The Gas Pump thread

[BusinessNoob]

@BusinessNoob feel like I'm just raining on your parade here haha

But gasoline is a highly regulated industry...lot's of rules, laws, and regulations from municipal, county, state, and federal entities...plus entities that have massive control like credit card companies, beer brands, tobacco brands, soda brands, insurance companies, petroleum companies, ethanol companies, various associations, equipment companies, etc.

It's an out-dated slow moving industry that hasn't kept up with the times for sure...but that's because the barrier to entry is huge.

I agree, the barrier of entry is huge, but so would be the rewards. I mean, how many gas pumps are there in the US?

 

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[BusinessNoob]

Perhaps I'm wrong, but this is what I see happening in this thread

OP says "I have a solution to what I think is a problem"
The Market (aka everyone on this forum) says "I don't want your solution"
OP says "I'm moving forward anyway because I'm a go-getter"

Feel free to correct me, but isn't this how most people lose a lot of money and time. Isn't this opening a coffee shop across the street from a starbucks?

Also, another business model could morph from this discussion. It's better to try than not to.

 

[Royce2]

I agree, the barrier of entry is huge, but so would be the rewards. I mean, how many gas pumps are there in the US?

I think they should bring back touch screen menus for gas stations
For example if there’s a McDonald’s franchise attached to the minimart, have the person order a Big Mac while they’re waiting on their car and earn pump points while doing so if they order from the pumps.
Would go like this
1. Customer fuels up gas
2. There’s a submenu or semi-intrusive menu for McDonald’s ordering
3. Customer orders McDonald’s and the pump machine would use same card to bill the order
4. Receipt is printed for order and gas
5. Customer chooses where to pick up. Inside or drive through only
6. simply parks in parking spot not to block cars or goes to drive through with receipt
7. Picks up food without waiting to order

I think McDonald’s would have to be the one pushing that idea.

Pros.
1.Efficient way of promoting both services, every order you make at pump gives you credits/points
2.not everyone might have McDonald’s app installed on phone

Cons.
1.The screens have been done before but payment processing at pump for food has not.
2.Ppl still might leave car at gas pump if the tank isn’t done filling up but they already ordered
3. They can just order from the McDonald’s app and do the exact same offering no incentive to order from gas pump

Or make it a classic drive in diner with intercom but with gas pumps and servers on skates, because since the only way most gas stations make money is from snacks, why not it be a restaurant that has a gas station and people will spend more

 

[BusinessNoob]

I think this business would be good for the economy of the US. It would create lots of Jobs. Jobs that might help some people get off government assistance. If it benefits the country, it might not be as tough to maneuver through the regulation red tape. Our current president would be a fan I believe.

Who or What entities would it hurt?

 

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[BusinessNoob]

I think they should bring back touch screen menus for gas stations
For example if there’s a McDonald’s franchise attached to the minimart, have the person order a Big Mac while they’re waiting on their car and earn pump points while doing so if they order from the pumps.
Would go like this
1. Customer fuels up gas
2. There’s a submenu or semi-intrusive menu for McDonald’s ordering
3. Customer orders McDonald’s and the pump machine would use same card to bill the order
4. Receipt is printed for order and gas
5. Customer chooses where to pick up. Inside or drive through only
6. simply parks in parking spot not to block cars or goes to drive through with receipt
7. Picks up food without waiting to order

I think McDonald’s would have to be the one pushing that idea.

Pros.
1.Efficient way of promoting both services, every order you make at pump gives you credits/points
2.not everyone might have McDonald’s app installed on phone

Cons.
1.The screens have been done before but payment processing at pump for food has not.
2.Ppl still might leave car at gas pump if the tank isn’t done filling up but they already ordered
3. They can just order from the McDonald’s app and do the exact same offering no incentive to order from gas pump

Or make it a classic drive in diner with intercom but with gas pumps and servers on skates, because since the only way most gas stations make money is from snacks, why not it be a restaurant that has a gas station and people will spend more

Sounds like a decent idea, the customer would not need the app if they ordered from the pump. I think i have seen this done somewhere before, not sure. It's hard to imagine crossing a Sonic with a gas station but.... who knows?

