A grenade or other explosive, yes, would've done much damage. Access to handguns and explosives isn't as easy as access to long guns.

Suicide by cop... maybe. This guy was in the papers for a bit around here for kidnapping and molesting a 13 yr old and chaining her to a toilet. Apparently his house went up in flames a couple days after the shootout.

It's my opinion that Detroit is at this level because the officials trusted with money can't be trusted, and agencies such as the pd suffer because of it. It's a vicious circle because votes from the uneducated citizens are easy to sway.

 

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[JayKim]

glad none of the officers were killed. Looks like he was on something how he kept walking around after he was shot. Scary what kinds of sick individuals are out there.

Hard to tell but at the end the officer shooting at point blank range got his hand shot and dropped the gun and threw the garbage can as a last resort.

[video=youtube;MuuEGuJA7kM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MuuEGuJA7kM&feature=related[/video]

 

[Guest3722A]

Thanks for that video with the summary. That stuff for some reason really catches my interest.

As crazy as this sounds I actually applied to be a Detroit cop after I lost my business and passed the test and right before my interview I ruptured my left achilles from over-training which basically kept me bed ridden for nearly a year. Even after seeing this and other things similar I'd still do it if it was all I thought I had but I wonder sometimes if my path was changed because I ended up here at the fastlane via a trail of breadcrumbs and feel that i'm on to something unique.

Anyway, I hope I'm not wrong!

I can reapply however because the rules were that I couldn't for a year after my first application.

 

[Guest3722A]

Now some jackass is shooting at cars on the freeway...

Police: Cars Hit By Gunfire On I-696 - Detroit Local News Story - WDIV Detroit

...so you say you wanna visit Detroit eh?

 

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[michael]

Detroit is the armpit of the nation and I'd really like to know how on earth can people like this be stopped?

Well first you've got to pinpoint the causes that make the populace of Detroit far more likely to be involved in such crime than those in other cities:

1. For the most part due to a lack of opportunity thanks to decades of union action and corrupt governance driving out jobs and opportunity in the city.

2. For a significant part due to the failed war on drugs which despite similar rates of drug use across racial lines undoubtedly jails more black people far more than other races this further destroying opportunity. Beyond unequal outcomes of this failed policy the enforcers of this policy are engaged in a futile task, as Einstein said "nothing is more destructive of respect for the government and the law of the land than passing laws which cannot be enforced."


When you have a population which has little in term of opportunities and who's lives are touched by an unenforceable policy that destroys respect for the law and police it is easy to understand why this kind of thing happens.

I am not excusing this guy for shooting up the station but it is not really too hard to understand why such violence is so prevalent in the motor city.

Topherea - I agree with you completly.
The cops should recieve much better protection in the forms of armed guards at the entrance, bullet proof shields etc. And I am sure they will.

But on a pesimistic note, this nothing compared to the potential of the "bad guys".
The shooter you saw here is a dumb person, with no training who saw too much TV.
No one with an IQ higher than 70 would do the jump he has done over the counter with a shotgun (which got him killed btw).
He could have gotten much better results using a hand gun/granade/a bomb and then run away.

He practically commited suicide in this footage.

I think that once the awareness level rises to the threats and potential dangers, corresponding measures will be taken. This video is an important part of that.

I don't think police should live in fortified compounds with armed guards and bullet proof windows when the rest of the city is living amongst the filth the police would be hiding from under this scenario. I think it is better to address the factors that make Detroit such a crime ridden and derelict state rather than spending money trying to hide from the situation.

 

[Guest3722A]

The destruction and overall lack of concern for anything in that city is pretty well widespread amongst all derelicts there regardless of race. Drug use? You'd be surprised who uses and who doesn't. Illegal drug sales? Same. Laziness and getting someone to show up on time consistently? For many, it's more profitable and easier to "do other (illegal) things" on the "doer's" time. Everyone has a hustle and MAYBE a job.

Well documented government corruption and countless $millions that can't be accounted for, and, investigative bodies that are on the payroll... it's a circle. School officials brought in to clean things up and end up on trial themselves... I could go on for a while here! A congresswoman... a mayor... city council members... police chiefs. How about a sheriff who went to prison for rape and there were widespread speculations of other corrupt activities? And get this- his brother got voted in to take his place!

What I really like now are the white biker gangs who plant their club houses in the most dangerous parts of the city. How's that for a statement?

Bullet proof glass- it's commonplace out here in banks, pawnshops, sheriff dept's, jails and some police departments, and for good reason. A metal detector that works and not just for show...hmmm there's a concept.



Here's an old video favorite of mine that made it's way to the Wall Street Journal:

How Do You Put the Dump Into Dump Truck? Push It Off the Fourth Floor - WSJ.com

I would have to say it reminds me of the movie A Clockwork Orange and at this rate the area is soon to be at the level of Mad Max. I can't tell though if that's Comerica Park or Tiger Stadium in the background in the video.



I do agree with you though Michael, that the opportunities in the city are low (automotive related, commissioned sales, casino, service, law enforcement), but now the population of the city is dwindling as many have now moved north into the suburbs due to the real estate collapse, and the easing of entry. And, many of these folks who were credible and able to get into such neighborhoods have couches their homeless cousins/(?) can sleep on, and wouldn't you know it, the spray paint is starting to show up. ...and drug use/sales most definitely. What's interesting now is with the recent passing of legalizing marijuana use for "medical reasons", dispensaries and grow aids are starting to show up on all street corners now. What i really like is in the news last year one of them had a freakin alligator as a watch guard! It's crazy.

Drugs- check. Laziness- check. Zero accountability- check. Government corruption- check. Solutions- check. Successful ongoing implementation- ____.

 

[Guest3722A]

Just out today! I love it!! Govt costs more in Detroit than other cities!!

Study: Gov't costs more in Detroit than other cities | detnews.com | The Detroit News

This is my last thought for this negative thread that I wanted to share to hopefully hit my point home. I'm done with posting about this stuff though as there are real things to discuss and learn in the forums here.

My plan, for those who may have been questioning, is to get out of this state as soon as I am able. West coast of Florida is on my radar, at the moment. I'm thinkin' within maybe 18-24 months.

 

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[roc]

Suicide by cop for sure, one sick bastard who is off the streets!

 

[Wimtbimtb]

I have been to most of the major areas of the Country. Central LA, Compton Ca, etc,etc NYC. Have yet to find anything that can beat Detroit. Running down Van Dyke with most of the buildings burned out . Driving down 8 mile getting shot at ,Cant beat that gets you're juices flowing let me tell ya, LOL Detroit does have some great areas and unlike those other areas of the Country . I have found most people seem to be very nice and friendly here in the D-town.. I'm PROUD to say I'm from the Motor City.

 

[Lights]

I love Detroit. I went homeless in Detroit. Lack of jobs just mean struggling people, which makes them do criminalistic things. That's the logic.

I wouldn't mind living in Detroit, as far as Michigan goes, these other cities are boring.

 

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