 

[Royce2]

It's hard to imagine crossing a Sonic with a gas station but.... who knows?

If I am correct at saying Disney and McDonald’s are all about burning messages into your brain then I would assume they will want to be in every sector. I see going into gas stations for them as a no brainer. Call it McGas and McDiesel
Regular deluxe and supreme. I think I need to catch up on some sleep I’m getting worried for where my ideas are going lol.

 

[csalvato]

Perhaps I'm wrong, but this is what I see happening in this thread

OP says "I have a solution to what I think is a problem"
The Market (aka everyone on this forum) says "I don't want your solution"
OP says "I'm moving forward anyway because I'm a go-getter"

Feel free to correct me, but isn't this how most people lose a lot of money and time. Isn't this opening a coffee shop across the street from a starbucks?

No, that's not how it works.

The market are people who are actually in a position to use/pay for the thing you put out there. This is, at best, a cross section of a very small segment of the market.

Many, if not all, products are faced with this kind of critique when just starting. Look at AirBNB for example. It was crazy to think you would rent a room in someone else's house. There were a million reasons why everyone said it couldn't and shouldn't work. But it did. The founders knew something the rest of the world didn't.

Only the OP knows if he knows something the rest of the world doesn't.

 

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[MidwestLandlord]

If I am correct at saying Disney and McDonald’s are all about burning messages into your brain then I would assume they will want to be in every sector. I see going into gas stations for them as a no brainer. Call it McGas and McDiesel
Regular deluxe and supreme. I think I need to catch up on some sleep I’m getting worried for where my ideas are going lol.

I'm back with more rain for the parade.

Gasoline product names are dictated by federal guidelines in 40 CFR part 80.

So your name suggestions (I realize it was a joke haha) would actually be illegal and considered misleading to the poor innocent consumer.

Did I mention gasoline is highly regulated?

 

[Royce2]

So your name suggestions (I realize it was a joke haha) would actually be illegal and considered misleading to the poor innocent consumer.

I love this response so much. It’s perfectly knowledgeable, backed by facts, and very concise. But I’m all seriousness do you think McDonalds would ever buy a gas station and just use that to sell and promote their fast food, yet alone gas? I see people adopting the trust for McDonald’s as being cost effective and reasonably priced making them more susceptible to impulsively always opt for McDonald’s gas stations because they have fast food. Take me for a real life example. There’s a shell gas station that has an amazing authentic local Mexican fast food restaurant inside it. And 2 miles away there’s a pilot with a McDonald’s across the street from the gas station. I always.... ALWAYS opt for the pilot BECAUSE of McDonalds.

 

[Real Deal Denver]

I'm back with more rain for the parade.

Gasoline product names are dictated by federal guidelines in 40 CFR part 80.

So your name suggestions (I realize it was a joke haha) would actually be illegal and considered misleading to the poor innocent consumer.

Did I mention gasoline is highly regulated?

Not to derail this thread, but I have had a burning question about gas stations for as long as I can remember.

How do gas stations get the prime spots on the best corners?

And because of the space needed for the pumps, and the parking, these lots are huge!

I always thought they were a very low profit business. I mean, they kick McDonalds in the butt. Often times they have a promotion of a hot dog and a coke for 99 cents if you buy gas. For 79 cents I get some monster 128 ounce super slurpy! For two bucks, it's a bratwurst, chips, and a coke. That's about half price of McDonalds.

How do gas stations do it? I want their prime spots! They are wasted. They would be ideal for a drive through burger joint. Even McDonalds spots are not nearly as good as the gas stations!

We now return you to our regularly scheduled program ~

 

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[Real Deal Denver]

@MidwestLandlord - and speaking of not touching someone's credit card... I usually pay for everything with a credit card.

That has me remembering me handing MY card to the drive through cashier at Taco Bell and Wendy's EVERY TIME I get food. Then they close their little window on me for 30 seconds. Who knows what else they're doing? Buying Victoria Secret little undergarments? They're breaking federal regulations what - 30,000 times a month?

Shut em down Danko!

 

[Legend]

With all due respect, This "business model" is in the infantile stages, far from any money being invested. I think it intelligent to give the idea a chance to bloom. This attitude, IMO, is why so few people are able to drive the fastlane. Everything is too hard, so I quit before even spending a penny...

Also, another business model could morph from this discussion. It's better to try than not to.

Totally agree with you here. Didn't mean to sound too negative. I'm constantly fighting this battle with my wife when discussing ideas (I'm telling her why it would work, and she's telling me why it wouldn't). Still trying to get my mindset right.

 

[csalvato]

Totally agree with you here. Didn't mean to sound too negative. I'm constantly fighting this battle with my wife when discussing ideas (I'm telling her why it would work, and she's telling me why it wouldn't). Still trying to get my mindset right.

It's all good.

Just because someone is telling you a bad idea doesn't mean it's a bad idea. But, also, someone who is telling you a bad idea may actually be right. But then again, best ideas often seem laughable to most people at first glance.

So, how do you know?

Judgement.

And that comes with a lot of battle scars and experience. That's why anyone with any level of experience says to go and take action rather than thinking or reading too much - because that's where you learn the things that can't be taught.

Statistically speaking, you're likely to be wrong....horribly wrong...multiple times before you get a sense for it. And even really experienced entrepreneurs and investors can be lulled into bad moves.

Here's a really good podcast episode outlining how to evaluate the negative feedback, and how it can sometimes indicate that you're on the RIGHT path: Tristan Walker – Masters of Scale

 

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[MidwestLandlord]

@MidwestLandlord - and speaking of not touching someone's credit card... I usually pay for everything with a credit card.

That has me remembering me handing MY card to the drive through cashier at Taco Bell and Wendy's EVERY TIME I get food. Then they close their little window on me for 30 seconds. Who knows what else they're doing? Buying Victoria Secret little undergarments? They're breaking federal regulations what - 30,000 times a month?

Shut em down Danko!

They're breaking interchange rules, not federal law.

However, the way interchange agreements are written (depending on the merchant category code) is that you must follow PCI-DSS standards for fraud protection, which includes never handling the customer card.

When fraud happens the first thing the interchange investigators do is check the PCI-DSS compliance for all parties involved. Issuing bank, receiving bank, processor, merchant.

If they can't pinpoint exactly where the fraud occurred (which is usually the case) then whichever link in the chain has the weakest security is held accountable. In a lawsuit, the courts will use this investigative determination to name responsible parties as well.

Interchange agreements also state that they can be audited (petroleum merchant category code is audited every 3 months) and if found out of compliance they can be fined, have credit card processing suspended, or even be permanently banned from ever using the interchange.

So yeah, big risk.

Processors like Square have to meet these requirements as well, but the end user just never sees it. All they see is software updates.

It's possible the fast-food merchant category code allows them to handle the cards as PCI-DSS rules change regularly. (Full service food for instance still allows it, it's just recommended they don't)

Not sure if that's helpful to this thread or not haha

 

[minivanman]

Not to derail this thread, but I have had a burning question about gas stations for as long as I can remember.

How do gas stations get the prime spots on the best corners?

And because of the space needed for the pumps, and the parking, these lots are huge!

I always thought they were a very low profit business. I mean, they kick McDonalds in the butt. Often times they have a promotion of a hot dog and a coke for 99 cents if you buy gas. For 79 cents I get some monster 128 ounce super slurpy! For two bucks, it's a bratwurst, chips, and a coke. That's about half price of McDonalds.

How do gas stations do it? I want their prime spots! They are wasted. They would be ideal for a drive through burger joint. Even McDonalds spots are not nearly as good as the gas stations!

We now return you to our regularly scheduled program ~

You better come check out our gas stations in Texas

 

[LuckyPup]

Women, Elderly, bad weather, lazy people, gas smell, germaphobes,.... Just because you wouldn't use the service doesn't mean others wouldn't.

Way back in the day most gas stations were full service. Now nearly none are. There's a reason for that.

 

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[minivanman]

So here is my report after traveling from Fort Worth, Texas to Destin, Florida then down the west coast of Florida then over to South Beach Miami then up the west coast of Florida to Daytona and St. Augustine then back to Fort Worth.

First of all..... for everyone that lives near Pensacola, Florida GET READY!!!! You will be getting a Buccee's in 2019! You finally get to see a real gas station! They also pay well for those people that choose to work.

I noticed 2 other things on the trip..... those blow dryers were in almost every restroom I went in (I drink a lot of Dr. Peppers and stop A LOT!!). I stop about once an hour and as I remember, all but 3 or 4 were blow dryers.

The other thing I noticed that I had never really paid attention to before (reading this thread before the trip made me pay attention) is that Texas gas stations are so much bigger and better! There were like 2 along the way that even compared. Don't they realize they are missing out on so much profit? The days of selling gas, 5 different types of candy & chips and a few different types of drinks are long over! Not to mention, I forgot how much it sucks to have to wait in line for a gas pump!

 

[Rabby]

Relieved that I'm not the only one who remembers full service stations in the US. Had a scare there.

You might also consider "why" people don't want to pump their own gas. For some people, it is paranoia about touching the pump handle that could, in their minds, be covered in anything from influenza to eczema flakes to spilled gas.

If that's the market, homeless guys are "out," because they are also covered in undesired things. But pump-side dispensers of little paper gloves (or something) might be "in" because they insulate the hand from the pump.

For that special ironic feeling, I suggest hiring the homeless guys to make the paper gloves.

Moving on, if the "why" is that it is cold and people do not want to open the car (not a problem where I spend most of my time), you might find a solution specific to that. An easy to slip on windbreaker that clips to the door? I dunno, ask a cold weather person, but the point is, you might come up with something by examining the problem in more detail.

 

[Rabby]

Gas smell -- push-in carbon filter nose plugs! 3 fashionable colors. Manufactured by homeless guys who just need a second chance, of course.

 

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[minivanman]

That plastic glove & mask dispenser is a good one and for more reasons than just the gas pump.

By the way, the other day I heard the pepper shaker has the most germs of anything in a restaurant

 

[csalvato]

Relieved that I'm not the only one who remembers full service stations in the US. Had a scare there.

You might also consider "why" people don't want to pump their own gas. For some people, it is paranoia about touching the pump handle that could, in their minds, be covered in anything from influenza to eczema flakes to spilled gas.

If that's the market, homeless guys are "out," because they are also covered in undesired things. But pump-side dispensers of little paper gloves (or something) might be "in" because they insulate the hand from the pump.

For that special ironic feeling, I suggest hiring the homeless guys to make the paper gloves.

Moving on, if the "why" is that it is cold and people do not want to open the car (not a problem where I spend most of my time), you might find a solution specific to that. An easy to slip on windbreaker that clips to the door? I dunno, ask a cold weather person, but the point is, you might come up with something by examining the problem in more detail.

Sounds a lot like JTBD: What is Jobs to be Done (JTBD)? – Jobs to be Done

 

[Rabby]

Sounds a lot like JTBD: What is Jobs to be Done (JTBD)? – Jobs to be Done

Oh wow. I like the illustrations and writing style. I'll have to check that out.

 

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[csalvato]

Oh wow. I like the illustrations and writing style. I'll have to check that out.

Here's another one by the originator of the concept (who also wrote Innovator's Dilemma): Know Your Customers’ “Jobs to Be Done”